Bryce Lawrence will not referee on South African shores.

First topic message reminder :

This courtesy of Sport 24.

Lawrence’s control of the October 9 quarter-final, won 11-9 by Australia to end South Africa’ reign as world champion, was strongly criticised by Springboks players, coaching staff and fans.

Retiring Springboks captain John Smit said “the one positive (of retirement) is that I won’t ever have to be reffed by him again” and a South African fan began a Facebook campaign entitled “Petition To Stop Bryce Lawrence Ever Reffing A Rugby Game Again.”

“I’m not totally concerned,” Lawrence told Radio Sport. “I know a lot of other people like the New Zealand Rugby Union and SANZAR do have some serious concerns.

“In all honesty I’m not going to go over there if there’s any personal threat or I have concerns about my safety because in the end it’s a job, I know that, and also it’s just a sport so I’m not going to put myself at risk.”

Lawrence said he had thought about his performance in the quarter-final every day since the match and accepts he made errors.

“My quarter-final performance created a lot of negative reaction in South Africa, pretty hostile, very personal, very harsh,” he said. “Also, on the flipside of that, I got a lot of really strong positive support from rugby people in New Zealand and around the world who probably know me a little bit more than the people in South Africa and were feeling for me during that time.

“… I was disappointed with some aspects in my own performance that day after refereeing four really pretty strong games in pool play. I’m not blaming anyone for the quarterfinal refereeing display apart from myself. I didn’t referee as well as I could.”

Lawrence said he recognised he would be punished for his performance.

“Look there has been some pretty clear consequences from my quarter-final display,” he said. “I’m not going to be refereeing Six Nations next year.

“They can say that means I’m rested but in reality I accept that one of the consequences of my performance is that I’m not going to be doing Six Nations.”

A dark alley in a city with no witnesses comes to mind.

EnglishReign wrote:At the time that Cueto "try" would've put England in the lead and dare I say it, the ascendency too. And it was a final, not a measly quarters!

You still beleive that was a try?

Disney,

07 final wasn't the refs fault. He passed the decision over to the TMO and he adjugded it to be in touch.

It is fair to say if that try had been awarded, and I think it was 50/50 at best, it may have changed the dynamic of the game. But we will never know. SA in the end ran out rightful winners.

But it is also fair to say that had England been playing better in the first place we wouldn't have needed to rely on a 50/50 decision.

It clealry wasnt a try.

Like Warburton he was unfortunate to come across a competant official, but the decision was correct and reached in teh correct manner despite technical difficulties.

Metal Tiger wrote:Glad to see your all still complaining, crying, moaning and whinging that it was the refs fault you didn't win.

At least we England fans can hold our heads high and say proudly 'We lost because we were sh1t.'

That is one of the funniest things I have seen all morning. Good stuff.
Proud, eh? Accurate, though!
Not too bad. Not too bad at all.

MT I didn't imply it was the ref's fault. I thought he, and the TMO, were correct.

Englishreign our measly QF result had but one call gone NZ's way in the 2nd half, would have meant that England would face their WC nemesis in the semi. I and most neutrals would pick NZ to have won relatively comfortably. Having said that the final would have been a thriller and I wouldn't have put any money on us to beat SA then. Despite having an easier draw they put away whoever was in front of them and dealt with whatever frights came their way.

biltongbek wrote:No he is not, but he had a hell of a lot to do with it, the australian try came from 3 infringements by the same player.

He ruled two forward passes which taking momentum into account just added up to the way decisions went against us the whole day, and then allowing our bal to be slowed down to australia's benefit to organise defences.

My goodness but it is that hard to acknowledge what went on there.

This has nothing to do with chris White, this has to do with our quarter final match in 2011.

Biltong the forward passes were not momentum, they were passed forward. As soon as it left the hands I said forward, at least the jdv one, cant actually recall the other at the moment. In the replay it looked forward. And had that pass been flat it would have gone behind the player and SA would have lost the forward momentum to the tryline even if it was taken- same as the french try in 07, but on that occasion, not ruled.

Its been acknowledged that Lawrence had a poor game, by the man himself, and by most.

But so did SA, they didnt do the job they were supposed to, win the game. Same with ABs in 2007.

So when a post comes up, particularly when its about so called threats to a Kiwi particularly when hes trying to justify his position in a game where the same SA fans, unbelievably and inconceivably repetitively forgive far more worse crimes against SA rugby by mssrs Smit, pdv, Steyn and a few more that, like Lawrence probably shouldnt be on the field far before now, I think the post needs some balancing, some context.

When Wales and Samoa ran SA close there was this 'SA were never going to lose that match' thing (1 and 8 point wins). After a let off, they play a half amateur team and a failing Fiji and suddenly their "gaining momentum" (I mean what team wouldnt?)

Then Samoa its another 'game we were never going to lose' despite Samoa having every chance to win it. Then a loss to Oz in a similarly tight game and all hell breaks lose and suddenly reasons for a loss are needed when they werent for close wins.

Its not too hard to admit Lawrence had a bad game- he has, we have, you have, in fact no one on the planet that I've seen has said he had a good game- at least you get that- Barnes have never admitted he did anything wrong. And I dont mind Lawrence being mentioned but the anger and hatred towards him, not balanced by the level of hatred towards those more responsible for SA's demise is just as annoying.

Anyway, not meaning to have a go but seems no ones lifting a finger to support the bloke so thats my 20cents worth. Hopefully the subject will go away and we can all move together in beautiful harmony...

The guy I feel sorry for out of all this .is the other Kiwi guy who lives down south and unfortunately,also has the name Bryce Lawrence, he got his name and phone number splatterd across some South African websites and got drunk South Africans ringing him up in the early hours abusing the S H I T out of him.

Taylorman wrote:Anyway, not meaning to have a go but seems no ones lifting a finger to support the bloke so thats my 20cents worth. Hopefully the subject will go away and we can all move together in beautiful harmony...

I agree TM. At least BL has admitted he had a poor game and to be honest all he did was let the breakdown be a free for all - it wasn't like he was biased one way or another, and the Saffers simply failed to adapt/take advantage of that; although it didn't help losing Brüssow so early on. BL's display was no where near as bad as Wayne Barnes' in 2007 where Barnes did not award one penalty to the AB's in the 2nd half - SA had penalties awarded to them and failed to convert their opportunities.

I also find it interesting the difference in approach taken by the players/coaches/administration of the two countries - NZ players/coaches/admin maintained a cone of silence on Barnes and Henry went straight to the French dressing room and congratulated the French after their win. SA on the other hand have moaned non-stop and have just come across as whingers and poor losers - I've lost all respect for John Smit after what he has said.

Also, Biltong, although I respect the posts you make and your very reasoned articles on most things rugby, you are starting to sound incredibly bitter and no better than the worst of the AB's fans after 2007. I recall a post a few days after SA's exit in the QF where you said that you were over it and had moved one - not sure you are fella and for your own sanity I suggest some counselling might be in order.

The reactions say more about the culture of the sides when it comes to Rugby. The Abs have very high standards in some areas that others just dont understand (or readily admit) and that's credit to McCaw, Henry and co. in terms of diplomacy and how to front the media- whats worth a fight and whats not.

McCaw was ranting at Barnes throughout the second half only to get ignored completely as well but he didnt go on about it after the game either- he always downplays things done against him, or the team.

Smit and particularly pdv rant and rave at the first opportunity though I think Smit is also having to deal with his own demons as a player and is really speaking out of sheer frustration for the team. He just shows signs of being there too long as a player. PDV clearly has a reckless regard for the media and there is clearly no protocol or standards in this regard from things SA- its just 'open book' and anything goes.

Henry has goes at refs sometimes but he does it in a way that is inclusive and invites debate on the matter- not the 'he did this to us' kind of rants.

Its accepted that the ABs are able to preach from a more 'stable platform' of being able to win most of their matches but this is also because of the standards they set. We still have our moments- Guilford recently not attuned to the AB way recently. He'll be reigned in after the fuss dies down and will come out stronger for it.

Yeah, the New Zealanders are so classy. Talking about respect, I am starting to lose a lot of respect for New Zealanders and their high and mighty attitude since this world cup.

Butter wouldn't melt in their mouths.

Just one last thing, explain to me the fact that there is no percieved bias from a referee who already prematch have made his decisions as to how he will communicate to the Springbok captain and vice captain and worst of all shown his cards to John and Victor.

Otagolad, you may have lost respect for John Smit over commenting he doesn't have to be refereed by Lawrence again, WOW..

Biltong

give it a rest fella, there is no room for the rest of us...you'll still be banging on about this in 2015, you are starting to sound like the Kiwis banging on about Barnes.

Anyway, Rolland is the real w@nker

Morning gatts, mate I didn't start this, I reported that Bryce didn't feel comfortable officiating in SA.

The rest was in response to comments and then it snowballed.

If everyone else keep their comments in their pants and stick to the topic at hand, I will give it a rest.

Cmon biltong you put the post up and made one comment- get him in a dark alley with no witnesses.
Its unlike you to be so vindictive and sore. Did you read the article objectively? Lawrence was being as honest and frank as one possibly could be in his position other than grant the seemingly popular wish that he top himself or something like that.
You mention going off the topic when the very essence of the topic is this;
Kiwi ref lawrence lost SA the world cup and in so doing shouldnt show his face in a rugby match in SA where, despite admitting his shortcomings and performance in the quarter final, and the support of his country folk, may find himself dead in an alley in some jburg backstreet.
Correct me if Im wrong but thats the way i read it and the comments seem to provide some balance on an otherwise very one sided post.
Kiwis know what SA are going through but throwing missiles at the ref wont get you anywhere.
Perhaps kiwis have been a little arrogant. We arent used to winning these lately and just as arrogant as we are, perhaps SA are being just as over spiteful as they perhaps need to be as well.

He had and absolute shocker in the match. He has admitted it and accepted that he is basically being punished. That doesent take the pain away from the SA fan though. I personally feel that SA was the only team capable of beating the AB's in the RWC, would they have is another story but i feel they had the best chance.

The fact that a ref has now concerns about going to a country to ref because he has fears for safety is taking things way too far and is very sad for Rugby.

I am not sure if he got the same abuse as Nigel Owens recieved though.

For what its worth Biltong I think:

- Lawrence is an extremely mediocre referee
- He had a very very poor game in South Africa v Australia
- His refereeing cost South Africa the match

HOWEVER

- I think that he realises how poor he was in the match
- He has faced sanctions and won't get a 6 Nations game
- The fact that threats are keeping him from refereeing in South Africa is very sad
- The amount of abuse levied at top flight referees in the last 5 years is beginning to grow.

Stag thanks for that. I am sure the abuse will die down eventually. As far as threats, I wonder how many are actual threats and how many are just part and parcel of ranting.

As much as I dislike the man intensely, no referee apart from that guy that was tackled some years back, no official has ever been harmed in SA.

The thing is biltongbek, even ranting threats have to be taken seriously. There are some very extremem people out there and it would only take one extreme person to act on said rants. Its obviously been serious engough for him to not want to travel to SA so its a sad that it is happening.

"no referee apart from that guy that was tackled some years back,"

I always thought he was a brave bloke, drunk, stupid, a bit large but fedo brave.

To start trouble in front of the 2 hardest front rows in the world just about to pack down for a scrum was madness... and the kiwi prop that fell him with one hit just made it justice. How many beers must you have had to think of running onto a pitch with the 2 packs of forwards just about to scrum???

biltongbek wrote:Stag thanks for that. I am sure the abuse will die down eventually. As far as threats, I wonder how many are actual threats and how many are just part and parcel of ranting.

As much as I dislike the man intensely, no referee apart from that guy that was tackled some years back, no official has ever been harmed in SA.

I know there was one random bloke who happened to be called Bryce Lawrence living in Auckland who got dozens of threatening phone calls to his home. Apparently his wife who answered the phone was very alarmed but this fella found it quite funny to be confused with the ref

OzT, you defo have to be proper drunk to attempt that. Thats just sheer madness lol

OzT wrote:"no referee apart from that guy that was tackled some years back,"

I always thought he was a brave bloke, drunk, stupid, a bit large but fedo brave.

To start trouble in front of the 2 hardest front rows in the world just about to pack down for a scrum was madness... and the kiwi prop that fell him with one hit just made it justice. How many beers must you have had to think of running onto a pitch with the 2 packs of forwards just about to scrum???

That must have been brandy and coke, I don't think beer will make you that drunk and reckless at the same time.

He drank brandy until he had enough "dutch courage" to run onto the field. i would think he was most likely dared by his inebrihated mate.

I know a few years later, Tana Umaga responded to a decision David McHugh made with the comment "Y'know what, it's no wonder he hit you!"