Scott Johnson - is he right about Dan Biggar?

Scott Johnson, on the BBC, is criticising the Welsh for not loving Dan Biggar. He's saying the Welsh have a love affair with the Barry John type of flyhalf and Dan Biggar doesn't fit into that mould. Despite mentioning Neil Jenkins and Stephen Jones in the article he still maintains that Biggar will never play for Wales while that mentality is there, is he right? or, as I suspect, is he talking out of somewhere the sun definitely doesn't shine from?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15748274.stm

SJ is not even close... Biggar has an ego and ideas of grandure that is being inflated by the coaching setup. He's not as good as he think he is, mostly due to being thrown into the regular fly half position well before he was ready.

Now we're seeing a really good prospect in Mathew Morgan's progression being slowed down, which is a complete opposite of what was happening with Biggar, and how he was thrown into the fly half position when Hook needed time at 10.

It's a complete c*ck up what the coaching staff are doing, they are consistently inconsistent with player progression and player management, and they only have themselves to blame for Biggar.

SJ does have a point to a degree in the national obsession with the number 10 jersey. I suppose it's down to the high standards that were set by Barry John etc back in the 70's. It's difficult to take a step backwards, look at NZ during the WC when Dan Carter was ruled out. It was a national crisis! I felt sorry for the other players trying to fill the 10 gap because they were never going to emulate Dan Carter.

I disagree with his statement that Biggar will NEVER play for Wales again as Gatland will use him if he is on form. I just think that Priesland, Tovey, Hook are better players but that is just my opinion. I do think Biggar is playing well though this season.

Of course he is wrong.

From an outsider point of view hasn't he playing well for Ospreys this season?

He did have a shocking game against Fiji.

With Cap'n Hook and Priestland you have decent options at 10 for Wales.

He's right and he's wrong.

SJ is known for talking out his blo'hole but he is just doing what a lot of coaches do in trying to extoll the virtues of one of his favourites, maybe trying to influence selection to the national squad.

Whilst I can't say I really know that much about Dan B to really make an informed comment on him as a player, the few times I have watched him he was good but not great.

SJ is right about the obsession bit... purely from an English point of veiw, every 10 in our game is ajudged against JW's attributes from 'you know what' in 2003. And the search continues for the next JW. Which is pretty sad. Speaking from a Tiggers perspective we have Toby Flood who is quicker, more aggressive, a better game manager and the form English 10 but kept getting selected behind (or at fecking 12!!) behind JW.

The Kiwis are the same about Carter. If Slade had scored every try & every point in the whole of the AB campaign you'd still have hordes of NZ'ers shaking their heads and saying "he's not Dan."

I would imagine most countries are the same about their respective greats.

Biggar still has years left to get back into Welsh set up so I wouldn't worry to much.

He did, for a while seem to put his foot in it a few times but seems to have quietened down a bit of late and is doing his talking on the pitch.

When you look at who has been our two most successful 10s of reecent years its Jenkins and Jones neither are in the Barry or Benny mould so the obsession maybe dying down now

Morgan needs to play on the big HC stage before we can think of him in international terms.

exactly right bedfordwelsh, it seems strange he should mention Jinks and Wellies while he's berating the Welsh for loving 'flair' flyhalves.

He's improved this year and great if he can carry on that way and challenge for the national squad.

I've never been a big fan of him. Seems to be lacking in the natural instinct so plays a more predictable game than the likes of Priestland or Hook and often throws passes without reading the defence. The way he speaks to some players on the pitch is (or at least was) horrendous. If he was captain, experienced or one of the best players on the pitch then he may have some rights to talk like that but he's none of those at the moment. Teams need to have good personal relationships and he seems to rub some team members up the wrong way.

Turkster, just a word of advice: if you want more people to read and comment on your article, you might want to but Dan Biggar's name in the title.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Turkster, just a word of advice: if you want more people to read and comment on your article, you might want to but Dan Biggar's name in the title.

Done, Cheers!

I think Biggar lacks composure and shirks his defensive duties too much to be compared to any of the current contenders for the Welsh Ten Jersey.

This might mean that he would have had more caps if he was from another country that doesnt have the depth of talent that Wales has.

The guy is young, he hasnt done enough to prove that he should be selected, if he improves his weaknesses and concentrates hard on his game, as young Priestland has done, without any early caps, then maybe he will get his opportunities later on in his career.

Wales have a plethora of talented flyhalfs around Biggars age and he hasn't shown enough to stick his head out above the crowds.

Dan Biggar - 1989 (age 22) - 2007– Ospreys 28 (137) - Wales 8 (52)

Rhys Priestland - 1987 (age 24) - 2005- Scarlets 72 (495) - Wales 9 (39)

Jason Tovey - 1989 (age 22) - Dragons 71 (378) - 08–09 Wales U20 10 (39)

Stephen Shingler - 1991 (age 20) - 2009–11 - Llanelli 46 (331) - Scarlets 4 - London Irish 11 (21)

Steffan Jones - 1990 (age 20) - 2010 Dragons 9 (36)

Matthew Morgan - 1992 (age 19) - 2010- Ospreys 4 (42) - 2011 - Wales U20 4 64

Think your stats on Biggar are way off, the curse of wiki.

not wiki, club websites

Played 84 points 820

I like Biggar. He is the natural successor to ROG. His problem is he is not Irish. There is always room for a reliable kicker and if Priestland blows hot and cold from the tee as he has in the past there may well be room for Biggar in the squad. It is not a popularity contest. If it were he lost that long ago with one of his many displays of impetuousness.

Of course SJ is correct, Maesteg you mention all those players the only one ahead of him is RP, Tovey is about equal to Mathew Morgan as far as tackling ability is concerned, inept and afraid. Hook had nearly 2 seasons as the Ospreys OH he cost us very badly on a number of occasions especially Munster in HC Quarter Final, he is a very good Centre and will do well for Wales in that position for many years to come.
Personally, I hope he keeps on scoring and playing as he is for us and Wales DONT pick him.
People keep harking back to the Fiji game, what about his previous game to that against the All Blacks in the 2nd Test of that Tour when he was very good. The poor selection for that Fiji game IMO had a large effect on the whole Half back partnership on that day, when him and Richie Rees were disgustingly left out to dry especially by Rob Howley.

You think Wales is obsessed by flair players? even though Neil Jenkins and Stephen Jones have been in the 10 position for much of the last 15 years? Interesting I must say.

Turkster wrote:You think Wales is obsessed by flair players? even though Neil Jenkins and Stephen Jones have been in the 10 position for much of the last 15 years? Interesting I must say.

There has been controversy whether it should have been the steady eddie SJ or the flair of JH the last 3 or 4 years, and has there been more hype ever over the flair of MM against anyone of his age. When I say ever I'm talking about since the mid 1960s, don't get me wrong he is going to be good, but to consider him in DBs class is ridiculous at the moment

I never asked about Matthew Morgan though, I asked about the type of flyhalf Wales select, which is what the article on the BBC is about.

maestegmafia wrote:I think Biggar lacks composure and shirks his defensive duties too much to be compared to any of the current contenders for the Welsh Ten Jersey.

This might mean that he would have had more caps if he was from another country that doesnt have the depth of talent that Wales has.

The guy is young, he hasnt done enough to prove that he should be selected, if he improves his weaknesses and concentrates hard on his game, as young Priestland has done, without any early caps, then maybe he will get his opportunities later on in his career.

Wales have a plethora of talented flyhalfs around Biggars age and he hasn't shown enough to stick his head out above the crowds..

Maesteg
Its not just the amount of points they score, its how many they concede or contribute to conceding.

Really dont agree with your comments on his defensive qualities, he is streets ahead of Hook, Priestland, Tovey, and certainly Matthew Morgan, his place kicking %age is ahead of them as well and now he has cracked his out of hand kicking. Also he has done as much if not more as Priestland with MOM performances in many important games over the last 3 seasons, certainly enough to have warrented a WC slot as now can be see by the woeful kicking performances by the welsh 10s in certain games

IMHO Biggar for such a young man has shown tremendous character and played very well this season, he could easily have gone under after been crucified by so many quarters including various sections of the press. Biggar kicking is phenomenal at the moment, what confidence that must give to his fellow forwards and has yet another MOM performance last week which of course will be soon forgotten by a certain section of posters.

Its amazing that posters bang on about his petulance, I mean he has never pouted and stated to the press unless "I am picked at 10 for Wales / Ospreys I won't play", then go back on his stance and suggest he would play in any position, and he isn't perma-tanned, blinged up, he hasn't a celebrity girlfriend, he is only 22 now and yes maybe he has moaned at the ref on the pitch but hey if I was an Osprey I would much rather a player who gets his head down and trains hard to improve his strengths and eradicate his weaknesses. Biggar is an Os through and through and you should be proud to have him.

Cometh the hour cometh the man

Problem is, last season anyway, he plays like Dan Parks, kick is the 1st option, run the ball is 2nd. I'd love to be proved wrong by him, even though I can't stand him personally, hopefully the O's coaches will have been on his case and changed his perception of the game, although obviously, instincts will take longer. As for being better than Priestland......dream on!

I've never heard Scott Johnson open his mouth and talk any sense.

Biggar did not deserve to be in the WC squad and it's got nothing to do with an "obsession" with certain type of fly half. He's still young though and there's no reason why he can't play himself into contention. We need plenty of competition for the shirt.

FhF

I read your thoughts but that doesn't sway my thoughts on him.


If he can lead or inspire the ospreys over the next two months leading up to the six nations then I may reconsider. But I am not a fan at the moment. I certainly don't agree with many of you saying Biggar has a decent defensive game. He is around dan parks level in my mind.

Still as I said he is a young lad there is plenty of competition for places at the Os and for Wales.

Thats ok maesteg, its good to have difference of opinions and you always put in some decent rationale behind your views. But on par with our Desperate Dan....... No No No!!!, come on surely you must be jesting

I have to say tho (IMHO!!)...... last weekend Biggar looked every inch the controlling half back that will benefit and bring out the best of the exciting backs that Wales are producing

One thing I agree on is you have some great strength in depth in Wales and could you time-share some of them with us please.

Good call mate

flyhalffactory wrote:Thats ok maesteg, its good to have difference of opinions and you always put in some decent rationale behind your views. But on par with our Desperate Dan....... No No No!!!, come on surely you must be jesting

I have to say tho (IMHO!!)...... last weekend Biggar looked every inch the controlling half back that will benefit and bring out the best of the exciting backs that Wales are producing

One thing I agree on is you have some great strength in depth in Wales and could you time-share some of them with us please.

Good call mate

You scots need to shake off parks, get a canny inside center and you'll be flying...

Though Biggar has a lot to prove in Wales. He was given good breaks as a very young guy and he didn't deliver, Ospreys have had more patience than Gatland with him...

But I still firmly disagree with anyone who says the lad defends, he doesn't, and not only that numerous times at the liberty I have seen him fein tackles and accuse others of defensive misdemeanours after.

Tovey, Priesland, Morgan, Shingler and Jones all look a lot more composed and more skilful at moving a backline rather than just kicking out of hand.

Biggar has a lot to learn, he is lucky the Ospreys have so much faith in him...

flyhalffactory wrote:Thats ok maesteg, its good to have difference of opinions and you always put in some decent rationale behind your views. But on par with our Desperate Dan....... No No No!!!, come on surely you must be jesting

I have to say tho (IMHO!!)...... last weekend Biggar looked every inch the controlling half back that will benefit and bring out the best of the exciting backs that Wales are producing

One thing I agree on is you have some great strength in depth in Wales and could you time-share some of them with us please.

Good call mate

You scots need to shake off parks, get a canny inside center and you'll be flying... Jackson and Blair are good scots style tens

Though Biggar has a lot to prove in Wales. He was given good breaks as a very young guy and he didn't deliver, Ospreys have had more patience than Gatland with him...

But I still firmly disagree with anyone who says the lad defends, he doesn't, and not only that numerous times at the liberty I have seen him fein tackles and accuse others of defensive misdemeanours after.

Tovey, Priesland, Morgan, Shingler and Jones all look a lot more composed and more skilful at moving a backline rather than just kicking out of hand. Not just that, Priestland, Tovey and Morgan are much better game readers than Biggar and they have the skills he doesnt to back up what their instincts tell them to do.

Biggar has a lot to learn, he is lucky the Ospreys have so much faith in him...

johnson may be right that Biggar would be better in another country, but only because outside of Wales and NZ he would have a shed load less competition.

Yes and No

Biggar is talented, but he is prone to losing his head, tends to be a bit over confident and has a nasty habbit of shouting at fellow players and taking out his mistakes on others.

I seem to remember Biggar having a pop at George North because he got bundled into touch, but only because Biggar took all his outside space away when in support, so gave him no where to go!

Another example I can give is during the Ospreys V Russia warm up game Biggar missed a touchline kick, then picked up his kicking tee and threw it away from the coach Kevin Morgan, forcing him to walk after it and pick it up. Obviously Morgan wasn't happy at all.

Personally I like Biggar, I think he has potential. People think he is old because he was first capped in 2008, but in fact he has only just turned 22 in October, so is still a young player and still learning the game. I'm really not sure if he will have a career with Wales because Tovey is at the Dragons, Henson now at the Blues, we have Priestland with the Scarlets and Hook in France, so he has a lot of competition, but within a few years I expect all of Wales to see him as a quality player and will forget his youthful errors.

The problem is that people bang on about his "attitude" that its become almost fact when the reality is he only does his talking on the pitch ........whether good or bad. There are a few Ospreys (now former) who have made much more "in yer face" comments

Hooks..... "I only want to play 10 or nothing"
Henson..... "With my talent, just 2 Games and I'll be good enough to get the Wales side"

............... and yet they never seem to be "cockier" than DB, strange how some of the Welsh think.

Whilst alot of Wales fans seem to remember his "attitude" and poor games they can't even remember he steered the Ospreys to the ML title, or all the past MOM performances (many in very important games) or even as far back as last weeks MOM performance.

I think the below stats speak for themselves at 22 Biggar is the Os leading points scorer

Dan Biggar 820

James Hook 796

Gavin Henson 788

DB is a class act already better as an overall 10 than either JH or GH

Dan Biggar, the welsh ROG mark 1.

His kicking tends to be excellant, he usually has nerves of steel in pressure kicks, he can get his backline moving, its just not often enough.

Currently, I wouldn't put him in the welsh squad as I think there are 2/3 better welsh flyhalves than him currently. But he's around the same age as me and theres plenty of time to develop, which I think he will with Morgan coming through, hes going to have to up his creative distribution and get that O's backline moving, because morgan will, and that boy can kick for days just like biggar.

I'm not sure about him getting the backline moving he often seems to kick when either it's not on or when there's an overlap and hesitate when passing leaving the centre/2nd reciever not as much time to exploit a gap.

Also I think a lot of Welsh people think he's arrogant because when he burst on the scene he made a number of comments about how good he was/would become, how he enjoys ordering the international and experienced members of the squad around because that's a flyhalfs job and also would always mouth off on the pitch.
This then gave a lot of ammo to the press (read Western Fail) to write all sorts of immflamatory articles about him, which made matters worse - but he did make a lot of statements which create a very bad impression - particularly when he had a bad run of form which highlighted some of his weaknesses. (Every player has weaknesses, it's just if you've hyped yourself up then people will be putting yours under the microscope)

I've praised biggar on here a number of times, whilst still pointing out his weak areas. I think he will be the best 10 in Wales at some point, he will imo be better than priestland eventually-- unless rhys ups his kicking accuracy, and it will be those two who will share the shirt.

At the moment Biggar has Beck and Bishop outside him. Bishop is a strong and reliable "crash ball" inside centre.........but playing outside centre where he has neither the pace or distribution skills required. Beck, at 21, is promising but very young and inexperienced. When the new centre arrives I am sure there will be more fire power in mid field for Biggar to release.

Hopefully as he grows up, his attitude will improve and he will begin again, to learn and develop the skills he requires to play at the highest level.

Don't forget he is 2 years younger than Priestland and has been first choice 10 for the Ospreys for over a season now. The lesson Biggar can take from this fact is that Priestland has used his time to develop his skills and learn from the experienced players around him. The effects of this thorough apprenticeship can be seen in his performances for Wales and the Scarlets.

If I were his coach I would advise him that if I ever saw him raise his arms in a way that expresses a mocking suggestion by him that all is hopeless or lost in reference to the referee, his team, his team mates or the opposition, then I would tear up his contract there and then.

I was not impressed in the slightest with his game yesterday. He has so much to learn, but has such a Prima Donna mentality.

I was extatuc to see Johnson Bring Biggar off for Matthew Morgan.

Watching Ospreys v Treviso this weekend, I was reminded of the recent past.

SJ makes comments about how good Biggar is, and continues to pick him at 10. His place-kicking has been v good (even though, as I recall, he missed an easy pen against Treviso) but in general he kciks too much and fails to get the back line moving. Lo and behold, in the last 10 minutes, he's subbed and Morgan is brought on to save the day. (It is reported that Morgan was only on the subs bench as a last-minute replacement.) Took me back to those great days when Biggar always started, and when things went belly-up, Biggar was subbed and Hook moved to 10 to save the day (a pattern that was mirrored at internatinal level too).

I have never rated Biggar and still don't. He does not deserve to be in the Wales squad. Place-kicking is not enough. And if a side can't beat Treviso, they have no chance of winning the HC. And with Biggar at the helm at 10, other sides won't have to worry to much to see the Ospreys triumphing in Europe.

Ospreydragon:

Totally agree, when the pressure comes on Biggar is sadly lacking but he still has time on his side. The two last visits to the Dragons he was taken off for Hook but in both game it was too late but the two games changed. The Ospreys should consider him as a full back when Gareth Owens get's fit as he could not do a worse job on current form (over the last 2 years).

Biggar came on the scene as a rookie down at the Library, Ospreys had to fast-track him as Hook was so dire, he since steered the Os to a ML title as well as winning numerous MOM awards often in the big games one against the Tigers. This is something that Hook very rarely did.

I cant recall many games that Hook replaced Biggar and saved the day foir the Os or Wales in fact history shows it was Biggar who saved Hooks bacon by forcing him to move to centre, perhaps Ospreysdragon as usual you are cherry picking your memory bank.

If you look at this season Biggar has been a quantum leap above Hooks performances and I doubt very much if you have heard any press about him since last season, unlike the Hooks, Hensons and the like. Give the lad credit he could have gone gone under with all the negativity about him, but he buckled down worked on the weaknesses of his game and the strengths pre-season and has had a very good start to the new term.

What I saw on Saturday was a reasonable game by Biggar, and a fresh Morgan doing nothing against a tired opposition to suggest he is anything special, he was out of position quite a few times and the only saving grace was his mule kick (superb) and his turn of speed. I believe Johnson is wise enough to bring Morgan on slowly assess how good his overall game is at 10 and then play him in tandem with Biggar over the coming seasons.

Deserves to the the upcoming Wales squad

The way I see it Dan Biggar is the second best 10 in Wales at the moment. Yes I'm an Ospreys fan, but all that means is I've seen a lot of him and apart from the obvious but occasional dips in from that every young player (22) experiences, he's been outstanding.

The problem is he's in a team that's expected to be successful and in the position that get's all the blame off Welsh fans when the backs "don't fire".

Most fans criticse Biggar purely on the Fiji game, claiming that he can't handle the step up to the international stage. What they fail to take into account is that he was operating behind a very poor pack (D.Jones & I.Gough in the second row, Thomas & a poor form R.Jones in the back row) and in an untested half back pairing with R.Rees.

If Gatland wanted to see how effective Biggar could really be, he should have had him as the only change in an otherwise full strenght starting team. That's the only way to test out a position as pivotal as fly-half.

As for the comments saying he's stunting M.Morgans development, Morgan has a long way to go before he's ready to start in regional level rugby. As exciting as he is in attack his defence is almost non-existant on a regular basis. Biggars defence has never been a problem, I will gladly take that back if anyone can provide me with proof to think otherwise.

CurlyOsp

100% agree.

The problem with the Welsh nation (although its getting less and less) is they crave for a "flairy" 10 that will win them games, when the reality is that player went away with the fairies last seen in the 1990s.... unless you can defend, position, and distribute wisely you will always be a massive liability in the modern game.

Priestland has shown the difference between an attack minded but structured flyhalf and an instinctive runner the likes of Hook (and even to a lesser extent young Morgan). One style will provide opportunities to win and save games, the other will be a loose cannon sometimes spectacular and others a complete disaster

I think Biggar will thrive this year, and will add a more potent attacking feature to his game at regional and international level.

sorry, but blaming the Welsh for wanting a 'flairy' flyhalf, is not the reason most of us don't like Dan Biggar, he's a petulant child and he's yet to prove he's got the temperament, or talent, to make the 10 position his own. The Ospreys management believe in him, great for them, but they don't have a viable substitute for him so they have to, but blaming the Welsh public for not wanting him there because of a perceived fantasy about every Wales flyhalf being a 'Barry John' is bull.


There I've said it and I feel better for it!

Turkster wrote:sorry, but blaming the Welsh for wanting a 'flairy' flyhalf, is not the reason most of us don't like Dan Biggar, he's a petulant child and he's yet to prove he's got the temperament, or talent, to make the 10 position his own. The Ospreys management believe in him, great for them, but they don't have a viable substitute for him so they have to, but blaming the Welsh public for not wanting him there because of a perceived fantasy about every Wales flyhalf being a 'Barry John' is bull.


There I've said it and I feel better for it!

Turkster

Most people I speak to, actually think that Buggar has been very responsible to the way he has conducted himself since he was dropped from the Welsh set-up. Its the "lemmings falling off the cliff" syndrome when people bang on about his attitude, "one for all and all for one"

Tell me when he was a petulant child last, I can remember a few instances when he was 19/20 but not last season or even the season before than. Most fans I speak to state that he has acted like a grown-up after been dropped, rolled his sleeves up and quietly got on with the pre-season training, with obvious results. And lets be honest when have you seen him disgrace the Welsh public with his off the rugby field antics, when was he last in the press moaning that he would only play in the 10 role or nothing. NEVER

And mate the "Henson / Hook are God" posters on here are typical of that section of Welsh fans forever crying for a saviour........... 10 mins of spectacular play in their minds (doesn't paper the cracks of their other inadequacies) is better than 80 mins of structured but attacking play. Well the likes of Priestland, Carter, Sexton, has proved otherwise

"I cant recall many games that Hook replaced Biggar and saved the day foir the Os or Wales in fact history shows it was Biggar who saved Hooks bacon by forcing him to move to centre, perhaps Ospreysdragon as usual you are cherry picking your memory bank."

FlyhalfFactory, There's nothing wrong with my memory (well, at least not so far as Biggar's concereed). I am an O's season ticket holder and I regularly go to matches (as well as watching games on tv). Biggar may well develop into a class 10, but he isn't playing like one. I have watched him since he first played for the O's and I am not impressed. Perhaps he is hampered by the coaching team -- that is certainly possible. And perhaps he will develop into a rounded flyhalf with good decision-making, vision, defence, and distribution. But he certainly isn't there yet.

One point I'm making about Biggar is that I see the coaches repeating their patterns of selection, player-positioning ,and game management. If Biggar is as good as he is being bigged up by SJ, why was he substituted at sucha critical point in the game by someone who barely made the subs bench who would be making his debut? Morgan is v inexperienced and has very poor defence, but despite that -- especially if he gets proper coaching -- I think he is a far brighter prospect than Biggar. But that's just my opinion based on what I've seeen so far, and it all depends on how players develop. It also depends on how well players are nurtured and coached.

flyhalffactory wrote:

And mate the "Henson / Hook are God" posters on here are typical of that section of Welsh fans forever crying for a saviour........... 10 mins of spectacular play in their minds (doesn't paper the cracks of their other inadequacies) is better than 80 mins of structured but attacking play. Well the likes of Priestland, Carter, Sexton, has proved otherwise

tell me about it, I've had more than one run in with Hook fanboys, you don't see many Henson fans these days though; you just don't seem to grasp it about Biggar though, he's seen as more of a Dan Parks type player than a Rhys Priestland type in Wales, fair enough he's well behaved off the pitch, but on it, he's petulant. He's got a long way to go and a lot to do to convince the Welsh public he's good enough for Wales, and it's not just the Hook fanboys he's got to convince, it's the rest of us too.

Scott couldn't be more wrong. Biggar has been compared to O'Gara.

ROG is an expert tactical kicker, always goes for 7 points be it by passing or accurate crossfield kicks, he has a deadly boot. He is also superb at drop-kicking the ball at goal, we've seen it throughout his career and also in the past two weeks.

DB is a good passer and kicker. However when there's opportunity to run the ball he just kicks it off the field. Any time his team are in the opposition 22 he drop-kicks at goal and misses by a mile. We've also seen this throughout his career and in the past two weeks.

Morgannwg wrote:Scott couldn't be more wrong. Biggar has been compared to O'Gara.

ROG is an expert tactical kicker, always goes for 7 points be it by passing or accurate crossfield kicks, he has a deadly boot. He is also superb at drop-kicking the ball at goal, we've seen it throughout his career and also in the past two weeks.

DB is a good passer and kicker. However when there's opportunity to run the ball he just kicks it off the field. Any time his team are in the opposition 22 he drop-kicks at goal and misses by a mile. We've also seen this throughout his career and in the past two weeks.

fair call boys, I am not 100% in agreement but lets see how the season goes, I certainly think he is more adventurous than our Dan or ROG, But time will tell

Cheers guys............... signing out for the night

Does Biggar have some form of tourettes ? He always seems quite....twitchy

Every single photo of him on the Huw Evans site has him with has up in the air 'don't blame me, its not my fault'

He doesn't control the game, isn't a consistent kicker, doesn't handle pressure well and isn't particularly dynamic. If he proves me wrong against Oz then fair enough but I would much rather see Morgan or Tovey on the bench. Tovey only missed out on a Test spot last time due to being injured in training. What's he done wrong since ?

Shame that Gatland has picked Biggar again in preference to Tovey.I just dont get it.Just hope that Jason keeps performing and shames Gatland into giving him as many chances.

Wales hasn't seen a truly great fly half for generations. Jinks was a world class kicker but not a word class 10. SJ has been a fantastic servant for Wales playing a lot of games in very average teams. In Priestland we seem to have found a genuine 10 for the modern game, IMO Tovey is similar and the best competition he has.

Biggar is still young and might make it (despite the Ospreys best efforts to screw it up). The days of the twinkle toes fly half are long gone and only exist in Grandad's memory.

offload wrote:Wales hasn't seen a truly great fly half for generations. Jinks was a world class kicker but not a word class 10. SJ has been a fantastic servant for Wales playing a lot of games in very average teams. In Priestland we seem to have found a genuine 10 for the modern game, IMO Tovey is similar and the best competition he has.

Biggar is still young and might make it (despite the Ospreys best efforts to screw it up). The days of the twinkle toes fly half are long gone and only exist in Grandad's memory.

I completely agree.

The reason the welsh have always favoured a flyhalf with a bit of magic is that our backs and loose forwards, even some of the tight ones like to see an open game where they can express and improvise. A ten that can open up a defence with a bit of flair does that for you.

To be fair most rugby fans around the world also enjoy watching the Welsh open it up and make it an exciting spectacle. Hense Priestland and Tovey are better for Wales than Biggar, Steve Jones or Neil Jenkins.


Long may it continue

maestegmafia wrote: Hense Priestland and Tovey are better for Wales than Biggar, Steve Jones or Neil Jenkins.


Long may it continue

big statement, let's hope those 2 do as well as Jinks and Wellies, mind you lumping Wellies in with Biggar now makes you my natural sworn enemy! grrrr

Tovey is a talented player, for sure, but when was the last real high-pressure game he played in? Let alone shone in? Not tried internationally. Needs to be injured less and needs the Dragons to get into high pressure matches (be they amlin cup final or whatever).

Biggar has performed under big pressure a number of times. Although when stepping up internationally, hasnt done a lot, that could be down to a number of reasons. Needs to stop kicking the Poopie out of the ball and start releasing his backs a little more like he did 2 seasons ago.

Priestland (along with Wellies and Hook) seemed just short of making that final kick when it was needed most (albeit at a much higher level of pressure - world cup). Needs to carry on as he has been doing and we'll really start to see what hes made of over this season and next.

all IMO of course.

Take from that what you will, Priestland is the only player of those ready to play and win in international rugby in my eyes.