New names and faces for england team
+19
Mad for Chelsea
HERSH
propdavid_london
RugNut
tom_watson
robshaw4england
EnglishReign
Poorfour
radelven
Cumbrian
Geordie
B91212
LondonTiger
Bring_The_Boom
TycroesOsprey
offload
beshocked
red_stag
flankertye
23 posters
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
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New names and faces for england team
First topic message reminder :
Ok guys.
So Johnsons gone, for better or worse.
But which new names and faces would you like to be included?
I'd like to see Armitage given Cueto's space on the wing, permently.
Also Robshaw at 7 for me.
I'd have 12trees at 12. Tuilagi outside him.
Have Corbs, Hartley, Cole as the starting front row.
Pair Attwood and Lawes together. Maybe give a very young number 8 some game time. I expect Haskell to come back and claim the 8 shirt for a number of years though.
What do you think?
Ok guys.
So Johnsons gone, for better or worse.
But which new names and faces would you like to be included?
I'd like to see Armitage given Cueto's space on the wing, permently.
Also Robshaw at 7 for me.
I'd have 12trees at 12. Tuilagi outside him.
Have Corbs, Hartley, Cole as the starting front row.
Pair Attwood and Lawes together. Maybe give a very young number 8 some game time. I expect Haskell to come back and claim the 8 shirt for a number of years though.
What do you think?
flankertye- Posts : 732
Join date : 2011-06-02
Re: New names and faces for england team
Yappysnap very true I apologise. No Farrell is definitely not as good as Evans. Admittedly for Evans he was injured in at least two of our last four encounters.
beshocked- Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08
Re: New names and faces for england team
LH Props: Alex Corbisiero, Joe Marler
Hookers: Steve Thompson, Dylan Hartley
TH Prop: Dan Cole, Matt Stevens (Davey Wilson/ Paul Doran-Jones)
Locks: Courtney Lawes , Geoff Parling, Matt Garvey and Tom Palmer (if available, if not George Robson).
Flankers: Tom Wood, Chris Robshaw, Tom Croft, David Seymour Carl Fearns (to cover no.8 too)
No.8: Pffft, who indeed? Nick Easter or Thomas Waldrom depending who is playing best, although Fearns would be my first choice.
Scrum Half: Ben Youngs, Danny Care and Lee Dickson
Fly Half: Toby Flood & Owen Farrell
Centres: Brad Barritt, Manu Tuilagi, Henry Trinder & Jordan Turner Hall (Or 36 depending upon who is fit/ playing better.)
Wings: Chris Ashton, Charlie Sharples, Jonny May and James Short (Would have Wade, but I'd rather he have a year in the AP first)
Full back: Ben Foden & Alex Goode
The thing that strikes me is that we’re screwed if Dan Cole get injured...
I’d be looking at variations on the back row:
6. Chris Robshaw 6. Carl Fearns 6. Tom Croft 6. Chris Robshaw
7. Tom Wood 7. Tom Wood 7. Chris Robshaw 7. Dave Seymour
8. Nick Easter 8. Nick Easter 8. Carl Fearns 8. Nick Easter
Or another variation on the theme.
I personally like the ideas of Fearns at 6. Could have Robshaw/ Croft on the bench and bring him on at 50-60 minutes to replace Easter with Fearns switching to eight
It’s young and inexperienced, but in this 6 nations I think England should not worry about things and give it a belt...
01. Alex Corbisiero
02. Steve Thompson
03. Dan Cole
04. Courtney Lawes
05. Geoff Parling
06. Carl Fearns
07. Tom Wood
08. Nick Easter/ Thomas Waldrom
09. Ben Youngs
10. Toby Flood
11. Jonny May/ Charlie Sharples/ James Short
12. Brad Barritt
13. Manu Tuilagi
14. Chris Ashton
15. Ben Foden
16. Dylan Hartley
17. Joe Marler
18. Matt Garvey
19. Tom Croft
20. Lee Dickson
21. Owen Farrell
22. Alex Goode
Hookers: Steve Thompson, Dylan Hartley
TH Prop: Dan Cole, Matt Stevens (Davey Wilson/ Paul Doran-Jones)
Locks: Courtney Lawes , Geoff Parling, Matt Garvey and Tom Palmer (if available, if not George Robson).
Flankers: Tom Wood, Chris Robshaw, Tom Croft, David Seymour Carl Fearns (to cover no.8 too)
No.8: Pffft, who indeed? Nick Easter or Thomas Waldrom depending who is playing best, although Fearns would be my first choice.
Scrum Half: Ben Youngs, Danny Care and Lee Dickson
Fly Half: Toby Flood & Owen Farrell
Centres: Brad Barritt, Manu Tuilagi, Henry Trinder & Jordan Turner Hall (Or 36 depending upon who is fit/ playing better.)
Wings: Chris Ashton, Charlie Sharples, Jonny May and James Short (Would have Wade, but I'd rather he have a year in the AP first)
Full back: Ben Foden & Alex Goode
The thing that strikes me is that we’re screwed if Dan Cole get injured...
I’d be looking at variations on the back row:
6. Chris Robshaw 6. Carl Fearns 6. Tom Croft 6. Chris Robshaw
7. Tom Wood 7. Tom Wood 7. Chris Robshaw 7. Dave Seymour
8. Nick Easter 8. Nick Easter 8. Carl Fearns 8. Nick Easter
Or another variation on the theme.
I personally like the ideas of Fearns at 6. Could have Robshaw/ Croft on the bench and bring him on at 50-60 minutes to replace Easter with Fearns switching to eight
It’s young and inexperienced, but in this 6 nations I think England should not worry about things and give it a belt...
01. Alex Corbisiero
02. Steve Thompson
03. Dan Cole
04. Courtney Lawes
05. Geoff Parling
06. Carl Fearns
07. Tom Wood
08. Nick Easter/ Thomas Waldrom
09. Ben Youngs
10. Toby Flood
11. Jonny May/ Charlie Sharples/ James Short
12. Brad Barritt
13. Manu Tuilagi
14. Chris Ashton
15. Ben Foden
16. Dylan Hartley
17. Joe Marler
18. Matt Garvey
19. Tom Croft
20. Lee Dickson
21. Owen Farrell
22. Alex Goode
Last edited by Cumbrian on Tue 22 Nov 2011, 2:06 pm; edited 2 times in total
Cumbrian- Posts : 5656
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 41
Location : Bath
Re: New names and faces for england team
formerly known as Sam wrote:Parling is now 28/29 I don't think that counts as young. Talented he certainly is and probabley the best lineout operator in the league.
If Kitchener is a possiblle Saxon then Slater should be as well, Slater kept him out of the team at the start of the season and has shown good form this year.
Did you miss the (ish) ?
Agreed about Slater, he's been an excellent signing for the Tigers. But I'd be wary about taking too many players from a club in one position. Leicester could lose Parling, Kitchener and Slater from their 2nd row, which I feel would stretch them.
Cumbrian- Posts : 5656
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 41
Location : Bath
Re: New names and faces for england team
Beshocked's phrase of the day:
Silver Platter
Silver Platter
Time For Trumpton- Posts : 89
Join date : 2011-11-18
Re: New names and faces for england team
Rugnut, you're 3 players short of the usual 33 man EPS. Conventionally there's 5 props, 3 Hookers & 3 SHs. I presume Twelvetrees as a centre is your emergency FH cover.
I'd add Mullan to your prop selection, Webber to your hookers and Simpson to your SHs.
Johnson was certainly playing very well for Exeter last season, but my concern is that at 29yo it's highly questionable if he is a longterm answer. Narraway just doesn't look like he can step up that final level to international grade, he's underwhelmed for the Saxons in recent games the last couple of seasons and isn't even first choice for Gloucester at the moment. I hope Guest comes back well from injury, he's a favourite of mine, and I wouldn't hesitate to have him (& Crane) if fit & firing back in the squad, but at the moment he hasn't played rugby for the best part of a year. I'd sub in Fearns to your selection and back an out and out openside like Seymour, Gibson or Mercer (wish Armitage was still about) to develop within the squad.
Don't have a big problem with Farrell, but my preference would be for Burns, he plays more in the style I want to see us adopt. I'd maybe bump the squad to 34 as it has been before and have both.
Barritt is a must for me. Stand out IC in the league this season and has been superb for a couple. I like JTH, definitely carries well and makes good yards, but the stats also show that he gets turned over more than his peers (1 in 7 carries to Barritt's 1 in 14) and doesn't pass as much (only a third of ball he receives compared to Barritt's half). I like a hard running inside centre, but we also need to see more accent on distribution, and Barritt & Twelevetrees do that better.
Monye doesn't make the grade for me. He's capable of great strength and athleticism, but he also often lacks incision or doesn't take the correct option, there are more complete players. I like Benjamin and think he'll definitely fgure in the future, but he hasn't looked quite at his best so far this season. I'd take a chance on young Wade, who has been electric so far this season, and I'd give the other spot to Jonathan Joseph. He plays both centre and wing, has been in great form (I'd probably have him over one of the other centres if push came to shove) and would be my choice for the 22 shirt as utility cover.
A lot of people are picking Lawes & Attwood as their starting lock pair, but neither of them run a line out. Robson and or Parling would be needed. I'd like to see a Lawes & Robson partnership.
I'd add Mullan to your prop selection, Webber to your hookers and Simpson to your SHs.
Johnson was certainly playing very well for Exeter last season, but my concern is that at 29yo it's highly questionable if he is a longterm answer. Narraway just doesn't look like he can step up that final level to international grade, he's underwhelmed for the Saxons in recent games the last couple of seasons and isn't even first choice for Gloucester at the moment. I hope Guest comes back well from injury, he's a favourite of mine, and I wouldn't hesitate to have him (& Crane) if fit & firing back in the squad, but at the moment he hasn't played rugby for the best part of a year. I'd sub in Fearns to your selection and back an out and out openside like Seymour, Gibson or Mercer (wish Armitage was still about) to develop within the squad.
Don't have a big problem with Farrell, but my preference would be for Burns, he plays more in the style I want to see us adopt. I'd maybe bump the squad to 34 as it has been before and have both.
Barritt is a must for me. Stand out IC in the league this season and has been superb for a couple. I like JTH, definitely carries well and makes good yards, but the stats also show that he gets turned over more than his peers (1 in 7 carries to Barritt's 1 in 14) and doesn't pass as much (only a third of ball he receives compared to Barritt's half). I like a hard running inside centre, but we also need to see more accent on distribution, and Barritt & Twelevetrees do that better.
Monye doesn't make the grade for me. He's capable of great strength and athleticism, but he also often lacks incision or doesn't take the correct option, there are more complete players. I like Benjamin and think he'll definitely fgure in the future, but he hasn't looked quite at his best so far this season. I'd take a chance on young Wade, who has been electric so far this season, and I'd give the other spot to Jonathan Joseph. He plays both centre and wing, has been in great form (I'd probably have him over one of the other centres if push came to shove) and would be my choice for the 22 shirt as utility cover.
A lot of people are picking Lawes & Attwood as their starting lock pair, but neither of them run a line out. Robson and or Parling would be needed. I'd like to see a Lawes & Robson partnership.
radelven- Posts : 147
Join date : 2011-08-28
Re: New names and faces for england team
radelven wrote:A lot of people are picking Lawes & Attwood as their starting lock pair, but neither of them run a line out. Robson and or Parling would be needed. I'd like to see a Lawes & Robson partnership.
If Lawes/Attwood were selected then you could select Croft at 6 who could run the lineout.
LondonTiger- Moderator
- Posts : 23485
Join date : 2011-02-10
Re: New names and faces for england team
Croft is only the 3rd choice lineout operator at his club for a reason LT. Deacon who is 2nd choice found it hard going against the French and he had Croft and Palmer alongside him who are damn decent jumpers as well as an experienced hooker in Thompson. If Croft took it on he would have two fairly decent but rookie jumpers and anyone of three or four different hookers with a fair chance that it might be a new guy. Would be a big ask, especially when both Robson and Parling are in form and Attwood is on the bench when Bath have all the second row fit.
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21334
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 38
Location : Leicestershire
Re: New names and faces for england team
Oh I am not saying Attwood should be selected, just raising the possibility.
I just hope that the caretaker coach does not throw away every single experienced player.
I just hope that the caretaker coach does not throw away every single experienced player.
LondonTiger- Moderator
- Posts : 23485
Join date : 2011-02-10
Re: New names and faces for england team
I just hope that the caretaker coach does not throw away every single experienced player
You and me both. Keeping a core of the squad in place and building around them is the sensible thing to do. Keeping the likes of Thompson, Easter, Hodgson around the squad will help the new boys as well as the core of the team which is pretty young anyway.
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21334
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 38
Location : Leicestershire
Re: New names and faces for england team
Fot those picking Carl Fearns, apparently he's going to be out for up to 3 months. Unless Guest makes a speedy and notable return to form after injury (back this month isn't he?), with Crane out and Haskell away, it seems the only options available at 8 are Easter & Narraway (don't rate the latter as highly as many, he too often goes missing in big games). At least a season too early for the likes of Gray & York surely?
hawalsh- Posts : 345
Join date : 2011-08-28
Re: New names and faces for england team
hawalsh wrote:Fot those picking Carl Fearns, apparently he's going to be out for up to 3 months. Unless Guest makes a speedy and notable return to form after injury (back this month isn't he?), with Crane out and Haskell away, it seems the only options available at 8 are Easter & Narraway (don't rate the latter as highly as many, he too often goes missing in big games). At least a season too early for the likes of Gray & York surely?
Well what happens if a scenario rises where Fearns, Crane, Guest and say Narraway is injured....and we have Easter as our only recognised senior "ish" No.8
Do we pick an established player like Wood, or Croft, or Lawes etc to play 8...(after we have all complained about playing players out of position) or do we bring in a novice but potentially very good player like Gray or York...who are actually No.8's?
Geordie- Posts : 28896
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle
Re: New names and faces for england team
it seems the only options available at 8 are Easter & Narraway
Plus Waldrom, who may divide opinion but is in good form. Even if he isn't particularly English.
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21334
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 38
Location : Leicestershire
Re: New names and faces for england team
hawalsh wrote:Fot those picking Carl Fearns, apparently he's going to be out for up to 3 months. Unless Guest makes a speedy and notable return to form after injury (back this month isn't he?), with Crane out and Haskell away, it seems the only options available at 8 are Easter & Narraway (don't rate the latter as highly as many, he too often goes missing in big games). At least a season too early for the likes of Gray & York surely?
Ah bum, looks like he had an operation a couple of weeks ago. I'd look at replacing him with Tom Johnson, Calum Clarke, Magnus Lund/ Steffon Armitage (if only!) or Andy Saull
Damn you Haskell you meat head!
Cumbrian- Posts : 5656
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 41
Location : Bath
Re: New names and faces for england team
formerly known as Sam wrote:it seems the only options available at 8 are Easter & Narraway
Plus Waldrom, who may divide opinion but is in good form. Even if he isn't particularly English.
I must say Waldroom has been nothing like as good as he was last season, no matter how much the Sky pundits try to hype him
yappysnap- Posts : 11993
Join date : 2011-06-01
Age : 36
Location : Christchurch, NZ
Re: New names and faces for england team
He wasn't early in the season (before heading down to warm a bench in NZ) but recently he's been playing better. Had a very good game against Ulster and got man of the match. Should hopefully see him kick on from that, think his early season form was hampered by a loss in confidence, first at not getting selected by England and secondly for his lack of control at the base of the scrum. He seemed short of his usual bravado.
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21334
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 38
Location : Leicestershire
Re: New names and faces for england team
Thompson's playing career has been put on hold due to pain in his neck.
Thompson, who was forced to retire previously with a neck injury before he resumed playing again for Brive in France, now requires medical advice on the extent of the problem.
Just read that on the Sky website - looks like we will need to develop backup for Hartley sooner rather than later.
Mears - injured
Webber - possible
Jamie George - maybe saxons
Tom Youngs - saxons?
I like Joe Grey at quins - but again needs saxons time
David Paice - Hmmm, needs to sort out lineout, got international caps - could be a stop gap for the youngsters.
Thompson, who was forced to retire previously with a neck injury before he resumed playing again for Brive in France, now requires medical advice on the extent of the problem.
Just read that on the Sky website - looks like we will need to develop backup for Hartley sooner rather than later.
Mears - injured
Webber - possible
Jamie George - maybe saxons
Tom Youngs - saxons?
I like Joe Grey at quins - but again needs saxons time
David Paice - Hmmm, needs to sort out lineout, got international caps - could be a stop gap for the youngsters.
propdavid_london- Posts : 3546
Join date : 2011-06-01
Location : London
Re: New names and faces for england team
The bring back Borthwick campaign starts here.
Justice_4_Borthwick
Justice_4_Borthwick
HERSH- Posts : 4207
Join date : 2011-08-26
Location : Arundel/Bath
Re: New names and faces for england team
propdavid_london wrote:Thompson's playing career has been put on hold due to pain in his neck.
Thompson, who was forced to retire previously with a neck injury before he resumed playing again for Brive in France, now requires medical advice on the extent of the problem.
Just read that on the Sky website - looks like we will need to develop backup for Hartley sooner rather than later.
Mears - injured
Webber - possible
Jamie George - maybe saxons
Tom Youngs - saxons?
I like Joe Grey at quins - but again needs saxons time
David Paice - Hmmm, needs to sort out lineout, got international caps - could be a stop gap for the youngsters.
Prop...im in agreeance as the Saxons as a development squad / team, but sometimes if a player is doing well at premier and HC level, then im of the school "get them involved" in the seniors.
Especially in cases where we are short of players - and we are at hooker. If unfortunately Thommo is out , then its probably Hartley to start even though he is well off form....
Thus i would have Grey on the bench and give him 20 -30 mins.
I think its these situations where the Aussies / Kiwis and SA's are WAY ahead of us...they dont pity patty about...if someone is showing potential...and playing well at certain levels...then they get them involved....
Funnily Wales appeared to adopt that attitude just before the WC and look at whats happened.
Geordie- Posts : 28896
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle
Re: New names and faces for england team
Tom Youngs - saxons?
Unconfirmed rumours of a bulging disc and an op. Hopefully he shouldn't be out to long. Swiftly becomming a fan favourite at Welford Rd.
I say put Grey and Webber into the first team and see which one shines the most in training and then bring them into the team. Hartley isn't showing much form and we have been including Chuter and Mears in the EPS squads for a while now. We might as well experiment whilst we have a settled prop selection (the likes of Corbs, Cole, PDJ, Wilson have been around the squad for a year at least).
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21334
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 38
Location : Leicestershire
Re: New names and faces for england team
So with all the threads about at the moment....we could be starting with something like below if its up to the fans....
1 Corbs
2 Grey / Webber
3 Cole
4 Lawes
5 Parling / Robson
6 Robshaw
7 Wood
8 Easter
9 Youngs
10 Flood
11 Wade
12 Barrit
13 Tuilagi
14 Ashton
15 Foden
Backs are pretty good mind....
1 Corbs
2 Grey / Webber
3 Cole
4 Lawes
5 Parling / Robson
6 Robshaw
7 Wood
8 Easter
9 Youngs
10 Flood
11 Wade
12 Barrit
13 Tuilagi
14 Ashton
15 Foden
Backs are pretty good mind....
Geordie- Posts : 28896
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle
Re: New names and faces for england team
01 Alex Corbiesiero
02 Dylan Hartley
03 Dan Cole
04 Courtney Lawes
05 Tom Croft
06 Chris Robshaw
07 Tom Wood
08 Luke Narraway
09 Ben Youngs
10 Toby Flood
12 Anthony Allen
13 Manu Tuilagi
11 Chris Sharples
14 Chris Ashton
15 Ben Foden
02 Dylan Hartley
03 Dan Cole
04 Courtney Lawes
05 Tom Croft
06 Chris Robshaw
07 Tom Wood
08 Luke Narraway
09 Ben Youngs
10 Toby Flood
12 Anthony Allen
13 Manu Tuilagi
11 Chris Sharples
14 Chris Ashton
15 Ben Foden
Re: New names and faces for england team
red_stag wrote:01 Alex Corbiesiero
02 Dylan Hartley
03 Dan Cole
04 Courtney Lawes
05 Tom Croft
06 Chris Robshaw
07 Tom Wood
08 Luke Narraway
09 Ben Youngs
10 Toby Flood
12 Anthony Allen
13 Manu Tuilagi
11 Chris Sharples
14 Chris Ashton
15 Ben Foden
I see what you did there
Geordie- Posts : 28896
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle
Re: New names and faces for england team
Corbs, Grey, Cole - all under 25 and Cole (23 caps) and Corbs (10 caps) have shown themselves dab hands at this level and Grey's ball carrying skills and solid but not spectacular set piece skills should bring a nice balance to the front row.
Lawes, Parling/Robson - Lawes has caps but not much experience whilst Parling and Robson are happy running a lineout and have bags of domestic experience but no caps, all under 30.
Croft, Robshaw, Easter - Keeping Easter and Croft in there means that the backrow will have a hefty 79 caps between them whilst one cap wonder Robshaw will get to add a bit more bite to proceedings.
Youngs, Flood - the tried and tested half back partnership which has worked for club and country.
Barritt, Manu - The form IC in the AP who also organises the fearsome Sarries defensive line next to Englands most explosive player. They are both big boys with good hands and Barritt has suprising footballing skills despite Sarries mainly using him as a crash option.
Short, Ashton, Foden - Foden and Ashton continue as they are continually good for England and have international experience but add in the pacey and deceptively strong Sarries winger Short who offers defensive security as well as plenty of pace ball in hand.
There you go, keeping two thirds of the current team and adding to it in the right places with players who are defensively sound but at the same time increasing the England options going forward.
A bench of; Wilson, Hartley, Attwood, Wood, Care, Hodgson, Sharples/Trinder. To offer a good mix of caps and impetus depending on what we need to add team as the game goes on.
Lawes, Parling/Robson - Lawes has caps but not much experience whilst Parling and Robson are happy running a lineout and have bags of domestic experience but no caps, all under 30.
Croft, Robshaw, Easter - Keeping Easter and Croft in there means that the backrow will have a hefty 79 caps between them whilst one cap wonder Robshaw will get to add a bit more bite to proceedings.
Youngs, Flood - the tried and tested half back partnership which has worked for club and country.
Barritt, Manu - The form IC in the AP who also organises the fearsome Sarries defensive line next to Englands most explosive player. They are both big boys with good hands and Barritt has suprising footballing skills despite Sarries mainly using him as a crash option.
Short, Ashton, Foden - Foden and Ashton continue as they are continually good for England and have international experience but add in the pacey and deceptively strong Sarries winger Short who offers defensive security as well as plenty of pace ball in hand.
There you go, keeping two thirds of the current team and adding to it in the right places with players who are defensively sound but at the same time increasing the England options going forward.
A bench of; Wilson, Hartley, Attwood, Wood, Care, Hodgson, Sharples/Trinder. To offer a good mix of caps and impetus depending on what we need to add team as the game goes on.
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21334
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 38
Location : Leicestershire
Re: New names and faces for england team
I would be happy with either Sams or redstags teams in the 6N's.
All except for Short, haven't really seen much of him. Is he better then Sharples, Trinder, Wade, Smith? Doesn't score as many as any of those boys.
All except for Short, haven't really seen much of him. Is he better then Sharples, Trinder, Wade, Smith? Doesn't score as many as any of those boys.
yappysnap- Posts : 11993
Join date : 2011-06-01
Age : 36
Location : Christchurch, NZ
Re: New names and faces for england team
red_stag wrote:12 Anthony Allen
Allen is out for another 2-3 months isn't he? Even if he makes it back in time, can't see him making the EPS announced in January if he hasn't played rugby for 4 months. Indeed, it would be criminal if he did given the form of other candidates.
hawalsh- Posts : 345
Join date : 2011-08-28
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