Paddy Wallace Injured

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2011/1118/ulster_wallacep.html

Out for 8 weeks

Does this get Spence into the team?
Is this good or bad for Ulster?
Does this weaken his chance of playing for Ireland in 6 Nations.

Yes.
Indifferent. There is a risk of a lack of experience initially, but will give the youngsters valuable experience.
Yes. He will be returning at the crucial time. There are other injuries that may be suffered by then though, so who knows. Kidney may in fact realise Darcy is rubbish.

My initial thought was "oh fiddlesticks" - yes, I was that devastated. But, like Rodders, I always thought Spence could turn out to be a class 12. I suspect that his size and speed will be of benefit against the inexperienced Forsythe. Add Trimble coming off his wing a bit more and gaps will open up for Cave, Gilroy and Daniell to finish. Does it weaken us? Not so much but it will mean we will play in a different way.

Stag yes this means Spence will get a run.

It weakens Ulster from the point of view that Paddy was back up 10 with Pienaar out.

Spence is a different type of player but imo Spence and Cave offers more in attack and defence than Wallace and Cave. A lot of Ulster fans will disagree but hey ho I can only call it as I see it.

Our back play was very poor last week and IHumph, Wallace and Danielli were all guilty of crabbing across the field when we desperately needed some one to straighten the line or cut back at an angle. Spence is that guy IMO.

I'm genuinely sorry to see Paddy injured and he's a fine player but for me we will see our best centre combination again.

It massively weakens us. Spence while haing massive potential doesnt have the awareness of space or the pass that paddy brings to the table. I am pleased to see Spence getting more gametime but to my mind he is not a 12 and wont be used there once Marshall comes through.

I am hopeful though that he can bring his physicality to bear on the leicester midfield as he should be getting better ball than he has got at any stage this season.

Stand Paddy showed very little awareness of space last week.

I would go as far as to say that Spence reads the game better than Wallace at times and I'd bet if he'd have played last weekend Clermonts try would not have been scored.

roddersm wrote:Stand Paddy showed very little awareness of space last week.

I would go as far as to say that Spence reads the game better than Wallace at times and I'd bet if he'd have played last weekend Clermonts try would not have been scored.

Sorry Rodders that is crap - no way Paddy can be blamed for that try.

A pathetic tackle attempt from Trimble must take the majority of the blame - 0% down to Paddy.

Paddy was excellent last week. He shouldnt be the one used to straighten the line as taking contact isnt what he is best at. The problem last week was Danielli entered the line at an angle and not straight which didnt hold the inside defence and allowed the drift.

I really dont see the top two inches we speak of in Spences game yet. Again i dont mean this to be overly critical but to my mind he is better at 13 with someone pulling the strings.

Irrespective of this debate we have the best two centres available to us playing this saturday. I am hoping Spence can punch a few holes but i hope we are also cute enough to use him as a decoy.

On last weeks try i think it was a combination of Cave and Trimble that caused it. Cave should have trusted paddy on his inside. He didnt and as a result Rougerie drew in 2 men and got the offload away. Trimble should have made a better fist of Byrne but he was Cave's man.

Geoff it was a botch up between the two. As the inside man Wallace should have been on top of things. Spence is a superb reader in defence and would have covered I believe. Yes Trimble was at fault but Wallace does not organise the defence as well as Spence.

I think the most important question here is, has anyone told Notch yet??

Dreamer - he's in hospital at the minute. Notch IS Paddy Wallace.

Have to agree with Geoff Rooders. Trimble made a rare mistake and his tackle attempt made him look awful. He will be forgiven as usual and rightly so.

As for Paddy. We don't want any injuries of course, but surely if you had to pick anyone to get injured you would pick one of our centers.

Could be a lot worse. Compared with Pienars and Paynes absence. this is only a minor setback. Ok maybe not 'minor' but you know what i'm saying.

Glad it wasnt Trimble, Gilroy, Humph, Or any of our back row.

Standulstermen wrote:Paddy was excellent last week. He shouldnt be the one used to straighten the line as taking contact isnt what he is best at. The problem last week was Danielli entered the line at an angle and not straight which didnt hold the inside defence and allowed the drift.

Sorry Stand I disagree. If IHumph drifts Wallace has to cut back or give him an angle. It's basic midfield play. Instead Wallace was drifting as well cutting of the space for the men outside. It was atrocious stuff and Wallace needs to take his share of the blame. If he doesn't want to take the contact he shouldn't be playing 12.

Cave organises our defence Rodders. The system depends on trusting your inside man and unfortunately Darren either didnt trust Paddy or felt that by stepping in he could effectively halt rougerie and stop the offload.

Paddy was there to make the tackle so Cave should have trusted him or effectively stopped rougerie. Sadly he did neither

Thats my point Stand if Spence was inside I bet Cave would have trusted him. I didn't mean the try was Paddys fault just that if Spence had of been there I don't think it would have happened that way.

Personally, I prefer Wallace at 12 to Spence there even though to me Spence is our most talented centre of the lot. I think his position is at 13 or even on the wing, not at 12 where he cannot play his type of game. Cave may be the man with the shirt now but I think it is a good thing that Spence has to challenge for his shirt back than just accept being played out of position.

Also, where is Marshall? I would have liked him to be playing 12 here instead of Spence. I would like to see Wallace paired with Spence, and Marshall paired with Cave as we develop the two, so that they are playing with an experienced head.

Rodders

THe point is though that Cave was at fault then. Why didnt cave trust paddy on that one occasion and then did it on the others. To my mind cave tried to be clever and stop rougerie dead but he failed to stop the offload.

If paddy is used to straighten the line from 12 rodders then he is running straight back into the opposition backrow which is absolute madness. the only time he should do that is if he is being used on the dummy.

Spence can be used more in this regard as he is more dynamic and pacier than paddy and more likely to break the tackle but again that is crash ball territory. We did have space on the outside against clermont but we lacked the pace to use it.

We need to see Gilroy, Trimble and Danielli cutting the lines back inside (preferably danielli as he lacks the pace on the outside).

Rory

marshall has a broken jaw. another 4/5 weeks i think

Marshall is injured Rory.

Look I respect what you and Geoff are saying. Perhaps I am harsh on Wallace but I think you are harsh on Spence. We'll have to agree to disagree (again ) .

I actually am not that bothered because I have faith in all our options: Marshall, Wallace even Whitten. I just think Spence is an exceptional talent in either centre position and I'd rather see him play 12 than not at all.

Cave is just too good to leave out.

Standulstermen wrote:
If paddy is used to straighten the line from 12 rodders then he is running straight back into the opposition backrow which is absolute madness. the only time he should do that is if he is being used on the dummy.

Stand if the 10 drifts then the defence drifts, that is the point. The 12 needs to straighten or cut back at an angle to break the line or run a decoy to halt the drift and create a gap for the 13. If the 12 drifts too it all goes lateral and you don't cross the gainline and end up heading for the touchline. That happened several times against Clermont. Danielli was at fault on at least one occaision but so was Wallace.

Humph is enough of a threat to the line that he can hold the defence and i dont see he drifting too much. If Humph drifts he takes the ball to the line and the miss pass is used. I agree with you in that if Paddy were to cut back he should be used as a decoy. Running into heavy traffic isnt were he is best used and this does suit spence more.

I rate Spence massively and i think he can get some joy against the leicester centres. THat being said i think we need to be cute in how we use him. By all means give him the ball to truck it up on occasion but i do think we need to see him swap with Cave at times and get him running in the wider channels as well as using him as a decoy and going behind him to Cave or a wing.

If we can do that it will greatly help for when Spence is used on the crash as he wont be being lined up each and every time

Stand we could be discussiing the dynamics of backplay until the cows come home. I'm probably talking bollix anyway ....

The bottom line is Wallace is out and Spence is in so lets see how he gets on. Lets hope I'm the one saying I told you so after the game eh !

Ah no rodders all i have said is that Paddy is a massive loss. Im not knocking spence. I hope to god he runs over, through and under the tigers this weekend. as i have mentioned he should get better ball (if Marshall can play as he did last week) so i would like to see him impose himself on the game.

Only joking stand. I agree Paddy is a loss but I just think with Spence in, what we lose on the swings we'll gain on the roundabouts.

If we struggle at scrum time our backs could end up on the backfoot a lot and if the game becomes a real backs to the wall scrap I think Spence is a good player to have at 12 because of his superior ability to win the collisions.

Sorry Rodders unnecessarily strident on my post - sorry about that.

Having said that I stand by what I say I have rewatched the try again and just do not believe Paddy is to blame.

If anyone else is to blame it is Cave or Danielli.

I also dont agree Spence organises the defence better than Wallace. Spence needs to be talked to a lot - which is fine given his inexperience.

no problem Geoff you were quite right. In truth I can't exactly remember the try other that it was a midfield botch up involving Trimble and the men inside.

I've probobly been a tad unfair to Paddy, who I do rate, to emphasise my points but I'm looking forward to seeing Spence and Cave together again.

So am I

Going home to book the taxi for tomorrowmorning - getting the 9.25am out of City.

Also print off a couple of maps with key pubs and the two hotels my group are staying in suitably marked.

Should be there 12.00 to 12.30. Bite to eat then a real Ale pub to watch the warm up matches - perfect