England's No2

Watched the Saints v Scarlets match this weekend and was astounded at how poorly Hartley played. Almost every time he got near the ball he gave it back to the Welshmen. Appalling lack of ball handling by someone who tout him as the best hooker England have. He needs a series of very good games, which I doubt he is capable of, to get anywhere near the England squad IMO. There must be someone better. I just hope Thompson is still around for the immediate future.

I dont rate him at all....

I would start with Thompson and hope that Gray / Webber etc come good.

I think Gray deserves a shot, playing well in a dominant team, lineout is strong despite having a relatively short 2nd row to aim at, scrum is going OK despite having Marler next to him who, although great in the loose, is nowhere near a decent scrummager yet.

After him i think Paice has been playing excellently.

I'd like to see Gray given a shot as the younger man. Hartley is a big lump but the one part of his game that looked like he would excel at, ball carrying, has gone backwards alarmingly. The worst part is that it appears to be technique, he makes contact far too upright. I also think Gray's workrate is excellent, as is Paice's. I think we should look beyond Thompson.

How about giving Matthew Mullan a run of games at hooker for worcester he has played there before and is a fantastic all round player with scary speed for a front row player....could be the answer ?

I'm a Saints fan and feel that Hartley's form has suffered because of last year. Due to the lack of depth in the squad, along with all the games Northampton had with the league and cup runs then Tiny, Hartley and Mujati were just exhausted and jaded by the end of the season. It's no coincidence that out of the 3 only Mujarti has found some form this season after a proper break, both Tiny and Hartley went to New Zealand and have just ended up playing for 18 months solid now.

We know when he is on form then Hartley can be international standard. The best thing that could happen to him is he has a full off season this year and begins next season refreshed.

As for replacements I like Grey. Rate Paice around the field but the games I have seen him play this year his throwing has been poor. Unless he has sorted that out then he shouldn't be near the England squad for now.

B91212

reckon your spot on there so many internationals are going to be flat out exhausted and over played after the RWC i remember Ben Cohen after 2003 saying he thought about quitting because they had played so much rugby in the past 2 years he was just disillusioned with the game.

Hartley can be world class when on form, i still think he's a little ***t though, i watched the scarlets game on fri and he was always trying to start something...literally every single chance he got he was dropping elbows, putting his head in, i remember seeing him pat a Scarlets player on the back in a break in play....and i thought fair play a bit of sportsmanship then he moved his hand up and started pinching the skin on the back of the players neck as hard as he could. I know hookers are meant to be niggly and rugbys a contact sport but Hartley just comes across as a dirty player and i especially don't like watching his BS when he's wearing a red rose on his shirt.

I thought he had outgrown that crap but I'm thinking as he becomes more and more frustrated it's come back into his game. He needs a Dorian West or Graham Rountree to give a him a good shake and tell him to grow up and concentrate on his game.

I noticed Lyndsey started for Wasps this weekend...how did he get on....a big lad.

sirtidychris wrote:i watched the scarlets game on fri and he was always trying to start something...literally every single chance he got he was dropping elbows, putting his head in

It's funny how times change and what we expect from our players now. When people reminisce about the good old days, craft punches, elbows, heads and 99 calls are often what is laughed about and heralded. The likes of Moore, Cockerill & Regan certainly didn't shy away from such activity.

Haywood looks a fine prospect.

B91212 wrote:I'm a Saints fan and feel that Hartley's form has suffered because of last year. Due to the lack of depth in the squad, along with all the games Northampton had with the league and cup runs then Tiny, Hartley and Mujati were just exhausted and jaded by the end of the season. It's no coincidence that out of the 3 only Mujarti has found some form this season after a proper break, both Tiny and Hartley went to New Zealand and have just ended up playing for 18 months solid now.

We know when he is on form then Hartley can be international standard. The best thing that could happen to him is he has a full off season this year and begins next season refreshed.

I think you are absolutely right. These guys are knackered. We see much of the same things when some players return from Lions tours. Takes a long time to get their bodies (and sometimes their heads) back and firing.

When a person is tired, mentally and physically, it becomes harder to maintain self-control to previous standards. And for Dylan, with his personality he needs to be on it all the time. He was last season, and fully merited the Saints captain's role. And did a great job.

So, let's not throw the baby out with the dishwater quite yet. There is a lot of very good Rugby to come from this young man, and I think he will do his club and country proud.

DaveM wrote:Haywood looks a fine prospect.

Is that the lad at Saints? Yeah he looks decent..

How about giving Matthew Mullan a run of games at hooker for worcester he has played there before and is a fantastic all round player with scary speed for a front row player....could be the answer ? .

I'd prefer to think of him as the answer to the loosehead problem. He seems a good scrummager and is pretty effective in the loose, would like to see him get a run out during the 6Ns.

I thought he had outgrown that crap but I'm thinking as he becomes more and more frustrated it's come back into his game. He needs a Dorian West or Graham Rountree to give a him a good shake and tell him to grow up and concentrate on his game..

To be honest there was a lot of niggle all over and no where near all of it was coming from the Saints. Hartley should be doing his best to get into the faces of the opposition but whilst he is out of form his little digs just look silly. The best hookers all get their digs in and wind up the opposition but they have form to back it up, if you haven't got the form then it's best to lay off the silly stuff until you have.

As for hooking options I'd hope Rowntree and Wells were watching Grey, Webber, Paice and Thompson (went he's fit again) ahead of the 6N as three of those four should be in the England squad.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

How about giving Matthew Mullan a run of games at hooker for worcester he has played there before and is a fantastic all round player with scary speed for a front row player....could be the answer ? .

I'd prefer to think of him as the answer to the loosehead problem. He seems a good scrummager and is pretty effective in the loose, would like to see him get a run out during the 6Ns.

I thought he had outgrown that crap but I'm thinking as he becomes more and more frustrated it's come back into his game. He needs a Dorian West or Graham Rountree to give a him a good shake and tell him to grow up and concentrate on his game..

To be honest there was a lot of niggle all over and no where near all of it was coming from the Saints. Hartley should be doing his best to get into the faces of the opposition but whilst he is out of form his little digs just look silly. The best hookers all get their digs in and wind up the opposition but they have form to back it up, if you haven't got the form then it's best to lay off the silly stuff until you have.

As for hooking options I'd hope Rowntree and Wells were watching Grey, Webber, Paice and Thompson (went he's fit again) ahead of the 6N as three of those four should be in the England squad.

I agree about Mullan staying at loosehead. I like the idea of him and Corbiserio fighting over the number 1 shirt this 6N. I would have them both in front of Marler for now until he becomes stronger in the scrum, which I'm guessing he will the more he plays. Another year in the Saxons and Marler may be ready to tour with the full squad this summer.

They didn't show the Saints game over here so all I've seen are highlights on the net. I agree that the digs look foolish whilst he is out of form and probably hurt the Saints more than the opposition whilst things are not going well.

Just read a comment about Thompson - Thompson's playing career has been put on hold due to pain in his neck.

Thompson, who was forced to retire previously with a neck injury before he resumed playing again for Brive in France, now requires medical advice on the extent of the problem.

Oh dear....thats not good....lets hope that guys ok ...a great servant to English rugby...and i think still our top hooker..

Choices...Hartley, Paice, Webber, Grey.

Thompo looks bad so pretty much discounted for the 6Ns as so should Hartley on poor form alone. The cupboard is looking bare for hookers. We need Lyndsey, Paice, Webber or Grey to step up and quick.

Hope we don't go back to using mears again... good player, but we need youth.

Most of Harlequins' problems in the scrum seem to be on the tighthead side (whether this is down to Marler in some way I don't know). Marler tends to hold his own a bit better from what I've seen.

I'd have Hartley, Grey and another in the squad with Grey probably starting the first game if he does well in training. If Thompson's not available then Paice as he has more experience than the others and Webber has been Poopie from what I've seen.

I think that Rob Andrew is the biggest #2 in English rugby.

I was waiting for something like that. I was expecting something relating to the current England team so good on you for your choice

I would point out that most of Quins penalties conceded in the scrum come through Johnston, he struggles to get good bindings and while being a unit hasn't learnt how to use his power effectively, yet. Marler is better and to me playing even better then he did last season, in particular his discipline is much improved and his work rate around the park immense. Just watch the number of offloads he produces in a game.