Ben Morgan's New Year Dilemma?

First topic message reminder :

Having seen the scarlets - Northampton game on Friday I was very impressed with Morgan. He provided good front foot ball, excellent control and hands and hits like a steam train. He should of course get invited into both the English and Welsh squads however who will he choose? HE's from Bristol and I can't see ex-bristol/england players being very happy if decides to turn welsh in January nor would the majority of England fans. If he does play play for Wales will it stop our Welsh cousins reminding us at every opportunity that our side contains several players who have decided to do the same?

maestegmafia wrote:Considering it is a pretty firm belief that England have one candidate for number eight, the lumbering Nick Easter, you would think that they would clearly be interested in looking at other options. I understand that there is a complicated system of trial and tribulations through EPS and so on to get into the England squad, so I do see your point.

But if you need decent number eights, why not try a few out.

Morgan may have been second fiddle at the Scarlets last season but he was getting plenty of rugby and excelling when given the opportunity, getting heaps of praise from pundits in England and Wales.

That is a belief held by people who aren't aware of the reality. England already had Crane & Narraway in and captaining the Saxons very succesfully, and both first choice captains for their clubs, performing just as well if not better, getting more game time and playing more high level games (first choice for all their HC fixtures).

They wanted to try Morgan out, that's why they offered him the Saxons spot. Trying him out in the senior side, jumping above Saxons players who had earnt more of a right would have had no basis and been unjust.

They also wanted to look at Fearns. He took the Saxons call up this summer and now he's very much in the picture.

HammerofThunor wrote:Don't want him playing for England. It's clear he's going to go for whoever will give him full caps. I'd rather not have a player like that even if they're much better than anyone else.

Good luck to him with Wales. I hope he does well (with Scarlets [and Wales])

A player like what ?

Ashton moved from league to union to 'play on a bigger stage' i.e he wanted more applause and glory and I don't see English fans slating his work ethic

Maestegmafia and Munkian I say it is easier because there are so many players in England who don't get a look in - in the England squad.

You are correct about the conundrum in the centres. It was the England management's incompetence that led to the mercenary centres Flutey and Hape being constantly picked.

It is statistically easier to get into the Welsh squad. Less players available.

For the no 8 Welsh shirt Morgan only needs to get past Faletau for the starting jersey (a 20 year old). Delve will probably be overlooked as usual and Ryan Jones is not that good.

Whose is North's competition for the wing spot?

Cueto has about 6-7 players fighting for his starting wing spot.

Player pool wise Wales have a lot less players.

munkian wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Don't want him playing for England. It's clear he's going to go for whoever will give him full caps. I'd rather not have a player like that even if they're much better than anyone else.

Good luck to him with Wales. I hope he does well (with Scarlets [and Wales])

A player like what ?

Ashton moved from league to union to 'play on a bigger stage' i.e he wanted more applause and glory and I don't see English fans slating his work ethic

True, any player that performs well will win over the fans.

I don't remember seeing Morgan have a poor game as yet.

beshocked wrote:Maestegmafia and Munkian I say it is easier because there are so many players in England who don't get a look in - in the England squad.

You are correct about the conundrum in the centres. It was the England management's incompetence that led to the mercenary centres Flutey and Hape being constantly picked.

It is statistically easier to get into the Welsh squad. Less players available.

For the no 8 Welsh shirt Morgan only needs to get past Faletau for the starting jersey (a 20 year old). Delve will probably be overlooked as usual and Ryan Jones is not that good.

Whose is North's competition for the wing spot?

Cueto has about 6-7 players fighting for his starting wing spot.

Player pool wise Wales have a lot less players.

As if that will be an easy task! He would be more likely to feature for England than Wales imo. Faletau was one of the players of the tournament, while England are looking for someone to make the 8 shirt their own.

Rory gallagher Faletau showed good form in the world cup but will it last? Who knows?

Faletau is still one player - a 20 year old.

I know Wales build up their players but Faletau is still a work in progress.

It's easier to get into the Welsh squad in the first place. Less players to pick from. Only 4 teams instead of 12.

munkian wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Don't want him playing for England. It's clear he's going to go for whoever will give him full caps. I'd rather not have a player like that even if they're much better than anyone else.

Good luck to him with Wales. I hope he does well (with Scarlets [and Wales])

A player like what ?

Ashton moved from league to union to 'play on a bigger stage' i.e he wanted more applause and glory and I don't see English fans slating his work ethic

That's completely different from changing your national allegiance.

Given the opportunity, would you more readily play union for England, or league over union for Wales?

In terms of it being easier for Morgan to get into the Wales squad, I think the point is that although he may not displace Faletau, if he elects to play for Wales he stands a pretty good chance of at least being second choice and getting a fair number of caps, starts and bench spots.

In terms of playing for England he has more candidates he is in competition with and I'd place him around 4th/5th in that list.

beshocked wrote:Rory gallagher Faletau showed good form in the world cup but will it last? Who knows?

Faletau is still one player - a 20 year old.

I know Wales build up their players but Faletau is still a work in progress.

It's easier to get into the Welsh squad in the first place. Less players to pick from. Only 4 teams instead of 12.

Who knows as you say but he has the 8 spot for Wales nailed right now. Also Ryan Jones had a fantastic game against the Aussies at 8. Then there is also Powell. Jonathan Thomas has been playing very well at 8 recently too for the Ospreys. Wales have a lot more depth at 8 than England.

England have Easter right now.. Crane (who would be my choice) is out for the season, though I do rate him a lot and think he has a similar game to Morgan. Then they also have young players who haven't really laid down their claim for the 8 position yet (Fearns etc). I think an extra viable option for 8 would help England more than Wales honestly.

I think Morgan's allegiance to Wales, if he does go that way, will be more down to the fact that the Scarlets have given him his chance to make it, rather than just getting the cold shoulder that he got in England, they've developed him from a semi-pro into a fledgling international, same thing that England did with Dorian West and Dewi Morris.

Will the new English caretake coaches risk un fully capped players in the Six Nations though ?

Exactly Hawalsh. You summarised it better than myself.

Morgan also needs to weigh up the options.

Does he wish to be worshipped like a god by the rugby mad Welsh masses or does he want to find himself in the Sun being photographed alongside Jodie Marsh, Danny Cipriani and Jordan?


Powell lacks a brain. He's like the scarecrow from the wizard of oz.

Ryan Jones is overrated.

Don't know Jonathan Thomas but if he gets overlooked for a 20 year old....

beshocked wrote:Exactly Hawalsh. You summarised it better than myself.

Morgan also needs to weigh up the options.

Does he wish to be worshipped like a god by the rugby mad Welsh masses or does he want to find himself in the Sun being photographed alongside Jodie Marsh, Danny Cipriani and Jordan?


Powell lacks a brain. He's like the scarecrow from the wizard of oz.

Ryan Jones is overrated.

Don't know Jonathan Thomas but if he gets overlooked for a 20 year old....

good grief! give yourself an uppercut right now! shocking post, absolutely shocking, Jodie Marsh and Jordan?

By the way Turkster I meant if he picked England then that might happen to him. Look at Cipriani.

Though obviously Wales had Tango Man, you also have Imogen Thomas,Alex Jones and Katherine Jenkins.

beshocked wrote:By the way Turkster I meant if he picked England then that might happen to him. Look at Cipriani.

Though obviously Wales had Tango Man, you also have Imogen Thomas,Alex Jones and Katherine Jenkins.

yes I guessed you meant that, but have you seen Jodie Marsh these days? She's a body builder now. google her, you'd be shocked.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2045097/Jodie-Marsh-bodybuilder-Star-shows-amazing-new-look-championships.html

I am shocked! This is the link.

Ben Morgan's new dilemma -

Jodie Marsh vs Imogen Thomas.

I can see why he wants to play for Wales.

My EYES!! What has been seen cannot be unseen.

Imogen's a Llanelli lass too, no contest!

Sorry Carpe Diem. You're going to have nightmares tonight.

Not even sure what it has to do with Ben Morgan. Certainly something that would put you off playing for England

Turkster seriously? Even more appropriate! I don't think any of us would want Jodie Marsh anywhere near a rugby pitch or team! Actually more specifically anywhere near us!

Rob Andrew is welcome to her though!

Imogen Thomas may be better looking than the others, but she's just as cheap. Surely he needs to hold out for a pop star, actress/model or princess.

Niwatts it was a joke. I am not going to get into the details of Ben Morgan's ideal partner! Firstly it doesn't interest me. Secondly it has nothing to do with rugby.

Maybe he could go on the Bachelor. He has competition with Cipriani for the next series.

If he wants to play for Wales then best luck to him.

It'd be great for Wales to have Ben Morgan, two outstanding 8's pushing each other for the spot would be great, with Turnbull and Tipuric challenging Warburton for 7 and McCusker and Lewis Evans challenging Lydiate for 6, the future's bright, the even better news is the Scarlets have uncovered another potentially brilliant talent at 8, Kieran Murphy, who's pushing Ben Morgan there.

I wasn't exactly being serious beshocked.

Aye Keiran Murphy looks a good shout too.

Yet to see the hype myself in young Morgan and he can happily chose Wales if he wishes to do so. We've got plenty of young prospects coming through in York, Gray, Wray.

It'll just be another Englishman playing for Wales in the end, nearly half their team is made up of them.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

It'll just be another Englishman playing for Wales in the end, nearly half their team is made up of them.

ey up, here we go again!

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Yet to see the hype myself in young Morgan and he can happily chose Wales if he wishes to do so. We've got plenty of young prospects coming through in York, Gray, Wray.

It'll just be another Englishman playing for Wales in the end, nearly half their team is made up of them.

Coming from a team made up of colonial players thats pretty rich

Wales is a team made up of colonial players.

Just joking by the way.

Turkster wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

It'll just be another Englishman playing for Wales in the end, nearly half their team is made up of them.

ey up, here we go again!

I keep thinking you might not get this kind of baiting from the English lads but they never surprise me. Yawn...! Very boring...

Water off an otters back mm. How many times have you seen Engs residency qualified players getting the ol foriegner jibe? Boring as....

beshocked wrote:Wales is a team made up of colonial players.

Just joking by the way.

That was the grannygate years, but your not allowed to mention that. It never happened........ alright

Breadvan wrote:Water off an otters back mm. How many times have you seen Engs residency qualified players getting the ol foriegner jibe? Boring as....

I am expecting to start hearing a lot of how England a fortunate enough to be responsible for at least half of a brilliandt Welsh team over the next few years.

Of the players in the squad that are likely starters there are a number born in England already. Alex Cuthbert is the next one to get stick when he delivers in the Aussie game.

It was bound to happen when so many English families have moved to Wales.
The kids get into Rugby in Wales, follow Welsh teams and end up wanting to play for Wales, who can blame them?

I just hope he goes with his heart and not his wallet

slartibartfast wrote:I just hope he goes with his heart and not his wallet

I suspect his wallet and plump with Wales or England cast offs as we like to call them.

Yoda wrote:Having seen the scarlets - Northampton game on Friday I was very impressed with Morgan. He provided good front foot ball, excellent control and hands and hits like a steam train. He should of course get invited into both the English and Welsh squads however who will he choose? HE's from Bristol and I can't see ex-bristol/england players being very happy if decides to turn welsh in January nor would the majority of England fans. If he does play play for Wales will it stop our Welsh cousins reminding us at every opportunity that our side contains several players who have decided to do the same?

In a later post you have the cheek to complain about others having double standards.If you read through your post and consider who England have been happy to pick on residency,you may spot a high level of hypocracy.

slartibartfast wrote:I just hope he goes with his heart and not his wallet

All depends if he prefers SA or Tetleys?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

slartibartfast wrote:I just hope he goes with his heart and not his wallet

I suspect his wallet and plump with Wales or England cast offs as we like to call them.

Cast offs? No wonder England are in a mess you give away all your decent players.

Taffineastbourne wrote:

Yoda wrote:Having seen the scarlets - Northampton game on Friday I was very impressed with Morgan. He provided good front foot ball, excellent control and hands and hits like a steam train. He should of course get invited into both the English and Welsh squads however who will he choose? HE's from Bristol and I can't see ex-bristol/england players being very happy if decides to turn welsh in January nor would the majority of England fans. If he does play play for Wales will it stop our Welsh cousins reminding us at every opportunity that our side contains several players who have decided to do the same?

In a later post you have the cheek to complain about others having double standards.If you read through your post and consider who England have been happy to pick on residency,you may spot a high level of hypocracy.

I think you are very confused with what I was saying, I know we have picked on residency I was merely pointing out so do Wales and hence the double standards comment.

Is Ben Morgam actualy qualified for Wales now on residency grounds? Or does he become qualified in the new year?

feb 12 me thinks

Yoda wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:

Yoda wrote:Having seen the scarlets - Northampton game on Friday I was very impressed with Morgan. He provided good front foot ball, excellent control and hands and hits like a steam train. He should of course get invited into both the English and Welsh squads however who will he choose? HE's from Bristol and I can't see ex-bristol/england players being very happy if decides to turn welsh in January nor would the majority of England fans. If he does play play for Wales will it stop our Welsh cousins reminding us at every opportunity that our side contains several players who have decided to do the same?

In a later post you have the cheek to complain about others having double standards.If you read through your post and consider who England have been happy to pick on residency,you may spot a high level of hypocracy.

I think you are very confused with what I was saying, I know we have picked on residency I was merely pointing out so do Wales and hence the double standards comment.

You say that ex-Bristol/England players and the majority of England fans not being happy if Morgan chooses Wales and yet England have happilly taken all sorts for donkey's years.What's good for the goose......

Sorry to rain on everyone's parade but the fact is there's no such thing as a 100% Englishman/Welshman and in any case the welsh/english/scots are drawn in the majority from the same ethnic group of humans. The majority of people in Britain descend from the very 1st group of people to arrive here some 10,000 years ago. Some noteable additions but the gene pool is by and large what we might call - wait for it .... British.

So if Morgan decides to play for England or Wales he'll only be representing a cultural sub-division of a largely homogenous ethnic group.

Having said all that, join your compatriots Anthony Copsey and Rupert Moon in affiliating yourself to a vastly deeper and more ancient culture and play with the spirit of the Ancient Britons naked, covered only in woad, beserk and in full blooded assault on the enemy

Sorry, that could have been some sort of film I was thinking of there