haye v vitali ?

by rycoys Sun 20 Nov 2011, 9:50 pm

First topic message reminder :

whos going if it happens ? i will be after the dissapointment of hamburg ! i belive haye is so much better than the wlad performence ,

by Mind the windows Tino. Mon 21 Nov 2011, 1:03 pm

rowley wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:

I still dont get why he doesnt just have a rebuilding fight. It makes sense both financially to rebuild his stock and fan base, and competitively to stay sharp and work on his gameplan.

The main benefit of this for me would be to convince some of the cynics such as myself that he is looking to take this fight for reasons other than him wanting another payday.

He's probably not though. If he has a guaranteed shot at Vitali then why bother going through a rigorous training camp for a lesser fight that he could feasibly end up losing. I'm not sure how much he cares about his legacy to do this, despite it probably being the right thing to do from a sporting perspective.

Just agree the Vitail fight, hype it up as best he can, and then top up his pension fund. If he wins, he rams all the taunts down everyones throat, if he loses, he is only living down to expectations anyway, and walks away, hopefully, slightly richer than he was before.

by **HumanWindmill** Mon 21 Nov 2011, 1:05 pm

Have to say that I've warmed to Vitali Klitschko over the past few months.

For a long time I was so disillusioned by the motley crew who made up the heavyweight division that I tended to dismiss both Klitschkos as eagles among crows. A while back I decided to watch a few Vitali fights back to back and with an open mind and, while I still don't see him among the elite heavies, I certainly believe him to be in the chasing pack.

Something which struck me which is pertinent to a fight against Haye is just how good he is at cutting off the ring. Like Foreman, we don't immediately associate Vitali with great footwork but, also like Foreman, he has those angles down like a mathematician. A step here and there and his opponent has nowhere to go. Haye, without the textbook skills of blocking, parrying and slipping, will need to burn an awful lot of energy to play hit and run with Vitali.

I don't see it happening, and I think Vitali methodically beats him down for a latish stoppage.

by manos de piedra Mon 21 Nov 2011, 1:05 pm

oxring wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:I think if it ever does happen it will be more of the same and a similar outcome to the Wlad fight.

Haye will probably turn up for the money and play hide and seek. Vitali will control the fight but lacks the finishing skills to get rid of a Haye that is in survival mode.

Given you had a crystal ball on the last fight, I'm not going against you here.

The excitement of this fight will be in how much does Vitali have left. At 40+ father time is well and truly calling him - and there's only so much that a champ can do to stave off.

Maybe Haye gets lucky and comes forward to find Vit has got old overnight and his punch resistance has gone.

However - the last thing to go is a punch - which means Haye comes forward into Vitali's jab - with Vitali's right hand coming over the top. Vitali can punch. For a while he had the highest KO percentage of any HW champ in history.

For me - Haye is too concerned about protecting his chin to go fully balls out and keeps trying to make his smash and grab raids - gets caught a couple of times on the way and plays coy most of the fight.

He never wanted Vitali, remember - he was always always chasing Wlad. He wanted Wlad because he thought that if he landed his booming right it was good night Hamburg - and once wrong there wasn't anything else he could do. Whereas big Vit - he didn't chase nearly as hard. Which should tell us something.

I think the last fight was easier to call to be fair, because Wlad was close to career best form and you could virtually garauntee how he was going to fight.

Its harder to say with Vitali because time is against him and he could approach the fight in a more ways than Wlad. I just think if Haye fights the same way then Vitali isnt enough of a natural finisher to get rid of a Haye that just intends on avoiding him for most of the fight. However Vitali often looks like hes coasting in fights and just enjoying the workout at times so it could be that he an extra gear to call on and if he really hates Haye we see him try to walk him down more ruthlessly than he normally does.

by AlexHuckerby Mon 21 Nov 2011, 1:27 pm

Hmm, get a feeling here if the fight does come off and Haye wins it will all be down to Vitali being old and nothing good that Haye did here...

by **oxring** Mon 21 Nov 2011, 1:28 pm

AlexHuckerby wrote:Hmm, get a feeling here if the fight does come off and Haye wins it will all be down to Vitali being old and nothing good that Haye did here...

Depends how Vitali fights. If he looks no older than he has done recently, Haye gets credit. If he looks about 40 in the ring - then maybe Haye won't get the credit.

by AlexHuckerby Mon 21 Nov 2011, 1:31 pm

you can guarentee if Haye wins due to the dislike of him in the boxing world it will be Vitali being old.

by Mr Bounce Mon 21 Nov 2011, 2:35 pm

On thing I will say; given the big response to this rumour, Haye is still a fighter that is talked about. Love him or hate him, you all still talk about him!

I feel it won't go ahead, but then I bought into the hype that Haye would KO Wlad... Whistle

by SportsmanGC Mon 21 Nov 2011, 4:29 pm

I think this is a no-win fight for both. If Haye wins it's likely Vitali won't fight on much more (or at all), and as Alex alludes to it will be said Vit was past his peak.

Similarly, if Vitali wins then it'll be said Haye was a hype job and didn't have the goods at heavyweight (as the lack of fights and Wlads dominance over him shows).

On saying that, it is still arguably the biggest HW fight out there and so part of me would love to see this...I'm just not sure what importance i'd put on the result though. If this happens and Haye wins...does he stay at HW for a few years and look to unify, or re-retire? I don't see either of them planning to do much after this fight if it did occur, and so for that reason I don't really see it happening just for one more pay day for each of them...neither needs it.

by AlexHuckerby Mon 21 Nov 2011, 4:30 pm

If Haye wins a massive fight is lined up with the rematch of Wlad - Haye.

by Super D Boon Mon 21 Nov 2011, 4:41 pm

Never mind discussion.....let's all join our hands, close our eyes and pray this fight doesn't happen!

by AlexHuckerby Mon 21 Nov 2011, 4:42 pm

Nah I would prefer it if it did to be fair...

by Super D Boon Mon 21 Nov 2011, 4:43 pm

Why? The fight is going to go one way. Even if it doesn't Haye don't deserve the redemption.

by AlexHuckerby Mon 21 Nov 2011, 4:44 pm

Because it's fun being on the hype train.

by **oxring** Mon 21 Nov 2011, 4:47 pm

AlexHuckerby wrote:Because it's fun being on the hype train.

Then get on Fury's!

by AlexHuckerby Mon 21 Nov 2011, 4:50 pm

oxring wrote:
AlexHuckerby wrote:Because it's fun being on the hype train.

Then get on Fury's!

At least Haye has SOME talent!!

by Nico the gman Mon 21 Nov 2011, 5:06 pm

Still think the Klitschko's will have to come up with some serious money for Haye to take the fight, as Haye said up to them or I move on,won't get him in the ring for cherry bobs that's for sure. Vitali may need Haye more than Haye needs him, big payday for Vitali, not much else out there for him to be honest.

Personally don't see Haye just turning up for a pay day he know's he stunk the place out last time, will be looking to try and restore a bit of pride.

by Rowley Mon 21 Nov 2011, 5:54 pm

Not sure I agree Nico, Vitali draws well enough in Germany to earn well for negligible risk, also with Sky appearing to cool on PPV and Haye's stock being so low amongst fans think this assumption that Haye brings mega bucks to the table for this fight may not be one that should be made automatically, because if Haye is reduced to either normal Sky sports, boxnation or Primetime he does not bring anywhere near what he did to the table last time.

by BALTIMORA Mon 21 Nov 2011, 6:27 pm

Hasn't Booth come out (not like that, Alex) and said Haye's been back in training, looked rubbish and can't be bothered?

by Lance Mon 21 Nov 2011, 6:54 pm

joeyjojo618 wrote:Could well be wrong about this, but it seemed to me that Vitali was carrying Adamek during that fight. He hit him with a good right hand early (first or second round, I forget) and I think he could have had him out of there early. But first HW world title fight in Poland and all that.

spot on mate. hes backed by germans, germans dont like short fights and he didnt want another early finish after his last fight.

by azania Mon 21 Nov 2011, 7:04 pm

Super D Boon wrote:Why? The fight is going to go one way. Even if it doesn't Haye don't deserve the redemption.

Vit deserves the payday that only Haye it seems can bring.

by azania Mon 21 Nov 2011, 7:06 pm

rowley wrote:Not sure I agree Nico, Vitali draws well enough in Germany to earn well for negligible risk, also with Sky appearing to cool on PPV and Haye's stock being so low amongst fans think this assumption that Haye brings mega bucks to the table for this fight may not be one that should be made automatically, because if Haye is reduced to either normal Sky sports, boxnation or Primetime he does not bring anywhere near what he did to the table last time.

Regardless, Haye means more money that any other HW out there.

by Lance Mon 21 Nov 2011, 7:13 pm

azania wrote:
rowley wrote:Not sure I agree Nico, Vitali draws well enough in Germany to earn well for negligible risk, also with Sky appearing to cool on PPV and Haye's stock being so low amongst fans think this assumption that Haye brings mega bucks to the table for this fight may not be one that should be made automatically, because if Haye is reduced to either normal Sky sports, boxnation or Primetime he does not bring anywhere near what he did to the table last time.

Regardless, Haye means more money that any other HW out there.

doubt it, Arreola means more money than Haye, hence why hes up again

by azania Mon 21 Nov 2011, 7:21 pm

Lance wrote:
azania wrote:
rowley wrote:Not sure I agree Nico, Vitali draws well enough in Germany to earn well for negligible risk, also with Sky appearing to cool on PPV and Haye's stock being so low amongst fans think this assumption that Haye brings mega bucks to the table for this fight may not be one that should be made automatically, because if Haye is reduced to either normal Sky sports, boxnation or Primetime he does not bring anywhere near what he did to the table last time.

Regardless, Haye means more money that any other HW out there.

doubt it, Arreola means more money than Haye, hence why hes up again

I doubt that. I dont think the Americans rate him.

by manos de piedra Mon 21 Nov 2011, 11:24 pm

Arreola is a mandatory I believe.

by BALTIMORA Tue 22 Nov 2011, 12:07 am

I can't take seriously anyone who's named after part of a nipple.

by Steffan Tue 22 Nov 2011, 12:12 am

BALTIMORA wrote:I can't take seriously anyone who's named after part of a nipple.

Areola

Me neither infact

by Scottrf Tue 22 Nov 2011, 9:43 am

Looks like it's on then.

by AlexHuckerby Tue 22 Nov 2011, 9:52 am

Haye Vit you mean scott, or Vit Arreola?

by Scottrf Tue 22 Nov 2011, 9:54 am

Haye Vitali.

by Steffan Tue 22 Nov 2011, 9:57 am

Any links for this?

by AlexHuckerby Tue 22 Nov 2011, 9:58 am

Are you for real?!

by Scottrf Tue 22 Nov 2011, 9:58 am

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=361336

by Steffan Tue 22 Nov 2011, 10:00 am

Scottrf wrote:http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=361336

Yeah iv seen that already. ESB doesnt count Laugh

by Scottrf Tue 22 Nov 2011, 10:02 am

Counts to me. He called Chisora to pull out and Haye to sign against Wlad while everyone thought the Chisora fight was on.

by Steffan Tue 22 Nov 2011, 10:02 am

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/article-2064336/David-Haye-doesnt-deserve-Vitali-Klitschko-pay-day-says-Emmanuel-Steward.html

Im with Emanuel Steward on this one

by AlexHuckerby Tue 22 Nov 2011, 10:05 am

He doesn't Steward is right, but seeing as he can bring in the money...

by Steffan Tue 22 Nov 2011, 10:10 am

Steward doesnt really say he is totally against the fight...just questions the reasoning behind it. Id still watch it I guess (although I dont wanna pay a fee again) if only to see Haye get a whooping. Vitali wants to knock him out so could be good

by KingMonkey Tue 22 Nov 2011, 10:21 am

Hardly groundbreaking news but I'll not pay for this should it happen.

I'll no doubt get excited again and buy into the hype that Haye can somehow beat Vitali but right now, in the cold light of day and totally sober I don't see how he stands a chance.

by AlexHuckerby Tue 22 Nov 2011, 10:23 am

Already got my hype train hat on.

by KingMonkey Tue 22 Nov 2011, 10:25 am

Wooo wooooooo! All aboard!

*chases hype train down tracks and leaps on at the last minute*

by Steffan Tue 22 Nov 2011, 10:36 am

Looks like the fight will be in Germany again

I wonder how many "fans" make the journey this time after Hayes poor performance last time (gets football top and "Your just a rubbish Ivan Drago" chants ready)

by AlexHuckerby Tue 22 Nov 2011, 10:38 am

Steffan wrote:Looks like the fight will be in Germany again

I wonder how many "fans" make the journey this time after Hayes poor performance last time (gets football top and "Your just a rubbish Ivan Drago" chants ready)

That was pretty hilarious!

by Steffan Tue 22 Nov 2011, 10:40 am

AlexHuckerby wrote:
Steffan wrote:Looks like the fight will be in Germany again

I wonder how many "fans" make the journey this time after Hayes poor performance last time (gets football top and "Your just a rubbish Ivan Drago" chants ready)

That was pretty hilarious!

Cheers

The weigh in was pretty cringeworthy though

by AlexHuckerby Tue 22 Nov 2011, 10:41 am

Cringeworthy!? I loved it, Wlad was clearly a bit suprised at just how loud the place was, he'd never been in such an atmosphere!

by Steffan Tue 22 Nov 2011, 11:06 am

Check out Cotto v Marg weigh in at first fight. Thats awesome. Next one should be good if they allow people in that is when I was at Calzaghe v Jones Jnr they didnt allow the public in at MSG for thw wegh which totally sucked as the Hopkins weigh in was awesome

by Steffan Tue 22 Nov 2011, 11:09 am

alma wrote:In the unlikely event this happens, it can only be because a) Haye has (perhaps unsurprisingly) had absolutely no acting offers whatsoever, and/or b) he's invested all his money in the Greek/Irish/Italian/Spanish stock market........

Must be b). After all he has spent the last 3 years convincing everyone he was something is isnt so acting should be no problem

by Steffan Tue 22 Nov 2011, 11:20 am

alma wrote:Vitali KO6 if it happens

Cant see a KO if im honest. He failed to put Shannon Briggs away and at least Haye is a moving target

by Scottrf Tue 22 Nov 2011, 11:21 am

Shannon Briggs showed an ATG chin and the wefewee should have stopped it.

by Steffan Tue 22 Nov 2011, 11:22 am

Prediction then Scott?

by Scottrf Tue 22 Nov 2011, 11:23 am

Pain.

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