My Five Greatest Heavyweights Contests that Never Happened

There have been many big fights that have semed obvious in boxing but never came off for one reason or another. Looking at the heavyweight division in isolation, here are five big ones that I think would have been great. I have ignored any fights thats have actually happened and concentrated soley on ones which never materialised. The criteria can be quite broad and subjective and may include encounters that would have been explosive, financially massive, historically significant and so on. I am just interested to see what choices others would include and what their thoughts may be on the following clashes that were never to be:

1. Jack Dempsey v Harry Wills

The fight has inherited a somewhat infamous status in boxing history due to the reinstatement of the colour line. Some say the fight has been blown out of all proportions, a stick used to beat a powerless Dempsey and the representation of Wills as a fighter greater than he perhaps was. Others see it as unfinished business between two evenely matched fighters while yet more see it as a convenient casualty of the colour line to protect a popular champ.Personally I think timing is all important for the fight and the Dempsey from 1920 onwards holds the advantage over Wills. Whatever your partiulaur opinion, the truth is we will never know for sure.

2. Jack Dempsey v Harry Greb

Probably a controversial pick in the eyes of many, but its more a glowing appraisal of Grebs ability that I think this fight would have been outstanding. Its perhaps a little easy to dismiss on papaer but given that Greb was reported to have handed Dempsey a bit of thumping in sparring and more than fancied his chances, and when you look at how many of Dempseys actual title defence opponents had already been a victim of the Pittsburgh Windmill then I believe you have an solid foundation for a fight that is both legitimate and has the ingredients for a classic. It may lack the historical significance of a Dempsey v Wills fight but I see it as a potentially much more explosive affair.

3. George Foreman v Larry Holmes

Another fascinating contests between a slugger and a boxer. Two men who fought well into their 40s and whos careers overlapped at various points but never met each other in the ring. Foremans initial retirement in the late 70s possibly robbed us of this contest when it might have been at its ripest and although his loss to Young may indicate Foreman was perhaps not at his best then, its also worth considering that Holmes had only just squeaked by Norton so was probably not at his very best either. A belive a refreshed and remotivated Foreman in the late 70s against a reasonably established but still upcoming Larry Holmes would have been a great match up and mix of styles.

4. Mike Tyson v George Foreman

A contest that was being seriously considered in the late 80s/start of the 90s. Initial skepticism over Foremans return after a decade out of the ring was gradually being eroded as he continued knocking out one opponent after another throughout the 80s showing that while he may not have the same mobility or shape, he had lost none of his power and his more measured approach and bigger bulk seemed to have given increased durability to boot. By the late 80s and early 90s big George had worked his way back into the top heavyweight rankings as a legetimate contender. Unfortunately Tyson himself was not keen on a huge hitting matchup between two men with frightening KO ratios and genuinely seemed to fear big George having grown up watching many of his biggest demolitions on tape. Tyson wanted no part of Foreman and the fight never happened.

5. Lennox Lewis v Riddick Bowe

Another controversial fight that seemed an obvious one at the time. Some believe Bowe genuinely feared Lewis and was still unsettled by their amateur encounter which Lewis won convincingly. Others say the fight was just one of the victims of the 90s circuit that simply didnt make enough financial sense to come off. Whatever you believe, it would have been a great contest between two unbeaten heavyweight giants who had both looked to be in the form of their lives and on an obvious collision course.

I just want to reiterate that I have deliberately discounted fights that actually happened but did happen at the best time or in the best circumstances. For example:

Langford v Johnson
Tyson v Holyfield
Tyson v Lewis
Lewis v Holyfield

All fights which happened of course but for one reason or another were not as significant as they may have been.

klitschko/klitschko - cant argue with any of yours though

Excellent stuff, Colonial, and one has to think that the rich history of the heavyweight division would have been all the better for fights of such magnitude and quality.

I seem to remember a Greb quote (no doubt Windy can find the said quote) where he seemed to play down his chances of beating Dempsey in an official bout. This was made after the reports of the supposed beating Greb handed out during their sparring session(s). Nevertheless, it would have been a cracker at an insane intensity, with the stronger man in Dempsey falling behind on the cards early before catching up with Greb and stopping him late.

Tyson vs Foreman would have been one hell of an intriguing matchup. Both concussive punchers, with Tyson holding the aces in terms of speed and agility, but Foreman holding the size and experience advantage. One mistake from either man could bring about the end of their evening, though I'd back the youthful Tyson to outwork and wear down that version of George, with the possibility of a Foreman KO being ever present.

I've always thought Lewis would have beaten Bowe (yes, even that version of Lennox), and that would have greatly enhanced his legacy you feel. A real shame that this one didn't tkake place, and is perhaps up there with Greb vs Wills in terms of THE fight that should have happened.

My take on the other fights is that Foreman stops Holmes when behind on the cards, and Dempsey beats Wills by KO inside 7 or 8.

Excellent topic - could you give your own views of the outcomes of those fights as well? Be interesting to see.. Will look back and give my own when I get home from work. Keep getting interrupted here.

Can't argue with your list Colonial Lion, couple of fights which I'd like to mention which should've happened and been extremely intriguing, Think Tunney should've fought Sharkey after the long count fight really would've been a pick'um in my opinion, remember one chap named Jimmy on the old 606 site use to name Sharkey as the best heavyweight from the neck downwards a particular phrase which summed Jack up best, terrific talent who could've caused Tunney all sorts of problems.

For sheer entertainment value Foreman v Shavers in the late 70s would've been absolute bombs away and no doubting a potential barnstormer, making Lyle v Foreman looking like a sleepy affair.

Nice article.

AlexHuckerby wrote:klitschko/klitschko - cant argue with any of yours though

This would be great fun. My money would be on Vitali. Wlad may be a bit quicker but he's more negative and I think Vitali is more willing to take one to give one and I couldn't see Wlad taking that one very well.

As for my own thoughts on the outcomes of the above encounters:

1. Dempsey v Wills

As I mentioned, the exact timing of this fight would be important for me. Dempsey was a fighter that improved dramatically in quite a short space of time. Prior to his actualy championship years I would have to favour Wills over a rough and ready Dempsey. However once we get into his championship years I think Dempsey becomes an increasing favourite. Wills is a fighter that I believe is underrated in terms of where he places historically in terms of his record. He got the better of most of the top black fighters of the day. However I believe he is a little overrated in terms of his actual ability because theres no doubt that the timing of his fights against his other black rivals suited him, and I think his threat level to Dempsey has been overplayed. I do believe he was several years past it by the time he was given an awful beating by Sharkey so had he fought Dempsey around then it would have been over quickly so I think the fight really needs to take place around 1920 where both men were close to their best and for Dempsey wins it by KO mid rounds.

2. Dempsey v Greb

Out of all the fights on the list, this would be the one I would like to see most and a win for Greb may have made him the greatest of all time. I see it being a really explosive and frenetic affair and a thrill a second ride. I think Grebs workrate and awkwardness really troubles Dempsey and stifles his room to get his own shots off but in an all swarmer match up I have to think Dempseys power makes the difference and ultimately a great big un beats a great little un as they say. Greb to take the led early until Dempseys size and strength wears him down later on as Greb begins to fade against the bigger stronger man. Possibly goes the distance given Grebs durability but I see Dempsey stopping him late.

3. Foreman v Holmes

Got to go with Larry in this although the fact the fight would occur when both men were probably not at their best deserves some thought. What swings it for me is that we know Larry could take a punch and could recover extraordinarily quickly from the Shavers fight. I suspect he already has the boxing tools to beat Foreman and his ability to to survive big punches as well as box well behind a jab means I think Foreman finds it difficult to score a victory. Perhaps Holmes to win it late after climbing off the canvas in similar fashion to the Shavers fight.

4. Tyson v Foreman

There was a thread done on this a while back and I was surprised at how little chance many gave Foreman given his power. What makes it tricky to decide for me is how Tyson approaches the fight. Stylewise I think it favours Foreman to have Tyson adopt his usual swarming style which means the older slower Foreman does not have to chase and Tyson is repeatedly putting himself in the danger zone of Foremans fists. However there is reasonable grounds to think Tyson feared Foreman so with that in mind would he approach the fight in similar fashion to his other ones? Or would he adopt a more cautious style? My money would be on Tyson outboxing Foreman to a decision in a more cautious fashion to what we were used to as he does his utmost to avoid Foremans power. Would never rule out George but I think my money would be on a Tyson UD.

5. Lewis v Bowe

I have to feel the timing favours Bowe too much in this one. Both were coming off career best performances probably. But Bowe was the more experienced and well rounded pro at this stage. Lewis had not yet ironed out his game or developed under Steward and I get the impression he was something of an accident waiting to happen at this point. Bowe had the neccessary weapons to make the accident happen. I think he was much better on the inside and a little better on the outside too so I see a Bowe KO somewhere mid to late.

Great article, Colonial, and hard to find fault with any of your five selections. Also agree more or less with the outcomes you've put forward, the only exception being that I'd back Foreman to stop Holmes in the late seventies, though I'll happily concede that it's a real pick 'em.

One other I'd offer would be Braddock-Schmeling. Not so much because it was a mouth-watering fight in itself or anything, but more because of the implications it would / could have had on subsequent Heavyweight history, particularly if Schmeling had taken the title back to Germany. We're all well-versed in why the fight didn't happen and who the major players were in making sure that Louis leapfrogged Schmeling, but it always makes for interesting thought all the same.

Have to imagine if Foreman connects on Holmes as Shavers did then the fight is as good as over, may have slightly less power but was a far superior finisher, if he saw a man hurt he didn't let up at all.

Lewis i've always thought beats Bowe regardless of when, too much is made of the Holyfield fights aside from which Bowe never did anything to suggest he could beat a fighter like Lewis.

Dempsey beats both Wills and Greb, neither of whom have the power to dishearten him nor do they have the technical ability of Tunney.

Braddock v Schmeling and Tunney v Sharkey are very good shouts. Have always considered that maybe Tunney retired a little early and we could have sen him in with fighters like Young Stribling (fascinating bout at either heavyweight or light heavyweight), Sharkey (if he turned up switched on and focused) or Schmeling.

Nowadays it seems that Germany has become the home of he heavyweight championship while the Klitschkos rule the division so it would be interesting to see the effect this may have had in an earlier era if Schmeling could have kept it. Especially with Germany boasting several other fine heavyweights such as Walter Neusal, Adolf Heuser and Heinze Lazek in a very competitive German heavyweight scene.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Have to imagine if Foreman connects on Holmes as Shavers did then the fight is as good as over, may have slightly less power but was a far superior finisher, if he saw a man hurt he didn't let up at all.

Lewis i've always thought beats Bowe regardless of when, too much is made of the Holyfield fights aside from which Bowe never did anything to suggest he could beat a fighter like Lewis.

Dempsey beats both Wills and Greb, neither of whom have the power to dishearten him nor do they have the technical ability of Tunney.

Exactly as I see it, Ghosty.

Tyson vs Foreman is only for sadists.....

My top 5...........

Corbett vs Fitz 2 - Corbett was outboxing Fitz before the slats...Interesting to see if he could've got his crown back....

Marciano vs Johansson - Apparently contracts were signed for this one...and it looks like pick em to me..

Lewis v Bowe - Lewis loses before Steward...wins after...

Holy vs Tyson - In 1991 before the incarceration....I pick Tyson..

Johnson vs Dempsey - An old Johnson for sure but what a fight...

Funny you should mention Ingo, Truss. I nearly mentioned him but against Liston, it was a fight that should've happened, Liston had his boxing license revoked which post-poned the match for a while until Liston became the champion. To better prepare for the contest, Johansson decided to take on Brian London as a warm-up fight. After looking very bad against London, he retired.

Would've fancied Liston but Ingo is very underrated and if Liston tried to rush him, Ingo might have stiffened him.

Funny you should think him underrated as I think he was one of the worst heavyweight champions pre-80's........

Liston spanks him for me.....But the Rock and Ingo would be a great matchup...

By the way sorry to hear about that gentleman Gary Speed guy buying the farm.....Seemed a real good guy..

Hope he's not another who tried a sexual experiment and lost his life so lamely....

Think it might be the case..

But RIP and real sorry for his brethren.

I agree Liston probably too powerful but something else we'll disagree on Ingo is quite underrated. At the time when he beat Machen and Patterson he was a geat fighter. Liston would pobably beat him but it would not be a mismatch.He had a lovely busy jab and fought on the defensive.

Yeah I'll echo your sentiments about Gary Speed, strange old one that, seemed a level headed guy, having a successful spell, obviously some demons there gambling, drugs affair?? possibly

Such a shame, RIP sir.

Thing is I don't rate patterson that highly and he beat him twice out of three.....

all about opinions......

Truss, Cribb, good shouts and points with regards to Marciano-Johansson, though I'd like to throw another one involving Marciano in to the ring - him against Valdes, somewhere around 1954.

I say this for two reasons in particular. First off, much gets made of how small a Heavyweight Marciano was. That's true, of course, but oddly enough the one small question mark surrounding his reign as champion is that he didn't beat or even face a genuine Heavyweight as we commonly know them, ie a true 200 lb or more, 6 foot plus fighter who'd campaigned as a Heavyweight from the off. Valdes certainly fits that description.

Another reason it interests me is due to the (alleged) reluctance on Al Weil's part to make the fight happen when Valdes was ranked the number one contender by the NYSAC in 1954 / 1955. Marciano is said to have been keen on the fight, but Weil apparently thought that the big Cuban was all wrong for Rocky and represented too much of a threat. Would have been interesting to see whether his concerns were unfounded, or if he indeed was right to be weary.

Johansson - Marciano was being made.......Who wins...

Three fights I would have liked to have seen all involving Joe Frazier.

Frazier v Shavers. Could Shavers have dropped the bomb on Joe just like Foreman did?

Frazier v Norton. For me, the least exciting of the three but I'd like to have seen it.

Frazier v Holmes. This fight the longest shot of all as Joe retired in 76 and Holmes only came to prominence in 78.

Cant really argue with any of those picks although Id have to say I think Tyson v Foreman would be fairly one sided. The proverbial punchers chance for big George but in all honesty I think he is the one more in danger of being stopped than Tyson is assuming we are talking about Foreman in his second coming.

I think Foreman v Holmes is the toughest of the lot to call. I would be fairly confident of Dempsey, Tyson and Bowe winning the others but see a 70s clash between Holmes and Foreman as 50/50 fight, perhaps leaning towrds Larry gun to head.

Foreman early or Larry late...

Frazier v Shavers. Could Shavers have dropped the bomb on Joe just like Foreman did?

usually i don't like fantasy fights involving shavers as his poor chin means its hard to see him doing well in may mat ups, but given the way frazier faired against foreman, this would be interesting

Frazier v Norton.

Nice mention for Johnson Langford, this is one that as always fascinated me and think I am in a slight minority here in thinking this is a genuine pick em. Is a difficult fight to call because Johnson's opposition was so ordinary during his reign is probably fair to say we rarely saw him get out of second gear and he probably had a lot more to give than he did in many a defence.

However we must balance that against the widely accepted view that Sam was holding himself back in many a fight and by the time he should have got a title shot against Jack he had vast experience of fighting heavies and had the fight happened between 1908-1912 when it should have he was in white hot form, reguarly fighting and beating the likes of Jeannette and Mcvea. Genuine pick em for me and way too close to call.

Naz vs Hatton - around 2009 (Obviously 'between fights' Hatton) winner gets to eat a very large curry just to get them both up for it.

Most of the ones I'd like to have seen made have already been posted, but one that we didn't see was Chuvalo vs Cooper.

I read a lot about how Cooper's management didn't want the fight seen as Chuvalo basically couldn't be dented and Cooper was relatively light.

Not sure how likely it was but I also read Marciano considered a comeback during the Patterson/Liston reigns. Would have been interesting to see him up against one of them. (Patterson's speed and skill, or Liston's power and jab).

Agree with your outcomes except the Foreman/Holmes and Lewis/Bowe.

For Foreman/Holmes - I was rather surprised how often the very limited Cooney landed on holmes - especially to the body and even more surprised at how long he stayed in range in front of a very static Cooney. Just feel that the brutish Foremans own jab, hook and right hand landed half as much then Holmes is in big Trouble. Also the Foreman that totalled Norton didn't waste much punches - I think he gets a Tko after decking him a few times. Foreman decked people using only arm punches sometimes and the frequency of his blocked punches backing up good fighters - just leads me to believe that Foreman catches him just a few too many times and gets either a late TKO or a UD. Also after spending all night watching and rewatching Holmes fights amongst others - I change my view of a Tyson-Holmes fight to a Tyson TKO.

Instinctively, I feel the aggressive version of Lewis wins and it seems as if Lewis was hyped up for this one. When Lewis imposed himself on a fight he was frighteningly good. A cautious Lewis gets beaten comfortably I think - Bowe with superior skill figures out Lewis and nicks some rounds on cleaner hitting and combos. An aggressive Lewis - puts the hurt on Bowe and lets him know that he has to come and take him out - If it degenerates into a brawl then Bowe's skills go out the window and he gets TKO.

Lewis late TKO/UD just because of the bad blood between em at the time.

A note regarding the Old Foreman - There seems to be this view of the old Foreman just throwing a few punches and teeing up fighters then knocking em out - no doubt the Foreman-Moore legendary nights episode is the chief source for this sort of thinking. A Tyson-Foreman fight goes the same way as a Holyfield fight only a little more comfortable because Tyson fights a little less front on. He wants to stay out of range and pop in and out before Foreman can get his own punches off. Foreman catches him a few times but not as often as he did Holyfield. This is Tyson the boxer. If Tyson goes in past rounds 3-4 as aggresively as he does the first rounds then I gie Foreman a 50-50 on the sheer concussive force of his punches and Tysons lack of a proper bob and weave past round 4. I guess its a long winded way of saying Tyson wins unless Foreman knocks him out but I think thats just oversimplifying it.

Nathan - I have Marciano by late KO against Patterson and Liston by Late Tko or UD over Marciano on account of his vicious jab and general power backed by that massive reach.

Atila - I think Frazier beats both Norton and Shavers - Foreman knocked him down 6 ties and he got back up. Guts in spade and enough wherewithal to see himself through rough patches. Norton's tendency to fold to punchers sees him lose this as well. Frazier hits him often enough and clean enough to dispose of him mid rounds after narrowly losing 4 out of 6 rounds.

Frazier - Holmes. Does that stiff jab keep him off - can Joe slip that jab and land that left hook often enough to count? God knows - an absolute gem of a fight and one I couldn't call either way.

Klitschko Vs Klitschko - not a pretty fight but one well worth the watch - Two boxers who know each other very well one a superior boxer - quicker jab and enough force to make people think twice about chancing that right hand in their face. The other a tough brawler who take more risks and throws the heavier punch and also is surprisingly good at cutting off the ring. IF forced to pick I'd pick Vitali for a late TKO.