Ulster in Crises ?

by geoff998rugby Mon 28 Nov 2011, 9:09 am

First topic message reminder :

To answer my own question. Not yet, quite, but very very close.

A defeat in any of the next three matches would make it one.
A lose to Scarlets and it would be 6 out of 7 in the Pro 12 and down to 9th or 10th - probably below Connacht
A lose to Aironi and HC and Amlin over and losing to the worst team in the competition.

There are obviously serious coaching issues. Doak is pants as a backs coach but he is popular and part of the cosy old boy network.
Muller is a fine captain and a good leader - he has shown no signs of being a forwards coach
Bell as defensive coach - ditto re old boy network
Longwell - in charge of the academy with zero coaching skills
No front row coach
McGlock at the top is an excellent technical coach but with such a poor team is doomed

The whole set up is too cosy - bullits up backsides is required. The above cant/wont deliver that.

Also the blazer are showing signs of incompetance.
No plans to change the above team for next year at the moment and also an assumption that a few high profile signings are a cure all - there not.
I am not talking Humph or Logan here but the committee that appointed them. The maleovant Voldermort aka Cedric Wilson still pulls strings. The man is an odious toad who has been playing local politics to the detriment of Ulster rugby for years. There are signs that Humph and Logan are coming into conflict with the blazers as to the way forward.

On to the players - we have a handful of big names. Payne, Muller, Afoa, Ferris, Best, Trimble and Pienaer who are able to stand up and be counted. The rest follow. Without those 7 we are spineless. Too many who dont take the responsibility they should given their experience e.g Court, Tuohy, Wallace, Danielli, Humphreys, Wannenberg, Diack.
I'll absolve Cave, Henry and Marshall who are giving their all in very trying circumstances.

This failure to stand up and be counted is detremental to the development of our younger players who will go backwards if not handled properly.
I was struck by the freedom and enjoyment I say in NOC and TJ's performance for Connacht recently. They were not highly strung nervous wrecks as they were most times at Ulster. I wonder why ?
Another ex player who has shown what can be done is Roger Wilson. In the last 2 Saints games I have seen him play he has been magnificant. Outside of the big three (literally) - Ferris, SOB and Heaslip he is Irelands best back row forward (in fact his performances have been better than Heaslip and in a totally, superior, league to Leamy). Henry could be that good if handled properly.

It seems to me that Ulster do not put players out of their comfort zone and as a result when the pressures on they crack. Its too easy at Ulster. We survice because we have a handful of players who have gone to the next level because of their own drive and because of their experiences elsewhere.

Very depressing thumbsdown

I needed to get that off my chest.

by geoff998rugby Mon 28 Nov 2011, 1:39 pm

on the 7 thing - just being the best 7 in Ireland is not enough.

If you are short of International clas there is no point picking a player.

David Wallace has masked the fact that Ireland lack an International class 7.
O'Connor not good enough
Jennings not good enough
Faloon not good enough

That is why losing Pollock was such a blow.
From what I have seen O'Mahoney looks the best prospect.
However he, and others, have a long way to go to justify droping one of the big three - Heaslip, SOB and 1F. I expect Ireland to play without a natural 7 for at least a couple of years.

by **Notch** Mon 28 Nov 2011, 1:43 pm

red_stag wrote:
Artful_Dodger wrote:
red_stag wrote:Whats changed from last year. Remember all those "Ulster are gonna rule the international team" thread.

McAllister, Annett, Tuohy, Faloon, Jackson, L.Marshall, Spence, Gilroy etc were tossed about as future Ireland greats. Just as it was a bit exaggerated last year is it really that bad now?

As I see it, injury and abense of players has hit a side with little depth badly. Good 1st XV though.

I really dont recall anyone saying any of those players had anything other than potential, I certainly dont remember anyone saying Faloon or Annett were going to be a future Ireland greats.

Right about having great strength but very little depth though.

Faloon definitely was mentioned pointing out he is a true 7 etc. Annett won a lot of admirers when he captained Ireland U20s.

You're pretty much right.

Tuohy could be awesome. He doesn't come across as being really arsed in some games. If he played like he did against Clermont and Leicester every game he'd be an international for sure. We don't see that level of performance from him in the Pro12 often enough for me to really warm to him. I still think McAllister will be a great player, he's been unlucky this season with injuries preventing him getting on the pitch after a good start.

I think some people are guilty of exaggerating the depth of our problems as much as exaggerating the quality of our players right now. Faloon, for example, is a useful squad player at Ulster albeit probably not quite good enough to hold down a provincial jersey as first choice. Ditto Adam D'Arcy, Declan Fitzpatrick, Robbie Diack etc. These are the players we've been relying on.

Then we have a number of very talented young backs who need experienced heads and a good coach around them to progress. This is the main concern of the other fans and one I share.

I suspect we will improve considerably as the season wears on but our start may have cost us very dearly this year. Prediction for me right now is a 5th/6th place finish in the league and a runners-up spot in the HC.

by geoff998rugby Mon 28 Nov 2011, 1:50 pm

The Great Aukster wrote: Geoff I share your frustration, but a lot of what you're saying has little foundation.

Really which bits ?
I have answered some of your points below

The Great Aukster wrote: For example the Ulster Academy has been producing good young players proving ready to make the step up. It is when the youngsters come under the control of the senior coaches that they start to stall.

. I think, in so many words, that is what I said. The only point of debate is Gary Longwell. It is my understanding he plays little or no part in the actual development of players. He runs and picks the Ravens.

The Great Aukster wrote: I agree with Rodders that the scrum has been doing well considering that Ulster has been without their three main looseheads for most of the season.

I agree that has been a big blow. My worry is that we have no scrum coach this year - who is going to coach Fitzpatrick, Macklin, Black and MCAllister. Court and Afoa are not equipped.

The Great Aukster wrote: AFAIK Johnny Bell's primary role is as a defence coach and that is one area that Ulster have been strong.

That is a fair point and I debated whether or not to include Bell or not.

The Great Aukster wrote: There's nothing wrong with "jobs for the boys" if the boys prove to be capable. Successful clubs throughout Europe are filled with ex-players coaching them - would Matt Sexton be seen as anything different?

Trouble is most of them arn't capable. Sexton has been away some time and would bring in fresh ideas. One thing is for sure he would be better than no scrum coach at all which is where we are now. Also given he latest job he is highly regarded elsewhere.

The Great Aukster wrote:
Having said all that the elephant in the room is quite obvious and has been largely ignored - Ian Humphreys isn't Test class, or at least not often enough.
Flyhalf is the one position in the team where Ulster don't have a Test player when everyone is fit, yet it is the most critical position in the fifteen! Supposedly the IRFU blocked Ulster signing Nick Evans before he signed for Quins, and Ulster had to make do with baby Humph. At his best he wins games but he is too inconsistent to win trophies. Until Ulster either sign or produce a more consistent playmaker they won't consistently make plays that execute a gameplan, so how are coaches supposed to deal with that?

Agree with that - how would I suggest they deal with ? - play Ruan at 10 with Jackson on the bench.

by Rory_Gallagher Mon 28 Nov 2011, 1:56 pm

geoff998rugby wrote:on the 7 thing - just being the best 7 in Ireland is not enough.

If you are short of International clas there is no point picking a player.

David Wallace has masked the fact that Ireland lack an International class 7.
O'Connor not good enough
Jennings not good enough
Faloon not good enough

That is why losing Pollock was such a blow.
From what I have seen O'Mahoney looks the best prospect.
However he, and others, have a long way to go to justify droping one of the big three - Heaslip, SOB and 1F. I expect Ireland to play without a natural 7 for at least a couple of years.

POM doesn't look like a natural 7 though, but more of a 6/8.. which we already have plenty of. I still actually think Faloon could be good enough, but once again he is being mistreated in the Ulster setup. He really hasn't had a chance this season, and I was really impressed by him over the weekend. Would love to see him paired up with Ferris and Henry, which imo would be our best backrow with the 3 of them playing in their best positions. I think it was Geoff who mentioned how Henry could get to where Roger Wilson is now, who is probably the best 8 right now at Ireland's disposal. Henry does remind me quite a bit of Wilson.

by red_stag Mon 28 Nov 2011, 1:58 pm

There's no way that Wannenburg isn't in your best XV

by geoff998rugby Mon 28 Nov 2011, 2:02 pm

Actually I think there is:
Ferris is a better 6
Faloon is a better 7
and Henry is out performing him - agreed a close call but Henry's work rate shades it for me.

Rory not quite sure I would say Wilson is the best Irish 8 - I think that is SOB but I do agree that of those actually playing 8 he is in the best form (including Heaslip)

by red_stag Mon 28 Nov 2011, 2:03 pm

Really? Thats a big boost for Ulster if you have someone like him as a backup.

by **rodders** Mon 28 Nov 2011, 2:04 pm

Notch wrote:
I think some people are guilty of exaggerating the depth of our problems as much as exaggerating the quality of our players right now.

Or perhaps there has been no exagerration at all? Maybe we do simultaniously both have very good and extremely talented players as well big problems on an off the pitch?

Certainly we are not performing to the sum of our parts and questions need to be asked. Maybe the problem is a few week links in key positions, like ihumph, or maybe there is something more endemic with our coaching.

Either way we need to turn things around quickly or this season will pass us by.

by Rory_Gallagher Mon 28 Nov 2011, 2:05 pm

I would agree it is SOB atm, but he isn't really being played at 8. Wilson is an out and out 8, same as Heaslip.

And really stag? He has been pretty poor this season. Reminds me a bit of Powell actually. He is pretty one dimensional. Why do you think he needs to start? I think Henry's best position is 8 also.

by 1F'sgonnagetya! Mon 28 Nov 2011, 2:06 pm

I wouldn't mind seeing a backrow of 1F, Faloon and Henry. I really would like to see Faloon given ago over a few games. We can't expect him to not play for a while and then have a stormer.

Wannenburg has played in nearly every game I think. Wannenburg needs a rest.

by Rory_Gallagher Mon 28 Nov 2011, 2:06 pm

And wow, you can really see all of our frustrations with Ulster this season.. something has to change.

by red_stag Mon 28 Nov 2011, 2:07 pm

I suppose Im really basing it off last season where I felt he was excellent. To me he offers great go-forward ball and was instrumental in your two pronged attack on Europe and Celtic League.

by **rodders** Mon 28 Nov 2011, 2:07 pm

red_stag wrote:Really? Thats a big boost for Ulster if you have someone like him as a backup.

You would think so stag, wouldn't you.....

by Rory_Gallagher Mon 28 Nov 2011, 2:08 pm

Agreed Stag, which is why I compared him to Powell.. great one season where he broke tackles for fun, then is found out. He doesn't make half as much ground as last season. I think Henry offers a lot more.

by red_stag Mon 28 Nov 2011, 2:08 pm

Your first XV could still do well in Europe but not getting the losing bonus was a real death knell IMO.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 28 Nov 2011, 2:16 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:And wow, you can really see all of our frustrations with Ulster this season.. something has to change.

You beat Clermont 2 weeks ago! Stop being a drama queen!

by **rodders** Mon 28 Nov 2011, 2:19 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:And wow, you can really see all of our frustrations with Ulster this season.. something has to change.

You beat Clermont 2 weeks ago! Stop being a drama queen!

Stop being so feckin positive! Laugh

Read the thread man this is a crisis!!

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 28 Nov 2011, 2:41 pm

I think if you beat Glasgow on Friday you would not be having this thread conversation! Wink

Fact of the matter is better teams than Ulster have come to Glasgow and not won this year Ospreys and Bath to name 2 of them.

Just 2 weeks ago you guys rolled the French champions in a very hard fought battle at Ravenhill.

All you Ulster lads need to take a breath, calm down and recognise that you have a good Squad and match day 22. Capable of being extremely competative and capable of beating the best Europe has to offer (Clermont being the best recent Example)

However when/if you missfire you can't go branding it a crisis!

by Standulstermen Mon 28 Nov 2011, 2:41 pm

red_stag wrote:
Artful_Dodger wrote:
red_stag wrote:Whats changed from last year. Remember all those "Ulster are gonna rule the international team" thread.

McAllister, Annett, Tuohy, Faloon, Jackson, L.Marshall, Spence, Gilroy etc were tossed about as future Ireland greats. Just as it was a bit exaggerated last year is it really that bad now?

As I see it, injury and abense of players has hit a side with little depth badly. Good 1st XV though.

I really dont recall anyone saying any of those players had anything other than potential, I certainly dont remember anyone saying Faloon or Annett were going to be a future Ireland greats.

Right about having great strength but very little depth though.

Ah now Stag be fair. The one talking up Faloon the most on here was yourself. Tuohy still could get more caps but no one ever thought he would be a great. McAllister still looks like the longterm challenger to Healy, Gilroy looks good whenever he gets ball (which is all to rarely) and his defence looks a lot better,. The midfield trio of Spence, Marshall and Jackson hasnt been used well imo. The use of spence as our backup 12 has imo been a catastrophe. We have taken a guy with bags of potential and turned him into a smaller James Downey.

The disuse of Marshall except when Cave was injured was idiotic imo. He was thrown in with a backline of 20 year olds and despite being our biggest threat was then jettisoned to the point he hasnt even been registered in the HEC squad

Jackson will get the games in the latter half of the season hopefully.

I do think things are that bad Stag. Next season should have been one where we were looking to signifcantly challenge in europe. It could be reduced to being a rebuilding year if our form continues. A lot depends on December.

Faloon definitely was mentioned pointing out he is a true 7 etc. Annett won a lot of admirers when he captained Ireland U20s.

by Standulstermen Mon 28 Nov 2011, 2:48 pm

geoff998rugby wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote: Geoff I share your frustration, but a lot of what you're saying has little foundation.

Really which bits ?
I have answered some of your points below

The Great Aukster wrote: For example the Ulster Academy has been producing good young players proving ready to make the step up. It is when the youngsters come under the control of the senior coaches that they start to stall.
. I think, in so many words, that is what I said. The only point of debate is Gary Longwell. It is my understanding he plays little or no part in the actual development of players. He runs and picks the Ravens.

The Great Aukster wrote: I agree with Rodders that the scrum has been doing well considering that Ulster has been without their three main looseheads for most of the season.
I agree that has been a big blow. My worry is that we have no scrum coach this year - who is going to coach Fitzpatrick, Macklin, Black and MCAllister. Court and Afoa are not equipped.

The Great Aukster wrote: AFAIK Johnny Bell's primary role is as a defence coach and that is one area that Ulster have been strong.
That is a fair point and I debated whether or not to include Bell or not.

The Great Aukster wrote: There's nothing wrong with "jobs for the boys" if the boys prove to be capable. Successful clubs throughout Europe are filled with ex-players coaching them - would Matt Sexton be seen as anything different?
Trouble is most of them arn't capable. Sexton has been away some time and would bring in fresh ideas. One thing is for sure he would be better than no scrum coach at all which is where we are now. Also given he latest job he is highly regarded elsewhere.

[.

This is my issue with our coaching set up. Where are the fresh ideas coming from. Every coach has only got Ulster experience to fall back on

by Rava Mon 28 Nov 2011, 2:48 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I think if you beat Glasgow on Friday you would not be having this thread conversation!

Fact of the matter is better teams than Ulster have come to Glasgow and not won this year Ospreys and Bath to name 2 of them.

Just 2 weeks ago you guys rolled the French champions in a very hard fought battle at Ravenhill.

All you Ulster lads need to take a breath, calm down and recognise that you have a good Squad and match day 22. Capable of being extremely competative and capable of beating the best Europe has to offer (Clermont being the best recent Example)

However when/if you missfire you can't go branding it a crisis!

Radge, don't take it (Glasgow) personally. It would have been the same if Hawick FP had beaten us. Please let us have our wallow in the Poopie.
I know 10 points against Aironi, three consecutive Rabo wins and the destruction of Leicester will only paper over the cracks and when we don't get a try bonus win against ASM we will all be back here debating the crisis.

by clivemcl Mon 28 Nov 2011, 2:54 pm

Aukster, you may have highlighted the most simple way to dramatically change our fortunes. Is it time to use Ruan at out-half and play our best options in each position. Marshall is better at scrum-half than humph is at out half at the minute. So it has to to be humph losing out to a returning Ruan?

Anyone agree?

by Standulstermen Mon 28 Nov 2011, 2:56 pm

Yeah this isnt a slight on Glasgow but they were muck on friday as well and we still couldnt beat them.

Crisis is maybe a bit strong actually but we have the best team we have had for many many years. A great captain. Top class players in Pienaar, Best, Afoa etc and this must be capitalised on. Our attendances are still down on last season despite last year being as successful as we have had in a decade. If we dont make the most of having Pienaar, Muller, Payne, Ferris, Best in our ranks and at the top of their game (certainly in 4/5 of their cases) then it will be a catastrophe

by Standulstermen Mon 28 Nov 2011, 3:00 pm

clivemcl wrote:Aukster, you may have highlighted the most simple way to dramatically change our fortunes. Is it time to use Ruan at out-half and play our best options in each position. Marshall is better at scrum-half than humph is at out half at the minute. So it has to to be humph losing out to a returning Ruan?

Anyone agree?

I would rather see Pienaar, Jackson, Wallace or Pienaar, Wallace, Marshall

at least in the Pro12

by **rodders** Mon 28 Nov 2011, 3:02 pm

clivemcl wrote:Aukster, you may have highlighted the most simple way to dramatically change our fortunes. Is it time to use Ruan at out-half and play our best options in each position. Marshall is better at scrum-half than humph is at out half at the minute. So it has to to be humph losing out to a returning Ruan?

Anyone agree?

Sort of yes.

I'd be inclined to give IHumph two games max to turn his form around and then if he doesn't I'd be looking at other options. I agree Marshall is playing better at 9 than IHumph is at 10 so that would be the 1st option I'd look at.

What do people think off Paddy Wallace at 10? He's getting on a bit and perhaps he is mature enough now to finish his career at 10 if he was given a run?

I'm not writing IHumph off but it very hard to close games out at the minute he is so erratic with his form.

by Artful_Dodger Mon 28 Nov 2011, 3:04 pm

Past experience would tend to suggest that when Humphreys loses form like this, he needs dropped before he finds his form again = I think he should be dropped for a couple of games.

by geoff998rugby Mon 28 Nov 2011, 3:05 pm

It is true that if we beat Scarlets and Aironi twice things will calm down but the fact is we have boxed ourselves into a corner where we simply must win the next three games to stay competitve in the two competions.

The frustration I have, and I think others share, is we have a handful of genuine world class players, we have a crop of outstanding youngesters both of which suggest we should be doing much better than we are.

Unfortunately this is combined with glaring weaknesses in some positions and some questionable coaching.

Makes for much frustration.

Great input by all by the way - its good to talk Smile

by clivemcl Mon 28 Nov 2011, 3:07 pm

Is he suffering from the pressure? I remember him doing a lot more high rsik stuff last season and quite often it went well. wee chips etc.. Last season I would be out of my seat frequently, this season i could watch an entire game without seeing any glimpse of excitement...

Crying or Very sad

by MrsP Mon 28 Nov 2011, 4:46 pm

Geoff,

What role has Cedric Wilson at Ulster Rugby?

Who is this committee of which you speak?

Not doubting you by the way, just don't know who they are.

by Rava Mon 28 Nov 2011, 4:46 pm

I share all your frustrations guys but I don't yet think there is a crisis.
I do believe we have punched above our weight somewhat during the last year and a half. Unfortunately many of my co-fans want to run before walking. We have 7/8 very good players, some journeymen and several good and promising youngsters. That adds up to a very competitive unit when everyone is fit for selection. It does make being competitive very difficult when 5/6 of the vg players are injured/unavailable or rested.

I have already said I am not comfortable with the local coaching staff and their ability to take us to the next level. I just hope Humphreys sen. has recognised this and will do his utmost to address it.

Whilst I agree Danielli has been poor since he returned from the WC, I think it is unfair to let him shoulder so much of the blame for the team performances. Without our "leaders" we lack confidence and drive. That is what we should be concentrating on. I agree with the earlier comment though, it is time the coaching staff sorted the "problems" they are so good at highlighting after each poor performance.

by formerly known as Sam Mon 28 Nov 2011, 4:54 pm

Supposedly the IRFU blocked Ulster signing Nick Evans before he signed for Quins

If you believe the rumours at that time Nick Evans was talking to half the clubs in Europe. He had reportedly done a deal with Tigers who were also negociating with Hernandez. Evans got wind and cancelled the proposed deal as he was frustrated with Tigers who had him as the back up in case the Hernandez deal fell through (which it did but only after Evans had signed for Quins).

Humphries seems to be a bit of a scapegoat for you boys, I think the main problem for Ulster is that you are to relient on Paddy Wallace being fit. Without him in the midfield you have no players to create anything other than Humphries. A creative full back who could come into the line and offer a play maker further out or as a first receiver on the blind side would be worth his weight in gold to you.

by **rodders** Mon 28 Nov 2011, 4:59 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:A creative full back who could come into the line and offer a play maker further out or as a first receiver on the blind side would be worth his weight in gold to you.

You aren't Geordan Murphy's agent by any chance.... Run

by Standulstermen Mon 28 Nov 2011, 5:01 pm

Sam

We actually do have a midfield playmaker. Possibly the best young prospect in Ireland, certainly in Ulster. He isnt being selected though and has had a broken jaw. That being said i do agree we badly miss Paddy Wallace. He is massively underrated for Ulster and Ireland. I do think Luke Marshall will be better mind you as he wont/shouldnt be thrown about into different positions for most of his career

by **Notch** Mon 28 Nov 2011, 5:17 pm

He's bang on lads. It's exactly what I've been saying about our midfield for yonks.

by The Great Aukster Mon 28 Nov 2011, 6:19 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Humphries seems to be a bit of a scapegoat for you boys, I think the main problem for Ulster is that you are to relient on Paddy Wallace being fit. Without him in the midfield you have no players to create anything other than Humphries. A creative full back who could come into the line and offer a play maker further out or as a first receiver on the blind side would be worth his weight in gold to you.

Ulster bought a creative fullback in Jared Payne who is unfortunately out for the season.

Humphreys is just too inconsistent as either a playmaker or a playexecutor. He'll knock a kick over from halfway and miss one in front from the 22. Sometimes he'll zip an incisive pass timed perfectly and another time he'll loop an easy intercept - I won't mention his defence. He is what he is and it can make for exciting and excruciating watching, but it is guaranteed not to be good enough over a whole season to actually win anything.
Until the coaches/management actually address the real problem, Ulster will swing from heroes to zeroes every couple of weeks.

by Feckless Rogue Mon 28 Nov 2011, 6:35 pm

But the IRFU runs the whole show here and they don't want a non-Irish player playing at 10 for Ulster. So I think you're stuck with Humph until there's a better Irish alternative..

by Rava Mon 28 Nov 2011, 8:41 pm

What about if Leinster give us Madigan. Sure we'll not stand in the way of Tommy Bowe signing for you as a favour. Whistle

by Rory_Gallagher Mon 28 Nov 2011, 8:42 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I think if you beat Glasgow on Friday you would not be having this thread conversation!

Fact of the matter is better teams than Ulster have come to Glasgow and not won this year Ospreys and Bath to name 2 of them.

Just 2 weeks ago you guys rolled the French champions in a very hard fought battle at Ravenhill.

All you Ulster lads need to take a breath, calm down and recognise that you have a good Squad and match day 22. Capable of being extremely competative and capable of beating the best Europe has to offer (Clermont being the best recent Example)

However when/if you missfire you can't go branding it a crisis!

Don't get me wrong I was delighted with our win against Clermont.. and we should have beat Glasgow, and if we did I would be happier but there are still the same problems. My main problem with Ulster right now is the lack of creativity in the backs, and the fact our younger players seem to be going backwards due to bad management.

by The Great Aukster Mon 28 Nov 2011, 9:34 pm

Feckless Rogue wrote:But the IRFU runs the whole show here and they don't want a non-Irish player playing at 10 for Ulster. So I think you're stuck with Humph until there's a better Irish alternative..

Why would the IRFU care if a NIQ 10 plays for Ulster when they allowed Contepomi to play at Leinster? What good does it do the IRFU to insist Ulster play Humphreys when they know he will never be Ireland flyhalf? It's not as if McKinney or Jackson will learn anything from him so surely Ulster would be better with someone who can make Ulster competitive and at least the rest of the young backline wouldn't suffer under such a draconian dictat.

by Rava Mon 28 Nov 2011, 9:57 pm

The latest piece from the "Whiff of Cordite" blog. Talking our language, I think -

What's the hell is going on at... Ulster

Concern is growing for Ulster after another meek defeat in the AAA-Bank12. A feeble 17-9 defeat left them empty handed from their trip to Glasgow, and leaves them 8th in the table, just 2 points ahead of Connacht and nine points behind the team in fourth place, which happens to be Glasgow.
It's a worrying state of affairs for a team that finished third in what looked to be a breakthrough season last time around. Last year's Ulster were characterised by the number of tight victories they squeezed out, many of them won late in the day by Ruan Pienaar; this year's model look to have lost that ability. They are, admittedly, missing the ice-veined Suthifrikan, who is currently injured. Another being badly missed is Jared Payne, the outstanding Kiwi signed to play full-back, who is out for the season. Their troubles began in losing three in a row during the World Cup, amid a general sense that their much vaunted youngsters hadn't quite grasped their opportunity, and they just haven't got going at all yet.
The Glasgow match was the second week in a row that Ulster were in the game for the most part (the previous one being Leicester), before losing a try late in the day. This time it was due to poor alignment and organisation, with Trimble allowing a gap for David Lemi to breeze into. It's also Ulster's second week in a row without a try, and their attack is becoming an issue. For a team with a relatively heralded backline, their attacking play has been littered with errors; poor passes, dropped ball, and little or no cutting edge in the opposition's 22.

Marshall is a good scrum half, albeit not in the Pienaar class, and with a tendency to box kick too often (well, he is an Irish scrum half, so what's new?). iHumph will never be everyone's cup of tea, but he is at least an inventive touch player. In the absence of Paddy Wallace (recovering from a broken finger), the centre combination of Spence and Cave is full of hard running, but it's all a bit boshtastic - they miss the subtlety that Paddy brings to their game. Andy Trimble has plenty of gas and power outside them, but he's spending his time trying to step through heavy traffic - someone needs to try and put him into some space.

A backline often lives and dies by the backrow in front of it - after all, you could have Ma'a Nonu and BOD in midfield, but if you can't get them any quick ball, they would look ordinary. Casting a glance over Ulster's loose trio, it does look as if this is where their problems lie. Ferris is outstanding, but all of Diack, Wannenberg, Henry or Falloon are in the 'decent but not great' category. More often than not, the Ulster backrow looks imbalanced, with three contact-magnets trying to bosh their way through midfield. They look better when Faloon, a good link man, plays well, but he needs to start performing with a bit more consistency.

The Heineken knock-outs look a step beyond Ulster this year (it probably requires them to beat Leicester 4-0 at home and get something from the trip to Clermont), and the Magners League playoffs look a long way off at the moment. Ospreys are showing no sign of letting up, Leinster and Munster will surely stay in the top four, Glasgow are going well and Scarlets look to be up and running with all their internationals back. It has all the hallmarks of being a(nother) disappointing season up north.

by **rodders** Tue 29 Nov 2011, 9:16 am

Rava wrote:They look better when Faloon, a good link man, plays well, but he needs to start performing with a bit more consistency.

Thats a big point I think. Faloon was critical to our attack last season. Most of our best attacking performances came when we had a backrow or Ferris, Wannenburg and Faloon.

Unfortunately hes not hitting the heights he was last year or at least he's not getting the chance to.

IHumph is a big problem as has been aluded to. He's almost like a 7's player at times and can be very creative. However his game management does let him down at times.

Wallace is missed but we had problems even when he was there. Our backplay against Clermont was awful at times.

Missing Pienaar and Payne is a big blow but I don't think it is an excuse for how poor we have been. If we are that reliant on Pienaar to function I'd be pretty worried.

There is a whole plethora of reasons why we are not clicking in attack I think but ultimately the buck stops with McGlaughlin.

by formerly known as Sam Tue 29 Nov 2011, 9:29 am

You aren't Geordan Murphy's agent by any chance

He doesn't need one, he'll have a contract at Tigers until he retires and when he retires he'll be offered a contract as backs/skills/youth team coach.

Ulster bought a creative fullback in Jared Payne who is unfortunately out for the season

That is unfortunate. Do you hold much hope that his replacement will be able to deliver any of the required creative abilities?

by geoff998rugby Tue 29 Nov 2011, 9:38 am

MrsP wrote:Geoff,

What role has Cedric Wilson at Ulster Rugby?

Who is this committee of which you speak?

Not doubting you by the way, just don't know who they are.

Mrs P think of it this way - a set of blazers appointed Logan and David Humphreys. I am not that up to speed with the mechancis but essentially this is done by a committee made up of club representatives and other individuals for the Ulster rugby provincial set up. Cedric Wilson has been, for whatever reason, the most powerful voice on that committee.

by **rodders** Tue 29 Nov 2011, 9:38 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Ulster bought a creative fullback in Jared Payne who is unfortunately out for the season

That is unfortunate. Do you hold much hope that his replacement will be able to deliver any of the required creative abilities?

Stefan Terblanche has been signed to replace him so we will see how he does. The other specialist 15 is Adam D'arcy who does offer plenty in attack but there are question marks over his defence.

We've been playing Simon Danielli there recently and hes been a disaster in attack and defence imo.

by geoff998rugby Tue 29 Nov 2011, 9:42 am

As I said at the start I don't think it is a crises...............yet

However make no mistake if we lose any of the next three games it will be.

Lose to Scarlets and we will be:

- probably 10th in the league
- behind Connacht
- be on a run of 6 defeats in 7 Pro12 games

Lose to Aironi would destroy all chances of European qualification and raise the possibility of finishing bottom of the group behind the worst team in the competition.

It is is not a crises...yet but we have put a hell of a lot of pressure on ourselves for the coming weeks

by funnyExiledScot Tue 29 Nov 2011, 2:57 pm

roddersm wrote:We've been playing Simon Danielli there recently and hes been a disaster in attack and defence imo.

Any Scotland fan could have told you that Danielli at 15 would be a disaster. He is a specialist winger and nothing else. He's the rugby equivalent of a goal hanger in football. He's lazy but has a knack of knowing where to be and which lines to take to find the try line. He's a good finisher and a strong runner, but lazy in defence and his hands can really let him down at times. Did I mention he can't kick a rugby ball or pass?

Not a player to give you confidence from 15. Leave him on the wing or bench him. Don't play him anywhere else.

by Standulstermen Tue 29 Nov 2011, 6:47 pm

I agree with you that Danielli does pick decent lines but unfortunately i think he no longer has the pace to find his way to the try line. To my mind he offers little or nothing at the minute and i say that knowing full well that Ulster have got their moneys worth out of him and he has given his all for Ulster.

by Don Alfonso Tue 29 Nov 2011, 7:50 pm

I don't care where we finish up as long as we start stringing together good performances, scoring tries and growing as a team. You win the Pro12 on the basis of your squad, the HEC on the basis of your best 23. We have a very tough pool in the HEC. There's lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth, comparing us to Munster and Leinster, and how we're not in the same league. They are way ahead, but Munster failed to get out of their HEC group last season, and they seem in pretty rude health now. Every team stutters, every team gets things right in a series of steps. Are we really gong to go from 8th to winning the Pro12 in two seasons?

We have a great first 23. So that's one step along the path to World Domination.

I agree we need better coaching (with potentially some coaches remaining and some being replaced). We also need a stronger squad, which hopefully will develop as Marshall, Jackson, Gaston, McAllister, Macklin et al progress. We have a tiny squad, especially with Payne out for the whole season.

I'm bitterly disappointed about our recent results, but let's remember that there is a long way to the end of the season yet.

by The Great Aukster Tue 29 Nov 2011, 8:27 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:We have a great first 23. So that's one step along the path to World Domination.

We may have a great 23 but unfortunately it doesn't include a flyhalf.

by Rory_Gallagher Tue 29 Nov 2011, 8:34 pm

I was talking to a girl who works in SS Moores in town, from NZ, who lived with Dan Carter for 2 years. I shall see if she can attract Carter here also Wink

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