Who will be behind the Hayemaker!?

First topic message reminder :

I said before that it would be a shame if Haye retired he still has so much to offer. Now it looks like Haye is back! Who will be behind him? I cant wait for this fight with Vitali I will be firmly supporting Haye. I think the British public should get behind him again we want a British heavyweight world champion dont we!? Haye will have learned from his last fight make no mistake about that and we all know he has the tools to beat Vitali who is old and slow now and far too easy to hit. My prediction? Haye to KO Vitali in round 6! Too much speed and power for Vitali and too much skill. I think Haye will bring an end to the Klichkos reign. Dont get me wrong, the Klichkos have been good champs but they are boring and have been ruining heavyweight boxing for far too long. Vitali should have stayed retired and let Wlad unify and Wlad should have retired after that the division would be so much better and the Klichkos reputation would be better. But I truly believe Haye is the man to do this now he is the most exciting heavyweight out there and has the charisma to get people back interested in boxing. I hope the British public and media realise this everyone deserves another chance and Haye deserves MASSIVE credit for coming back to take such a challenging fight. So in March who will you be supporting?? Will you be getting behind the Hayemaker again??

Having just seen a rant from a woman on a tram I'm informed Haye isn't English, so will be cheering on Vitali.

prettyboykev wrote:Fists I don't want him KO'd for being English. I just don't have the patriotic urge to support him like I would with a Scot. I will be supporting Froch and Khan so I'm not totally anti English.

A Pole and a Pakistani?

and a spy from the pacquiao camp

Haha, fair enough Kev!

Think some people on here are being harsh on Haye. This fight will bring out the best in him. He will have learned from his last fight lots of fighters have lost but learned from it and come back stronger. Vitali is old now people need to realise he is slow and easy to hit. Haye will have far too much speed. Vitali has never beaten someone of Hayes quality imo. My prediction will be Vitali will come out and try and KO Haye but he will leave himself open. Haye will use his speed and power to land on Vitali and will KO him in the 6th or 7th round. Wlad will have no choice but to fight him again but his confidence will be low after seing his brother knocked out I would not be surprised if he tried to duck the fight.

I agree the Klichkos have been good champions but Haye is right they have been the most boring heavyweight champions of all time probably and they are killing boxing. Boxing needs champions like Haye to get people interested. Lets give Haye credit for trying to do this and for taking on the biggest fights. He deserves alot of credit for taking on the biggest challenges.

Do you want to buy some magic beans Waingro?

No point rowley - I think he's already on hayes beanstalk

Waingro wrote:Think some people on here are being harsh on Haye. This fight will bring out the best in him. He will have learned from his last fight lots of fighters have lost but learned from it and come back stronger. Vitali is old now people need to realise he is slow and easy to hit. Haye will have far too much speed. Vitali has never beaten someone of Hayes quality imo. My prediction will be Vitali will come out and try and KO Haye but he will leave himself open. Haye will use his speed and power to land on Vitali and will KO him in the 6th or 7th round. Wlad will have no choice but to fight him again but his confidence will be low after seing his brother knocked out I would not be surprised if he tried to duck the fight.

I agree the Klichkos have been good champions but Haye is right they have been the most boring heavyweight champions of all time probably and they are killing boxing. Boxing needs champions like Haye to get people interested. Lets give Haye credit for trying to do this and for taking on the biggest fights. He deserves alot of credit for taking on the biggest challenges.

There has been no evidence of vitali being on the slide and there is certainly no evidence to suggest he will leave himself open. The guy has an iron chin anyway I don't think Haye has the power to stop him.

Barman! One of what that bloke is drinking please.

Waingro wrote:Think some people on here are being harsh on Haye. This fight will bring out the best in him. He will have learned from his last fight lots of fighters have lost but learned from it and come back stronger. Vitali is old now people need to realise he is slow and easy to hit. Haye will have far too much speed. Vitali has never beaten someone of Hayes quality imo. My prediction will be Vitali will come out and try and KO Haye but he will leave himself open. Haye will use his speed and power to land on Vitali and will KO him in the 6th or 7th round. Wlad will have no choice but to fight him again but his confidence will be low after seing his brother knocked out I would not be surprised if he tried to duck the fight.

I agree the Klichkos have been good champions but Haye is right they have been the most boring heavyweight champions of all time probably and they are killing boxing. Boxing needs champions like Haye to get people interested. Lets give Haye credit for trying to do this and for taking on the biggest fights. He deserves alot of credit for taking on the biggest challenges.

Just wondering Waingro, what prediction did you give for the Haye/ Wlad "Klichko" fight?

Come on Vitali!!!!

Haye showed in his fight against Wlad that he is Euro level at best.

He stepped up to the elite and was easy thrown back down to the likes of Fury, Chisora etc who could have done the same job that Haye did on the likes of Harrison, Valuev etc.

Haye: World class con artist.

Vitali: World class fighter.

Come on Vitali!!!!

A bit of reverse jingoism there from DeeMcK.

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:Haye showed in his fight against Wlad that he is Euro level at best.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

Waingro wrote:Think some people on here are being harsh on Haye. This fight will bring out the best in him. He will have learned from his last fight lots of fighters have lost but learned from it and come back stronger. Vitali is old now people need to realise he is slow and easy to hit. Haye will have far too much speed. Vitali has never beaten someone of Hayes quality imo. My prediction will be Vitali will come out and try and KO Haye but he will leave himself open. Haye will use his speed and power to land on Vitali and will KO him in the 6th or 7th round. Wlad will have no choice but to fight him again but his confidence will be low after seing his brother knocked out I would not be surprised if he tried to duck the fight.

I agree the Klichkos have been good champions but Haye is right they have been the most boring heavyweight champions of all time probably and they are killing boxing. Boxing needs champions like Haye to get people interested. Lets give Haye credit for trying to do this and for taking on the biggest fights. He deserves alot of credit for taking on the biggest challenges.

Just wondering Waingro, what prediction did you give for the Haye/ Wlad "Klichko" fight?

I thought Haye would knock Wlad out but I give Wlad credit he fought a good fight. I still think Haye can beat him though he was not at his best that night and I think he needed to chang his tactics but we all know he has the quality to beat either brother I just think he needs the right gameplan and imo Vitali is the easier of the two to beat. I think he will beat Vitali and then fight Wlad in a rematch.

Lets not forget that Wlad was knocked out in his career were people telling him to retire? No he came back and won so whats stopping Haye? We all know he has the skills I just hope people get behind him and give him the support to carry on it would be a shame if he retired as he is one of the only heavyweights out there who is entertaining.

I just thought I would spice up the debate.

How about a poll

David Haye - Euro or World level?

Waingro wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:

Waingro wrote:Think some people on here are being harsh on Haye. This fight will bring out the best in him. He will have learned from his last fight lots of fighters have lost but learned from it and come back stronger. Vitali is old now people need to realise he is slow and easy to hit. Haye will have far too much speed. Vitali has never beaten someone of Hayes quality imo. My prediction will be Vitali will come out and try and KO Haye but he will leave himself open. Haye will use his speed and power to land on Vitali and will KO him in the 6th or 7th round. Wlad will have no choice but to fight him again but his confidence will be low after seing his brother knocked out I would not be surprised if he tried to duck the fight.

I agree the Klichkos have been good champions but Haye is right they have been the most boring heavyweight champions of all time probably and they are killing boxing. Boxing needs champions like Haye to get people interested. Lets give Haye credit for trying to do this and for taking on the biggest fights. He deserves alot of credit for taking on the biggest challenges.

Just wondering Waingro, what prediction did you give for the Haye/ Wlad "Klichko" fight?

I thought Haye would knock Wlad out but I give Wlad credit he fought a good fight. I still think Haye can beat him though he was not at his best that night and I think he needed to chang his tactics but we all know he has the quality to beat either brother I just think he needs the right gameplan and imo Vitali is the easier of the two to beat. I think he will beat Vitali and then fight Wlad in a rematch.

Just wondering with the fact that you have been duped once do you not think that you could be duped twice?

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:I just thought I would spice up the debate.

How about a poll

David Haye - Euro or World level?

Mate Haye is world class no doubt about it he won the heavyweight world title and is an all time great cruiser how is that not world class!!??

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:I just thought I would spice up the debate.

How about a poll

David Haye - Euro or World level?

You can't honestly mean this can you?

Waingro wrote:

but we all know he has the quality to beat either brother I just think he needs the right gameplan and imo Vitali is the easier of the two to beat.

Why do we all know this? What has he shown us at heavyweight to make us all believe this, when has he demonstrated any adaptability, genuine knock out power or the kind of work rate that would secure him a points victory was the KO not to come. Get sick of people constantly telling us Haye is quality or is some great shakes up at heavy when he does the square root of sod all in the ring to suggest this is the case.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

Waingro wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:

Waingro wrote:Think some people on here are being harsh on Haye. This fight will bring out the best in him. He will have learned from his last fight lots of fighters have lost but learned from it and come back stronger. Vitali is old now people need to realise he is slow and easy to hit. Haye will have far too much speed. Vitali has never beaten someone of Hayes quality imo. My prediction will be Vitali will come out and try and KO Haye but he will leave himself open. Haye will use his speed and power to land on Vitali and will KO him in the 6th or 7th round. Wlad will have no choice but to fight him again but his confidence will be low after seing his brother knocked out I would not be surprised if he tried to duck the fight.

I agree the Klichkos have been good champions but Haye is right they have been the most boring heavyweight champions of all time probably and they are killing boxing. Boxing needs champions like Haye to get people interested. Lets give Haye credit for trying to do this and for taking on the biggest fights. He deserves alot of credit for taking on the biggest challenges.

Just wondering Waingro, what prediction did you give for the Haye/ Wlad "Klichko" fight?

I thought Haye would knock Wlad out but I give Wlad credit he fought a good fight. I still think Haye can beat him though he was not at his best that night and I think he needed to chang his tactics but we all know he has the quality to beat either brother I just think he needs the right gameplan and imo Vitali is the easier of the two to beat. I think he will beat Vitali and then fight Wlad in a rematch.

Just wondering with the fact that you have been duped once do you not think that you could be duped twice?

Enlightening doesnt strike the same place twice

All time great cruiser, right up there with the best Police Academy film.

rowley wrote:

Waingro wrote:

but we all know he has the quality to beat either brother I just think he needs the right gameplan and imo Vitali is the easier of the two to beat.

Why do we all know this? What has he shown us at heavyweight to make us all believe this, when has he demonstrated any adaptability, genuine knock out power or the kind of work rate that would secure him a points victory was the KO not to come. Get sick of people constantly telling us Haye is quality or is some great shakes up at heavy when he does the square root of sod all in the ring to suggest this is the case.

But Haye is quality imo

ShahenshahG wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:

Waingro wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:

Waingro wrote:Think some people on here are being harsh on Haye. This fight will bring out the best in him. He will have learned from his last fight lots of fighters have lost but learned from it and come back stronger. Vitali is old now people need to realise he is slow and easy to hit. Haye will have far too much speed. Vitali has never beaten someone of Hayes quality imo. My prediction will be Vitali will come out and try and KO Haye but he will leave himself open. Haye will use his speed and power to land on Vitali and will KO him in the 6th or 7th round. Wlad will have no choice but to fight him again but his confidence will be low after seing his brother knocked out I would not be surprised if he tried to duck the fight.

I agree the Klichkos have been good champions but Haye is right they have been the most boring heavyweight champions of all time probably and they are killing boxing. Boxing needs champions like Haye to get people interested. Lets give Haye credit for trying to do this and for taking on the biggest fights. He deserves alot of credit for taking on the biggest challenges.

Just wondering Waingro, what prediction did you give for the Haye/ Wlad "Klichko" fight?

I thought Haye would knock Wlad out but I give Wlad credit he fought a good fight. I still think Haye can beat him though he was not at his best that night and I think he needed to chang his tactics but we all know he has the quality to beat either brother I just think he needs the right gameplan and imo Vitali is the easier of the two to beat. I think he will beat Vitali and then fight Wlad in a rematch.

Just wondering with the fact that you have been duped once do you not think that you could be duped twice?

Enlightening doesnt strike the same place twice

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:I just thought I would spice up the debate.

How about a poll

David Haye - Euro or World level?

You can if you want to look like a mong.

Waingro wrote:we all know he has the quality to beat either brother

Evidently, I have a lot to learn.

Waingro what is this mythical "quality" that you speak of all the time, what precisely do you mean when you say the word quality.

Scottrf wrote:Having just seen a rant from a woman on a tram I'm informed Haye isn't English, so will be cheering on Vitali.

How awful was that??! She's been arrested but doubt she'll get charged with anything, certainly nothing incurring a decent penalty. She looked either drunk or on drugs too, that poor little kid on her lap should be taken away, she's a disgrace and needs a good hiding.

Charge her with incitement to racial hatred.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Having just seen a rant from a woman on a tram I'm informed Haye isn't English, so will be cheering on Vitali.

How awful was that??! She's been arrested but doubt she'll get charged with anything, certainly nothing incurring a decent penalty. She looked either drunk or on drugs too, that poor little kid on her lap should be taken away, she's a disgrace and needs a good hiding.

Who the chuff are you on about?

AlexHuckerby wrote:Waingro what is this mythical "quality" that you speak of all the time, what precisely do you mean when you say the word quality.

450 posts and he's still never been able to answer that question Alex so I wouldn't hold your breath!

alma wrote:

Being an 'all time great cruiser' means absolutely nothing. Beating a 35 year old Mormeck and Maccarenelli means very little I'm afraid....

Got to agree, any division that has Johnny Nelson comfortably and deservingly in its all time top ten does definitely suggest the strength of depth has not traditionally been that great.

I'm not saying who I'm rooting for but put it this way he's not from London!

To save you all a lot of trouble.

1. Haye's HW resume is lacking.
2. Yes, but that's because the division is poor, Haye is class.
3. When has he proved it.
4. At Crusierweight.
5. But not at HW.
6. There's no one at HW to make him prove it.
7. What about Povetkin, Dimitrenko, Boytsov, Helenius
8. You must be joking. Haye would whip those clowns
9. He hasn't proved that - with Audley Harrison and an ancient Ruiz.
10. That doesn't matter, he's tied into those fights for his belt. You're a hater.

Repeat ad nauseam/ad glass of whiskey and a revolver

For those of you disgusted by the racist rant earlier - here's something that never fails to lift my mood.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urmNgoad2ys

Scottrf wrote:

rowley wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

rowley wrote:Don't like the man Fists, am not going to ignore that because he was born on the same lump of planet as me. Also quite like both the brothers, carry themselves with a bit of dignity and class.

Vitali is a drugs cheat though.

Was and am unaware of that, any details?

Thrown of the Ukrain amateur team for steroid abuse.

There's a lot of stuff that says he got caught out through neglect and stupidity more than purposefully cheating. It's not like he's fat James Toney or anything or Evan Fieilds for that matter!

alma wrote:

Waingro wrote:

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:I just thought I would spice up the debate.

How about a poll

David Haye - Euro or World level?

Mate Haye is world class no doubt about it he won the heavyweight world title and is an all time great cruiser how is that not world class!!??

Being an 'all time great cruiser' means absolutely nothing. Beating a 35 year old Mormeck and Maccarenelli means very little I'm afraid....

And winning the title against easily the worst heavyweight champion in god knows how many years.

Barrett, Valuev, Ruiz, Harrison. Hardly the wins of a proven world class heavyweight. When he stepped up to world class he got humiliated and blamed the loss on his little toe.

Which part of all this is supposed to convince me that Haye is world class, so yes I'm deadly serious. What class does this heavyweight record belong? It certainly isn't the stuff of kings.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/boxing/2389404/Boxing-Klitschko-admits-steroid-abuse.html

Quite believable really. Although you'd have thought they'd have got him a TUE (except, of course, you can't get retrospective TUEs).

Yeah - he used it unwittingly in some injury recovery formula after doing his leg in before the olympics.

Super D Boon wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

rowley wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

rowley wrote:Don't like the man Fists, am not going to ignore that because he was born on the same lump of planet as me. Also quite like both the brothers, carry themselves with a bit of dignity and class.

Vitali is a drugs cheat though.

Was and am unaware of that, any details?

Thrown of the Ukrain amateur team for steroid abuse.

There's a lot of stuff that says he got caught out through neglect and stupidity more than purposefully cheating. It's not like he's fat James Toney or anything or Evan Fieilds for that matter!

Neglecting to not use banned substances? Jones' case is a lot more legit.

i'll always support a brit! I'll be backing haye... although I don't expect him to win. The british way is support the underdog!

Am a Sheffield lad so can't bring myself to have a dig at Johnny but his prescence in the top ten does tell you everything you need to know about cruiser.

oxring wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/boxing/2389404/Boxing-Klitschko-admits-steroid-abuse.html

Quite believable really. Although you'd have thought they'd have got him a TUE (except, of course, you can't get retrospective TUEs).

Every sprinter that gets caught blames it on cough medicine, schlong enhancer etc. How many athletes say 'hands up, you caught me'?

Scottrf wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

rowley wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

rowley wrote:Don't like the man Fists, am not going to ignore that because he was born on the same lump of planet as me. Also quite like both the brothers, carry themselves with a bit of dignity and class.

Vitali is a drugs cheat though.

Was and am unaware of that, any details?

Thrown of the Ukrain amateur team for steroid abuse.

There's a lot of stuff that says he got caught out through neglect and stupidity more than purposefully cheating. It's not like he's fat James Toney or anything or Evan Fieilds for that matter!

Neglecting to not use banned substances? Jones' case is a lot more legit.

Getting something from a doctor and not checking it - or getting something from a known drug peddler and not checking it...?

I'm a Haye fan but to say that there is no-one out there to prove his worth at HW against is simply not true.

Povetkin, Arreola, Adamek are all competitive fights for him and worth watching. Beat those and then take on a K; fine, well done mate. The fact that he has neglected those and gone straight for Wlad, now Vit, indicates he wants the cash, nothing else.

Theres a fair bit of nonsense being written about Haye here. All this vague undefineable "quality" and "skill" he supposedly possess. What is it?

I maintain that the closest, and in some ways only relevant, fights Haye has had with regards to Vitali are the Wlad and Valuev fights. Wlad beat him comfortably. Haye beat Valuev, but not easily or particulalry impressively in the context of someone many here are claiming has masses of speed and power and of course "quality" and "skill". If Haye was as good as some are making out he would have beaten Valuev to a near shut out from the outside and won alot more rounds in decisive manner.

Theres almost nothing in those two fights to get your hopes up for Haye beating Vitali let alone knocking him out. Im not naive enough to rule it out completely - Im just looking at it on balance. Outside of this magic extra level I believe Haye has yet to show us, his best hope appears to rest with the theory Vitali is past it. He is definately sliding but a 40 year old Vitali is still alot better than a 40 year old Valuev who as I say, Haye didnt beat in impressive fashion. I think its normal to assume Vitali is not as good as he was 5/6 years ago but I dont think hes nearly as hittable or slow as people think. He is easiER to hit than Wlad but that doesnt make him easy to hit. He is slowER than Wlad but again not neccessarily slow. He faster than Ruiz and Valuev and far harder to hit than that pair. He also has other strengths that Wlad doesnt have to make him a difficult opponent in other areas.

The other thing is this idea that we must get behind Haye, the world needs Haye, Haye is exciting and so on. Not for me Im afraid. I think he is a pretty boring heavyweight in general. Not neccessarily his fault as he has a style that works best for him. But realistically if you look past the Sky marketing campaigns and Hayes own bluster has his in ring exploits at heavyweight been exciting? Harrison was a joke. The ref had to tell both fighters to actully throw a punch at one point. Valuev was boring as hell (not neccessarily Hayes fault) and the Klitschko fight was also. Ruiz was entertaining enough for what it was, but carried no significance. Ruiz was a past it mandatory effectively.

I am a pretty big skeptic of Haye at this stage. I dont believe anything he says basically and from a boxing fan perspective I dont trust his motives. I see no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt on the basis of what hes done so far. To me this looks it could just be a retirement fight for both fighters. A last cash out before retirement while they still have the chance. Theres nobody left for Vitali. His mandatory is Arreola a guy with no chance of beating him who he has destroyed already. Hes involved in politics in his own country. He has a family. Hes getting old. Haye represents a decent cash fight and I suspect he would like to KO Haye out on a personal level. Hayes reputation cant sink much lower so he has almost nothing to lose taking this fight (and the money). If he loses again it doesnt really matter. Im suspicious that any fighter who genuinely wanted to give himself the best chance of winning and who was taking the fight for reasons other than purely financial would approach it like Haye has. No attempt to rebuild at all. 2 years after his last meaningful win. 9 months out of the ring. Is this preparation wise?

The best hope for the fight being a success is if Vitali really just wants to decimate Haye and Haye really wants redemption so we see caution being thrown to the wind by both fighters. I think this is too optimistic sadly and the more likely scenario is Haye reduced to survival mode again with Vitali just controlling the fight.

ShahenshahG wrote:Getting something from a doctor and not checking it - or getting something from a known drug peddler and not checking it...?

Jones's was an over the counter supplement, only banned by 1 commission, and he wasn't involved with Conte.

manos Haye can't afford to throw caution to the wind and go for Vitali he will get sparked out. I think this is harder than Wladimir because Vitali won't just be happy to dominate behind his jab he will look to hurt Haye and can do so at range with his straight right hand something Wladimir was to cautious to throw allowing Haye to look more in the fight because he never took a beating..

Waingro, are you Haye's (inept) PR man?



emancipator

I dont think Haye can afford to do what he did against Wlad or Valuev. He has to take more risks. Even if Vitali does prove to be easier to hit, are Hayes single digit counters per round going to be enough to win the fight? I wouldnt say so.