Who will be behind the Hayemaker!?

by Waingro Tue 29 Nov - 9:26

First topic message reminder :

I said before that it would be a shame if Haye retired he still has so much to offer. Now it looks like Haye is back! Who will be behind him? I cant wait for this fight with Vitali I will be firmly supporting Haye. I think the British public should get behind him again we want a British heavyweight world champion dont we!? Haye will have learned from his last fight make no mistake about that and we all know he has the tools to beat Vitali who is old and slow now and far too easy to hit. My prediction? Haye to KO Vitali in round 6! Too much speed and power for Vitali and too much skill. I think Haye will bring an end to the Klichkos reign. Dont get me wrong, the Klichkos have been good champs but they are boring and have been ruining heavyweight boxing for far too long. Vitali should have stayed retired and let Wlad unify and Wlad should have retired after that the division would be so much better and the Klichkos reputation would be better. But I truly believe Haye is the man to do this now he is the most exciting heavyweight out there and has the charisma to get people back interested in boxing. I hope the British public and media realise this everyone deserves another chance and Haye deserves MASSIVE credit for coming back to take such a challenging fight. So in March who will you be supporting?? Will you be getting behind the Hayemaker again??

by spencerclarke Thu 1 Dec - 21:25

aye may as well, but really wish he had a few contender fights first to earn it and prove he is good enough at the weight. not really gonna make himself any fans this way. Plus surely it's a bigger fight if i can take some others out first.

by monzon Thu 1 Dec - 21:56

Neither.

I'd struggle to think of a more boring fight involving a world level opponent.

by Waingro Thu 1 Dec - 22:12

spencerclarke wrote:aye may as well, but really wish he had a few contender fights first to earn it and prove he is good enough at the weight. not really gonna make himself any fans this way. Plus surely it's a bigger fight if i can take some others out first.

What is the point of fighting other contenders most of them are jokes and tbh they are not in Hayes class. He would get no credit for beating them people would say it means nothing and say he was ducking Vitali. Haye is fighting the biggest challenge Wlad said he would not give Haye a rematch so Haye is fighting his brother Vitali who many think would destroy Wlad. Haye desrves massive credit for taking this fight who should he fight instead?

by spencerclarke Thu 1 Dec - 22:28

well given the choice i would rather him calling it a day now. i like haye but this just looks like he's there for the cash. he hasn't really proven he is a class above the other contenders. As you say a lot are bums but they are bigger than haye and his fights at heavyweight don't look too good now.

by **88Chris05** Thu 1 Dec - 23:43

Waingro wrote:What is the point of fighting other contenders most of them are jokes and tbh they are not in Hayes class.

So you keep telling us. Doesn't matter that they have beaten just as many - in some cases even more - credible Heavyweights as Haye. Doesn't matter that a few of them have taken on the Klitschkos with a lot more purpose and guile than Haye did. Doesn't matter that many of them earned their mandatory status by actually beating similarly-ranked Heavyweights, rather than just talking their way in to the forefront of Heavyweight boxing by making ridiculous comparisons between themselves and men such as Joe Frazier, Rocky Marciano and Joe Louis like Haye did.

No no, you're right. Haye's demolition of the mighty John Ruiz and Audley Harrison is proof enough of his devine right to fight only the Klitschkos and nobody else. Haye being 'exciting' (which basically means he's got a big gob and is a reliable source of a daft quote, rather than actually doing anything exciting in the ring) means he automatically is put in a class of his own. I feel stupid that I didn't realise this.

by **oxring** Thu 1 Dec - 23:52

88Chris05 wrote:
Waingro wrote:What is the point of fighting other contenders most of them are jokes and tbh they are not in Hayes class.

So you keep telling us. Doesn't matter that they have beaten just as many - in some cases even more - credible Heavyweights as Haye. Doesn't matter that a few of them have taken on the Klitschkos with a lot more purpose and guile than Haye did. Doesn't matter that many of them earned their mandatory status by actually beating similarly-ranked Heavyweights, rather than just talking their way in to the forefront of Heavyweight boxing by making ridiculous comparisons between themselves and men such as Joe Frazier, Rocky Marciano and Joe Louis like Haye did.

No no, you're right. Haye's demolition of the mighty John Ruiz and Audley Harrison is proof enough of his devine right to fight only the Klitschkos and nobody else. Haye being 'exciting' (which basically means he's got a big gob and is a reliable source of a daft quote, rather than actually doing anything exciting in the ring) means he automatically is put in a class of his own. I feel stupid that I didn't realise this.

So you should Chris.

This is Waingro's hype train - and he seems to be the only one aboard at the minute. Even Haye's granny doesn't support him as vociferously.

by Rowley Fri 2 Dec - 7:48

Spot on Chris, the natural assumption some seem to have that Haye is a country mile in front of all other contenders in the division is currently battling it out with the idea he is delivering excitement to the division as the thing that irritates me most about this whole debate. Is a damned close run thing though.

by JDandfries Fri 2 Dec - 9:28

No suggestion that he is really any good at Heavy, no real excitment, despite what people might think, and most of all, he is no better than the likes of Sam Peter, Chris Areola, Thomas Adamek, Kevin Johnson, Eddie Chambers, etc etc, because he had performed just as meekly against a K Brother.

He is most definately after another pay day, and should really be fighting another contender or two first, the like of Arreola, Adamek, Dimintrenko, Povetkin, Solis, Hellenius etc, would give him perhaps some confidence, if he could win, and maybe some of teh public back on side if he could actually manage to go about it in a dignified way!

by Rowley Fri 2 Dec - 9:31

JD would also add there would be a massive benefit to Haye in getting in some competitive rounds, whilst I realise not too many of the guys really mirror either brother stylistically would help in terms of confidence, learning how to pace a fight and trying something other than the tactics that have been proven to fall short last time out.

by JDandfries Fri 2 Dec - 9:36

As much as he blamed his toe etc, the fight wasn't even close and Wlad never looked like losing, and despite what Haye said prior to the fight, he really looked lost in the ring and his confidence is surely must be low?

I just don't see how fighting Vitali will be any different, unless he has massively wained and got massively slower then I see it being an even worse night than against Wlad, as for me, even at 40, Vitali is still the far stronger brother!

by Waingro Fri 2 Dec - 10:02

JDandfries wrote:No suggestion that he is really any good at Heavy, no real excitment, despite what people might think, and most of all, he is no better than the likes of Sam Peter, Chris Areola, Thomas Adamek, Kevin Johnson, Eddie Chambers, etc etc, because he had performed just as meekly against a K Brother.

He is most definately after another pay day, and should really be fighting another contender or two first, the like of Arreola, Adamek, Dimintrenko, Povetkin, Solis, Hellenius etc, would give him perhaps some confidence, if he could win, and maybe some of teh public back on side if he could actually manage to go about it in a dignified way!

You think fat bums like Arreola, Peter and Chambers are better than Haye!?? Mate they are nowhere near his class there is no point for Haye to fight these guys beating them woul prove nothing.

Haye is right the only guys worth fighting in the division are the two brothers he would get no credit for beating anyone else. This is why I think he deserves massive credit for taking on Vitali who you say is stronger than Wlad. No point wasting time fighting bums if you can fight the best and he also said he would take a pay cut to make the fight happen this shows how serious he is about the fight if he was just about money he would have stayd retired or not taken a pay cut. He could fight some of the bums you mentioned for an easy pay day also but he is not doing this he is taking on the best. When he knocks Vitali out Wlad will have no choice but to give him a rematch. Look at who Wlad is fighting next - Mormeck, a former cruiserweight who Haye destroyed years ago!! Is this a better fight than givng Haye a rematch?? Not a chance! This is what the Klichkos do they face bums most of the time it was Haye who came up from cruiserweight and forced them to fight someone good for a change and they avoided facing him for years!

by Rowley Fri 2 Dec - 10:04

Waingro wrote:

You think fat bums like Arreola, Peter and Chambers are better than Haye!??

If only there was someway of proving he was better than them

by Waingro Fri 2 Dec - 10:06

rowley wrote:
Waingro wrote:

You think fat bums like Arreola, Peter and Chambers are better than Haye!??

If only there was someway of proving he was better than them

Fury would beat those guys tbh

by Scottrf Fri 2 Dec - 10:10

Waingro wrote:
rowley wrote:
Waingro wrote:

You think fat bums like Arreola, Peter and Chambers are better than Haye!??

If only there was someway of proving he was better than them

Fury would beat those guys tbh

Stop it now.

by Rowley Fri 2 Dec - 10:11

Unfortunately Waingro boxing is not decided on who fans think would win fights it is decided in the ring, and has Haye has not beaten any of these guys he cannot really claim he is better than them. Obviously it is fairly safe to say a guy like Wlad is better than Audley despite them never having fought as his acheivements far outstrip him but again this is not massively the case in regard to Haye and these guys.

I personally would make Haye favourite against many of these guys but the reality is there are guys outside the brothers who represent a better class of heavy than anything Haye has currently fought at the weight.

by Waingro Fri 2 Dec - 10:15

So are people saying they would prefer to see Haye against a fat guy like Arreola than against Vitali?? How does this make sense??

If he beat Arreola which he would people would say Arreola was a joke so what is the point?

by Rowley Fri 2 Dec - 10:18

Would guess the reasons are two fold Waingro, firstly to earn a shot at a world title like everyone else and secondly to actually get some competitive rounds in and give people hope that should they be asked to shell out again to watch him in action we can cling to the hope he may perform with a little less ineptitude than the last time round.

by fearlessBamber Fri 2 Dec - 10:19

Waingro wrote:So are people saying they would prefer to see Haye against a fat guy like Arreola than against Vitali?? How does this make sense??

If he beat Arreola which he would people would say Arreola was a joke so what is the point?

Haye will never beat Arreola. He has far too much quality for him.

by JDandfries Fri 2 Dec - 10:23

But the likes of Arreola and the other I have mentioned have better 'form' and have fought better opposition than Haye has at heavywieight.

Arreloa is a a step up from Audley, Valuev and Barrett, and a step down from Wlad, which given Haye was an embarrassment against Wlad, it would make sense for him to take on some of the other ranked guys.

Incidently, Arreola went 10 rounds with Vitali (how I don't know), I can't see Haye getting that far, unless of course he hides all night again!

by Waingro Fri 2 Dec - 10:27

fearlessBamber wrote:
Waingro wrote:So are people saying they would prefer to see Haye against a fat guy like Arreola than against Vitali?? How does this make sense??

If he beat Arreola which he would people would say Arreola was a joke so what is the point?

Haye will never beat Arreola. He has far too much quality for him.

You cant be serious mate!? Have you seen these guys fight? Arreola is rubbish he hasnt beaten anyone decent and got absolutely destroyed by Vitali.

Fury would beat this guy trust me.

by JDandfries Fri 2 Dec - 10:30

If Arreola hasnt beaten anyone at heavy, where does that leave Haye? Who got taught a lesson by Vitali's little brother, and who, lets not forget, chose to defend his WBA world title against Audley Harrison (seriously and people wonder why no one likes him)

Who has he beaten that is markedly better than anything Arreola has beaten?

by Rowley Fri 2 Dec - 10:32

Waingro have you had a look at the prediction thread, ever wondered why everyone in the thread does not get maximum points every week? It is because fights do not always go as fans expect, easy to say Haye would destroy them, but does not make it so, maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't until he gets in there and proves it is is speculation, nothing more or less.

by **HumanWindmill** Fri 2 Dec - 10:33

Waingro wrote:
fearlessBamber wrote:
Waingro wrote:So are people saying they would prefer to see Haye against a fat guy like Arreola than against Vitali?? How does this make sense??

If he beat Arreola which he would people would say Arreola was a joke so what is the point?

Haye will never beat Arreola. He has far too much quality for him.

You cant be serious mate!? Have you seen these guys fight? Arreola is rubbish he hasnt beaten anyone decent and got absolutely destroyed by Vitali.

Fury would beat this guy trust me.

Whom has Haye beaten at heavyweight?

As for trusting you, I'd rather trust my grandmother's opinions about boxing, and she passed away in 1969.

by The genius of PBF Fri 2 Dec - 10:34

rowley wrote:Waingro have you had a look at the prediction thread, ever wondered why everyone in the thread does not get maximum points every week? It is because fights do not always go as fans expect, easy to say Haye would destroy them, but does not make it so, maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't until he gets in there and proves it is is speculation, nothing more or less.

Wrong again Rowley...Bhb001 scored maximum points last week. Wink

by Waingro Fri 2 Dec - 10:34

JDandfries wrote:If Arreola hasnt beaten anyone at heavy, where does that leave Haye? Who got taught a lesson by Vitali's little brother, and who, lets not forget, chose to defend his WBA world title against Audley Harrison (seriously and people wonder why no one likes him)

Who has he beaten that is markedly better than anything Arreola has beaten?

Haye won a world title and beat guys like Ruiz an Valuev what has Arreola done has he won a title? Has he beaten anyone good?

Valuev and Ruiz are better than Arreola.

Arreola got destroyed by Vitali and even lost to Adamek who is another useless heavyweight.

by Rowley Fri 2 Dec - 10:35

The genius of PBF wrote:
rowley wrote:Waingro have you had a look at the prediction thread, ever wondered why everyone in the thread does not get maximum points every week? It is because fights do not always go as fans expect, easy to say Haye would destroy them, but does not make it so, maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't until he gets in there and proves it is is speculation, nothing more or less.

Wrong again Rowley...Bhb001 scored maximum points last week.

That was impressive, do think it was the first time it has ever happened though which does slightly prove my point, scary though, bet he is gutted he didn't visit the bookies last week.

by JDandfries Fri 2 Dec - 10:37

Lets be honest, 90% of this forum could have beaten Valuev the way Haye did, Ruiz was well past his sell by date and was effectively a punch bag (he still gave Haye some problems) and then we have Audley - WOW Mr Haye has been electric at Heavy hasnt he!

by talkingpickle Fri 2 Dec - 10:38

Waingro wrote:
fearlessBamber wrote:
Waingro wrote:So are people saying they would prefer to see Haye against a fat guy like Arreola than against Vitali?? How does this make sense??

If he beat Arreola which he would people would say Arreola was a joke so what is the point?

Haye will never beat Arreola. He has far too much quality for him.

You cant be serious mate!? Have you seen these guys fight? Arreola is rubbish he hasnt beaten anyone decent and got absolutely destroyed by Vitali.

Fury would beat this guy trust me.

Have you seen Fury fight? Haye needs to earn the right to Vitali, up until now he has done nothing to suggest he is 'quality' at HW. Good CW but 'quality' HW? Never.

by The genius of PBF Fri 2 Dec - 10:40

Could have told me this earlier...Does this mean I can beat David Tua?...Valuev>Barrett>Tua

by sodhat Fri 2 Dec - 10:41

JDandfries wrote:Lets be honest, 90% of this forum could have beaten Valuev the way Haye did, Ruiz was well past his sell by date and was effectively a punch bag (he still gave Haye some problems) and then we have Audley - WOW Mr Haye has been electric at Heavy hasnt he!

I think there is line between being honest and being ridiculous, and I think you may have crossed it by some distance with that post.

by Scottrf Fri 2 Dec - 10:41

JDandfries wrote:Lets be honest, 90% of this forum could have beaten Valuev the way Haye did.

Spoiler:

by Rowley Fri 2 Dec - 10:43

I'm pretty confident I reside in the 10%.

by sodhat Fri 2 Dec - 10:45

rowley wrote:I'm pretty confident I reside in the 10%.

I don't think I could reach his face to hit him.

Waingro should do a poll and then we could get some statistical data as to how much of the forum reckon they could have a man that is chasing a yeti.

by Scottrf Fri 2 Dec - 10:47

Valuev is one of the GOAT. Source.

by Rowley Fri 2 Dec - 10:47

alma wrote:
HumanWindmill wrote:
Waingro wrote:
fearlessBamber wrote:
Waingro wrote:So are people saying they would prefer to see Haye against a fat guy like Arreola than against Vitali?? How does this make sense??

If he beat Arreola which he would people would say Arreola was a joke so what is the point?

Haye will never beat Arreola. He has far too much quality for him.

You cant be serious mate!? Have you seen these guys fight? Arreola is rubbish he hasnt beaten anyone decent and got absolutely destroyed by Vitali.

Fury would beat this guy trust me.

Whom has Haye beaten at heavyweight?

As for trusting you, I'd rather trust my grandmother's opinions about boxing, and she passed away in 1969.

Sorry to hear about your grandma, Windy

Don't be too upset mate, Windy was 154 in 1969 so would have to think she lived to a ripe old age.

by **HumanWindmill** Fri 2 Dec - 10:48

Haha!

Thank you, alma. I'm beginning to come to terms with it, which is more than I can say for for my ability to deal with Waingro's offerings.

by JDandfries Fri 2 Dec - 10:51

sodhat wrote:
JDandfries wrote:Lets be honest, 90% of this forum could have beaten Valuev the way Haye did, Ruiz was well past his sell by date and was effectively a punch bag (he still gave Haye some problems) and then we have Audley - WOW Mr Haye has been electric at Heavy hasnt he!

I think there is line between being honest and being ridiculous, and I think you may have crossed it by some distance with that post.

Waingro started it, so I thought I would up the ante somewhat.

Of course none of us could, but Haye didnt really fight him did he, he basically ran up to him, punched him 5 times and ran for teh next 3 minutes.

Hardkey impressive IMO

by manos de piedra Fri 2 Dec - 10:53

Much as it pains me, Im going to have to agree with Waingro to some extent here.

I dont really think the likes of Arreola and Chambers can claim to be more credible or on Hayes level. Not only have they been pasted in less impressive fashion that Haye but they also have lost to divisional contenders aswell which Haye has yet to do.

Haye winning a version of the title, combined with his good cruiserweight run I think is still enough to entitle him to a level up over those guys. There is a tendancy to tar everyone outside the Klitschkos as more or less the same but within the chasing pack I definatey see sub levels.

As it stands now id say roughyly Solis, Povetkin, Haye, Adamek would be tier 2 for me. Possibly Hellenius if he can continue decent form. Tier 3 might be Dmitrenko, Boytsov, Chambers, Arreola. Tier 4 Mormeck, Johnson, Rahman, Thompson....

Also seeing as we seem to be comparing Haye to Arreola for some reason, Arreola has basically been gifted back mandatory status for Vitalis WBC belt despite already tking a pasting, losing to Adamek and beating a string of nobodys. So much as we can criticise Haye for doing little to earn a shot the same could be said for Arreola.

by Rowley Fri 2 Dec - 10:55

JDandfries wrote:

Waingro started it, so I thought I would up the ante somewhat.

Of course none of us could,

Onetwo could, he is trained to kill you know.

by JDandfries Fri 2 Dec - 11:01

I forgot about him - ok most of us couldn't!

The point is Manos, that Haye hasn't beaten anyone either, and after his deplorable effort against Wlad, he should be fighting some of teh so called Tier two fighters - lets see David, are you really a decent Heavy, or have you just got a big mouth?

by manos de piedra Fri 2 Dec - 11:10

JDandfries wrote:I forgot about him - ok most of us couldn't!

The point is Manos, that Haye hasn't beaten anyone either, and after his deplorable effort against Wlad, he should be fighting some of teh so called Tier two fighters - lets see David, are you really a decent Heavy, or have you just got a big mouth?

Well I would have to say Haye has beaten significantly the more distinguished heavyweights. As past it as Ruiz was and as poor as Valuev is considered they are better than anything Arreola has beaten whos best win probably remains a shopworn Jameel McCline. I think Haye has the better heavyweight c.v and when combined with him winning a version of the title, not losing to any other contenders and being a unified cruiserweight champion I do feel he is entitled ank comfortably above Arreola and start as a handy betting favourite.

I agree though he should fight one or two of them before another title shot both for the ring work and to rebuild his reputation.

I would actually prefer to see him fight Solis, Adamek or Povetkin than Vitali right now personally as I see them as close to 50/50 fights which woul be very competitive.

Povetkin (assumng he finishes off Holyfield) I think would be about as good prep for a Klitschko as is out there currently. Also would give him a half title and probably mean he could force a figt with Wlad in the future.

But its all academic, none of it will happen.

by joeyjojo618 Fri 2 Dec - 11:12

I agree with Manos that Haye is relatively high amongst the chasing pack, but its pure conjecture seeing as he wont get in the ring with anyone. It really annoys me that he has dismissed the entire HW scene as bums for the past two years and people seem to take his word for it that he is a level above. When Khan bypassed british and euro level fighters and moved straight up to world level he got absolutely panned.

I would say Solis and Povetkin are no higher than 60/40 fights for Haye and I would much rather see Solis get a second crack at Vitali.

by JDandfries Fri 2 Dec - 11:14

It is a shame though Manos, dont you think.

if he is serious about coming back, and as he is only 31, then you would think he would have a warm up of sorts, but that just gives me another reason to dislike Haye given that he is clearly just going after the $$££ - because there really is no way he can beat Vitali and I fear another self preservation exercise so that at least he will be able to walk to the bank to collect his cash!

I agree on Solis, as short as the fight was, he looekd sharp and was giving Vit a few problems, that was of course until Vitali's supreme conditioning took over - or something like that censored

by manos de piedra Fri 2 Dec - 11:20

JDandfries wrote:It is a shame though Manos, dont you think.

if he is serious about coming back, and as he is only 31, then you would think he would have a warm up of sorts, but that just gives me another reason to dislike Haye given that he is clearly just going after the $$££ - because there really is no way he can beat Vitali and I fear another self preservation exercise so that at least he will be able to walk to the bank to collect his cash!

Yep I agree. It does lead to reasonable question marks about how serious is about winning I think. I remain skeptical because at the age of 31 (youngish for a heavy) and a short career theres no reason for him to rush back in.

On paper it has the feeling of a retirement fight for both men and one last pay off. Not sure how much longer Vitali intends to carry on. Haye is probably the last fighter out there that gives him any real fire to face on a personal level. Arreola is his utterly pointless mandatory. My guess is he will retire soon enough and let his little brother complete the set, which was probably the long term plan for the pair of them. The only other possibly motivation for Vitali to carry on might be to break big Georges record, which is still about 4 years away though.

by **HumanWindmill** Fri 2 Dec - 11:21

joeyjojo618 wrote:I agree with Manos that Haye is relatively high amongst the chasing pack, but its pure conjecture seeing as he wont get in the ring with anyone. It really annoys me that he has dismissed the entire HW scene as bums for the past two years and people seem to take his word for it that he is a level above. When Khan bypassed british and euro level fighters and moved straight up to world level he got absolutely panned.

I would say Solis and Povetkin are no higher than 60/40 fights for Haye and I would much rather see Solis get a second crack at Vitali.

That's exactly how I see it, joey.

Can't fault manos' interpretation in isolation but in context Haye pales in comparison to either of the brothers and, morally at least, has done nothing to deserve a shot at Vitali. Notwithstanding Waingro's naive, nationalistic jingoism and clichés, Haye was utterly clueless against Wlad. He had no idea how to do the fundamentals such as slipping the jab and countering but was, instead, reduced to faffing around on the outside, shimmying and feinting ( without any purpose, from what I could see, ) and then leaping in with a smash and grab raid, often off balance and without planting his feet or turning his weight into his punches.

It was a poor, unambitious performance, and utterly belied this notion that Haye is exciting.

He was plain awful, pure and simple.

by manos de piedra Fri 2 Dec - 11:25

HumanWindmill wrote:
joeyjojo618 wrote:I agree with Manos that Haye is relatively high amongst the chasing pack, but its pure conjecture seeing as he wont get in the ring with anyone. It really annoys me that he has dismissed the entire HW scene as bums for the past two years and people seem to take his word for it that he is a level above. When Khan bypassed british and euro level fighters and moved straight up to world level he got absolutely panned.

I would say Solis and Povetkin are no higher than 60/40 fights for Haye and I would much rather see Solis get a second crack at Vitali.

That's exactly how I see it, joey.

Can't fault manos' interpretation in isolation but in context Haye pales in comparison to either of the brothers and, morally at least, has done nothing to deserve a shot at Vitali. Notwithstanding Waingro's naive, nationalistic jingoism and clichés, Haye was utterly clueless against Wlad. He had no idea how to do the fundamentals such as slipping the jab and countering but was, instead, reduced to faffing around on the outside, shimmying and feinting ( without any purpose, from what I could see, ) and then leaping in with a smash and grab raid, often off balance and without planting his feet or turning his weight into his punches.

It was a poor, unambitious performance, and utterly belied this notion that Haye is exciting.

He was plain awful, pure and simple.

Yeah I totally agree it does really grate the way Haye acts like he is in the same bracket as the brothers rather than the one below and dismisses everyone else as unworthy. But theoretically I still think he belongs just one level down rather than in with the likes of Arreola who I do think has bulilt a reputation built on pretty much nothing.

by sodhat Fri 2 Dec - 11:28

manos de piedra wrote:
JDandfries wrote:It is a shame though Manos, dont you think.

if he is serious about coming back, and as he is only 31, then you would think he would have a warm up of sorts, but that just gives me another reason to dislike Haye given that he is clearly just going after the $$££ - because there really is no way he can beat Vitali and I fear another self preservation exercise so that at least he will be able to walk to the bank to collect his cash!

Yep I agree. It does lead to reasonable question marks about how serious is about winning I think. I remain skeptical because at the age of 31 (youngish for a heavy) and a short career theres no reason for him to rush back in.

On paper it has the feeling of a retirement fight for both men and one last pay off. Not sure how much longer Vitali intends to carry on. Haye is probably the last fighter out there that gives him any real fire to face on a personal level. Arreola is his utterly pointless mandatory. My guess is he will retire soon enough and let his little brother complete the set, which was probably the long term plan for the pair of them. The only other possibly motivation for Vitali to carry on might be to break big Georges record, which is still about 4 years away though.

I think Vitali would carry on fighting after he dispatches Haye -- I can't see any reason to quit if you are miles ahead of everyone else, filling stadiums and putting wins on your record. I understand he will have to stop some time, but I'm not sure it will happen unless his skills are diminished severely or if he takes a pasting from a younger heavyweight.

Haye will probably retire regardless of what happens. I guess it depends what he does with his money, but I'd assume he has plenty to sit back on!

by JDandfries Fri 2 Dec - 11:28

Maybe he is better than 'the rest' in fact even I think he probably is, but he has shown nothing as a Heavy to suggest that he is, and that is so annoying!

by manos de piedra Fri 2 Dec - 11:32

sodhat wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:
JDandfries wrote:It is a shame though Manos, dont you think.

if he is serious about coming back, and as he is only 31, then you would think he would have a warm up of sorts, but that just gives me another reason to dislike Haye given that he is clearly just going after the $$££ - because there really is no way he can beat Vitali and I fear another self preservation exercise so that at least he will be able to walk to the bank to collect his cash!

Yep I agree. It does lead to reasonable question marks about how serious is about winning I think. I remain skeptical because at the age of 31 (youngish for a heavy) and a short career theres no reason for him to rush back in.

On paper it has the feeling of a retirement fight for both men and one last pay off. Not sure how much longer Vitali intends to carry on. Haye is probably the last fighter out there that gives him any real fire to face on a personal level. Arreola is his utterly pointless mandatory. My guess is he will retire soon enough and let his little brother complete the set, which was probably the long term plan for the pair of them. The only other possibly motivation for Vitali to carry on might be to break big Georges record, which is still about 4 years away though.

I think Vitali would carry on fighting after he dispatches Haye -- I can't see any reason to quit if you are miles ahead of everyone else, filling stadiums and putting wins on your record. I understand he will have to stop some time, but I'm not sure it will happen unless his skills are diminished severely or if he takes a pasting from a younger heavyweight.

Haye will probably retire regardless of what happens. I guess it depends what he does with his money, but I'd assume he has plenty to sit back on!

I think its more to do with the polical side of things rather than physical decline that could lead him to retire. He is involved in Ukranian parliament and seems this seems to be n increasing part of his life.

In all honest the way the division is currently, assuming he beats Haye, he could probably go on part time and still rule til God knows when but I think theres a chance that politics will take over as his real motivation and passion and I also think at some point the plan is to have Wlad hold all the titles.

by Waingro Fri 2 Dec - 12:07

manos de piedra wrote:
HumanWindmill wrote:
joeyjojo618 wrote:I agree with Manos that Haye is relatively high amongst the chasing pack, but its pure conjecture seeing as he wont get in the ring with anyone. It really annoys me that he has dismissed the entire HW scene as bums for the past two years and people seem to take his word for it that he is a level above. When Khan bypassed british and euro level fighters and moved straight up to world level he got absolutely panned.

I would say Solis and Povetkin are no higher than 60/40 fights for Haye and I would much rather see Solis get a second crack at Vitali.

That's exactly how I see it, joey.

Can't fault manos' interpretation in isolation but in context Haye pales in comparison to either of the brothers and, morally at least, has done nothing to deserve a shot at Vitali. Notwithstanding Waingro's naive, nationalistic jingoism and clichés, Haye was utterly clueless against Wlad. He had no idea how to do the fundamentals such as slipping the jab and countering but was, instead, reduced to faffing around on the outside, shimmying and feinting ( without any purpose, from what I could see, ) and then leaping in with a smash and grab raid, often off balance and without planting his feet or turning his weight into his punches.

It was a poor, unambitious performance, and utterly belied this notion that Haye is exciting.

He was plain awful, pure and simple.

Yeah I totally agree it does really grate the way Haye acts like he is in the same bracket as the brothers rather than the one below and dismisses everyone else as unworthy. But theoretically I still think he belongs just one level down rather than in with the likes of Arreola who I do think has bulilt a reputation built on pretty much nothing.

You are right about Arreola but I think you are wrong about Haye. Haye deserves to be in the same level as Klichkos he will prove this by knocking out Vitali in March!

Arreola is just a fat guy he has done nothing tbh has he been undisputed cruiser champ? Has he won a world title? No he has not he got absolutely destroyed by Vitali and lost to Adamek he is also fat and out of shape how can people say Haye does not take his fights seriously he is in unbelievable shape! Fat guys like Arreola and Solis do not take it seriously they just show up for paydays. This is why I think Fury would beat them. Fury beat Chisora who was unbeaten most thought he would beat Fury has Arreola beat anyone better than that??

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