Who will be behind the Hayemaker!?

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I said before that it would be a shame if Haye retired he still has so much to offer. Now it looks like Haye is back! Who will be behind him? I cant wait for this fight with Vitali I will be firmly supporting Haye. I think the British public should get behind him again we want a British heavyweight world champion dont we!? Haye will have learned from his last fight make no mistake about that and we all know he has the tools to beat Vitali who is old and slow now and far too easy to hit. My prediction? Haye to KO Vitali in round 6! Too much speed and power for Vitali and too much skill. I think Haye will bring an end to the Klichkos reign. Dont get me wrong, the Klichkos have been good champs but they are boring and have been ruining heavyweight boxing for far too long. Vitali should have stayed retired and let Wlad unify and Wlad should have retired after that the division would be so much better and the Klichkos reputation would be better. But I truly believe Haye is the man to do this now he is the most exciting heavyweight out there and has the charisma to get people back interested in boxing. I hope the British public and media realise this everyone deserves another chance and Haye deserves MASSIVE credit for coming back to take such a challenging fight. So in March who will you be supporting?? Will you be getting behind the Hayemaker again??

You're a fan then, captain?

I want a British heavyweight champion as much as anyone, but unless Haye can prove in the ring that he deserves to be there by really taking the fight to Vitali, then I'm afraid his havyweight career will remain a complete laughing stock.

rowley wrote:You live and learn Scott, most disappointing, still want him to smack the clown into retirement though.

So if Haye learns from his mistakes,will you give him some credit?

captain carrantuohil wrote:Here we go again....the top three threads of the board are currently dominated by this ghastly snake oil salesman. While, it's mildly encouraging that some 50% appear to be hoping for Vitali to add the full stop to Haye's less than stellar heavyweight career, I find it depressing how many people are prepared to allow themselves to fall for boxing's equivalent of the three card trick yet again.

Nationalism really is the most blinding of vices - I can't see it as patriotic to want as classless an individual as Haye to win a fight simply because he sports the Union Jack. He's not as good as Vitali, of course, hits less hard, throws fewer shots, so he won't win, unless Vitali suddenly turns fifty overnight. I don't imagine that Vitali has any great dread of the opposition, either, or he wouldn't be trying so hard to reheat such stale cabbage.

In summary, I object to the fact that Haye is set to gain a shot that he doesn't deserve, I deplore the fact that I am going to have to listen either to him or his die-hard bunch of acolytes telling me that we are on the verge of a new era in boxing for the next four months and I can only hope that after March 6th, this fairground barker will never intrude on any sort of public space again.

Captain, if you're not prepared to get off the fence I see little to no point to you commenting.

Jezz, Captain's like one of those odious politicians who say things like, "Well, I'll answer that question with another question" or "That's a very good question and one I'd like to address" before going off on a tangent about something completely unconnected.

It's frustrating to say the least!!!!!!!!!!

King Monkey, the only reason that I have seen given for people wanting Haye to win so far is the fact that he is British. Some would call that patriotic; I don't, I think the term nationalistic or jingoistic, if you prefer, is more appropriate.

Beyond that, I don't see what could give offence. I'm sorry that you feel piqued by my analysis, but it is the "I'm supporting him because he's British" brigade who also bear a heavy responsibility for this man's imminent presence in another top-line heavyweight title fight, which is something that I find rather offensive in my turn.

And there he goes again not answering the question!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry Dave. To be specific: No, I shan't be behind him on fight night.

Better?

I'm not supporting him solely because his British, that's my point. And I'm sure that lots of other knowledgable boxing fans are the same as me. I've always enjoyed Haye's boxing style, I've found him excting to watch and whilst I agree that out of the ring the K's seem more 'likeable' inside the ring theey have been as dull as dishwater.

If Haye won it'd shake boxing up massively, I'd love to see it.

Again I have to take issue with this idea Haye is Mr excitement, were either the Wlad, Valuev or Harrison fight any less turgid than anything the brothers have served up?

As the Captain has alluded to does seem a bit smoke and mirrors, if you tell people something enough they will take it as fact. He is by no means an exciting heavyweight, like every fighter he should be judged on what he does inside the ring, and more often than not at heavy he does not deliver.

KingMonkey, it must have been an entirely different Haye that I've been watching as a heavyweight, because a man who would throw roughly a dozen punches a round, as he did against Klitschko (fewer against Harrison, slightly more against Valuev) can't by the remotest stretch be described as exciting, in my opinion. His cruiserweight career was demonstrably different.

However, as you are the first person I've seen express a specifically boxing-related reason why you want the fellow to win, I am happy to absolve you of charges of jingoism. Truly, I don't usually get so riled by a fighter, but Haye is the sort of person who really gives me the pip. I think he constantly underestimates the public's intelligence, and I still hope, even at this late stage, that he is hopelessly wrong to do so.

Rowley beat me to it. This idea that Haye is an exciting fighter seems, incredibly enough, to be built around what he's done outside of the ring rather than inside it.

Not denying that he was a highly exciting Cruiserweight; I enjoyed the bouts against Fragomeni, Mormeck and Maccarinelli very much (particularly the Fragomeni one). But since stepping up to become a full time Heavyweight, he's had five fights and none of them have really got my blood pumping, the first three or four rounds of the Ruiz bout aside.

captain carrantuohil wrote:King Monkey, the only reason that I have seen given for people wanting Haye to win so far is the fact that he is British. Some would call that patriotic; I don't, I think the term nationalistic or jingoistic, if you prefer, is more appropriate.

Beyond that, I don't see what could give offence. I'm sorry that you feel piqued by my analysis, but it is the "I'm supporting him because he's British" brigade who also bear a heavy responsibility for this man's imminent presence in another top-line heavyweight title fight, which is something that I find rather offensive in my turn.

Whats your problem some people want him to win because they can relate something to him or have something in common with him, from the same country, big deal, get over it.

Even with the Ruiz fight though Chris I find myself asking would either of the brothers have not despatched that version of Ruiz in just as emphatic a fashion as lets be honest about it, it was a pretty worn version of a fighter who was no great shakes at his best.

John Ruiz - Right hand, fall into opponent, all night long baby.

rowley wrote:Even with the Ruiz fight though Chris I find myself asking would either of the brothers have not despatched that version of Ruiz in just as emphatic a fashion as lets be honest about it, it was a pretty worn version of a fighter who was no great shakes at his best.

Certainly agree that Ruiz was nothing to get excited about and that both Wladimir and Vitali would have done an emphatic number on him, don't get me wrong. But Haye did look very well in the opening few rounds of that fight, doing more or less everything you could ask of someone faced with a man as durable as Ruiz was. For a first defence it was a good performance until the mid stages, where he seemed to run out of gas for a little while after throwing everything he had at his man in the opening three rounds or so. Hence why it was only the opening stages of that fight which really came near to 'exciting' status in my mind when it comes to Haye as a Heavyweight. The rest of the performance was workmanlike.

I, admittedly, have a tendency to support British fighters over others.

However, there are some cases i.e. Pacquiao vs Hatton where I really don't mind, as I liked both fighters, and maybe even leant slightly toward Manny as I wanted to see a Manny/FMJ showdown around that time, and also felt that Manny was the better fighter to watch.

With Haye against a Klitschko it is a different matter. I like the K Bros and the way they conduct themselves, put on great ring walks and really add a sense of occasion to heavyweight title fights, but they've dominated for a heck of a long time now and my backing of Haye is mainly through the hope of a change and a bit of a shake up, as opposed to my love of Haye the person. I do like trash talk, to an extent, as it undoubtedly creates hype and excitement which the sport needs, but it obviously needs to be backed up inside the ring - something which Haye failed to do last time, and which he will need to do this time if anyone is to take him even remotely seriously as a heavyweight.

I'm old enough to have seen the effects that blind nationalism can have in a boxing ring, Alex. You're not. It is a big deal - I've seen tear gas in a British ring, bottles and chairs thrown from Stafford to London and Birmingham, simply because people had been disappointed that someone they could relate to hadn't succeeded. Not your place to tell me to get over it.

Fists of Fury wrote:I, admittedly, have a tendency to support British fighters over others.

However, there are some cases i.e. Pacquiao vs Hatton where I really don't mind, as I liked both fighters, and maybe even leant slightly toward Manny as I wanted to see a Manny/FMJ showdown around that time, and also felt that Manny was the better fighter to watch.

With Haye against a Klitschko it is a different matter. I like the K Bros and the way they conduct themselves, put on great ring walks and really add a sense of occasion to heavyweight title fights, but they've dominated for a heck of a long time now and my backing of Haye is mainly through the hope of a change and a bit of a shake up, as opposed to my love of Haye the person. I do like trash talk, to an extent, as it undoubtedly creates hype and excitement which the sport needs, but it obviously needs to be backed up inside the ring - something which Haye failed to do last time, and which he will need to do this time if anyone is to take him even remotely seriously as a heavyweight.

You actually enjoy those, the one on Haye/Wlad was just plain a simple daft.

Ruiz was a very exciting fight. I went to that one live and felt I got every pennys worth of the ticket cost.

It showcased Haye's ability against someone of similar stature, I feel, just as he did at cruiserweight. Granted Ruiz may have been past his best, but he was still durable and came to win. Against bigger guys it does seem that Haye struggles for a way to get inside, and doesn't quite manage to combine his very decent lateral movement with the ability to mount counter attacks of his own.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:I, admittedly, have a tendency to support British fighters over others.

However, there are some cases i.e. Pacquiao vs Hatton where I really don't mind, as I liked both fighters, and maybe even leant slightly toward Manny as I wanted to see a Manny/FMJ showdown around that time, and also felt that Manny was the better fighter to watch.

With Haye against a Klitschko it is a different matter. I like the K Bros and the way they conduct themselves, put on great ring walks and really add a sense of occasion to heavyweight title fights, but they've dominated for a heck of a long time now and my backing of Haye is mainly through the hope of a change and a bit of a shake up, as opposed to my love of Haye the person. I do like trash talk, to an extent, as it undoubtedly creates hype and excitement which the sport needs, but it obviously needs to be backed up inside the ring - something which Haye failed to do last time, and which he will need to do this time if anyone is to take him even remotely seriously as a heavyweight.

You actually enjoy those, the one on Haye/Wlad was just plain a simple daft.

Vitalis are always better, I feel, they're far more menacing.

He's walking to a ring, how exciting can that get?

rowley wrote:Even with the Ruiz fight though Chris I find myself asking would either of the brothers have not despatched that version of Ruiz in just as emphatic a fashion as lets be honest about it, it was a pretty worn version of a fighter who was no great shakes at his best.

Vitali struggled to despatch the likes of Briggs, Sosnowski (spelling), a guy Audley was favourite to beat as well before their fight got called off...Wladimir is reluctant to throw right hands until they have nothing left i.e. Peters...Ruiz had the best training camp heading into the Haye fight and pushed the likes of Chagaev and Valuev all the way.

Also since when has Wladimir, Valuev and Harrison ever been in a exciting fight?...Hard for anyone to look exciting against them.

AlexHuckerby wrote:He's walking to a ring, how exciting can that get?

Like I said, it is the sense of occasion, a big show for a big event, and they make great use of lighting effects etc. Cheesy and over the top much of the time, but always lets you know something big is about to happen (before they go out and jab right cross their opponent into oblivion).

Valuev was a means to an end, Harrison was just a farce and in the Wlad fight he was outclassed.

The Ruiz fight was fun, likewise Barrett, Enzo and even the Mormeck scrap.

You can dress these things up however you like, I find him good to watch and I'd like to see him beat Vitali. To see that almost unbeatable giant beaten... I can't see it happening. I think I'd be staring wide eyed and amazed if he managed it.

Fists of Fury wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:He's walking to a ring, how exciting can that get?

Like I said, it is the sense of occasion, a big show for a big event, and they make great use of lighting effects etc. Cheesy and over the top much of the time, but always lets you know something big is about to happen (before they go out and jab right cross their opponent into oblivion).

Nah, for me the K's ring walks are just embarrassing, I cringe when seeing them walk out with a load of randomly placed heavy bags swinging around, just daft.

Oh and I fully admit to buying into all the hype, the ring walks etc. Love (LOVE) it.

Manny vs Mosley was brilliant despite me not looking forward to the fight at all. I sat there like an excited child.

I enjoy watching him too, KM, I even did against Valuev. It was a game of chess, trying to get in and out without getting caught, and I feel he did it very well.

There is always a sense of 'something is about to happen' with Haye, and I've always been a fan of the hands down style, as risky as it may be.

As you say, each to their own, but I enjoy it. Likewise, I'll be hoping he can pull off what seems like the impossible.

KingMonkey wrote:Valuev was a means to an end, Harrison was just a farce and in the Wlad fight he was outclassed.

The Ruiz fight was fun, likewise Barrett, Enzo and even the Mormeck scrap.

.

Be that as it may it still does not change the fact that since he went to heavyweight proper he has had 5 fights, three of which have failed to deliver anything close to excitement, given this I fail to see how he can be described as exciting, accept his cruiser career was different but he is no longer a cruiserweight and so this is largely irrelevant for me.

KingMonkey wrote:Valuev was a means to an end, Harrison was just a farce and in the Wlad fight he was outclassed.

The Ruiz fight was fun, likewise Barrett, Enzo and even the Mormeck scrap.

You can dress these things up however you like, I find him good to watch and I'd like to see him beat Vitali. To see that almost unbeatable giant beaten... I can't see it happening. I think I'd be staring wide eyed and amazed if he managed it.

Seen it twice when he quit against Byrd and got cut to shreds by Lewis...easy to look "unbeatable" when you are facing dross opponents.

Hopefully Haye exposes the myth of Vitali's overrated chin...Got shaken up badly by Sanders and was on the verge of being knocked out by Lewis.

Thank god the likes of Foreman, Shavers, Dempsey, Tyson, Louis etc aren't fighting in this era for Vitali's sake.

PBF, I'd love Haye to win but have to suspect you're getting slightly carried away and ludicrous in your assessment of Vitali, here.

PBF, the 'myth' of Vitali's great chin is nowhere near as inaccurate as the myth of Haye's supposedly devastating punching power at Heavyweight.

I think the main reason this fight has got everyone talking is the possibility (however faint) of seeing someone with an iron chin being decked.

Of the current heavyweights, who else could do that? Helenius and Fury are too inexperienced, Povetkin doesn't want it, Dimitrenko is poor and the others in the division are either previous victims or simply not good enough.

IF this fight is confirmed, let's see some action rather than jab, hold, evade, throw a big right that misses then complain to the ref.

The genius of PBF wrote:

KingMonkey wrote:Valuev was a means to an end, Harrison was just a farce and in the Wlad fight he was outclassed.

The Ruiz fight was fun, likewise Barrett, Enzo and even the Mormeck scrap.

You can dress these things up however you like, I find him good to watch and I'd like to see him beat Vitali. To see that almost unbeatable giant beaten... I can't see it happening. I think I'd be staring wide eyed and amazed if he managed it.

Seen it twice when he quit against Byrd and got cut to shreds by Lewis...easy to look "unbeatable" when you are facing dross opponents.

Hopefully Haye exposes the myth of Vitali's overrated chin...Got shaken up badly by Sanders and was on the verge of being knocked out by Lewis.

Thank god the likes of Foreman, Shavers, Dempsey, Tyson, Louis etc aren't fighting in this era for Vitali's sake.

Didn't really quit against Byrd he had no choice given an injury he had sustained, and to be fair the guy was in complete control of Byrd and way up on the scorecards. How many other guys could have taken the shots Lewis dished out, and even so he pushed Lewis very hard and to be honest if it had gone on for a couple more rounds I think he would have had Lewis out of there, Lewis was gassed, albeit him not in perfect shape.

88Chris05 wrote:PBF, the 'myth' of Vitali's great chin is nowhere near as inaccurate as the myth of Haye's supposedly devastating punching power at Heavyweight.

Or even the myth of Vitali's elite power. To be fair Haye's power is criticised because of his lack of finishing ability.

Scottrf wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:PBF, the 'myth' of Vitali's great chin is nowhere near as inaccurate as the myth of Haye's supposedly devastating punching power at Heavyweight.

Or even the myth of Vitali's elite power. To be fair Haye's power is criticised because of his lack of finishing ability.

Have never considered Vitali's power to be 'elite' personally, Scott - not sure all that many have, really. As for Haye's finishing ability, I'd say he demonstrated it well enough against Mormeck and Maccarinelli etc. Just don't think he carries as much of a whack north of 200 lb as some others do, but it's subjective I suppose.

I think a lot do with reference to his knockout record.

He was flailing against Macca same as he did against Harrison. I think if he caught either properly in the follow up they would have been out on the floor. Mormeck was half decent finishing though.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

KingMonkey wrote:Valuev was a means to an end, Harrison was just a farce and in the Wlad fight he was outclassed.

The Ruiz fight was fun, likewise Barrett, Enzo and even the Mormeck scrap.

You can dress these things up however you like, I find him good to watch and I'd like to see him beat Vitali. To see that almost unbeatable giant beaten... I can't see it happening. I think I'd be staring wide eyed and amazed if he managed it.

Seen it twice when he quit against Byrd and got cut to shreds by Lewis...easy to look "unbeatable" when you are facing dross opponents.

Hopefully Haye exposes the myth of Vitali's overrated chin...Got shaken up badly by Sanders and was on the verge of being knocked out by Lewis.

Thank god the likes of Foreman, Shavers, Dempsey, Tyson, Louis etc aren't fighting in this era for Vitali's sake.

Didn't really quit against Byrd he had no choice given an injury he had sustained, and to be fair the guy was in complete control of Byrd and way up on the scorecards. How many other guys could have taken the shots Lewis dished out, and even so he pushed Lewis very hard and to be honest if it had gone on for a couple more rounds I think he would have had Lewis out of there, Lewis was gassed, albeit him not in perfect shape.

I saw it the other way round, Alex, and think Lewis would have stopped Vitali, despite looking fairly gassed himself. Either way, that is irrelevant given the mess Lewis had made of his eye.

Scott - Haye has perfectly fine finishing ability which he demonstrated on several occasions at cruiser, but that will obviously become more difficult at heavyweight where his punch power isn't going to be as effective.

Fists of Fury wrote:Scott - Haye has perfectly fine finishing ability which he demonstrated on several occasions at cruiser, but that will obviously become more difficult at heavyweight where his punch power isn't going to be as effective.

Na, Ruiz would have been out earlier if he did, and Barrett, Harrison and Enzo would have been laid out. He can tend to let people off the hook when hurt because he isn't controlled enough.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

KingMonkey wrote:Valuev was a means to an end, Harrison was just a farce and in the Wlad fight he was outclassed.

The Ruiz fight was fun, likewise Barrett, Enzo and even the Mormeck scrap.

You can dress these things up however you like, I find him good to watch and I'd like to see him beat Vitali. To see that almost unbeatable giant beaten... I can't see it happening. I think I'd be staring wide eyed and amazed if he managed it.

Seen it twice when he quit against Byrd and got cut to shreds by Lewis...easy to look "unbeatable" when you are facing dross opponents.

Hopefully Haye exposes the myth of Vitali's overrated chin...Got shaken up badly by Sanders and was on the verge of being knocked out by Lewis.

Thank god the likes of Foreman, Shavers, Dempsey, Tyson, Louis etc aren't fighting in this era for Vitali's sake.

Didn't really quit against Byrd he had no choice given an injury he had sustained, and to be fair the guy was in complete control of Byrd and way up on the scorecards. How many other guys could have taken the shots Lewis dished out, and even so he pushed Lewis very hard and to be honest if it had gone on for a couple more rounds I think he would have had Lewis out of there, Lewis was gassed, albeit him not in perfect shape.

He did quit against Byrd as he did not want to continue, How can you say that is not quitting?...Byrd was starting to come on strong, the body shots were getting to Vitali...The fight was closer then some people think, Byrd wanted a rematch...wonder why Vitali did not want to face him again.

End of the 6th round you can clearly see Vitali out on his feet no doubt Lewis was about to finish him off...He took some good shots against Lewis fair enough but the likes of Mavrovic, Tua took way more.

Didn't like tasting Sanders punching power did he? Was cowering away in the corner.

Mr Bounce wrote:IF this fight is confirmed, let's see some action rather than jab, hold, evade, throw a big right that misses then complain to the ref.

You forgot to mention the revelation that he had chipped a fingernail before the fight rendering that hand useless.

It was the Harrison fight that did it for me. If Haye was any good he should have got that large waste of space out of there within 3 minutes. And I agree with everything said, on this subject, by captainc... & rowley.

Money would be Vitali but would love Haye to win.

Some say he doesn't deserve a shot, but I think he's more deserving and better than 95% of the guys the Klit's have ever faced.

The genius of PBF wrote:
He did quit against Byrd as he did not want to continue, How can you say that is not quitting?...Byrd was starting to come on strong, the body shots were getting to Vitali...The fight was closer then some people think, Byrd wanted a rematch...wonder why Vitali did not want to face him again.

End of the 6th round you can clearly see Vitali out on his feet no doubt Lewis was about to finish him off...He took some good shots against Lewis fair enough but the likes of Mavrovic, Tua took way more.

Didn't like tasting Sanders punching power did he? Was cowering away in the corner.

Is this a joke ?

I will be cheering on Haye if this happens (big IF there), but can only see one winner, Haye's bank manager

fearlessBamber wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:
He did quit against Byrd as he did not want to continue, How can you say that is not quitting?...Byrd was starting to come on strong, the body shots were getting to Vitali...The fight was closer then some people think, Byrd wanted a rematch...wonder why Vitali did not want to face him again.

End of the 6th round you can clearly see Vitali out on his feet no doubt Lewis was about to finish him off...He took some good shots against Lewis fair enough but the likes of Mavrovic, Tua took way more.

Didn't like tasting Sanders punching power did he? Was cowering away in the corner.

Is this a joke ?

he thinks hes floyd mayweather let him be.

Fists of Fury wrote:Size will be the over-riding factor, just as it was against Wlad. In technical terms, Haye would demolish a 6ft 3 Wlad or a 6ft 3 Vitali I'd guess, but that extra 4 to 5 inches height just makes all the difference.

Totally disagree with this mate.

Don't think haye is a technically great fighter at all. He is an opportunist in the ring, essentially his style boils down to walking backwards, waiting for his opponent to leave themselves open then exploding onto them with a big right hand - and if he hurts them he'll follow it up with a barrage of power punches. There's not much more to him than that - he has no jab, doesn't throw combinations, has little punch variety ie doesn't go to the body just head hunts, isn't a great inside fighter. His footwork is ok and he can punch well going backwards, his defence is basically evasiveness reliant on speed and reflexes and in fairness he's not the easiest to hit. Not saying he's a bad fighter or that his style isn't effective against the right opponent, but from a technical perspective both K's are vastly superior and their size only compounds that and makes their technical skill appear even more superior.

I'd support haye against vitali regardless of how disappointing I found him against wlad, but I certainly wouldn't put money on him; he'll find vitali an easier target than wlad but the size, strength and power of the man would prove too much. Haye could only win by employing the same hit and run tactics he did against valuev, but vitali quicker and more nimble than people realise and would catch up with haye eventually. Vitali LKO.

I'm fairly sure it'll happen, Haye must be smart enough to realise he's plenty of time to make a career of TV work but only a very small window to make any more serious money out of boxing - not to mention to patch up his severely tarnished reputation.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

fearlessBamber wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:
He did quit against Byrd as he did not want to continue, How can you say that is not quitting?...Byrd was starting to come on strong, the body shots were getting to Vitali...The fight was closer then some people think, Byrd wanted a rematch...wonder why Vitali did not want to face him again.

End of the 6th round you can clearly see Vitali out on his feet no doubt Lewis was about to finish him off...He took some good shots against Lewis fair enough but the likes of Mavrovic, Tua took way more.

Didn't like tasting Sanders punching power did he? Was cowering away in the corner.

Is this a joke ?

he thinks hes floyd mayweather let him be.

Fair enough.

He's not Scottish so any form of patriotism is lost on me. I'm not a Klitschko basher I like the brothers. Hope Vitali succeeds where Wladimir failed and sparks Haye out I don't like the man or rate him that highly either.

Scottish bloke wanting an Englishman to get KO'd? You do surprise me

of course we should be backing haye, and i will definitely be.

fair play for him for wanting the fight. he's a lot of things, but a ducker (or coward) isn't one of them.

Fists I don't want him KO'd for being English. I just don't have the patriotic urge to support him like I would with a Scot. I will be supporting Froch and Khan so I'm not totally anti English.