Ulster v Scarlets 2nd December 2011 at Ravenhill KO 7.05pm

First topic message reminder :

Ulster
(15-9): A D'Arcy; A Trimble, D Cave, N Spence, C Gilroy; I Humphreys, P Marshall;
(1-8): T Court, R Best, J Afoa, J Muller (capt), D Tuohy, S Ferris, C Henry, P Wannenburg;

Replacements (16-23): N Brady, P McAllister, A Macklin, L Stevenson, R Diack, R Pienaar, P Jackson, I Whitten

Scarlets:

15-9 Dan Evans, Iongi, Reynolds, Warren, Lamont, Jones, Gareth Davies
1-8 John, Owens, Manu, Reed, Powell, Gilbert, McCusker, Murphy

16-23 Phillips, Iestyn Thomas, Gardiner, Welch, Edwards, Rhodri Williams, Newton, Iolo Evans.

Wow, 24 points conceded since the early tries. Inexcusable...

He needs to sin bin an Ulster player quick - not because they've done anything wrong but to give the Scarlets a chance!

Thats the young flyhalf who played under 20s for ireland just come on. very good player

he just has smirnoff

Thanks ref

Macklin literally on the pitch for 15 seconds before being binned - to be fair it was the number of Ulster penalties conceded more than anything else.

Easy come, easy go....
He got his win bonus and went for a shower... :o

Yellow card for Ulster

gowales wrote:Yellow card for Ulster

Yes but he probably has an appearance bonus and win bonus in his contract, so 15 seconds... all in all a good nights work!

AlynDavies wrote:Easy come, easy go....
He got his win bonus and went for a shower... :o

Cut it out Alyn mate...!

No need for your cynicism here. its a good game.

AlynDavies wrote:

gowales wrote:Yellow card for Ulster

Yes but he probably has an appearance bonus and win bonus in his contract, so 15 seconds... all in all a good nights work!

Seriously mate...! Quit it, you sound very disrespectful.

Thats a 7 pointer.

Ulster 24 - 17 Scarelts

Still time for Scarlets.

lol nice. Try to Scarlets from a number 8 pickup. Lets Go!!!

maestegmafia wrote:Seriously mate...! Quit it, you sound very disrespectful.

Sorry I thought it was very funny that's all, lol.

Think McLaughlin might of made a mistake bringing all 7 of Ulsters subs on.

Stephen jones is an absolute idiot...!

Always kicks the ball away when his side need possession and are doing something with it...

Thank go he wont play for wales again, he's been doing the same for years

Jones has no composure when it is needed, rubbish play.

Game over...!

24 - 17 win to Ulster

LBP to Scarlets

maestegmafia wrote:Stephen jones is an absolute idiot...!

Always kicks the ball away when his side need possession and are doing something with it...

Thank go he wont play for wales again, he's been doing the same for years

Yea hes done that numerous times. One time against Scotland it worked but the rest not.

maestegmafia wrote:Stephen jones is an absolute idiot...!

Always kicks the ball away when his side need possession and are doing something with it...

Thank go he wont play for wales again, he's been doing the same for years

Seriously???

maestegmafia wrote:Always kicks the ball away when his side need possession and are doing something with it...

He only does it when the pack he is playing behind is on the back foot, he plays differently when his pack are going forward.
I think the Scarlets can be pleased with the losing bonus point.

It's very hard to win at Ulster.

Good effort Scarlets did well to get a point.

AlynDavies wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Always kicks the ball away when his side need possession and are doing something with it...

He only does it when the pack he is playing behind is on the back foot, he plays differently when his pack are going forward.
I think the Scarlets can be pleased with the losing bonus point.

It's very hard to win at Ulster.

Remember Wales v New Zealand 2004 ?

so your using a single game 7 years ago to justify a sweeping statement about a players whole career?

gowales wrote:Remember Wales v New Zealand 2004 ?

No I don;t but I will take a wild guess and say we lost the game?

Well he does it over and over again. Im not saying hes a bad player far from it i respect him highly but i have noticed this trend

AlynDavies wrote:

gowales wrote:Remember Wales v New Zealand 2004 ?

No I don;t but I will take a wild guess and say we lost the game?

We had an overlap in overtime and he kicked it and we lost

It's funny coz watching him last season and the season before for the Scarlets all that stands out in my mind was him controlling terrority when we were under pressure and behind a beaten pack, but when we were on the attack he was the start of loads of our great tries - enabling the midfield to run really good angles before given them the ball as they were hitting a gap

By the way - who is this guy Ciaran Murphy anyone?

The Scarlets number 8?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2049656/Scarlets-31-Leicester-3-Kieran-Murphy-tames-toothless-Tigers.html

This really puts into perspective one of the reasons why Carter is considered one of the best 10's around, he's seldom known to kick possession away unnecessarily.

Jones deserves greater respect than some are giving him but needless to say he's sent the odd senseless kick or five aloft in his career.

Artful_Dodger wrote:By the way - who is this guy Ciaran Murphy anyone?

Don't hold your breathe, he's not Irish

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=kieran%20murphy%20rugby&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CCIQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FKieran_Murphy&ei=Lj3ZTpylDoqhOpTi5NIO&usg=AFQjCNEs5VyIsNSI7O1Cb5wGxT0y4oEadQ

lol yeh the Irish name had me interested, looks a handy little player. Can't complain Ireland got their hands on Rhy Ruddock after all

we'd better blydi win this game tomorrow. Scarlets and Blues would have had a decent chance tonight but wasted for a pointless friendly

Indeed - With all the Wales squad call ups it was always going to be a tall order for the regions this weekend - cannot wait for Scarlets vs Munster next week though.

If anybody says anything about excuses there'll be trouble!

Artful_Dodger wrote:lol yeh the Irish name had me interested, looks a handy little player. Can't complain Ireland got their hands on Rhy Ruddock after all

Don't worry you can keep him

Scarlets would have shafted us tonight had they the first team out. I always make a point of staying to clap the Ulster team off but i felt gutted after tonight and couldnt bring myself to do it.

That was a B team and no mistake. Dont get me wrong i thought the Scarlets were game but they were lacking in quality in many positions and with the amount of breaks/half breaks we made that is a point given away. Kicking the ball out at the end when we were attacking may be prudent but i see little pride in this Ulster team.

To go through the team

1. Court- Seemed to have the upper hand in the scrum and was decent in the loose in the 1st half
2. Best- Less conspicuous than previously but very solid and great support for the first try
3. Afoa- Poor guy is probably wrecked. Looks a very good acquisition and a good bit of business.
4. Muller- I would put him in the same category as Best. You can see him trying to instill confidence in those struggling but he needs help.
5. Tuohy- Can frustrate me but showed up well before being replaced.
6. Ferris- Best player on the pitch by a country mile but badly at fault for the last try.
7. Henry- Solid. Did really well in contact but struggled to slow the ball down at times. Another decent show.
8. Wanneburg- Does good work but gave away the first try (i think) and just ok.
9. Marshall- his delivery isnt brilliant but it has improved massively and i say that as one of his biggest critics. 2 quick breaks totally changed the game. Unfortunate to be withdrawn imo.
10. Humphreys- Nightmare; I fail to see what we lose with Jackson or even Pienaar at 10. He needs dropped; end of story.
11. Gilroy- where is his confidence. He was embarassing for the scarlets 2nd and his first instinct seems now to kick sadly. When he did run it he beat the first man continually; needs to learn to offload
12. Spence- as good a showing he has had for a good while. He is pacy and powerful. Simple fact is he cannot pass. Once he tried it and he threw it into the back of a scarlets player. If Rollands forward pass call on him was right then that is shocking! Excellent in defence.
13. Cave- Mixed bag. Some nice stuff but he missed a tackle for the 2nd try (although he may have been let down by others)
14. Trimble- As poor as he has been in a while for me. again first instinct is kick for the form back in the country???
15.D'arcy- I thought he was solid and good going forward. On this performance he doesnt deserve to be dropped but he is in line to be. Some players will retain their place no matter how poorly they play and others will lose it no matter how well.

I am really really disappointed and angry.

Wannenburg was pants, and shocking pass at the start to give Scarlets the front foot. Henry should start 8 with Faloon 7. Ulster need to stop pissing around and start playing their best players. Humphreys was shocking yet Pienaar replaced Marshall and not Humphreys. I have a feeling that they planned their subs before the game started and just stuck to it. Marshall should keep the 9 jersey. Spence I thought was brilliant bar a few errors. Must start at 13 to me. Cave did not have a good game again. D'Arcy played well I thought.

Our team for the next fixture:

1) Court
2) Best
3) Afoa
4) Muller
5) Tuohy/Stevenson
6) Ferris
7) Faloon
8) Henry
9) Marshall
10) Pienaar
11) Gilroy
12) Marshall
13) Spence/Cave
14) Trimble
15) D'Arcy

We played well in patches but we should NOT have given away the losing bonus point. We simply aren't clinical enough.

Marshall doesn't deserve to be dropped whilst Humphreys is in the team; McLaughs make the right call and bring Pienaar in to play 10!

But we improved on last week, especially in attack, and we needed that win. Thank god for Ferris...

Sadly Marshall isnt an option.

I was really impressed by Spence in contact Rory. Took the high tackle for instance and got up and ploughed on like a champ. Im not sure we can accomodate him until he learns to pass.

He threw one forward in the first half for a walk in try, and in the 2nd he didnt even look outside him until the time he threw it into the back of a scarlets player. he is limited in this regard and the thing is i actually think it has got worse not better. Coaching issue for me. Raw talent is there.

Why not Stand? He's worked incredibly hard on his game, had a stormer last time out against Leicester and is in some of his best form. He's like Humphreys in that he's a liability off form, an absolute liability. But so long as he's on form and Humphreys isn't the case for Pienaar at 10 gets stronger.

I was referring to Luke against aironi Notch.

I agree completely as one of Small Pauls loudest critics he cannot be dropped and Humph retained.

Marshall/Pienaar at half back for me.

Standulstermen wrote:Sadly Marshall isnt an option.

I was really impressed by Spence in contact Rory. Took the high tackle for instance and got up and ploughed on like a champ. Im not sure we can accomodate him until he learns to pass.

He threw one forward in the first half for a walk in try, and in the 2nd he didnt even look outside him until the time he threw it into the back of a scarlets player. he is limited in this regard and the thing is i actually think it has got worse not better. Coaching issue for me. Raw talent is there.

That is his strength, his direct running, power in the contact and his defence. He also is quite a good distributor/off-loader as well (not for a 12), but I think his handling skills are a rusty due to as you say bad coaching and man management. He has to start for me. If Marshall or Wallace aren't options at 12 I would play our last proper option at 12 (Whitten). Or else move Cave inside. Spence is an outside back at outside centre or wing.

His forward pass you refer to was the one to Cave I believe? Cave was not deep enough and too far ahead. His pass inside which hit a scarlets player was poor, but that was his only mistake really all match. Cave made a number of missed tackles and handling errors from what I can remember. Was not too impressed by him. I do think Spence should be starting over him, though the sad truth is he won't.

Luke Marshall is not in out HEC squad.

Spence is very impressive physically, outstanding in fact. He still needs to drastically improve his handling, offloading and passing if he wants to be a great centre otherwise he'll end up on the wing.

His coaches have failed him thus far. I want to keep McLaughlin but he needs better coaches around him. He needs more input from better coaches.

Cant agree Rory. Cave took that pass well in front of him so a body pass that would even have had him away and clear. Cave was guilty of a few of these two i agree.

I still think Cave is the best option at 13 (at the minute) but for me the big issue is coaching for the backs and also the fact that our two ball playing centres are injured/not an option. It all goes back to the selection at the start of the season for me. We should always have played either Paddy or Marshall at 12.

I agree totally that Spence is an outside back and is imo very reminiscent of Trimble. He needs proper coaching to make he doesnt have the wasted years that Trimble had though.

MrsP

That fact is a massive indictment on the Ulster coaching team although i do agree with Notch that a strong backs coach could massively improve us.

Good comparison to Trimble there! I totally agree with that, and hopefully we will see the same impact that Trimble has now for both Ulster and Ireland, but at a much earlier stage for Spence. Would be interesting if O'Malley and Spence were a centre partnership, as O'Malley reminds me of a young D'Arcy.

Stupid decision to not include Marshall in the HEC squad. It shows that our only proper option right now at 12 is Wallace. Who is injured of course. Our young players such as Marshall, Gilroy, Spence, McAllister and possibly others I have left out have not been hitting the heights of last season, and I think it shows that they have been very badly managed.

I have already mentioned Spence;

Gilroy looks solid under the high ball etc but looks like he is curbing his instincts in attack- idiotic
Marshall- hasnt had a decent chance
McAllister- i would say likewise but there was a big issue with fitness and him carrying an injury earlier this year.

Was young Luke not out with a fractured jaw when the deadline for the Hec Squad came around?

There might have been concerns over his recovery time?