The Lions 2009

This clip is immense and I defy anyone from Britain or Ireland not to get goosebumps watching it.

My favourite bit is around 0.50 when Phil Vickery starts pushing Andrew Sheridan around....hilarious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSrkDoguYno&feature=related

I think they're arguing over who is the more overrated scrummager.

I was waiting for something like that.

Putting our countries rivalries aside is what makes The Lions so amazing. Why don't you just sit back and enjoy the clip, regardless of what you think of the players?

So are you saying that if someone doesn't rate a player its due to xenophobia rather than any other reason ?

I love cheering along the Lions but if a player is gash then he's gash - Welsh,Irish,Scottish or English

And to be fair Vickery was awful and should've been replaced by Adam soon as the 2nd half began, he made the Beast his teddy bear.

Had Euan Murray been fit I wouldn't have thought Vickery would have got nowhere near the test side. In the 1st test, the Beast really made him suffer.

Compare that to the 2nd test when the beast looked reluctant to pack down against Jones for more punishment.

In Vickery's defence though it must have been hard to aggresivley Scrummage with Lee Mears at hooker. The all Welsh front row had a massive advantage since Rees is a powerful guy, Vickery also performed better in the 3rd test with Rees and Ford at hooker so perhaps not all the blame can be placed at his door.

I agree,Vickery was alot better in the 3rd test.

Mears has a lot of good points as a player in the loose, but I always thought as well as depowering the scrum by his lack of bulk, he unbalanced the tall props that England have used over the last several years. Put him between the French props (at 1.8m tall) and he'd be much more effective in the scrum than between Vickery (1.93m) and Sheridan (1.96m).

Of course the other issue with scrums is how good the ref is at spotting who is boring in, pulling down and generally being a nuisance - some refs let loose heads get away with much more than others.

Can anyone rem,ember whu Rees was starting the first test?

munkian wrote:I love cheering along the Lions but if a player is gash then he's gash

thank god someone else on here uses the word gash. i thought i was alone!

Not all the blame of the scrum can be laid at Vickerys door, but i dare anyone to defend how terrible he played in those tests. He's a very good and experienced front rower, no doubt skilled in more of the 'dark arts' than Ive heard about, so you would have expected him to be able to alter things. Anyway, he did a lot better in the 3rd test with a more balanced front row as has been said.

By the way, if anyone didnt know, Phil Vickery has retired.

cabbagesandbrussels wrote:I was waiting for something like that.

Putting our countries rivalries aside is what makes The Lions so amazing. Why don't you just sit back and enjoy the clip, regardless of what you think of the players?

+1

Great dvd, I have the 97 aswell

Anyone know if the 2001 or 2005 ones are worth getting?

There's some big units in that changing room.

I was at all 3 tests

vickery sadly was out of his depth , as was mears who started at 2. monye had a mare, croft was awesome.

ROG's competitive spirit manifested as a moment of madness and cost us the 2nd test and it was gone

3rd test somewhat hollow in that it proved we could have won all 3, in my opinion selection in the first test was

GASH

Best rugby tour i ever went on

To be fair to Vickery he would have held his own 7 years prior but he just isn't up to it any more,
then looking at Mears who is only around 15st and mainly chubby with little muscle mass all the Beast had to do was bore in just a little bit and Vickery had to much work to do,

In that second test thou when Adam won a penalty against the head at our line for a scrum five that was pretty much a career defining moment.

I hope the Lions never dies

it IS rugby and as far as i know there is no other sport that does it

True, 'Team GB' won't have any of the same camaraderie

Hear hear Gatts.

0.29 seconds. I know that photographer fella, he's from Tallaght! Possibly the best job in the world.

No arguements from me that Adam Jones should have started instead of Phil Vickery but to be fair to Phil... Lee Mears is a light weight hooker in the modern game and didn't really give Vickery anything to pack down with.

Speaking as a LH prop myself I was jumping up & down screaming at the TV because I could clearly see that the beast was boring in sideways and driving upwards instead of flat.... the fecking ref was allowing him to do it and then pinging Vickery for not stopping Beast from cheating!!! Crazy.

Didn't Bryuce Lawrence apologise to Vickery (and/or the Lions) afterwards?

Metal Tiger wrote:No arguements from me that Adam Jones should have started instead of Phil Vickery but to be fair to Phil... Lee Mears is a light weight hooker in the modern game and didn't really give Vickery anything to pack down with.

Speaking as a LH prop myself I was jumping up & down screaming at the TV because I could clearly see that the beast was boring in sideways and driving upwards instead of flat.... the fecking ref was allowing him to do it and then pinging Vickery for not stopping Beast from cheating!!! Crazy.

True, In fairness to the Iron Chef the ref really should have been looking at the other side of the scrum

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Didn't Bryuce Lawrence apologise to Vickery (and/or the Lions) afterwards?

I heared that one too but can't confirm it one way or the other. But hey, it wouldn't be the first time a ref has got it completely wrong at scrum time.

The whole of the 2009 tour left something of a bad taste in the mouth for me as, rightly or wrongly, I very much had the impression at the time that during the warm up games that the Bokkes were deliberately targeting key Lions players & trying to injure them out prior to the tests.

Don't even get me started on the 'moment of madness' from ROG. Great player though he is... what was he thinking!?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Had Euan Murray been fit I wouldn't have thought Vickery would have got nowhere near the test side. In the 1st test, the Beast really made him suffer.

Compare that to the 2nd test when the beast looked reluctant to pack down against Jones for more punishment.

In Vickery's defence though it must have been hard to aggresivley Scrummage with Lee Mears at hooker. The all Welsh front row had a massive advantage since Rees is a powerful guy, Vickery also performed better in the 3rd test with Rees and Ford at hooker so perhaps not all the blame can be placed at his door.

Euan Murray!!! Hahaha!

Metal Tiger wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Didn't Bryuce Lawrence apologise to Vickery (and/or the Lions) afterwards?

I heared that one too but can't confirm it one way or the other. But hey, it wouldn't be the first time a ref has got it completely wrong at scrum time.

The whole of the 2009 tour left something of a bad taste in the mouth for me as, rightly or wrongly, I very much had the impression at the time that during the warm up games that the Bokkes were deliberately targeting key Lions players & trying to injure them out prior to the tests.

Don't even get me started on the 'moment of madness' from ROG. Great player though he is... what was he thinking!?

ROG knew only a win could leave the series open but it was never a pen in my view

I heard he got filled in in the changing room, not sure if anyone else has any info on that, But i recall seeing him come out after the 3rd test looking very sheepish as he walked towards me under the posts...possibly a black eye.

Poor judgment cost us the tour by ROG and ref

Vickery got the rough end of the stick in that test. The referee had a shocker, blew for the beast in the first scrum and then decided that he would win every scrum since. Even though at that time, beast was a poor scrummager. It was only when we made the change of personnel that the ref started again with a clean slate and realised that Beast was boring in. Having said that, you would want Adam Jones in there every time anyways......don't get me started on Sheridan. Useless

tafka iwoveyou wrote:Great dvd, I have the 97 aswell

Anyone know if the 2001 or 2005 ones are worth getting?

2001 is brilliant! Watched it countless times. So close to winning the series despite awful injuries. Has the ROG/McRae moment and Jason robinsons debut tour. Also the Dawson comeback. Cracking video. Bet it makes you think twice about Graham Henry though!

I agree ref Sheridan

He is like Ferdinand the flower smelling bull, if he was nasty, as any front rower should be, he would be the most devastating prop on the planet but all he wants to do is be nice and lacks any sort of aggression.

when he is aggressive, he is a very very talented guy. A monster in the loose and a decent scrummager.
But yes, he just looks timid out their on the field. The lions did bring a fair bit of intensity to his game though.

cabbagesandbrussels wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Had Euan Murray been fit I wouldn't have thought Vickery would have got nowhere near the test side. In the 1st test, the Beast really made him suffer.

Compare that to the 2nd test when the beast looked reluctant to pack down against Jones for more punishment.

In Vickery's defence though it must have been hard to aggresivley Scrummage with Lee Mears at hooker. The all Welsh front row had a massive advantage since Rees is a powerful guy, Vickery also performed better in the 3rd test with Rees and Ford at hooker so perhaps not all the blame can be placed at his door.

Euan Murray!!! Hahaha!

Cabbages - I love your constant reiterations that you don't, in fact, know anything at all.

15 November 2008 - despite the defeat, Mtawarira got his backside handed to him by Murray:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/nov/17/rugbyunion-autumn-internationals2

20 November 2010 - my goodness me, it happened again, and the result was different this time:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/nov/20/scotland-south-africa-autumn-international

But perhaps I am missing the nuances of your eloquently worded analysis.