Vitali

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Most here have predicted a Vitali win over haye. If (for me when) Haye wins, will Vitali suddenly become old and washed up and no credit given to Haye?

Vitali should retire in my opinion. He must crave the one more big fight (and payday) though. Even at 40 Haye will give him very little problems. I for one would love a match up against Haye if only to see another Klitschko beat him up some more

Steffan wrote:Vitali should retire in my opinion. He must crave the one more big fight (and payday) though. Even at 40 Haye will give him very little problems. I for one would love a match up against Haye if only to see another Klitschko beat him up some more

If/when he knocks out Haye i'd imagine he will retire.

He's fought pretty much everyone else and beaten them in fights where he's barely lost a round. Same goes for Wlad in all honesty although he still has Adamek/Arreola to get through if he chose to.

Lewis would be the only name that would generate interest in America, but he looks about 300lbs at present and appears to lack the will to do it one last time.

rowley wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

rowley wrote:

azania wrote:Rowley, you want me gone after my absense. I thought you of all people missed my wonderful insight into the oldies.

I missed you the way I miss Hi-Di-Hi and Bros.

Hi-Di-Hi was class Jeff! I liked the silly humour enveloped in a peculiar sense of melancholy and sadness.

Bros though were absolute pants yes.

Did like Ted Bovis, Paul Shane lives not far away from me, is often seen in the boozers around this neck of the woods. Would apologise for going off topic, but given the other option appears to be a coxy-az meltdown would guess some 80's sitcom discussion would be seen as welcome.

Gosh Ted Bovis is still going! He must be like 102. Why is it he never wore the yellow coat like the others had to?

Naturally everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I honestly don't understand how anyone can believe Haye can beat VK, purely based on his record as a HW or even a CW. What has he done to suggest he can beat VK?

What did he do in the Mormec, Macrenelli, Barratt, Valuev, Ruiz, Harrison, Wlad fights? Where are the combinations, footwork, vareity, ducking/parrying, stamina?

I'll admit Haye is markedly better than the Peter's and Adamek's of the world, but not even that comes close to beating the K's in my opinion.

I'm more than happy for people to make counter-arguements, I just can't see the evidence on which such an argument would be based on.

Its not exactly what he has done but what I reckon he can do and how far VK has deteriorated. A CW version of VK in his prime would beat Haye.

azania wrote:Its not exactly what he has done but what I reckon he can do and how far VK has deteriorated. A CW version of VK in his prime would beat Haye.

And this is the exact point. I can't really understand why people have become so heated about this. Az reckons that Haye is capable of more than he's ever shown and VK has deteriorated more than he's shown.

ie - he reckons Haye will fulfill his potential and VK will grow old overnight in 1 fight.

He's entitled to this opinion - so why are people heated about it? Its not like he's suggested something foolish like Sibson beats Greb...

azania wrote:Its not exactly what he has done but what I reckon he can do and how far VK has deteriorated. A CW version of VK in his prime would beat Haye.

Thats fair enough, but I would be curious to know how you arrive at that conclusion. How do you think he can aviod VK's punches? Is he going to bob and weave like a Frazier or Tyson? Is he going to hit often enough to trouble Vitali and/or impress the judges bearing in mind the fight will most likely be in Germany? I would agree that Vitali has slowed down somewhat, but I still feel he is 10X more mobile than Valuev. Surley you would agree that if he just reproduces the tactics used against Valuev it won't be enough.

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:Its not exactly what he has done but what I reckon he can do and how far VK has deteriorated. A CW version of VK in his prime would beat Haye.

And this is the exact point. I can't really understand why people have become so heated about this. Az reckons that Haye is capable of more than he's ever shown and VK has deteriorated more than he's shown.

ie - he reckons Haye will fulfill his potential and VK will grow old overnight in 1 fight.

He's entitled to this opinion - so why are people heated about it? Its not like he's suggested something foolish like Sibson beats Greb...

I cant understand why people get heated in debating boxing. Its only opinions after all. VK is ponderous and slow. He never was fleetfooted or had fast hands. WHat he was good at was controlling range and distance. But no way as good as Wlad. He is hitable But can take a punch well. Offensively he looks good, especially against boxers with stationary head and body a la Peters and Briggs. Loked brilliant against Adamek. Then again so did Grant look a decent fighter against Adamek.

Now it brings us to Haye. He is no fool. Can he devise a tactic (hate the term game plan as its no game being punched in the head) that can take advantage of VK's vulerability which are numerous. His current HW adventure says a resounding NO. Many have described him purely as a pot shotter and ambush fighter based on Valuev and Wlad. Against Val, he chose the correct tactic. He was hampered by an injured right hand. Against Wlad imo he went in there thinking that a punch would win the fight for him. If he hasn't learned from that he will lose. His CW resume shows a boxer with a decent variety of punches and styles. He can jab and move. If he adopts a tyson and frazier approach he will lose. That is not his style. Imo what he will have ot do it stay out of range, but step in more often with feignts and leading with the jab. VK relies on his chin, but his that often enough he will raise his hands to protect his chin leaving his body exposed. Haye will have to vary his attacks. Does he have the ability to do that? I believe he does. Can he do that and evade VK's punches. Yes.

There you go. Put your mortgages on it. Leave your wives (or boyfriend ) and bet everything on what I say.

VK is 40, slow and past it. He hasn;t grown old overnight although I reckon that excuse will be thrown up as soon as haye wins. I have said prior to the Wlad fight that Haye would lose to Wlad and beat VK. Go back to those threads and see for yourself. Oxy you are very anal about such things, so please find it for me.

Oh and I stand my what I said. Sibbo would beat Greb. Hamsho would have given him a rough tough night also.

I'm not great at finding old posts from eons ago - but I'm pretty sure you did pick Az.

Hamsho probably does give Greb a tough night to be fair. Greb's hands would get tired of administering the abuse.

oxring wrote:I'm not great at finding old posts from eons ago - but I'm pretty sure you did pick Az.

Hamsho probably does give Greb a tough night to be fair. Greb's hands would get tired of administering the abuse.

Greb lacks basic fundermentals. He cant even hit a stationary heavy bag let alone a stationary Hamsho. Moreover did Greb actually exist?

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:I'm not great at finding old posts from eons ago - but I'm pretty sure you did pick Az.

Hamsho probably does give Greb a tough night to be fair. Greb's hands would get tired of administering the abuse.

Greb lacks basic fundermentals. He cant even hit a stationary heavy bag let alone a stationary Hamsho. Moreover did Greb actually exist?

Tunney, among others, thought differently.

Considering that Tunney shared a ring with him more often than you make a sensible comment about pre war boxing I'm inclined to value his opinion over yours.

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:I'm not great at finding old posts from eons ago - but I'm pretty sure you did pick Az.

Hamsho probably does give Greb a tough night to be fair. Greb's hands would get tired of administering the abuse.

Greb lacks basic fundermentals. He cant even hit a stationary heavy bag let alone a stationary Hamsho. Moreover did Greb actually exist?

Tunney, among others, thought differently.

Considering that Tunney shared a ring with him more often than you make a sensible comment about pre war boxing I'm inclined to value his opinion over yours.

Audley Harrison owns him. Audley Harrison is now the true HumanWindmill - largely because he windmills back when someone tries to touch gloves.

Ha!

It's all about destiny, Shah. Audley can have it. Our Harry is long gone and it's a bit late in the day for me to do anything of note. ( There's also the little issue of talent, but that's another story. )

Audley Harrison - ' The Human Windmill. '

Yep. it has a nice ring to it.

Are we arguing that Hamsho beats Audley Harrison?

I'm not much of an Audley fan - but I don't think he's that bad.

BTW - Az - I know you're wumming and all - but whilst I'm playing along - whose fundamentals were worse in your eyes - Johnson or Greb?

oxring wrote:Are we arguing that Hamsho beats Audley Harrison?

I'm not much of an Audley fan - but I don't think he's that bad.

BTW - Az - I know you're wumming and all - but whilst I'm playing along - whose fundamentals were worse in your eyes - Johnson or Greb?

Never seen Greb fight. I've seen him attempt to jump rope and punch a heavy bag (if it was him) and it was like watching benny Hill.

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:Are we arguing that Hamsho beats Audley Harrison?

I'm not much of an Audley fan - but I don't think he's that bad.

BTW - Az - I know you're wumming and all - but whilst I'm playing along - whose fundamentals were worse in your eyes - Johnson or Greb?

Never seen Greb fight. I've seen him attempt to jump rope and punch a heavy bag (if it was him) and it was like watching benny Hill.

Your opinions regarding pre war fighters are about as valuable as those of Jimmy Hill, Graham Hill, the clowns on Capitol Hill and the producers of Grange Hill.

Az - Wummery is illegal - and before Windy blows a gasket - I'm gonna have to issue a warning.

Warning. Please stop wumming.

3:04 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOvtofjL1i8

That Ali looks a bum. Can't hurt a bigger man and has a slower jab than a tall fat man. No footwork at all.

I doubt he could skip or hit a heavy bag.