606v2 Greatest Test Opening Batsmen Rankings

First topic message reminder :

Morning all

Sorry for the delay in getting the middle order batsmen results sorted, I'll do that in the next day or so.

Meanwhile, we might as well get the voting for the top 10 greatest Test opening batsmen under way.

Same rules apply, post-war batsmen only (those that played both can be considered if their body of work post-war warrants their inclusion).

In order, please.

Thanks.

They haven't done nearly enough for long enough.


Exactly my point Guildford, nor did Richards in Test cricket. The thread is about Test cricket only. So it is not possible for Richards to be the best Test opener based on only four games.
Please do not get me wrong on this because if we said only best opener, then of course I like many others would have him as an all time great. Only befitting to a man with such remarkable talent.

Not much use for a cricket bat on Skye, well maybe for the wife. Ouch

JD, Fists and Skye - thanks for your responses.

As Fists says, ''Sometimes you just know.''

Very fine points from you, JD. Stats obviously come into it and can't be overlooked but the thrill of seeing class before your eyes will never leave you.

I do believe some here who would have seen Richards at his peak - at least on tv - are being governed by perceived rules as to a minimum number of test appearances for judging test greatness but that is their call to make as they see fit.

As I said the other night, a giant remains a giant even if we're largely prohibited from seeing him.

Allow me to lob in a scary thought. Maybe Richards' stature would have grown even further and his batting average risen higher still in a regular and motivating test environment. We'll never know but perhaps that merits a quick thought as others automatically assume his test average would have dropped with more matches. It probably would and certainly should have done but I've already said Richards is the exception to most rules!

Skye - we agree on Richards being a great opener but not on the eligibility requirements for our top ten test openers. I'm sure we can both live with that. After all, others have to put up with far more. Btw, how is Mrs Skyeman?

guildfordbat wrote:JD, Fists and Skye - thanks for your responses.

As Fists says, ''Sometimes you just know.''

Very fine points from you, JD. Stats obviously come into it and can't be overlooked but the thrill of seeing class before your eyes will never leave you.

I do believe some here who would have seen Richards at his peak - at least on tv - are being governed by perceived rules as to a minimum number of test appearances for judging test greatness but that is their call to make as they see fit.

As I said the other night, a giant remains a giant even if we're largely prohibited from seeing him.

Allow me to lob in a scary thought. Maybe Richards' stature would have grown even further and his batting average risen higher still in a regular and motivating test environment. We'll never know but perhaps that merits a quick thought as others automatically assume his test average would have dropped with more matches. It probably would and certainly should have done but I've already said Richards is the exception to most rules!

Skye - we agree on Richards being a great opener but not on the eligibility requirements for our top ten test openers. I'm sure we can both live with that. After all, others have to put up with far more. Btw, how is Mrs Skyeman?

Guildford - Such a gentleman, Yes of course we can. Lucky to have me

Just watched the Richards video. One word - magnificent. Will discuss more tomorrow.

Night chaps.

Fists of Fury wrote:Just watched the Richards video. One word - magnificent. Will discuss more tomorrow.

Night chaps.

No expense spared on an evening with the girlfriend, eh Fists?

JDizzle wrote:
.... And I do! I feel that I abused my time with Eddie whereas other people would have made much more valuable with it!

JD - It's understandable that you want to kick yourself but that would serve no purpose and Eddie Barlow, by many accounts, was such a lovely man he would never have thought to hold it against you.

If it is any consolation, many of us make similar errors when we're young. My great uncle was a professional footballer in the 1920s and early '30s. His sporting career never came anywhere near to even remotely reaching the heights of Eddie's but was nonetheless an interesting one. Although in many ways an early journeyman footballer, he played at the top tier of league football in England and Scotland enjoying a short time in the sun. Although impressed as a boy to have a former professional footballer in the family, the names of old team mates and opponents he used to regularly reel off meant nothing to me and I shamefully would too often just switch off. It was only after he died (in 1989) and I inherited his press cuttings etc, that I took a real interest and researched his career together with football as a whole at that time. How much easier and enjoyable it would have been to do it with him when I had the opportunity ....

Sunil Gavaskar
Len Hutton
Matthew Hayden
Graeme Smith
Virender Sehwag
Geoffrey Boycott
Arthur Morris
Gordon Greenidge
Bill Lawry
Bobby Simpson

followed by (in no particular order):

Alastair Cook
Justin Langer
Dennis Amiss
Hanif Mohammad
Rohan Kanhai
Desmond Haynes
Graeme Gooch
Saeed Anwar

I was lucky enough to see Barry Richards in action - powerful elegance personified... but tend to agree with Skye above. Top 10 Test Openers is what we're after so unfortunately he fails to meet the criteria with only 4 Tests to his name. I wish it were more though...

As for Sehwag - have to include him. Best opener by a mile in the last decade. OK, no footwork and a vicious slogger but he has had some immense stays at the crease under very trying conditions against some of the best bowling attacks - and as much as I would prefer to watch classical stroke-play he has the runs on the board.

I know Boycott isn't too popular on this board but I remember the agony of him at the crease (for what seemed half of the 1980s).
I would be listening to the commentary beside the pool - have 5 swims, take the dog for a walk, ride my bike up to the shops for an ice cream... and the baaastard would still be at the crease on only 55 or something.
Then Gooch would hang around for bit too... double the pain!

I honestly believe Alastair Cook is a gem of a player. A genuine gem. I mean look at his stats for the last year or so. Sickening average against Australia (in the last Ashes Series), SL and now India - but I'll concede he was such a pleasure to watch last summer here; and your last summer just passed. Such control at the crease, perfect shot selection... surely it can't last... surely?

I was even tempted to put him at 9 or 10 on the list but if he continues in his current form for the next few seasons it won't be long before he is midway up the list or even higher.

Guildford, just out of curiosity, how would you then rate Brett Schults?

He only played nine test before injry ended his career.

He took 37 wickets at an average of 20.24, strike rate of 46.8.

Now I was of the opinion that he could have been a great.

Biltong,

I tend to agree with you that ''he could have been a great''. His figures and reports of his bowling (when injury free) are certainly impressive.

With a little sadness, I have to say that for me Schultz wasn't a great. Largely this is because - unlike Richards - injury never gave him the opportunity to sufficiently prove to my satisfaction over a period of years what he would have achieved at test level.

That said, I didn't see him play (other than the odd glimpse on tv) and so accept I'm not the best to judge.

My final word on Richards. Richards' greatness for me is not because of what he did in four tests but in spite of him having played only four tests.

Regarding B Richards.
I'm sorry but we're guessing he would have been a great TEST opener but we will never know.

Stella wrote:Regarding B Richards.
I'm sorry

Stella - apology accepted!

Great words Guildord! Just be greatful for what we know about them now!

guildfordbat wrote:

Stella wrote:Regarding B Richards.
I'm sorry

Stella - apology accepted!

JDizzle wrote:Great words Guildord! Just be greatful for what we know about them now!

Thanks, JD.

Linebreaker - a highly decent list of your own top ten and near misses.

As for Boycott, I suffered him from the late 1960s so consider yourself lucky that your pain wasn't inflicted until more than a decade later! A tremendous talent with equal if not greater dedication but undone for me by inner selfisness and a disregard for team play.

One petty quibble on the near misses. Kanhai may have opened but I always regard him as an excellent middle order - especially number three - batsman for the Windies and Warks.

Mention of Kanhai. I saw two terrific innings by him. The first was a blistering 77 to help win the famous 1963 Oval Test when everyone came on the pitch at the end.
The second a one-day Wrwks v Northants match at Northampton when he was 91 going into the last over and finished on 119 - with Sarfraz bowling ! Terrific player.

Hutton
Gavaskar
Greenidge
Morris
Lawry
Haynes
Sehwag
Smith
Hayden
Simpson

Not too specific about the order, mentions in despatches for Boycott, Amiss and Cook.

Yes Guildford & Sir Fred,

Kanhai was more of a middle order player I know and scored the majority of his runs there. Baptism of fire for him though when he first came onto the the scene as an opener. Thought he deserves a mention somewhere... the middle order is going to be quite busy I feel!

We've done it, Linebreaker.

I don't think we've had the results though, although I think some Aussie from Bowral (is that right) might win it.

So we're not going to do it again just to be sure?

Yes Bowral, then he later lived in Adelaide. I was in the Members Stand (in the early 90s) and about 5m away from him. I looked up and he was staring right at me (I thought) but it turned out he was looking at something more interesting beyond me. However, he then did notice me and gave me a sort of half wink as if to say... 'enjoy the day, sonny...' I was tickled pink to say the least.

Fists of Fury wrote:Just watched the Richards video. One word - magnificent. Will discuss more tomorrow.

Night chaps.

Fists - I've said too much on this already but would value hearing your views.

Barry Richards
Gavaskar
Hutton
Arthur Morris
Boycott
Gooch
Hanif Mohammed
Lawry
Greenidge
Conrad Hunte

Sorry forgot I had mentioned the Barry Richards video. I'll have another look at the video when home tomorrow night and share my views.

Cheers.

Kwini, solid list. Results of these to be tallied Thursday.

Thanks to all that have voted.

Fists,

Realise you have a lot on. Besides the cricket board, cheering on the Villa and placating an unappreciative girlfriend for instance!

However, if you are able to confirm the Top Ten on this thread it might help us in deciding one way or the other the case for Greenidge on the Hall of Fame.

Thanks as ever, Guildford

Very good point, Guildford, I'll tally those in a moment.

Cheers, Fists.

Let me post my own, results to follow shortly:

1. Hutton
2. Hobbs
3. Gavaskar
4. B Richards
5. Greenidge
6. Hayden
7. Sehwag
8. Morris
9. Simpson
10. Smith

Fists of Fury wrote:Let me post my own, results to follow shortly:

1. Hutton
2. Hobbs
3. Gavaskar
4. B Richards
5. Greenidge
6. Hayden
7. Sehwag
8. Morris
9. Simpson
10. Smith

Hobbs was pre war

Yep, completely forgot our own rules on that one, I had been reading about him that morning, given that it had recently been his birthday!

Fists of Fury wrote:Yep, completely forgot our own rules on that one, I had been reading about him that morning, given that it had recently been his birthday!

Didn't think you meant Robin

Alfie - Although I fear most here are too old for that one - sadly, not me

do you mean too young? Because, sir, you certainly are old enough!

Spot on, Fists!

Enter Facepalm stage left ....

Unless it is a very well orchestrated wind up, some posters appear to be having difficulty in selecting Barry Richards for a place in the 606 v2 Hall of Fame. Earlier postings on this thread might help to shine a light for those who do not choose to live in darkness.