Cardiff vs Edinburgh Discussion Thread

[RuggerRadge2611]

Well my Welsh brothers and sisters it is nearly time for another Celtic Capital clash.

It sees a repeat of the first match of the Season for both clubs as Cardiff came to Edinburgh and convincingly hammered us in our own back yard. A few months later and things are a bit differant with Cardiff getting beaten by a truck load by Leinster. Whilst Edinburgh on the other hand mauled Aironi lst Friday and are sitting pretty at the top of the HC pool after hard fought wins against the Exiles and Racing Metro.

Taken in context it would seem Edinburgh are in the Ascendency however the last few meetings between the 2 teams have gone the way of the Welshmen, will Friday be any differant? Will the winner of the home and a way leg of these games go onto win the pool?

Cardiff Blues
15 Leigh Halfpenny
14 Alex Cuthbert
13 Casey Laulala
12 Jamie Roberts
11 Chris Czekaj
10 Dan Parks
9 Lloyd Williams
8 Xavier Rush
7 Sam Warburton
6 Michael Paterson
5 Paul Tito (c)
4 Bradley Davies
3 Taufa'ao Filise
2 T Rhys Thomas
1 Gethin Jenkins

Substitutes
16 Ryan Tyrell
17 John Yapp
18 Scott Andrews
19 Maama Molitika
20 Josh Navidi
21 Richie Rees
22 Ceri Sweeney
23 Gavin Evans

Edinburgh
15 Chris Paterson
14 Lee Jones
13 Nick De Luca
12 James King
11 Tim Visser
10 Harry Leonard
9 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN
1 Allan Jacobsen
2 Ross Ford
3 Geoff Cross
4 Sean Cox
5 Esteban Lozada
6 David Denton
7 Roddy Grant
8 Stuart McInally

Substitutes
16 Steve Lawrie
17 Kyle Traynor
18 Jack Gilding
19 Steven Turnbull
20 Ross Rennie
21 Mike Blair
22 John Houston
23 Tom Brown

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Radge, I would expect home advantage to decide both legs, so it'll be important for both teams to be picking up bonus points. Cardiff will have their Welsh internationals back, with Dan Parks likely to take over from Ceri Sweeney at 10 if he's recovered from his knock. I think Edinburgh's best chance of taking points on the road will come down to whether Parks has one of his sublime controlling games or whether he's distinctly off colour. The Edinburgh defence will also have to step up to the mark, cos altho they've been scoring freely recently, they've also looked way too many tries as well.

[RuggerRadge2611]

I think you could be right Asbo, I fully expect both teams to hold their home games. However Edinburgh were not given much of a chance against London Irish either but managed to emerge victorious.

Cardiff are a wounded animal at the moment and perhaps they'll be more dangerous because of it. Can't wait for Friday though.

[funnyExiledScot]

Edinburgh should pick Rennie and have him target Parks throughout the game, and force Parks to sit as deep as possible.

King or Scott, whoever is marking Roberts, needs to take a leaf out of the Welsh tactics against Ireland and cut him down at the ankles before he gets going. Stiffle that momentum in the midfield and I don't see why Edinburgh can't take this scalp.

[RDW]

I think we've got to win at least the home or away game from these two fixtures to stand a chance of winning - preferably both.

Cardiff really are our bogey team and for some reason, whether at Glasgow or Cardiff, Dan Parks has saved his best games against Edinburgh.

Really got to tighten our defence up though - yes we can score lots of tries but that's not much use if they do as well!

From an Edinburgh perspective what do you think the back 5 will be? Gilchrist should start and Lozada has been playing very well. However I'd like to see Cox in there instead of Lozada as he offers a lot more physicality.

As for the back row well, where to start?? It's a real area of strength just now with both our 1st and 2nd choice back rows being pretty decent.

I'd like to see

6 - Dumper
7 - Rennie
8 - Rambo

Great combination of power, athleticism and skill.

Is this being shown on Sky?

[RuggerRadge2611]

I'm one of Rennie's biggest fans,I really really mean that. However after the shift that Roddy Grant put in against Aironi I would find it really hard to drop him.

Rennie is a better Scrapper and stripper of the ball while it is moving forward. Warburton's strength lies with scrapping for the ball on the deck. It's a tough call of whether we want Grant's work rate or Rennies smuggling tactics to win the breakdowns.

My team would look something like this :

1. Chunk
2. Ford
3. Cross
4. Gilchrist
5. Lozada
6. Denton
7. Rennie
8. McInally

9. Laidlaw
10. Leonard
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. NDL
14. Jones
15. JT

When defending I woud shift NDL into the 12 berth, he has been making some thumping tackles recently and could be just the ticket to knock the stuffing out of Parks at 10 and chopping Jamie Roberts down at 12. This will kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Parks will be forced to kick and Roberts will be getting the ball so deep that they'll hopefully struggle to break the gain line.

As FES said pretty much all of the Blues momentum comes from using Roberts to batter through the middle, cut that option off and Parks' tactical inflexibility will be exposed.

Certainly for me this is the game I have been most looking forward to all season.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

I think that both Rennie and Grant could do a decent job at openside, and I'm equally comfortable with Mossy (provided the groin strain is truly behind him) or JT at fullback. I'd marginally prefer Lozada over Cox alongside Gilchrist in the boilerroom - Loz was exceptional against RM and I worry that Cox gives away too many penalties (esp up against a kicker like Desparate)

[wales606]

As FES said pretty much all of the Blues momentum comes from using Roberts to batter through the middle, cut that option off and Parks' tactical inflexibility will be exposed.

Ummm, no, id doesnt.

Roberts hasnt played for us this season (bar 14 minutes where he didnt touch the ball). When Roberts does play for us, he doesnt play as well as he does for Wales - Roberts main role is more defensive.

If you want to know who will be crossing the gainline look no further than newest welsh cap Cuthbert, or Czekaj from FB or perhaps T.James off his wing...Laulaula is also a powerful runner. Not to mention B.Davies, G.Jenkins, TRThomas, X.Rush, S.Warburton and Molitika in the forwards.

With Wales, stopping Roberts is an effective strategy. With the Blues, stopping Parks distribution is far more important - and not kicking loose to any of the back3, as they have been running it back to great effect all season.

[LordDowlais]

Blues V Edinburgh is always a good game, I cannot wait. I will be watching this with baited breath. The Blues surely cannot be as bad as last week, can they ?

[XR]

While Edinburgh have performed well this year in the HEC, we still tanked them up there already this season and i believe we will beat them again. But like 606 said, focus on roberts and you're knackered already - he's rarely the focal point of the blues attack, that lies with 11, 13, 14 & 15.

I wouldn't take much notice of the Leinster game, second string team never looked like turning up and didn't. There were guys playing who have been regulars down at cardiff rfc this season and it was just a case of going there, take the hiding and come home.

The welsh players will be up for this and i fully expect our backline to be too much for Edinburgh, if Cuthbert starts at 14 then i think we'll be able to deal with Visser as well. He's a big, quick, physical guy and it'll be interesting how he goes against someone who is in a similiar build in AC

[RuggerRadge2611]

The game earlier on in the season was 2 differant teams compared to who will be playing this Friday. Both Teams will have their internationals back and IMO it's anyones match.

Tis going to be a cracker.

[TJ1]

Gonna be good. Edinburgh need to blitz the blues and especially get parks under pressure. Kicking game needs to be good.

[funnyExiledScot]

If you want to know who will be crossing the gainline look no further than newest welsh cap Cuthbert, or Czekaj from FB or perhaps T.James off his wing...Laulaula is also a powerful runner. Not to mention B.Davies, G.Jenkins, TRThomas, X.Rush, S.Warburton and Molitika in the forwards.

With Wales, stopping Roberts is an effective strategy. With the Blues, stopping Parks distribution is far more important - and not kicking loose to any of the back3, as they have been running it back to great effect all season.

Why is it when you read articles by Welsh posters about Welsh teams you come away thinking that they're talking about the greatest side ever to play the game?

[Imperialbigdave]

I agree that whoever plays openside, Rennie or Grant should look to end Dan Parks' career. Humiliate him, destroy him, ruin him. If De Lucas fit then he can do his best lumberjack impression and cut down anyone who come near him. simples

[IanBru]

Why is it when you read articles by Welsh posters about Welsh teams you come away thinking that they're talking about the greatest side ever to play the game?

Yes, particularly when Laulala, Rush and Molitika were on the very team to be tanked by Leinster last week, and who failed to score any points when they had a one man advantage in the scrum!

Furthermore, how sure are we that the other players will even feature? Czekaj pulled out of last week's game with hamstring trouble (can take rather a long time to heal), while Davies, Jenkins and Warburton will have had just five days to recover from a test match!

Finally, TR Thomas, who has, admittedly, looked pretty useful so far this season, is going up against Ross Ford, the B&I Lion, who is in the best form he's been in for three years.

I'm going to lay my nuts on the table and call this one as a (narrow) away win. Pie gently simmering in the oven.

[wales606]

If you want to know who will be crossing the gainline look no further than newest welsh cap Cuthbert, or Czekaj from FB or perhaps T.James off his wing...Laulaula is also a powerful runner. Not to mention B.Davies, G.Jenkins, TRThomas, X.Rush, S.Warburton and Molitika in the forwards.

With Wales, stopping Roberts is an effective strategy. With the Blues, stopping Parks distribution is far more important - and not kicking loose to any of the back3, as they have been running it back to great effect all season.

Why is it when you read articles by Welsh posters about Welsh teams you come away thinking that they're talking about the greatest side ever to play the game?

??? I was talking about the players we use the carry up and break the gainline, Roberts isnt used that much, so boxing him out of the game is just going to create space outwide.

Dont know where it says that the Blues are the greatest team to play rugby??? They are not in-case you weren't sure...

[funnyExiledScot]

It's ok, I was under no illusions.

[wales606]

For reference, I expect the Blues team will be this...

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. T Rhys Thomas
3. Fau Filise
4. Bradley Davies
5. Paul Tito
6. Michael Paterson
7. Sam Warburton
8. Xavier Rush
9. Lloyd Williams
10. Dan Parks
11. Tom James
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Casey Laulaula (possibly Gavin Evans)
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny (possibly Chris Czekaj)

16. A Rubbish Hooker (Breeze/Tyrell/Williams/My Nan)
17. John Yapp
18. Scott Andrews
19. Andreus Pretorious (if fit) / Josh Navidi
20. Mamma Molitika
21. Ritchie Rees
22. Ceri Sweeney
23. Gavin Evans

[funnyExiledScot]

It's a good side, should be firm favourites. The performance of Parks will obviously be key, if he has a strong game then I can't see Edinburgh getting out of their own half and every transgression will be met with a 3 pointer.

Edinburgh will need to pick a physical pack and really take on this meaty Blues side. Although the likes of Czekaj and James are playing well at the moment, both have been fallible in the past.

I agree with ASBO. Too big an ask in Wales but back at Murrayfield I think Edinburgh may edge it.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

For reference, I expect the Blues team will be this...

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. T Rhys Thomas
3. Fau Filise
4. Bradley Davies
5. Paul Tito
6. Michael Paterson
7. Sam Warburton
8. Xavier Rush
9. Lloyd Williams
10. Dan Parks
11. Tom James
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Casey Laulaula (possibly Gavin Evans)
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny (possibly Chris Czekaj)

16. A Rubbish Hooker (Breeze/Tyrell/Williams/My Nan)
17. John Yapp
18. Scott Andrews
19. Andreus Pretorious (if fit) / Josh Navidi
20. Mamma Molitika
21. Ritchie Rees
22. Ceri Sweeney
23. Gavin Evans

Interestingly, 606, according to the https://www.606v2.com/t19480p50-cardiff-blues-fans-what-the-hell-happened thread, it's some of those very players (highlighted above) that let you down against Leinster?

[wales606]

For reference, I expect the Blues team will be this...

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. T Rhys Thomas
3. Fau Filise
4. Bradley Davies
5. Paul Tito
6. Michael Paterson
7. Sam Warburton
8. Xavier Rush
9. Lloyd Williams
10. Dan Parks
11. Tom James
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Casey Laulaula (possibly Gavin Evans)
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny (possibly Chris Czekaj)

16. A Rubbish Hooker (Breeze/Tyrell/Williams/My Nan)
17. John Yapp
18. Scott Andrews
19. Andreus Pretorious (if fit) / Josh Navidi
20. Mamma Molitika
21. Ritchie Rees
22. Ceri Sweeney
23. Gavin Evans

Interestingly, 606, according to the https://www.606v2.com/t19480p50-cardiff-blues-fans-what-the-hell-happened thread, it's some of those very players (highlighted above) that let you down against Leinster?

They are players that I have said should be gotten rid of at the end of the season (bar Laulaula, though I think he is going and that not too bad)

Filise is still our best scrummaging THP - He didnt "let us down" against Leinster either. I think Andrews should be starting more games, but not having played an international a week earlier and not at HC level yet while Filise is still there.

Molitka has been playing well (top ball carrier in the league so far) and definitely deserves a bench spot (he isnt starting because Paterson has the highest tackle count in the league) while we don't have Down, Deniol or Martyn available

Rush is our talisman and a leader on the field, although I would like to see Pretorious at 8 later in the season - but since he hasnt played for months, probably not good to throw him into a crucial HC game!!!

And as I said, Laulaula may be replaced by Gavin Evans - as Evans is a team player, but Laulaula is a game winner and so probably will start.


Unlike some, we cannot drop an entire team because they had one bad game!


They are playing now because we dont have anyone else who can play, that doesnt mean that I think the 34+ year olds should be given a new contract at the end of the year.

[maestegmafia]

I haven't felt convinced by the blues this season. I was really happy to see their fantastic results in the first rounds but with both victories, taking into account winning away in France, that they should/could have done better.

[RuggerRadge2611]

I'm wondering what Cardiff team are going to turn up. Also whether or not the loss to Leinster will have had a psychological effect on them, good or otherwise.

Also having played a test match against the Ozzies will have taken a wee bit out of the likes of Warburton, Jenkins, Roberts and Halfpenny.

Although Halfpenny did get an extra 10 minutes of rest

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I'm tipping Edinburgh to win this one - and I'll be there to find out either way!

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

I hope you're right, lucky, but fear you may be wrong

[RDW]

Edinburgh fans - the Edinburgh rugby supporters club are descending onto the Murrayfield hotel to watch the game. From what I've read on Twitter there has been a good atmosphere there this season so I think I might head over to watch the game!

[RDW]

Question for Cardiff fans now - how genuinely worried are you by this game? You've got the better head to head record against us but we're starting to show some form this season. What areas of the Edinburgh team do you think will most cause you problems and, conversely, what would you like to see Cardiff exploit?

My main worry is Dan Parks. Is I said previously he has quite often been the match winner against Edinburgh, whether for Glasgow or the Blues. I think if he has a good game you will win, if he has a shocker that he is often prone to, we will win!

[wales606]

Question for Cardiff fans now - how genuinely worried are you by this game? You've got the better head to head record against us but we're starting to show some form this season. What areas of the Edinburgh team do you think will most cause you problems and, conversely, what would you like to see Cardiff exploit?

My main worry is Dan Parks. Is I said previously he has quite often been the match winner against Edinburgh, whether for Glasgow or the Blues. I think if he has a good game you will win, if he has a shocker that he is often prone to, we will win!

I'm worried.

Last year we escaped with a 1pt win at the CCS, this year Edinburgh appear to be twice the team they were. It really depends on what Blues team turns up - hopefully they wont underestimate Edinburgh this year and will get a win, I will be more worried for the return fixture (as I can see us losing it then losing against LI and Racing aswell :/)

[maestegmafia]

If the Blues do get a win this weekend they may well build on that momentum beautifully... But they do seem to lack direction, rush is not the player he was, but Warburton is taking on his former mantel well, Lloyd Williams is a young Scrum Half, Roberts is becoming a World Class center and is a great hope that they can turn too, Lualala looked disinterested last week and has done a few times before and Parks... Might aswell play with 14 men and bring him on for the goal kicks, if his kicking eye is out then he is fundamentally one of the most useless professionals in the game.

[Cardiff Dave]

I'm wondering what Cardiff team are going to turn up.

The HEC one and not the "can't be asked coz we're not interested" pro12 one.

[Imperialbigdave]

Edinburgh fans - the Edinburgh rugby supporters club are descending onto the Murrayfield hotel to watch the game. From what I've read on Twitter there has been a good atmosphere there this season so I think I might head over to watch the game!

I think a lot of the guys are heading down, according to some of the supporters club theres free pies at half time if youre there for the rugby.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Edinburgh Rugby 25-man squad to play Cardiff Blues in round three of the Heineken Cup (Pool 2) at the Cardiff City Stadium this Friday (9 December, kick-off 8pm) - Mike Blair, Tom Brown, Sean Cox, Geoff Cross, Nick De Luca, David Denton, Ross Ford, Jack Gilding, Phil Godman, Roddy Grant, John Houston, Allan Jacobsen, Lee Jones, James King, Greig Laidlaw, Steve Lawrie, Harry Leonard, Esteban Lozada, Stuart McInally, Chris Paterson, Ross Rennie, Kyle Traynor, Steven Turnbull, Netani Talei, Tim Visser
Not available through injury: Ben Cairns (knee), Grant Gilchrist (shoulder), Andrew Kelly (knee), Alan MacDonald (shoulder), Matt Scott (hip), Jim Thompson (knee)

No Grant Gilchrist or Matt Scott - both out injured, that's a shame

[maestegmafia]

Jamie Roberts iterview about this weekends start to the two weekender...

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2011/12/08/wales-star-jamie-roberts-back-in-action-for-cardiff-blues-after-hectic-year-91466-29914076/

[nickj]

This article in the Herald seems to suggest Roddy Grant will pip Rosco to the 7 shirt.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/rugby/voice-of-experience-is-full-of-praise-for-new-breed.16089137

Big call but would have been hard to drop Grant after the Airioni game.

[RDW]

With all this crazy wind in Scotland just now it is gonna be a bit of a turbulent take off from Edinburgh airport for the squad today - hopefully it doesn't make them too ill!

[XR]

I just hope it calms down before i make my way up for Friday's game. Meeting people up there but flying on my own.

[RDW]

Edinburgh team

15 Chris Paterson

14 Lee Jones
13 Nick De Luca
12 James King
11 Tim Visser

10 Harry Leonard
9 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN

1 Allan Jacobsen
2 Ross Ford
3 Geoff Cross
4 Sean Cox
5 Esteban Lozada
6 David Denton
7 Roddy Grant
8 Stuart McInally

Substitutes
16 Steve Lawrie
17 Kyle Traynor
18 Jack Gilding
19 Steven Turnbull
20 Ross Rennie
21 Mike Blair
22 John Houston
23 Tom Brown

[IanBru]

Damn you RDW - beat me by a couple of minutes!

Pretty strong squad considering that we're without Scott, Thompson and Gilchrist through injury.

Mossy will need one of his best games of the year, but at least we've got a backline who have shown a willingness to put the ball through the hands and out to Visser.

[XR]

Blues Team

15 Leigh Halfpenny
14 Alex Cuthbert
13 Casey Laulala
12 Jamie Roberts
11 Chris Czekaj
10 Dan Parks
9 Lloyd Williams

8 Xavier Rush
7 Sam Warburton
6 Michael Paterson
5 Paul Tito (c)
4 Bradley Davies
3 Taufa'ao Filise
2 T Rhys Thomas
1 Gethin Jenkins

16 Ryan Tyrell 17 John Yapp 18 Scott Andrews 19 Maama Molitika 20 Josh Navidi 21 Richie Rees 22 Ceri Sweeney 23 Gavin Evans

That's pretty much our first choice team, should be a good game

[RuggerRadge2611]

OP updated

The Battle lines are drawn and both teams fielding, as near as makes no differance their strongest teams. The Forwards battle will be Titanic in the Scrum and at the Breakdown. Edinburgh I think will have the advantage in the Scrum but the lineout advantage will go to Cardiff, good for them if Desperate Dan has a stormer.

The breakdown will be some contest too with Warburton (IMO the best openside in the NH) coming up against Grant who is probably the hardest working 7 in Scotland.

Dan Parks will have to be put under huge ammounts of Pressure, King, Leonard, NDL and Grant will have to target him all day long and get him flustered. If he starts to misfire Edinburgh will win the game.

However if Parks maintains his composure, directs the game well and gives Roberts, Halfpenny and Cuthbert some space Cardiff will cause Edinburgh problems.

It's going to be a cracking game of Rugby!

'mon the Burgh!

[funnyExiledScot]

I'm pleased with the Edinburgh side, it makes sense given the injuries. Grant is in their on merit. Would have been easy to make the reputation selection and go for Rennie, but Grant has been outstanding in the last couple of matches and fully deserves this selection. A fresh Rennie coming on will also give Warburton something to think about.

My only real disappointment is that Gilchrist is injured, but Lozada and Cox, despite being short a little grunt, will be a mobile and hard working unit.

I tip Cardiff to win, but I think there's a LBP in this for Edinburgh, and I think Edinburgh can win the home leg, which would keep them right in the running for this group.

[RDW]

Radge - not confident about the set piece. Cross isn't the best scrummager and has a very lightweight back 5 behind him. Also worried about the lineout - we don't have any forwards over 6ft 5!

[RuggerRadge2611]

Aye the lineout will go to Cardiff, and you are right we do have a lightish pack and Cross as you rightly pointed out will be the weakest link in the front row. However I still think Edinburgh will have enough experience and strength between Chunk and Ford to gain at least parity up front.

[PenfroPete]

Edinburgh were due to fly this afternnon but are now on a coach, not great preparation. Any of you Scottish lads coming down ?

[RuggerRadge2611]

Edinburgh were due to fly this afternnon but are now on a coach, not great preparation. Any of you Scottish lads coming down ?

I wish. Trying to wrangle a free pass from the Mrs to go to Cardiff is a tall order in the run up to Xmas. I'll be at the home leg though.

Can't say I'm surprised about the Edinburgh lads travelling down by coach the wind here is absolutley insane. Apparently Hurricanebawbag (Hurricane ball bag) is trending on twitter.

[wales606]

Radge - not confident about the set piece. Cross isn't the best scrummager and has a very lightweight back 5 behind him. Also worried about the lineout - we don't have any forwards over 6ft 5!

We have backs bigger than that!

Alex Cuthbert - 6ft6

[RDW]

The boys are in Cardiff - got the plane after all!Wouldn't have fancied that flight in this wind!

[maestegmafia]

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3822_7362467,00.html

"We do have a good record against Edinburgh but it counts for nothing at all now," said Burnell.
"It is all about current form and they are a fantastic side."
"They were shown up by Munster but even then they were scoring tries. They are very capable in attack and can score tries."
"We are well aware that Edinburgh are a very good side. Michael Bradley has come in and given them a total overhaul, having done a fantastic job at Connacht."
"They have formidable players like Tim Visser, Chris Paterson and Ross Ford and some of them are the form players in Europe."

"It was good for our confidence to run in a few scores against Aironi and see the training moves come together in the match," said Edinburgh Rugby centre James King.
"We'll certainly take some self-belief from that though we know it'll be another big step up this weekend."

[TJ1]

Gonna be a cracker. Edinburgh could do with the away win. I predict Dan parks getting flattened early on. He is going to have to kick well tho - thats a good running back 3

I think Cardiff may dominate the set piece and leave Edinburgh living of scraps.

Heart says Edinburgh, head says Cardiff

[Knowsit17]

The team that Leinster mashed was mainly sucked dry of its first choice players, this is almost an entirely different side and everyone in it capable of kicking up some class imo. Nevertheless, Blues need to pick themselves up, they've been horribly inconsistant this season especially.

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