Top 3 Wingers in Europe

First topic message reminder :

Interested to see who you beleive are the top 3 wingers in Europe currently? Try and stay as objective as possible!

Barbarians isn't an International cap

Depends what you mean by 'top 3 currently'.

Lots of players were great in their pomp but are not as explosive or interesting to watch as others are at present. Look at Mark Cueto for example, 71 Premiership tries (2nd top ever, I think) and 20 tries in 55 appearances for England has to make him on paper one of the contenders but I don't automatically think of him when I'm doing a list of the top 3 in Europe because relatively speaking, he is of course slightly past his best.

Same argument could be made for Howlett, who is incredibly special by anyone's standards. So let's assume it's 'current form' at whatever level the player gets to play at.

Brings me to my own 6 cents worth: difficult, but I think that the most talented wingers at the moment are Medard, Visser and Nagusa, with North and Williams close honourable mentions.

Sorry to be princessy about this but some of the comments about Visser are nothing short of moronic. How can you criticise someone who has not yet had the opportunity to play for his chosen national side?

On Friday night, against Aironi, Visser scored three tries which brought his total in the RaboDirect Pro12 to eight from his nine games. He leads the scoring charts again, by three. Last season in the Magners, he scored 14 tries from 21 games. Nobody had ever scored that many in a single season since the competition began. The season before – his first in Scotland – he scored ten tries from his 17 games. He’s one of only two players who made the Magners Dream Team in each of the last two seasons, Jamie Heaslip being the other.

So in total: 32 tries in 47 appearances.

As TJ mentions, he is fourth in the all-time table, with only Nikki Walker, Shane Horgan and Tommy Bowe ahead of him. Walker has scored at an average of a try every 3.25 games, Horgan at an average of a try every 2.58 games and Bowe at an average of a try every 2.54 games.

Visser’s average is a try every 1.46 games. And this is whilst being a player at a club that has, in his time there, lost considerably more games than it has won - this does rather rubbish the argument that he won't score in internationals because he's playing for Scotland.

And for those who care, Shane Williams has an average of a try every 2.66 games in this competition with All Black and Munster wing, Doug Howlett, having a 3.2 average.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Barbarians isn't an International cap

True Pooly, but the query was whether he had "performed on the big stage". I suspect that for most people, this would probably qualify.

viewtothegym wrote:To be fair to Visser he is a good finisher and like any good finisher he hunts down a chip into the in goal area like a hound dog,
But to start calling him the best in Europe is daft he can't kick he hasn't got a turn of pace and has the turning circle of the QE2.

Some of the comments coming up here about Visser show the bulk of the people making them don't have a clue what they are talking about. Have you ever seen him play? He can kick and he has a fantastic step and is very agile.

It's almost as bad as when Jeremy Guscott called Richie Gray slow.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Until Visser plays International rugby the jury is out.

... in your opinion

Of course what else is there here.

I just don't see how a player can be described as one of the best when he has never played at the highest level. Until we do he is a pretender to the title of one of the best in Europe.

The likes of Bowe, Clerc, Williams and yes even Ashton have been there and done it - Visser has not played at the level those guys have.

George Carlin wrote:
As TJ mentions, he is fourth in the all-time table, with only Nikki Walker, Shane Horgan and Tommy Bowe ahead of him. Walker has scored at an average of a try every 3.25 games, Horgan at an average of a try every 2.58 games and Bowe at an average of a try every 2.54 games.

The mere fact that Nikki Walker is in the top 3 scorers shows that try scoring and try to match ratio is not always the best indicator of who the best winger is.

Vissers stats are extremely impressive but I think most people want to see how he gets on against the very top teams in attack and defence before labelling him the best winger in Europe.

roddersm wrote:

George Carlin wrote:
As TJ mentions, he is fourth in the all-time table, with only Nikki Walker, Shane Horgan and Tommy Bowe ahead of him. Walker has scored at an average of a try every 3.25 games, Horgan at an average of a try every 2.58 games and Bowe at an average of a try every 2.54 games.

The mere fact that Nikki Walker is in the top 3 scorers shows that try scoring and try to match ratio is not always the best indicator of who the best winger is.

Vissers stats are extremely impressive but I think most people want to see how he gets on against the very top teams in attack and defence before labelling him the best winger in Europe.

Totally agreed Rodders - exactly my point about Cueto.

Absolutely expected that everyone will have a different opinion about this. Just that there's the unmistakable whiff of comments from people who have never really seen any of the players discussed play.

I think that people would think differently about the likes of Medard if they actually saw him play each week. But so the world turns.

TJ wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:Visser doesn't miss half the season through international call ups thou so he should score more

He also scores at a much higher rate of tries per game - and he plays for a team that gets beaten more often than it wins
Walker f a try every 3.25 games, Horgan f a try every 2.58 games and Bowe a try every 2.54 games. Visser’s average is a try every 1.46

The reason they get beaten is because they concede too many tries. Wingers need to defend as well. Which reminds me.

Does anyone remember Doug Howlett pulling his hamstring but still kept going (kind of hobbling along) for about 15/20 metres to get a ball into touch before collapsing in a heap and being carried off? (against Treviso I think).

Compare that kind of professionalism to Ashton who started sulking and blaming everyone else around him when a pass he threw got intercepted.

maestegmafia wrote:Reads like there are a lot of people posting that dont know what they are watching...

How can someone dis regard Doug Howlett. Watch the man play, he is an outstanding player.

Who has disregarded Howlett in this thread? Once again if you think it is me, learn to read properly.

Sin é wrote:

Imperialbigdave wrote:"Edinburghs defence is bad so surely Vissers must be part of that."

Well you obviously dont watch him then, because if you did, you wouldnt make such baseless assumptions. Vissers defence was poor when he first came into the rabo. If you actually watch him this season, youll realise that he is no longer a weak link in defence. He puts in the tackles required, rarely gets caught out of position anymore, hunts down broken field runners (Rob Kearney at murrayfield earlier in the season), and fields high balls with ease.

Edinburghs defensive issues are more tactics than any one player not pulling their weight.

Aside from that he does more work around the park than most wingers. WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED!?!

oh and Fionn Carr has never been the top try scorer in the league. Theres this idea that he did it in 2009, despite Thom Evans beating him.

I'd be pretty sure that players like Howlett would score more tries if they didn't bother too much with their defence.
Visser gets to play in games where the likes of Munster, Leinster & the Ospreys rest their internationals (Aironi, etc. etc.) They get to play in the Magners playoffs though - opposition would generally be against teams with best defences (like Munster, Leinster).

Visser Rabbo games (47) Brian O'Driscoll (66) Keith Earls (35) gives you an idea as to how many games these players get to play in.

Only flaw in Howlett's game is his kicking - he is rubbish at it.

Honestly pal, read that back to yourself and you'll realise what a complete nonsense it is.

Funny though...

Sin é wrote:

TJ wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:Visser doesn't miss half the season through international call ups thou so he should score more

He also scores at a much higher rate of tries per game - and he plays for a team that gets beaten more often than it wins
Walker f a try every 3.25 games, Horgan f a try every 2.58 games and Bowe a try every 2.54 games. Visser’s average is a try every 1.46

The reason they get beaten is because they concede too many tries. Wingers need to defend as well.

youve made this point multiple times, and ive replied each time, The teams poor defence doesnt mean Vissers defence is poor. By that logic then Sergio Parisse must have urine poor defence and cant be called one of the top number 8's in europe because Italy concede a heck of a lot of tries. Vissers has worked on his defence last season and now it is no longer a weakness, and blaming him for his teams defence just shows that youre just making up your opinion off the top of your head.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Imperialbigdave wrote:"Edinburghs defence is bad so surely Vissers must be part of that."

Well you obviously dont watch him then, because if you did, you wouldnt make such baseless assumptions. Vissers defence was poor when he first came into the rabo. If you actually watch him this season, youll realise that he is no longer a weak link in defence. He puts in the tackles required, rarely gets caught out of position anymore, hunts down broken field runners (Rob Kearney at murrayfield earlier in the season), and fields high balls with ease.

Edinburghs defensive issues are more tactics than any one player not pulling their weight.

Aside from that he does more work around the park than most wingers. WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED!?!

oh and Fionn Carr has never been the top try scorer in the league. Theres this idea that he did it in 2009, despite Thom Evans beating him.

I'd be pretty sure that players like Howlett would score more tries if they didn't bother too much with their defence.
Visser gets to play in games where the likes of Munster, Leinster & the Ospreys rest their internationals (Aironi, etc. etc.) They get to play in the Magners playoffs though - opposition would generally be against teams with best defences (like Munster, Leinster).

Visser Rabbo games (47) Brian O'Driscoll (66) Keith Earls (35) gives you an idea as to how many games these players get to play in.

Only flaw in Howlett's game is his kicking - he is rubbish at it.

Honestly pal, read that back to yourself and you'll realise what a complete nonsense it is.

Funny though...

Have to agree with this.. not sure if you are serious Sin. This isn't american football. You can be both offensive and defensive at the same time.

1. George North's right leg
2. George North's left leg
3. Tim Visser

Chunky Norwich wrote:1. George North's right leg
2. George North's left leg
3. Tim Visser

Great introduction to 606v2. Classy post

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:1. George North's right leg
2. George North's left leg
3. Tim Visser

Great introduction to 606v2. Classy post

Agreed. Incidentally, all of the women I've met from Norwich have been quite, well, 'chunky'.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Imperialbigdave wrote:"Edinburghs defence is bad so surely Vissers must be part of that."

Well you obviously dont watch him then, because if you did, you wouldnt make such baseless assumptions. Vissers defence was poor when he first came into the rabo. If you actually watch him this season, youll realise that he is no longer a weak link in defence. He puts in the tackles required, rarely gets caught out of position anymore, hunts down broken field runners (Rob Kearney at murrayfield earlier in the season), and fields high balls with ease.

Edinburghs defensive issues are more tactics than any one player not pulling their weight.

Aside from that he does more work around the park than most wingers. WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED!?!

oh and Fionn Carr has never been the top try scorer in the league. Theres this idea that he did it in 2009, despite Thom Evans beating him.

I'd be pretty sure that players like Howlett would score more tries if they didn't bother too much with their defence.
Visser gets to play in games where the likes of Munster, Leinster & the Ospreys rest their internationals (Aironi, etc. etc.)
They get to play in the Magners playoffs though - opposition would generally be against teams with best defences (like Munster, Leinster).

Visser Rabbo games (47) Brian O'Driscoll (66) Keith Earls (35) gives you an idea as to how many games these players get to play in.

Only flaw in Howlett's game is his kicking - he is rubbish at it.

Honestly pal, read that back to yourself and you'll realise what a complete nonsense it is.

Funny though...

Have to agree with this.. not sure if you are serious Sin. This isn't american football. You can be both offensive and defensive at the same time.

Re: text in red - I am genuinely trying hard to think if I've ever read a more condescending post than that on these boards. I'm struggling. Sin - you are a remarkable individual.

Imperialbigdave wrote:

Sin é wrote:

TJ wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:Visser doesn't miss half the season through international call ups thou so he should score more

He also scores at a much higher rate of tries per game - and he plays for a team that gets beaten more often than it wins
Walker f a try every 3.25 games, Horgan f a try every 2.58 games and Bowe a try every 2.54 games. Visser’s average is a try every 1.46

The reason they get beaten is because they concede too many tries. Wingers need to defend as well.

youve made this point multiple times, and ive replied each time, The teams poor defence doesnt mean Vissers defence is poor. By that logic then Sergio Parisse must have urine poor defence and cant be called one of the top number 8's in europe because Italy concede a heck of a lot of tries. Vissers has worked on his defence last season and now it is no longer a weakness, and blaming him for his teams defence just shows that youre just making up your opinion off the top of your head.

I never suggested that Visser's defence was poor. But here is the thing - rugby is a team game and defence is a collective responsibility. Leinster can probably outscore any team, but they are very loyal to Luke Fitz who isn't a prolific try scorer, but has a great defence. Leinster have a decent balance between tries scored and tries conceeded. Same with Munster & Ian Dowling - hardly ever on the scoresheet, but he was first choice wing for Munster since 2006 up to when he had to retire with a hip injury last year.

Most teams work to a defensive system with collective responsibility. Despite Fionn Carr being in a better team now, he is not scoring as many as he did with Connacht and their defense is way better than it was last year although they are not scoring as many tries.

Carr is not scoring as many with Leinster as he did with Connacht because he isn't getting nearly as much gametime as he used to. Your point doesn't make sense Sin.

George Carlin wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Imperialbigdave wrote:"Edinburghs defence is bad so surely Vissers must be part of that."

Well you obviously dont watch him then, because if you did, you wouldnt make such baseless assumptions. Vissers defence was poor when he first came into the rabo. If you actually watch him this season, youll realise that he is no longer a weak link in defence. He puts in the tackles required, rarely gets caught out of position anymore, hunts down broken field runners (Rob Kearney at murrayfield earlier in the season), and fields high balls with ease.

Edinburghs defensive issues are more tactics than any one player not pulling their weight.

Aside from that he does more work around the park than most wingers. WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED!?!

oh and Fionn Carr has never been the top try scorer in the league. Theres this idea that he did it in 2009, despite Thom Evans beating him.

I'd be pretty sure that players like Howlett would score more tries if they didn't bother too much with their defence.
Visser gets to play in games where the likes of Munster, Leinster & the Ospreys rest their internationals (Aironi, etc. etc.)
They get to play in the Magners playoffs though - opposition would generally be against teams with best defences (like Munster, Leinster).

Visser Rabbo games (47) Brian O'Driscoll (66) Keith Earls (35) gives you an idea as to how many games these players get to play in.

Only flaw in Howlett's game is his kicking - he is rubbish at it.

Honestly pal, read that back to yourself and you'll realise what a complete nonsense it is.

Funny though...

Have to agree with this.. not sure if you are serious Sin. This isn't american football. You can be both offensive and defensive at the same time.

Re: text in red - I am genuinely trying hard to think if I've ever read a more condescending post than that on these boards. I'm struggling. Sin - you are a remarkable individual.

Well, its true. Irish internationals on central contracts are only allowed play a limited no. of games for their club in a season. For example - Keith Earls played 9 Magners games last year (and 2 of those were in the playoffs), the year before he played 7. Jamie Heaslip played in 10 (including playoffs), and 9 the year before. Visser played 21 games last season and 16 the year before.

I don't think Keith Earls has ever played against Aironi

I actually agree with Sin here!

roddersm wrote:I actually agree with Sin here!

There isn't a facepalm icon in the world large enough.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Carr is not scoring as many with Leinster as he did with Connacht because he isn't getting nearly as much gametime as he used to. Your point doesn't make sense Sin.

He has started 8 out of 10 in the Magners so far. He got the full 80min in 7 of those games and 53 mins in 1 (against Connacht). He missed out on the Munster game and one other in the Magners.

Does my point now make sense?

roddersm wrote:I actually agree with Sin here!

Have you been struck by lightening I thought you were wired to disagree with everything I post Hope you will get better soon

Sin é wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Carr is not scoring as many with Leinster as he did with Connacht because he isn't getting nearly as much gametime as he used to. Your point doesn't make sense Sin.

He has started 8 out of 10 in the Magners so far. He got the full 80min in 7 of those games and 53 mins in 1 (against Connacht). He missed out on the Munster game and one other in the Magners.

Does my point now make sense?

Had to do a quick check on the Leinster website for that, because to me that surely couldn't be right..

He has played 10 games according to the Leinster website, Which is more than I had originally thought, so I apologise Sin. But 7 full games is still less than he would have had so far for Connacht. His attack play btw is still immense, he may not have scored over the weekend but he certainly set up an amazing try (White's).

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:I actually agree with Sin here!

Have you been struck by lightening I thought you were wired to disagree with everything I post Hope you will get better soon

Sin é wrote:

Imperialbigdave wrote:

Sin é wrote:

TJ wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:Visser doesn't miss half the season through international call ups thou so he should score more

He also scores at a much higher rate of tries per game - and he plays for a team that gets beaten more often than it wins
Walker f a try every 3.25 games, Horgan f a try every 2.58 games and Bowe a try every 2.54 games. Visser’s average is a try every 1.46

The reason they get beaten is because they concede too many tries. Wingers need to defend as well.

youve made this point multiple times, and ive replied each time, The teams poor defence doesnt mean Vissers defence is poor. By that logic then Sergio Parisse must have urine poor defence and cant be called one of the top number 8's in europe because Italy concede a heck of a lot of tries. Vissers has worked on his defence last season and now it is no longer a weakness, and blaming him for his teams defence just shows that youre just making up your opinion off the top of your head.

I never suggested that Visser's defence was poor. But here is the thing - rugby is a team game and defence is a collective responsibility. Leinster can probably outscore any team, but they are very loyal to Luke Fitz who isn't a prolific try scorer, but has a great defence. Leinster have a decent balance between tries scored and tries conceeded. Same with Munster & Ian Dowling - hardly ever on the scoresheet, but he was first choice wing for Munster since 2006 up to when he had to retire with a hip injury last year.

Most teams work to a defensive system with collective responsibility. Despite Fionn Carr being in a better team now, he is not scoring as many as he did with Connacht and their defense is way better than it was last year although they are not scoring as many tries.

You definately have argued throughout this thread that visser cant be considered one of the top wingers in europe because of his defence. Your evidence for this has been the teams poor defence and you keep saying that wingers have to defend aswell. If this is apparently not implying that vissers defence is bad, then what are you trying to say? How can you be marking him personally down on the team as whole's defensive qualities? I go right back to what I said about Parrise. Does italy being poor make him poor? no, of course it bloodly well doesnt.

Ah Radge my good man - Visser is "awright' but he has not turned it on v Warriors and esp at Fortress Firhill (still standing apparently in the midst of the typhoon winds ). He has been gash v the "Weegies" - he scored at M'field last season and then ran to the assembled Warriors fans for adulation of the fans only to be told to GFH by the Warriors faithful - priceless !

Sin é wrote:

Imperialbigdave wrote:

Sin é wrote:

TJ wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:Visser doesn't miss half the season through international call ups thou so he should score more

He also scores at a much higher rate of tries per game - and he plays for a team that gets beaten more often than it wins
Walker f a try every 3.25 games, Horgan f a try every 2.58 games and Bowe a try every 2.54 games. Visser’s average is a try every 1.46

The reason they get beaten is because they concede too many tries. Wingers need to defend as well.

youve made this point multiple times, and ive replied each time, The teams poor defence doesnt mean Vissers defence is poor. By that logic then Sergio Parisse must have urine poor defence and cant be called one of the top number 8's in europe because Italy concede a heck of a lot of tries. Vissers has worked on his defence last season and now it is no longer a weakness, and blaming him for his teams defence just shows that youre just making up your opinion off the top of your head.

I never suggested that Visser's defence was poor. But here is the thing - rugby is a team game and defence is a collective responsibility. Leinster can probably outscore any team, but they are very loyal to Luke Fitz who isn't a prolific try scorer, but has a great defence. Leinster have a decent balance between tries scored and tries conceeded. Same with Munster & Ian Dowling - hardly ever on the scoresheet, but he was first choice wing for Munster since 2006 up to when he had to retire with a hip injury last year.

Most teams work to a defensive system with collective responsibility. Despite Fionn Carr being in a better team now, he is not scoring as many as he did with Connacht and their defense is way better than it was last year although they are not scoring as many tries.

You must be having a laugh mate. One of his many weaknesses is defence. Secondly just because a team has good defence doesn't mean their wingers have good defence. You've been playing too many rugby video games mate.

Au contraire mon ami Fitzgerald is actually one of the best defenders around.

He couldn't catch a cold at full back but his tackling and positional defence on the wing are generally excellent.

One of Fitzgerald's weaknesses are his defence? Eh? It is one of his strengths!

If defence is one of Luke Fitz's strengths, I'd hate to see his weaknesses. Seriously, I fail to see how even the most one-eyed, green or blue hued follower of rugby could possibly conclude that his defence even resembles anything near adequate.

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:If defence is one of Luke Fitz's strengths, I'd hate to see his weaknesses. Seriously, I fail to see how even the most one-eyed, green or blue hued follower of rugby could possibly conclude that his defence even resembles anything near adequate.

I'm sorry but what on earth are you basing this on? The Fitzgerald of a few years ago? Or when he plays fullback under the high ball (which I can agree with). Or how about the past few seasons he has played in his position (wing, centre), where his defence has been exceptional? Sounds to me like you don't really know what you are talking about. Please tell me what you are basing this on.

Fitzgerald positional sense as a winger is second to none

RobLewis - see what you've done?

Excellent thread for a dust up.

Time for a 'top 3 scrum halves in Europe' now?

As an aside, Dan Parks would risk not getting into a 'top three fly halves in the world called Dan Parks'...

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:If defence is one of Luke Fitz's strengths, I'd hate to see his weaknesses. Seriously, I fail to see how even the most one-eyed, green or blue hued follower of rugby could possibly conclude that his defence even resembles anything near adequate.

Watch the Bath v Leinster game. Who makes the try saver on Banahan? Even better is the huge hit he puts on Howlett in last seasons Magners final when a certain try was on. I'm not suggesting for one minute that Fitzgerald is the best winger in Europe (he's error prone at times, not fast enough and doesn't score enough) but if you think he's a poor defender then I'm afraid you don't know what you are on about. He is one of the best defensive wingers in the NH.

roddersm wrote:

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:If defence is one of Luke Fitz's strengths, I'd hate to see his weaknesses. Seriously, I fail to see how even the most one-eyed, green or blue hued follower of rugby could possibly conclude that his defence even resembles anything near adequate.

Watch the Bath v Leinster game. Who makes the try saver on Banahan? Even better is the huge hit he puts on Howlett in last seasons Magners final when a certain try was on. I'm not suggesting for one minute that Fitzgerald is the best winger in Europe (he's error prone at times, not fast enough and doesn't score enough) but if you think he's a poor defender then I'm afraid you don't know what you are on about. He is one of the best defensive wingers in the NH.

rodders, perhaps we should have sub-categories?! MacVisser for top 3 defensive wingers in NH and top 3 attacking wingers in NH

I still want to hear where Dubbleyew actually pulled that statement from about Fitzgerald..

Best wingers at the moment in Europe

Vincent Clerc
Tim Visser
Chris Ashton

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Imperialbigdave wrote:"Edinburghs defence is bad so surely Vissers must be part of that."

Well you obviously dont watch him then, because if you did, you wouldnt make such baseless assumptions. Vissers defence was poor when he first came into the rabo. If you actually watch him this season, youll realise that he is no longer a weak link in defence. He puts in the tackles required, rarely gets caught out of position anymore, hunts down broken field runners (Rob Kearney at murrayfield earlier in the season), and fields high balls with ease.

Edinburghs defensive issues are more tactics than any one player not pulling their weight.

Aside from that he does more work around the park than most wingers. WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED!?!

oh and Fionn Carr has never been the top try scorer in the league. Theres this idea that he did it in 2009, despite Thom Evans beating him.

I'd be pretty sure that players like Howlett would score more tries if they didn't bother too much with their defence.
Visser gets to play in games where the likes of Munster, Leinster & the Ospreys rest their internationals (Aironi, etc. etc.) They get to play in the Magners playoffs though - opposition would generally be against teams with best defences (like Munster, Leinster).

Visser Rabbo games (47) Brian O'Driscoll (66) Keith Earls (35) gives you an idea as to how many games these players get to play in.

Only flaw in Howlett's game is his kicking - he is rubbish at it.

Honestly pal, read that back to yourself and you'll realise what a complete nonsense it is.

Funny though...

Have to agree with this.. not sure if you are serious Sin. This isn't american football. You can be both offensive and defensive at the same time.

Sin!?

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:If defence is one of Luke Fitz's strengths, I'd hate to see his weaknesses. Seriously, I fail to see how even the most one-eyed, green or blue hued follower of rugby could possibly conclude that his defence even resembles anything near adequate.

I'm sorry but it's pretty clear you don't have a clue what your on about here. Fitzgerald isn't prolific enough to be considered one of the best wingers. But in terms of positional sense and tackling technique, he's one of the defensive winger in Europe.