Azumah vs Sanchez - The rematch

How would it have gone. Nelson have Sally fits as a 15 fight novice taking the fight at late notice. With more experience and in a rematch how would it have gone. Nelson always found a way to win rematches convincingly. Sally was a great boxer but lets not let the fact that he died young get some sympathy votes here.

Azumah had a unique knack of doing nothing yet appearing to be doing plenty and making his opponents work. He was incredibly strong with extremely long arms and a fearsome puncher. Terrific defensive fighter also.

Sally was incredible with wonderful stamina, all round skills who could box and war with aplomb.

How would it end. I'd take Azumah to eek out a close decision this time round.

Thoughts?

Everyone say's what would be different etc he's learned more etc....

But tell me what did nelson do any different throughout his career or what did Hoppo do different throughout his career...to say that rematches with Sanchez and Jones would be different...

Maybe the winner learns from the fight as well!!!!!!

Me I think Sanchez wins because he overcame Nelson's style......Late sub doesn't always favor the champion!!!!


I think Jones beat Hoppo because he overcame his style..

Sanchez this time by decision..

I think part of the reason that a young Azumah gave Sanchez fits is that Sanchez somewhat underestimated his opponent and wasn't at his most motivated. As Truss says, late substitutions don't always work in favour of the champion and can lead to a sense of anti-climax.

Like Truss, I'd take Sanchez to win by decision the second time around and I see it as fairly clear cut.

My gut instinct is that Nelson would never have been able to beat Sanchez, fabulous fighter though he was.

I don't necessarily think the fact that Nelson was a late sub is something we should read too much in to. As Trussman says, that doesn't always translate as the champion having a massive advantage (though it obviously differs from case to case). Sanchez was as smart and canny a boxer as there could be - you'd have to imagine that with time to study Nelson's style and with the experience of the first fight behind him, he'd have formulated a better plan against the African.

Nelson was a tremendous Featherweight / Super-Featherweight but if he did have a weakness it was leaving himself open to counter-punching. Yes, it was at Lightweight, but he barely won a round against Whitaker. I see Sanchez fighting a slightly more cautious battle second time out, having seen how tough Nelson was in a brawl, and would use his sublime all-round game (of which counter-punching was a big part) to win on points by a tough but not controversial decision.

Big fan of both, but just think that Sanchez would have always had Nelson's number to an extent.

I think you can argue that even with the fact that Azumah didn't change much later in his career what he did was of a far better quality and would ahve caused Sanchez far more problems than he did in the first bout, which was still a tough fight.

Personally I think Azmuah just nicks it, very close but takes him further than he did the first time.

Sanchez tended to fight to the level of his opponent - brilliant against Lopez, Laporte and Gomez, ordinary against Ford and Cowdell. Expecting nothing from Nelson, who had no known pedigree, Sanchez fought lazily in the first half of that fight. Once he realised that this was a formidable opponent, it is instructive how he was able to shift through the gears, solve Nelson's style and ultimately dismantle him.

The Nelson who acquitted himself so heroically that night would have been every bit as likely to crush Wilfredo Gomez and reign supreme at 126 as the version who actually did so two years later. I don't honestly believe that either version would have handled a switched-on Sanchez, who was only 23 himself at the time, albeit far more experienced than the Ghanaian. In a rematch, I would have expected Sal to start a bit more promptly and I would have foreseen an earlier night in consequence. Sanchez TKO 10.

I think an equally interesting aspect to speculate on is what would have happened in the coming years if Sanchez had moved up in weight, rather than just a Nelson rematch.

Rumour had (and still has) it that Sanchez was struggling to make Featherweight by mid 1982, when the Nelson bout took place. The LaPorte rematch was apparently his first priority. After that, presumably, would have come Pedroza to settle any business at 126 lb. I see the two of them as fights were Sanchez would have been a big favourite, so let's just say he wins them and moves up in, say, late 1983 / early 1984.

How does he fare against the lighning-fast Camacho at 130 lb? Could he have won an all-Mexican showdown with Chavez at Super-Featherweight? Given how young Sanchez was when he died, even a Lightweight fight with Whitaker in the late eighties would have been a conceivability, though that's maybe stretching things!

The scary this is, I can see a way that Sanchez could have beaten all of those fighters, with the possible exception of Whitaker. The window of opportunity to make himself a rival to Robinson was there. The mind boggles, I suppose.

Young Camacho was all wrong for Sanchez...he'd have to make the fight and then deal with lightning hands...

Pick Hector..

The thing is, we know the type of fighter Azumah developed into. We know he always performed better in rematches. Tragically we dont know about Sanchez. We do know he was exceptional. So was Azumah. What I was afriad of is happeniong. His career was cut short and now all sorts of hyperbole is being attributed to him. Nelson would give any FW in history extreme fits. When he fought Sanchez he was a very green novice and woul donly get better. Sanchez was already established but although only 23 had he reached his peak seeing as he turned pro at 15/16 and has many wars in his time.

All we can go by is what he already did. Given the closeness of that fight and Nelson's proven ability to learn from the first fight and come back better, I'd pick Nelson to win.

As for Sanchez moving up in weight, It would be a barnstormer against Chavez but would pick Chavez to prevail. I'd also pich Hector due to his superior speed. But if he clocks Hector the war Rosario did, Hector would go into his shell and maybe Sanchez would pick him off and win a UD. Cant see Hector being stopped though. Hugely strong chin.

You have African heritage Az......

What does he do differently second time around..

azania wrote:What I was afriad of is happeniong. His career was cut short and now all sorts of hyperbole is being attributed to him.

You seem to be suggesting that we're only picking Sanchez to win a rematch because he gets the sympathy vote via an early death. Absolute nonsense. I don't see that much hyperbole here.

Nelson had a good record in rematches, yes. Sanchez had an even better knack of raising his game the more difficult / dangerous an opponent was. Nelson was a fabulous fighter but by the age of twenty-three Sanchez had already established himself as a top five Featherweight of all time. Many boxing scribes were bestowing this honour on him during his own career, which is pretty rare but also a testament to his abilities.

Nelson had trouble with speed and counter-punchers. Sanchez wasn't necessarily a blur in the first department, but was a master in the latter when he wanted to be. He was also as intelligent a fighter as there was in the world at that time. Knowing now of the danger Nelson carried, it seems only logical that he'd raise his game once more.

There seems to be a whispering campaign going around at times that Sanchez gets overhyped due to the 'marketing tool' which death can be. But he was the real deal, a genuine great for absolutely any era. If you think Nelson wins a rematch, fair enough. But please don't accuse those who disagree with you of favouring the other man simply because he's passed on.

Red Lopez, gomez and Nelson .....certainly includes two greats and a quality fighter...

But what is interesting is certain people who big up a win over nelson...go on to downgrade Jones over Hoppo..

Strange that!!!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You have African heritage Az......

What does he do differently second time around..

Come on Truss. That's like asking Oxy or whoever what his take is on a Lithuainian boxer because he is of european heritage. Azumah is Ghanaian. I'm a Saffer.

Azumah became boxer as he developed and learned more. He was succeptible to counter punchers early in his career and also became lazy when he sensed no thrat. In a rematch he would tighten up his game and work the body more as he was a fearsome body puncher. My opinion is that would be the key to slowing SS's workrate.

Thing is by the time the rematch was tentatively set (post Gomez 2)...where (like a la Hopkins) is he going to get the relevant experience to turn a fight round with Sanchez!!!

I see this on here a lot that certain fighters are green....Maybe it's true but Champions can learn too!! and people forget that...

If you say you're objective Az then I will accept that and retract the inference..

captain carrantuohil wrote:Sanchez tended to fight to the level of his opponent - brilliant against Lopez, Laporte and Gomez, ordinary against Ford and Cowdell. Expecting nothing from Nelson, who had no known pedigree, Sanchez fought lazily in the first half of that fight. Once he realised that this was a formidable opponent, it is instructive how he was able to shift through the gears, solve Nelson's style and ultimately dismantle him.

The Nelson who acquitted himself so heroically that night would have been every bit as likely to crush Wilfredo Gomez and reign supreme at 126 as the version who actually did so two years later. I don't honestly believe that either version would have handled a switched-on Sanchez, who was only 23 himself at the time, albeit far more experienced than the Ghanaian. In a rematch, I would have expected Sal to start a bit more promptly and I would have foreseen an earlier night in consequence. Sanchez TKO 10.

To be honest with you I never thought about Sanchez like this, and you're probably right.

You've probably never seen him....

Chris

It wasn't meant to come across that way. But in all honesty I dont see his giving Pernell trouble at any weight. Chavez I reckon would beat him to the body and score a UD. I believe that Nelson developed into a much better fighter and had tremendous in ring intelligence against better opposition. His dismantling of Gomes being a case in point.

Sanchez had problems with body attacks and Nelson had very good body punches plus his close up work was better than Sanchez imo. Sanchez was the better all round boxer in that he could fight from range better than nelson but the fight would be on the inside with Nelson's guard, huge arms nullifying Sanchez's best work thereby scoring a close UD. Cant see a KO in a rematch.

Agree with Az at 130 he could be top quality.....don't think at 135 he'd be a s devastating......

Whittaker and Camacho's stylistically are hard for him..

Think he could beat Julio though at 130..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You've probably never seen him....

What your problem is I'll never know.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Thing is by the time the rematch was tentatively set (post Gomez 2)...where (like a la Hopkins) is he going to get the relevant experience to turn a fight round with Sanchez!!!

I see this on here a lot that certain fighters are green....Maybe it's true but Champions can learn too!! and people forget that...

If you say you're objective Az then I will accept that and retract the inference..

Sal was at the peak of his powers. A seriously great fighter. Azumah was still green and getting better. Sal imo had probably plateaued whereas Azumah hadn't reached his peak yet. Possibly Azumah was also very wrong for him. In their fight the first half was razor tight. Sal pulled thru from R10. It could be one f two things. As Chris said, Sal dug deep and altered tactics. Or Azumah ran out of steam/ideas. In this fight experience won out. My opinion.

It was a fair comment Alex....What are you 16/17 and yet you know everybodies career inside out...There is not enough hours in the day Mate!!!

I'm from that era..I watched little Lopez, Nelson, Gomez fight Sanchez and others..

Now you're opinion is just as valid as most but I doubt you know how highly regarded some of these opponents were....or how good..

You're peeing in the wind..

I saw these guys winning and losing and believe me you don't know everything..

Never seen Sanchez fight... Come off it...

Yes I'm 19 but I started watching a lot of boxing young anyway. I know a lot of guys careers because I enjoy learning about the sport and read a lot of what the knowledgeable guys say here and do research and watch the fights.

To disregard my knowledge on certain fighters just because I'm young is ignorant to be honest.

I never claim to know everything about all of the fighters and still learn a lot of new things everyday on here. Generally if I don't know much about the fighters I don't comment on them and just comment on the people I know. My knowledge of pre 1950's ain't all that as I haven't put a big effort into it as of yet but I'm still young and happy to learn.

88Chris05 is only a few years older than me and has immense knowledge on fighters from most periods but you never attack him, why always me?

Chris is the Captains son and Windy's grandson though. He was watching his first fight at 6 months old.

Chris doesn't profess to know eveything...like you do and tell people what they are thinking all the time...

Just suggesting watch Lopez and Gomez fight and look at their class...

before spilling your guts..

Sanchez is the one fighter I alway's think about, he was great at 23, but how great would he have been though, sad not to know isn't it.

truss for the good of the board please stop trying to cyber bully me...

you attack me because im "constantly on" yet you have 2000 more posts than me...

you say i act as though i know everything yet i have never claimed this and only ever comment on threads i know something about and im guessing you cant find a date and time i have.

if a mod is reading this then you can surely see truss should be banned now... all he is doing is starting arguements and cyber bully me and then claim i have no class.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Sanchez tended to fight to the level of his opponent - brilliant against Lopez, Laporte and Gomez, ordinary against Ford and Cowdell. Expecting nothing from Nelson, who had no known pedigree, Sanchez fought lazily in the first half of that fight. Once he realised that this was a formidable opponent, it is instructive how he was able to shift through the gears, solve Nelson's style and ultimately dismantle him.

The Nelson who acquitted himself so heroically that night would have been every bit as likely to crush Wilfredo Gomez and reign supreme at 126 as the version who actually did so two years later. I don't honestly believe that either version would have handled a switched-on Sanchez, who was only 23 himself at the time, albeit far more experienced than the Ghanaian. In a rematch, I would have expected Sal to start a bit more promptly and I would have foreseen an earlier night in consequence. Sanchez TKO 10.

It doesn't surprise me that the overwhelming majority pick sanchez for this. He was a great fighter. For me though this is a pick em. they may have been the same age but the difference in experience was colossal in the first fight. I can buy the argument that late replacements don't always favour the champion but this what...10 days notice for a guy fresh out of africa against a way more experienced world champion. Its impossible for me to think that nelson isn't in better shape for a rematch. His boxing was much tighter a few years later and as az says, he was always better in rematches anyway. I do agree that sanchez would probably have been better prepared too, it was a big fight and his record suggests he would up his game.

All fighters have off nights or meet styles they struggle with. He may or may not have struggled with motivation for lesser fights but technically, Sanchez struggled with the reach of ford and the awkwardness of cowdell and, as a natural counter puncher generally favoured fighters who came to him. Nelson would come to him but behind the jab and tighter guard he perfected as he aged. funnily enough, of the two i'd pick nelson as the one who was sometimes lazy and seemingly disinterested in the ring.

I never saw nelson really troubled in a fight, he was stopped through exhaustion more than anything in the first. Not often i disagree with the captain's assessment, but what you see as sanchez being lazy in the first fight, I see as him being out hussled while he figured nelson out. I can't see the maturer nelson getting stopped in a rematch. Both guys had great chins, so i can't see this not going to the score cards. Sanchez would rightly be a slight favourite but its pretty much a pick em for me. If i had to, i'd err to sanchez as he had that knack of finding a way to win that's priceless but it would be close imo.

It's got to be Sanchez, Nelson went on to improve of course but Sanchez was something else, he had the ability to upsurp Pep and Saddler atop the featherweight tree but alas it wasn't to be. We have to assume he raises his game for a rematch and systematically dismantles Nelson quicker than he did, no hyperbole attached but he was a phenomenal fighter at his best.

Alex, don't worry about Truss he's still stuck in the 80's.

Azumah Nelson for me didn't start reaching the peak of his powers til about 1985, so 3 years after the fight with Sanchez.

Its a hard fight to call as you don't know if Sanchez was a 'quick burner', he may have continued to improve but thats just a guess, as he could have been the type of fighter to hit his peak at a young age. Nelson as we all know - did improve.

I can't really call a winner as its difficlt to see how Sanchez would have progressed with any certainty.

If the Nelson of 85 was in with the Sanchez of 82 then I favour the Ghanain to win.