Sehwag double ton?

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Just 18 more runs to go.

An absolute joke of a pitch, nothing in it for the bowler, not what cricket needs.

Terrific innings from Sehwag.
Playing for 47 overs with such high levels of intensity, is quite an achievement. The pitch wasn't nipping around, and Sehwag is certainly not the kind of player who can play decent only when there is cloud cover. Other than the out of favor Chris Gayle, no other present day player can be as destroying as Sehwag can be in all formats of the game.
Now, on Sehwag in England, how many matches he played over there? in 02, when the Sourav Ganguly experiment of opening with Sehwag was first put to test in swinging and seaming conditions, Sehwag scored 84 at the home of cricket, and 106 at TB in the next match. He missed out in the other 2 games, but as an opener, he showed he can score against bowlers such as Fredye Flintoff, Steve Harmison, Simon Jones, in English conditions.
Has anyone had a look at Sehwag's ODI record in New Zealand?? Anyone remember the scores from India's 2002-3 NZ tour? The Quality of pitches?
Don't just look at Statsguru and form views. Don't think the only challenge in the world for a batsman is to play the swinging ball.
How many English batters can play a spinner down the ground with any kind of conviction and confidence?

msp83 wrote:Terrific innings from Sehwag.
Playing for 47 overs with such high levels of intensity, is quite an achievement. The pitch wasn't nipping around, and Sehwag is certainly not the kind of player who can play decent only when there is cloud cover. Other than the out of favor Chris Gayle, no other present day player can be as destroying as Sehwag can be in all formats of the game.
Now, on Sehwag in England, how many matches he played over there? in 02, when the Sourav Ganguly experiment of opening with Sehwag was first put to test in swinging and seaming conditions, Sehwag scored 84 at the home of cricket, and 106 at TB in the next match. He missed out in the other 2 games, but as an opener, he showed he can score against bowlers such as Fredye Flintoff, Steve Harmison, Simon Jones, in English conditions.
Has anyone had a look at Sehwag's ODI record in New Zealand?? Anyone remember the scores from India's 2002-3 NZ tour? The Quality of pitches?
Don't just look at Statsguru and form views. Don't think the only challenge in the world for a batsman is to play the swinging ball.
How many English batters can play a spinner down the ground with any kind of conviction and confidence?

A point that I totally forgot in my previous posts, Shewag is a middle order player. Therefore if he was playing at 4/5/6 n the Test side, his averages may be higher in SA, ENG and NZ, as he would've faced the older ball.

Demon Racer wrote:He single handled humiliated the greatest wicket taker of all time. Not many can say that.

KP did it, and you call him over-rated

Thats because KP is overrated... :P

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

Demon Racer wrote:He single handled humiliated the greatest wicket taker of all time. Not many can say that.

KP did it, and you call him over-rated

Pietersen scored 140 odd, hardly humiliation.

Shewag scored 201* & 50 at Galle and 293 at Mumbai. Murali was helpless.

hahahaha, sour grapes, why could not the other big name batsmen do it, against minnows like Bangla, Zimbo, Kenya etc?
This is the same Sehwag who has a terrific avaerage against Oz.
Bring them on.

Because nobody else gets to bat and complete roads where it is impossible to take a wicket

In all seriousness, fantastic innings on a flat deck. Not in my top 5 greatest ODI innings ever, though, due to the pitch and poor bowling attack. Sachin's 200* vs SA for example ranks higher, as despite being a road it at least was against decent bowling.

Sehwag may be a flat track bully, but to be fair to him, he is THE BEST flat track bully out there at the moment, and indeed is one of the best ever at exploiting conditions and attacks that favour him. I'd be very happy to have him coming in at 4 or 5 for the England ODI side even in normal conditins, because he scores so rapidly.

Obvioulsy a very fine player, but as others have said, his inability / refusal to adapt and combat seam and swing bowling mean that his standing in the game internationally is some way below the likes of Tendulkar and Dravid even if his stats are in the same area.

i dont care if sehwag scored this on a flat track. to make 219 in an odi is incredible!

only 2 players have ever done it.

I don't get what the complaint is? No-one has rubbished Sehwag's achievement. It is insane that any batsman can score 219 in 45 overs on any pitch, against any attack but we've known for a while that he has the ability to do this so I've learnt nothing new from this innings. Great knock from a great player, but until he does this in countries like England and South Africa, against better bowling attacks in Tests and ODI's he won't join the ranks of the truly elite of the game.

Plus, I don't see how bringing England into this argument is relevant. No, no Englishman could have played the Sehwag innings. The only two who could, Mogs and KP, bat too low down to be able to do it. And if English pitches are flat enough for Bres to score hundreds on, how come only Dravid could for India?

Phenomanal knock in isolation Virender, one of the best, but I have seen better. In fact I preferred Sachin's 200.

JD, first I am only complaining about Fist. Have u seen all the comments? Look for yourself if there has been any attempt to rubbish this achievement.

I brought England into argument as Fist keeps going on flat tracks and dead pitches. Every home nation produces the pitches which are conducive to their strengths. India's strength in spin bowling and hence turning tracks. England pitches are fast and there are more seaming conditions here which mostly suit the home players as they have learnt their basic on those conds. Rubishing Indian track and an excellent achievement by an Indian batsman is not necessary here and that's why my reply.

Dravid has always enjoyed playing in England. Sachin is going thru a lean patch and Laxman has never played good in England. Some ignorant cricket enthusitasts keep going to the last Eng-India series but India did defeat Eng in 2007 whereas Eng has not beaten India in for nearly 25 years. And the record gets worse in one dayers.
Hence it will be apprciated if some ignorant fans stop mentioning Indian pitches as flat because those pitches are flat for the teams which play first and then starts to turn in most of the cases.

wow wrote:JD, first I am only complaining about Fist. Have u seen all the comments? Look for yourself if there has been any attempt to rubbish this achievement.

I brought England into argument as Fist keeps going on flat tracks and dead pitches. Every home nation produces the pitches which are conducive to their strengths. India's strength in spin bowling and hence turning tracks. England pitches are fast and there are more seaming conditions here which mostly suit the home players as they have learnt their basic on those conds. Rubishing Indian track and an excellent achievement by an Indian batsman is not necessary here and that's why my reply.

Dravid has always enjoyed playing in England. Sachin is going thru a lean patch and Laxman has never played good in England. Some ignorant cricket enthusitasts keep going to the last Eng-India series but India did defeat Eng in 2007 whereas Eng has not beaten India in for nearly 25 years. And the record gets worse in one dayers.
Hence it will be apprciated if some ignorant fans stop mentioning Indian pitches as flat because those pitches are flat for the teams which play first and then starts to turn in most of the cases.

Yes, except this track had no turn, no nothing. England played on tracks that at least assisted a bit of turn in India.

It was flat for Sehwag. Why was it not flat for the others? Why no West indian even managed to make a hundred? And dont tell me if no high scores have been scored in England. If I am not wrong then Kapil scored 175 a century ago and Sourav scored 180 plus at Taunton.
There are batting pitches in all parts of the world.
Strauss plays better in SA because he has confidence going in for him there. Strauss has a poor home record, how can someone even explain that? Staruss has poor record in Australia. And Sehwag when plays he can turn the matches on his own. You dont score 2 triple hundreds just by fluke. And Sehwag even holds the record for fastest triple century. If he is just a flat track bully then how has he also managed to come up trumps in Australia as well?

I agree that he gives too many opportunities to bowlers but that comes with this style of play. When he scores, he scores big and crushes the opposition.

Dspite of so many failures he still averages better than Strauss, has scored more centuries, double hundreds and triples. He has cored more runs at better strike rate than Strauss.

why are you determined to bring England into the conversation? Why Strauss? Strauss's home record is hardly what I'd call poor (averages roughly 40). Sehwag is a very very good player when the pitch isn't helping the seamers. In seaming conditions he's poor.

This innings was an absolute gem, but there's nothing wrong with pointing out that the pitch was an absolute road, there was nothing in it for the seamers or the slow bowlers. The reason no WI batsman made a hundred was because they were trying to score at nine an over because of Sehwag's brilliance. When they gave up on victory Ramdim made a remarkably easy 96 or so before throwing his wicket away in the last over.

lastly, wow, I don't mind you disagreeing with Fists or anyone else on here, but please try to debate in a civil manner, it's what makes this board so enjoyable.

thank you, MFC. I've removed the nonsense, so let's carry on, and you're right - I fail to see why England need to be brought into it. It isn't a competition, we are commenting on one individual innings.

Not quite sure where the problem is. We have called it a wonderful innings, but have pointed out the facts about the pitch. Hardly blasphemy..

Exactly. So why not admit at the first place only that it was a brilliant innings whether it was made on a road or a graveyard?

Sehwag was the first one to mention about getting a double toin odis. He would have got this some day anyway (he was close against Bangladesh world cup game). I dont think it will be easy for anyone else to get it whether playing on road or not.

England mention because OP keepscalling Indain tracks as flat and dead which is not always the case. There have been dead tracks and batting beauties in England as well. Everyone struggles in seaming conditions and just not Indians. Aussies got the dose of their own medicine in chasing a nominal score when playing under pressure and in slight seaming conditions.

The main adavantage England had in the last series were their bowlers. England batsmen too would have struggled if they were playing against Anderson, Bresnan and Tremlett.

I got no problem if people do not rubbish the achievments just because those were achieved in batting friendly conditions.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:why are you determined to bring England into the conversation? Why Strauss? Strauss's home record is hardly what I'd call poor (averages roughly 40). Sehwag is a very very good player when the pitch isn't helping the seamers. In seaming conditions he's poor.

This innings was an absolute gem, but there's nothing wrong with pointing out that the pitch was an absolute road, there was nothing in it for the seamers or the slow bowlers. The reason no WI batsman made a hundred was because they were trying to score at nine an over because of Sehwag's brilliance. When they gave up on victory Ramdim made a remarkably easy 96 or so before throwing his wicket away in the last over.

lastly, wow, I don't mind you disagreeing with Fists or anyone else on here, but please try to debate in a civil manner, it's what makes this board so enjoyable.

MFC stop preaching. It does not read civil to you because you guys can term Indian pitches whatever you want but if someone tries to put that thing into English perspective then it becomes offensive?

So much for double standards. What did I say which was impolite?

but why England specifically? Every country has had a few roads over the years. Recently England has been pretty good, but for a few years Lords was unbearably flat (esp. from day 3 or so onwards surprisingly). I don't think anyone bangs on about how Indian pitches are all roads, just that this particular one was (hence how easy it looked for Ramdin once he'd decided they weren't going to win - hardly the world's greatest batsman).

I'm not rubbishing Sehwag's achievements, it was truly a special innings, but it hasn't changed my opinion of him very much. If he scores big on a track assisting the fast bowlers that will change my opinion of him. Simple.

PS: not quite sure why you've put my last sentence in bold there?

MFC, I never said that you are rubbishing. It's fist who I mentioned and is the one whose comments I was replying to.
And thats excetly the point that batting heavens are everywhere it depends on the conds so why single out Indian pitches and try to discredit an excellent achievment? England and Strauss are used to clear the facts and also to demonstrate that banging on one particular thing do bring out the harsh replies.

yeah but to me comparing Strauss to Sehwag is like comparing apples and oranges as they're two completely different types of players. Someone like Hayden or Gayle would probably have been a better comparison.

People aren't singling out Indian pitches (note the plural) rather they're unhappy at this particular pitch. The fact it happens to be Indian is irrelevant in my mind, I would have been as critical in any case (I've criticised the roads in Dubai recently, the WI pitches, and many others). Does it detract from Sehwag's achivement? Maybe a little, but it remains a sublime knock, and he's probably the only player in the world who could play such an innings.

Actually Fists removed one of his own posts where he was (IMO) a bit insulting, so "the nonsense" refers in this case to a couple of insults being bandied back and forth (you called him a "juvenile", hardly a compliment...). Just try to keep it civil, please.

Guys I was not a big fan of Sehwag, I am the biggest critic of his style of batting, sorry, time and time again he has shut me up, by delivering stuff like 319 in Multan,and 219 in Indore. 219 was the last blow to me, I have no choice but join his fan club.

I dont think anyone can deny hes the best batsman of his type around now. But I dont think anyone would say hes as good an all round batsman as Tendulkar. Being an attacking " flat track bully" takes skills of a type not everyone has, its nothing to be ashamed of even if his big hitting masks weaknesses elsewhere.
Getting the best from and carrying a guy like Sehwag does require a strong batting backup though. I wonder if PHughes had the same backup that Hayden did he would have more confidence to play his attacking game and less critics when he fails. I wonder if had India not got such a formidable batting unit he may have been cast aside during one of his lean spells.
End of the day though you have to admire anyone who has the discipline and ability to bat out a test triple and an ODI double.

A great innings from a very good batsman, but put it into perspective, the pitch was a joke, the boundaries were smaller than the average village ground in Lancashire and he was dropped on about 170 when it seemed harder to drop the ball than catch it.
When any very good batsman gets his eye in and is in form anyway he can demolish even great bowlers, give him average bowlers and he'll utterly humiliate them, drop him when he's midflow and he can get a massive score.
So, give him all the plaudits a record score deserves, but treat said score the same way most treated Haydens 380, an amazing achievement, but is it really one of the best innings ever?

I think you're spot on there, reallyreal.

Sehwag has set up so many victories for India, that he can bat how he likes and his captain (Ganguly, Dravid, Kumble, Dhoni) never blame him for his dismissals.

Calling Sehwag a flat track bully is nonsense. refer to my earlier post, anyone remember his ODI record in New Zealand? Anyone here has any idea about the type of pitches out there? Have you heard of a bowler called Shane Bond? A certain Dan Vetori? Sehwag hit 2 classy ODI 100s in NZ in the terrible 2002-3 tour, and added a few more big scores in the last series, where admitedly, Bond wasn't playing.
Agreed his test stats aren't half as good as those are in ODIs, when it comes to NZ.
Also, as I already mentioned, Sehwag, when he started opening the innings in tests, he started off with 84 and then a hundred, yes, in England, against an attack that included Andrew Flintoff, Steve Harmison and Simon Jones.
His debut test innings was in South Africa, and he finished with 105, coming in at 68-4.
His test record in Australia includes scores of 195 and 151.
He hasn't scored a test hundred in Zimbabwe, New Zealand, and Bangladesh. And last time I checked, they were ranked 10th, 8th, and 9th respectively.

msp83 wrote:He hasn't scored a test hundred in Zimbabwe, New Zealand, and Bangladesh. And last time I checked, they were ranked 10th, 8th, and 9th respectively.

Sorry is this something to be proud of?






But yeah I get the point youre really trying to make. His reuptation for scoring soft runs is unfair.

The point that needs to be continually made about Sehwag is how he's able to score so quickly for SO LONG. There have been guys who can blaze away and get very fast 60s and 70s and sometimes even carry it on for an ultra-quick 100. But Sehwag makes 200 or even 300 batting this way -- and has made very big scores very, very quickly on a number of occasions.
That must count for something when considering him.

Absolutely Sir Fred, it is an incredible knack that no other seems to be able to sustain for such periods. Once that eye is in, it stays in.

Fists of Fury wrote:Absolutely Sir Fred, it is an incredible knack that no other seems to be able to sustain for such periods. Once that eye is in, it stays in.

Once that eye is in, it stays in.[/quote]
Those eyes were only set in for 30seocnds when he batted against England, the commentator was actually saying "you can literally count in seconds before he gets out" playing silly shots.

But that is the beauty of Sehwag, love him / hate him.

IMO i dont care if it was on a flat pitch, the fact that only 2 players ever have a 200 in odi's shows how difficult it is.

IMO Sehwag is the greatest batsman ever o subcontinental pitches.he manhandles bowling attacks for fun on the subcontinent and to score two test triples and an ODI double is no mean feat regardless of the nature of the pitch.And he is not a flat trck bully because he has played some terrific knocks on turning pitches against Murali and co.
But he is very very poor against the moving ball and has looked thoroughly out of depth whenever the pitch has had anything in it for the seam bowlers and therefore I wouldnt call him a true All Time Great.

Shanky
I think I'd still put Tendulkar ahead of Sehwag for how well they play on the sub-continent (although it is a fairly close-run thing). Definitely agree though that Sehwag's inability or refusal to adjust to movement and bounce drop him down the list of all time greats.

Sehwag is not as poor as he's made out to be against the moving ball. He manages bouncy conditions pretty OK as is suggested by his record in Australia. He is not as effective against the moving ball as he he is against the turning ball, or flat sub-continent conditions.
But as his First England tour, and his debut test hundred, or his terrific ODI record in NZ suggests, he can be effective in tough conditions dominated by faster bowlers as well, although not to the same kind of effect he manages in the sub-continent on spinning tracks or flatter tracks.
Alastair Cook is much more effective in conditions such as that of Australia, or even flat tracks of India, than he is against quality swing.

msp83 wrote:Sehwag is not as poor as he's made out to be against the moving ball. He manages bouncy conditions pretty OK as is suggested by his record in Australia. He is not as effective against the moving ball as he he is against the turning ball, or flat sub-continent conditions.
But as his First England tour, and his debut test hundred, or his terrific ODI record in NZ suggests, he can be effective in tough conditions dominated by faster bowlers as well, although not to the same kind of effect he manages in the sub-continent on spinning tracks or flatter tracks.
Alastair Cook is much more effective in conditions such as that of Australia, or even flat tracks of India, than he is against quality swing.

I didnt question his ability on bouncy pitches.I think he is very good on bouncy pitches.I only questioned his ability against the moving ball and I dont think bounce equates to lateral movement.I am not quite sure ONE hundred in England proves that he can play the moving ball.His debut hundred in SA was in the middle order if I am not mistaken and the ball had stopped swinging by the time he came to the crease.There was no grass on that pitch to aid movement off the seam.There was some bounce and S'wag handled it pretty well but then I have never questioned his ability against bounce.
As far as his ODI record in NZ is concerned sorry but there is a vast difference in the two formats and you are aware of that.The bowling in ODIs is on the negative side and the pitches are quite flat all over the world.I prefer to judge a batsman based on Test cricket.I think Sehwag is a terrific Test batsman.On song,he is a sight to behold.But his weaknesses against the moving ball are far too glaring for him to be classified as a true all time great in world terms.There is absolutely no doubt that he is an Indian all time great though.

BTW Regarding your point about Cook,I totally agree.I have always felt the same about Cook.But then,no one is claiming that he is an all time great thought.I never said Cook is a better batsman than Sehwag at the moment(although he could be at the end of his career).

"BTW Regarding your point about Cook,I totally agree.I have always felt the same about Cook.But then,no one is claiming that he is an all time great thought.I never said Cook is a better batsman than Sehwag at the moment(although he could be at the end of his career)."

Cook has been a better Test batsman than Sehwag for the last year or so, but yes he is more consistently good away from England. He deals with lateral movement well when on form (which is shown when he is light on his feet), but when not he does get his feet stuck and is vulnerable, hence the inconsistency when playing in England. Will be interesting to see how he goes this winter in spin-friendly, slow and low conditions (i.e. those that Sehwag excels in).

I think Cooky will impress out there, dummy. It is often a mental thing on such wickets i.e. waiting on the bad ball and then putting it away, and Cook has to be one of the strongest players in world cricket mentally. His technique also holds up on such tracks.

I think Cook is a better batsman away from home than Sehwag but I wont rate him above Sehwag as yet as Sehwag has acheived quite a lot in his Test career.Cook has time on his side though.

Yeah, chances are when all is said and done Cook will be the greater of the two, but he needs to keep up his form for a good few years yet.

Fists of Fury wrote:I think Cooky will impress out there, dummy. It is often a mental thing on such wickets i.e. waiting on the bad ball and then putting it away, and Cook has to be one of the strongest players in world cricket mentally. His technique also holds up on such tracks.

I agree.i think Cooky is underrated against spin.i remember him scoring a fine match saving hundred on a turning pitch in Sri Lanka 4 years ago against Murali and co.He is a fine player of swing.The one thing that he does struggle a bit against is medium paced swing bowling i.e. the likes of Praveen Kumar,etc.But he has improved immensely and is improving all the time.

It's astonishing how much debate there is about a player of Sehwag's PROVEN worth. Yes, he has struggled at times but he's averaging well over 50 in Tests and that's pretty good even though I don't think the international bowling is as strong as in some eras.
This debate would be OK if you were looking at a fairly inconsistent player whose performances were such that his place was in jeopardy.
But in Sehwag we have a guy who, on retirement, will be considered, IMHO. one of the finest attackers in the history of Test cricket.

Agreed, I had him in my top ten openers list (since 45) albeit low down.

Sir Fred, I know you do not post in the HoF thread, but any thoughts on Neil Harvey?

Skyeman. Yes, he would certainly have to be in that post-war list, if not in an all-time list although he would, then, have to compete with the likes of Hobbs and Sutcliffe.
I suppose the top 10 since 1945 - regardless of HOW they scored their runs - could include, in no particular order, Hutton, Hayden, Gavaskar, Boycott, Gooch and Greenidge, with Eddie Barlow as an opening all-rounder.

Yep, in the final list, I think Hutton and Gavaskar were placed 1 and 2.