Scarlets 14 v 17 Munster

First topic message reminder :

Parc Y Scarlets 10/12/11

In the pre match preamble I asked two questions:
1 will the injury to Howlett make any difference at all?
2 can the Scarlets pack withstand the onslaught they are bound to face and get any sort of decent ball for the Scarlets to get their running game going

They were the wrong questions. In the event Munster chucked it about with abandon (for two or three phases anyway) and Zebo looked quite at home.

The Scarlets had plenty of ball but for the main part were clueless with it.

What are your thoughts?

WHY DID TAVIS KICK THE BALL AWAY!!!???

Ouch

That the Scarlets HC run over - unless they can win in Thomand, which I doubt.

When the pressure is on the Welsh OHs crumble. Jones 09 GS game, WC semi and Priestland there.

Good result for Munster, Scarlets were not on form today.

Munster were awful too. You take 2 HC away wins anyway you can get them though.

It's fortunate for Scarlets that Saints have been so poor. Its basically a three team pool now. Munster and Castres are probably favourites but Scarlets still have a good chance

Castres have lost 2 games. They are on 6 I think. Scarlets still ahead of them on 10. Munster on 12. This group is wide open. Munster could easily lose next week. It would be difficult for the Scarlets but still you never know.

Well done Munster. Great game. Looking very good this year.

Munster are grinding out wins without really playing well. I wouldn't have said that was a good performance. They haven't played well in the HC this year.

Yeah - the meaningful HC games remain a step too far for the Welsh teams.

Still, maybe all will be okay when the youngsters come through, the crowds increase, we get central contracts, Henson is back, the WRU pay their loan off, scorpio and pisces rise ....

... or we need a rethink.

if the scarlets had played better they would have won. well done munster.

Thomond wrote:Munster are grinding out wins without really playing well. I wouldn't have said that was a good performance. They haven't played well in the HC this year.

Isn't that classic Munster though - never playing exceptionally, but whatever the team they are against they grind out the win. The might never hit the levels of Toulouse or Leinster - but they still beat them.

Not really if you go to 05/06 Munster or even before then they used to beat teams consistently.

If Munster were an international soccer team they'd be Germany.

Up there with best all the team and in the crunch we save the best for the big games. I don't know about that.

Still lots of mistakes. The first 20 mins were a comedy of errors. Enjoyable win though

Just coming back from game - ref lucky not to b lynchd,some seriously disgruntld scarlets fans.poite spoild the 1st half in particular with poor refing.such a shame priestland didnt have his kickin boots. Great munster support tho

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Just coming back from game - ref lucky not to b lynchd,some seriously disgruntld scarlets fans.poite spoild the 1st half in particular with poor refing.such a shame priestland didnt have his kickin boots.

Nonsense, Munster thoroughly deserved that win. If the Scarlets fans were disgruntled it was because they all had red patches on their heads.

Or u may have green tintd glasses on

Anyway im off to get drunk

Honestly didn't see what the problem with the ref could have been. Maybe you could enlighten us

The critical penalty given was Matt Rees holding onto Murray at the breakdown. I felt Munster had been doing that for all of the game up until that point and gone unpunished. Past that I can not see what else was wrong. Solid win by Munster.

Also, just an addition. Jonothan Davies has often come under fire from posters when being selected for Wales. Tonight was why; can't pass, always gets stepped and spills the ball often. I feel his Scarlet midfield partner is a better option for Wales and always have done since he earnt his first cap against the Barbarians.

Munster got the rub off the referee, losts of border line descisions, particularly at the breakdown, hands in the ruck, failing to release the tackled player and comining in from the side. The incident with Rees was certainly one of many. Outstanding defence in the second half to keep the Scarlets out.

Disagree with the critisism of JD2 I thought he was the best threequarter on the pitch, Williams got lost a few times and got found wanting for pace when Davies broke out of defence. Munster centres offered nothing.

Seagultaf wrote:Munster got the rub off the referee, losts of border line descisions, particularly at the breakdown, hands in the ruck, failing to release the tackled player and comining in from the side. The incident with Rees was certainly one of many. Outstanding defence in the second half to keep the Scarlets out.
.

Sorry but you could just change scarlets for Munster in that sentence and it wouldn't look out of place

I felt Poite was a tad scruffy in officiating the breakdown. However he did not favour either side.

Also, Scarlet's fans. What the hell has happened to your running game? Last season you were scary. While we outmucled you, the feeling was always there that you could score from anywhere. The two matches I have seen this season have basically been kick and chase.

ref lucky not to b lynchd

Oh god not this again. You really can't beat Welsh teams according to some supporters. The explanation has to be a biased ref in their minds. Wake up. Munster won because they're better. Nothing to do with the ref. There is no anti-Wales ref conspiracy. If anything Munster have more trouble with Poite than any other ref. Check the ERC rankings. Or the Pro12 table. Or now, the HEC pool table. Munster really are a better team.

Hope Poite got away from the stadium safely.

Couple of dubious decisions on forward passes but going on tonights performance both sides are overrated neither side will progress in the knock out stages unless they improve.

If i must be honest better than i expected from the Scarlets, if they cut out the mistakes they would have been on the winning side today,
but as i mentioned previous in this thread Munster just have a habit of winning games that matter,
Hardly devastating from a Scarlets fan view point

Wrt poite, it seems Munster learned there lesson, not once did they question his decisions or seem disrespectful. At one stage rog and later poc were joking with him. Maybe he will turn out like Nigel he used to whistle us off the park originally

LondonTiger wrote:Also, Scarlet's fans. What the hell has happened to your running game? Last season you were scary. While we outmucled you, the feeling was always there that you could score from anywhere. The two matches I have seen this season have basically been kick and chase.

When you feel the opposition has a rusty full back (Pisi, then Howlett and Earls out in this game) and a strong pack you kick and chase. It's school boy stuff. The running game is still there, evident by the linebreaks. They couldn't finish it off though, too many poor passes. JD and Scott really need to sort out their passing.

I thought Munster were brilliant. Not in the all singing all dancing, Leinster of last season brilliant but by god they are tough. Who got MOTM. BJ Botha was brilliant in the scrum. Delighted for him!

well done munster. They are a team in transition and they still get results. brilliant mindet and work ethic

POC got MOTM. He was everywhere.

BJ Botha binds on the arm. John Hayes stands up.

If you think about it, it was the scrum (Buckley) that sank Munster in the last two Heineken Cup years. I wonder if Botha stays fit, and the Earls and Jones come back, will Munster be real contenders again?

Glas a du wrote:BJ Botha binds on the arm. John Hayes stands up.

Sorry Glas but show me a prop that doesnt occasionally bind on the upper arm/tricep/under the pit and i will show you someone who has never played front row. Last night i was fuming about it but it was let go. It is always let go at almost every level.

BJ was as good tonight as he ever was for Ulster. O'Connell is just in inspired form. My favourite non Ulster, Irish player. Legend. For me BJ was tremendous though.

Both sides made a lot of mistakes - Munster in the first 1/4 and Scarletts in the second half - the difference was Munster's were unforced and they got their act together, eventually. The Scarlett's errors came from pressure, that's what happens. To say that they would have won if they had made fewer mistakes, or if they had played better, is pointless.

I felt that Munster were never going to lose this game once they drew level. Their work in the loose was impressive in the second half but, as usual , they didn't close it out. They have this habit of getting teams by the throat and letting them back in, before edging it at the end. I can't count how many times they have done this in away games.

It seems to be working though. They should be to strong for the Scarletts at Thomond.

Feckless Rogue wrote:If you think about it, it was the scrum (Buckley) that sank Munster in the last two Heineken Cup years. I wonder if Botha stays fit, and the Earls and Jones come back, will Munster be real contenders again?

No. Munster only managed to get it together for a period of 10-15 minutes. You might say good, if they get it together for 30-45 minutes they can do well. I would say that they need 3 more class players to do that and go all the way. Yesterday was the POC and ROG show with cameos by O'Mahony and Mafi. That's not enough to be troubling the engravers...this year.

Glas you are right we have only won each game by a score its still a work in progress but it does remind me of 99/2000 season in terms of drama. Win next week and we have given ourselves a great chance. If we do progress what do we have to lose, no pressure and low expectations. It will be like the old days when teams (usually English) came to Munster expecting a win against a bunch of no hopers...

Happy you mentioned Rog with Poc. They are both like pigs in sh1t with this team. Both take on the responsibility without a thought. In terms of an all round performance that was Ronans best in a good few years

You will win next week, I have no doubt about that. Question is can you get a tbp or deny us an lbp?

I still say when you have a classic (some would say old fashioned) fly half you have to deal with him in the classic way i.e. get a shifting openside to fly up and pressurise him when he's on the ball. ROG was the difference yesterday. POC lead from the front and gave ROG the confidence to win the game. Running over him with ball in hand doesn't work because he's a tough customer, unlike lady garden Priestland...

I fancy that this group will be sorted out by the Saints. They can't win it now, but they can certainly decide who else doesn't.

Munster and Castres at home plus they still pose a big threat to the Scarlets away as it is unlikely that they will play as badly as they did at FG (but only with their first team squad intact).

Alas that may well depend on further interest shown by the citings committee.

If Munster can win next week then even with a LBP Scarlets would be 5 points behind. given that Munster have castres at Thomond it is their group to lose. Scarlets need to do beat saints at parc y and castres away to my mind.

I actually think Castres will decide if there is a best runner up coming from this group

I don't see why Scarlets can't get another 4 tries against the Saints or win in Castres. Got a feeling Saints will throw the kitchen sink at Munster though.

Great result for Munster, it looks like they have one foot in the QF already which is fantastic given how tough this group is. Even more so when you consider the players they are missing: Earls, Wallace, Jones, Howlett, Flannery etc.

I thought Niall Ronin was superb and BJ Botha has had a massive impact for Munster. Whats the news on Botha? If he's missing that would be a huge blow.

Apparently it's nothing major Rodders . He should be okay for next Sunday.

Scarlets need to learn from the positives and negatives after this match and move forward. They can still qualify but will have to raise their game considerably to do so..

For Scarlets to qualify they need at least an LBP next week a TBP at home to Saints and a win in France. Not impossible but difficult all the same.

A win in Thomond would be nice aswell. 9 points from the 3 remaining games might be enough to see them through. A TBP win against Saints might see them finish on 20 points. I think the return fixture may be played a bit more territorial with Jones starting at 10 and Priestland at 15.

Chunky Norwich wrote:I wouldn't be surprised to see a late change to that Scarlets line up if you get my drift.

I tried to tell you

Wales seem to have broken the scarlets players. They are shatterred and different players tot he guys that went to camp Gatland.