Scarlets 14 v 17 Munster

First topic message reminder :

Parc Y Scarlets 10/12/11

In the pre match preamble I asked two questions:
1 will the injury to Howlett make any difference at all?
2 can the Scarlets pack withstand the onslaught they are bound to face and get any sort of decent ball for the Scarlets to get their running game going

They were the wrong questions. In the event Munster chucked it about with abandon (for two or three phases anyway) and Zebo looked quite at home.

The Scarlets had plenty of ball but for the main part were clueless with it.

What are your thoughts?

1. Iestyn Thomas 9. Gar Davies

2. Matthew Rees 10. Rhys Priestland

3. Rhys Thomas 11. Sean Lamont

4. Damien Welch 12. Jon Davies

5. Sioni Timani 13. Scott Williams

6. Aaron Shingler 14. George North

7. Rob McCusker 15. Liam Williams

8. Ben Morgan

dublin_dave wrote:dod is a pragmatic cute hoor rodders

I bet thats the nicest thing a Leinster fan has ever said about DOD!

Scarlets team to face Munster tomorrow, KO3.40pm at Parc y Scarlets:

15 Williams, 14 North, 13 S Williams, 12 J Davies, 11 Lamont, 10 Priestland, 9 G Davies, 1 I Thomas, 2 Rees (c), 3 R Thomas, 4 Timani, 5 Welch, 6 Shingler, 7 McCusker, 8 Morgan

Reps: 16 Owens, 17 John, 18 Manu, 19 Murphy, 20 J Edwards, 21 Knoyle, 22 S Jones, 23 Iongi


That's the strongest team we could put out really. Perhaps our props aren't the best replacements, but I am very, very happy with that. Huge boost to us that Foxy and North are fit.

roddersm wrote:

dublin_dave wrote:dod is a pragmatic cute hoor rodders

I bet thats the nicest thing a Leinster fan has ever said about DOD!

Happy with Mafi and Chambers starting for defense reasons as with Coughlan at 8 (last thing we need is Leamy getting up Poites nose in the first few mins) as he is a better option.

Hurley/Zebo/Murphy will run the ball back at Scarlets given the chance (might not be as good as the other three but they will make ground and rarely lose the ball).

The general consensus amongst the cute hoor association is if we get the defense right and not give stupid tries away as we did with Saints and Castres then we have a shout.

fair enough mate. just saying its not as destructive as other out there who have exploited munster in the past

rees is a super player. him and best are best hookers in british isles for me.

is lou reed still knocking around? great rugby name

with that team being fit, I expect the Scarlets to take this and deny Munster a losing bonus point.

Munster never bring anything less than a top-grade pack, but Scarlets pack has been excellant in general play this season, even their scrum has stood up reasonably well. McBryde's done good things with them and wales.

The difference is going be the backs as people have elluded to already, I'd have Lamont/North and JD2 running between the 10/12 channel in pairs all day, keep the backrow honest and recycle to the next big carrier, 2/3 phases in a row of getting over the gainline will see the ball quick enough to get it out wide effectively and should see the Munster defence narrow, thats where the Scarlets can do real damage.

Munster are a very good team, but they're in transition and this Scarlets team has the potential for a good victory here.

BUT, this is the Scarlets we're talking about, and of course Munster dont do reading the scripts of other teams, thats why they have such a proud record in europe. It'll be a tough ol' game, but Im standing by the Scarlets to win by 8+.

dublin_dave: ha yeah, lou reed is still playing for us. Just been coming back from an injury at the moment and Welch and Timani have been playing so well, he'll find it hard to break back in to the 1st team I reckon.

Comfort - forget McBryde, Garin Jenkins has done wonders with the Scarlets pack this season since he came on board. Our driving maul against Ulster and Saints so far this season is something I haven't seen from a Scarlets pack for years. He really seems to have instilled a bit of dog in them this season. They are going to ahve to play out of their skins for us to stand a chance though. Games don't get bigger than this.

If the forwards front up like I know they can, Scarlets have every chance to win, but like I've said previously I will never write Munster off. That is a very good side put out by them.

Ridiculous talent on the Munster bench. That will see them through I feel.

maybe he is beginning to see the light. it will be a perfect day when he strides out at parc y scarlets after his injury. lacks a bit of dog in his play, needs to take a walk on the wild side more often (fetches coat)

never write off munster indeed. they are like the germans.

right away offling for weekend. good luck to all of your teams lads. should be another belter of a weekend of HC rugby.

apologies, you are totally right RD, Garin Jenkins is another whose done extremely well with that pack. They do seem to have an edge to them thats not been there before this season. If they can perform as they did at saints, and against Castres, thatll be a good enough platform to bring the backs into the game, and with Priestland dictating play, anything is possible for that backline, anything.

Very true Comfort.

Munster have the stronger bench though.

Such fine lines. Am going for Scarlets by 5, but it could so easily go the other way. So tough to call it!

yeah, it goes without saying the threat munster pose in Europe, their record is without question and the best return of points that Scarlets can realistically hope for is 5-4 in their favour after both games. Thats a huge ask though, as that means denying Munster the LBP but getting one themselves in Thomond. I imagine the split will more likely be 5 - 5 or 4 -5, but I'm backing the scarlets to perform tomorrow, if they do, it'll be a massive boost of confidence and I'd really back them to qualify from there.

I dont think anyone would have predicted the scarlets progressing from that group.

It's not just the injuries that are effecting us it's where they are in the park. Earls, Howlett and Jones were one of Europe's most effective back threes last year. Sherry would be starting if he was fit. But anyway we can still win this game. The backs will see no ball and I hope the Scarlets kick all day. Zebo and Murphy will find gaps and Zebo will kill you if he finds a gap. Just ask George North.

Also in the first few minutes you knock North and Davies on their asses. Targetting their hamstring area. Take them out of the game, hit them hard.

Thomond wrote: I hope the Scarlets kick all day.

Not likely is it?

Zebo will kill you if he finds a gap. Just ask George North.

Have they faced each other before then?

Thomond wrote:Also in the first few minutes you knock North and Davies on their asses. Targetting their hamstring area. Take them out of the game, hit them hard.

Why hamstring?

North has a dead leg and Davies has a groin problem so hamstring is the middle ground. Last year, Zebo exposed North on the outside when he drifted in.

Thomond wrote:North has a dead leg and Davies has a groin problem so hamstring is the middle ground. Last year, Zebo exposed North on the outside when he drifted in.

He's a modest chap Zebo. I like the video he's uploaded to his youtube account called "Zebo wonder try".

I'm looking forward to see how Zebo gets on this time around.

To be fair he was still in school at the time. If it is actually him. I was at that game, some try. He was a class player for a school I hate.

Thomond wrote:To be fair he was still in school at the time. If it is actually him. I was at that game, some try. He was a class player for a school I hate.

You have lots of anger and hate in you.

Not really, PBC were the school every club in Cork wanted to beat. Beating them is a good feeling. Why do you say I have plenty of hate?

What you don't want to do is get involved with mauls with Munster because they dominate that area. I got a feeling Scarlets will be doing that after that maul against the Saints. Momentum is with the Scarlets here, I think they can do it, Priestland will decide the game.

he can sense the dark side in you

Thomond wrote:Not really, PBC were the school every club in Cork wanted to beat. Beating them is a good feeling. Why do you say I have plenty of hate?

You seem to be quite agressive. I also don't think that advocating the deliberate injury of players is a particularly amiable trait.

let's not forget that whilst Munster have some injury concerns, the Scarlets only had their full squad back in training yesterday, and a huge chunk of their players have been away from the squad for over 2 weeks. Could seriously affect their preperation for this.

I still think we have enough to do it though. Play our best, and anythign is possible.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a late change to that Scarlets line up if you get my drift.

Im going for a 9 point Scarlet win. Partly because I always think they'll win but mostly because they're playing with confidence and are in a position noone really expected. 2 wins out of 2 so far, at home against Munster who are always a huge ask to beat, but have a few key injuries.
Going to Thomond with 3 out of 3 will be the main aim so the Scarlets will look to win first and if they get in front in the last quarter they'll go all out to deny the lbp, if anything can be taken from the away game then we've got to fancy our chances in the group.

The Scarlets pack has shown massive improvements and are not the pushovers many seem to think they are. It's true the scrum can be hit and miss but who's isn't. The rolling maul issue needs to be looked at and hopefully they've been doing just that in training.
The backs are a match for anyone and if they see enough ball they'll score tries.

Im looking forward to the battle of the 10's too. Two of the best fly halves in the competition imo. Can't wait for tomorrow.

Good to see JD2 and North pass fitness tests...

Looking at the teams both are putting out the best they can, no complaints from me there. Should be a hell of a game...

Cant wait.

I am happy to see Gareth Davies in place of Knoyle. I rate Knoyle very highly when on form, but he has hardly had any matches since last season and looks rusty. Guess that is what happens when you are Wales Bench warmer.

If Priestland plays as he did against Saints then that Munster back three are in for a torrid time...

maestegmafia wrote:Good to see JD2 and North pass fitness tests...

Looking at the teams both are putting out the best they can, no complaints from me there. Should be a hell of a game...

Cant wait.

I am happy to see Gareth Davies in place of Knoyle. I rate Knoyle very highly when on form, but he has hardly had any matches since last season and looks rusty. Guess that is what happens when you are Wales Bench warmer.

If Priestland plays as he did against Saints then that Munster back three are in for a torrid time...

Knoyle's had hardly any rugby in 6 months. He needs to get some pro12 and lv cup action before big games like this

True about Knoyle - hopefully he'll get some before the 6Ns.

Good team and although Dan Evans can have some good games I always feel a bit better when he's not at FB.

Can't wait for a great game and it's confirmed that I've got a ticket (though I can't drink)

I think our pack will do ok, but Munster packs are always pretty scary.

Thomond wrote:Not really, PBC were the school every club in Cork wanted to beat. Beating them is a good feeling. Why do you say I have plenty of hate?

Too right Thomond.

I better go and see my anger management therapist now ....

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Good team and although Dan Evans can have some good games I always feel a bit better when he's not at FB.

We'll revisit this tomorrow

Priest - I know what you mean about Dan Evs, but to be fair to him, he's been loads better this season. Against the O's and Ulster he was superb.

Thomond wrote:Also in the first few minutes you knock North and Davies on their asses. Targetting their hamstring area. Take them out of the game, hit them hard.

Are you advocating injuring the opposition? If you are, that is pretty bad sportsmanship.

If you mean to hit them with aggression and for Munster to show they won't give them any space or ground all day, then I totally agree!

"Take them out of the game" seems pretty obvious to me.

I thought so too, but I would rather be sure of what he meant before accusing him of anything.

As long as it's a fair challenge I see no problem trying to take a player out of the game. By this I mean make them not want to play and wear them down.
However pro teams team will target an injured player( BOD has said this in an interview recently) though and will try and force them to retire through injury, I don't really have a problem with that as long as it's a fair challenge.Hell I've done it.


Any one stuck for a link the game or any other HC games I can send you a PM.

True dreamer I thought he looked better this year but he has looked poor in a few games this season, and I felt he kicked needlessly in the Ulster game - but we have real options at FB now with Evans, Ionghi and Fenby all supporting Stodds and Liam Williams which is good and of course if needed we can play Priestland there and Jones at 10 (though I don't see that happening too often).

Thomond wrote:As long as it's a fair challenge I see no problem trying to take a player out of the game. By this I mean make them not want to play and wear them down.
However pro teams team will target an injured player( BOD has said this in an interview recently) though and will try and force them to retire through injury, I don't really have a problem with that as long as it's a fair challenge.Hell I've done it.


Any one stuck for a link the game or any other HC games I can send you a PM.

I think it is pretty unsporting though to try and injure a player. I do know it happens but I don't think it should. To me it is pretty cowardly, and it shows an attitude of "oh he is better than I am, so I had better injure him" rather than trying to shut them down legally. If someone is better than you, you find other ways to get around them (some players may try and aggravate the opposition). Trying to injure them isn't on IMO.

Fair enough, in some ways I think you're right. It depends on how some people view it.

As a young player I and others were told to limit a guys impact you could just wear him down or put his ass on the ground make him not want to know about it, is it any different to say teams trying to run over ROG? You target the weakness of the opposition and exploit it.

Of course you target the weakness of the team and exploit it, but that is different from exploiting a physical weakness and thinking "oh his leg is bad, better make it worse". I know in the heat of a match it can cross your mind but I don't think it is right. As for pure aggression and tackling hard as nails etc, I am totally all for that. Just not intentionally looking to injure players.

Thomond wrote:Fair enough, in some ways I think you're right. It depends on how some people view it.

As a young player I and others were told to limit a guys impact you could just wear him down or put his ass on the ground make him not want to know about it, is it any different to say teams trying to run over ROG? You target the weakness of the opposition and exploit it.

Theres quite a difference in targetting a teams weak link in defence, and the weak link in a persons body that could leave lasting effects on that individuals life and earning capabilities.

Not to be damning on you thomond, you did say hit them hard, hit them fair, which im fine with and absolutely agree. But, such things as targetting the thighs/hamstrings etc of a player with a known injury in that region, to me, well, it just aint cricket.

I'd be pretty disappointed if we didn't try to intimidate ROG physically within (or as close as possible to) the laws of the sport. We wouldn't be trying to maim him, but put him off his game. Thomond is right, he just didn't express himself clearly. Flipping heck every game in Wales used to have a game within a game, a Gladitorial contest between the fly half and the open side wing forward. One would be trying to cut the other in half and the other would be trying to avoid him whilst dictating the tactics for his team.

I can understand, if a player is dangerous, making sure you put him on his a-s-s everytime he has the ball and make him think twice about doing anything other than shipping it on quickly - but thats a long way away from deliberately trying to injure a player, which I'm of the same opinion as Rory (the blues god) Gallagher, it's not on, it's not sporting and should be stamped out of the game (if possible)

You think running over a weak tackler won't have long lasting effects? Fair enough, it's not like they go out to serously injure a guy, I never did either. You see guy wearing strapping you hit him there and try make sure he doesn't want to get back up. Have any of you guys played rugby? Surely someone in a huddle has said "Lads let's tear into these fudgers, hit them fecking hard and make them feel it and not want to get up" Has no one expereinced that?

As a neutral this should be a cracker!

I figured Nigel might go for Welch & Timani in the Second row against Munster. Clearly he has put his heaviest pack out for this with both tipping in at 19 stone and 6"6. Clearly that's to steady the scrum I reckon and the breakdown. They will likely use Shingler as a lineout option.

Munster will be the more mobile pack but in terms of weight they are giving a lot away to this Scarlets 8. For me I would say Scarlets can hold their own in this area.

The really worry though is from a centre pairing for Munster. Ive no idea who this Chambers fella is and I know Mafi is solid but I have been very impressed with Williams and Davies in midfield. Given enough ball they will create.

The key to this match is who will get to impliment their gameplan. If Scarlets see enough of the ball I dont see the lighter backs Munster have containing them over the 80 mins.

That said Munster have pedigree and can win anywhere so total respect there. I'd still think Home advantage may play into the Scarlets hands but I suspect weather conditions could be a deciding factor.

Chambers is decent, good at breaking the line and a great offload, could be lethal if he gets a clean one.

Thomond wrote:You think running over a weak tackler won't have long lasting effects? Fair enough, it's not like they go out to serously injure a guy, I never did either. You see guy wearing strapping you hit him there and try make sure he doesn't want to get back up. Have any of you guys played rugby? Surely someone in a huddle has said "Lads let's tear into these fudgers, hit them fecking hard and make them feel it and not want to get up" Has no one expereinced that?

Of course I have, and as I just said I love aggression and hitting the opposite team hard. But you aren't just saying that, you are saying about hitting a player's hamstrings if they have an injury there, or hitting their strapping. There is a huge difference. If you aim to hit someone where you know they have suffered injuries before, that is intentionally hurting someone. Two different things.

These guys go out there to cause pain. You want to hit a guy hard and make sure he feels it then go for a place you know he will hurt more!