Spoiler : Khan fight

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how will this loss affect him? will he still move up in weight? will a rematch happen? will he fight bradley now?

will mayweather v khan happen in 2012 like khan wanted?

coxy0001 wrote:

When he does that, he looks sublime.

He's not exactly buzzing and rocking his opponents around though... Yeah it looks all flashy and so forth, but they're basically pit pat punches with zero behind them.

Isn't exactly like watching someone like Gamboa who does look sublime when setting up attacks

There isn't much behind them in terms of stopping an opponent no, Coxy, but they certainly win him rounds and would prevent having such a close fight with the likes of Peterson who is good but certainly not great.

They also serve to mark up the face of an opponent quite badly, which always helps.

AlexHuckerby wrote:I love seeing someone showboat in the ring, if it's tactical or otherwise.

I loved watching Prince Naseem do his cocky man routine, Chris Eubanks daft I'm so cool routine, Duran/Leonard 2 where Leonard starts showboating and winds up the bolo punch just to throw a jab, just awesome. Whether it's tactical or not, it's awesome for me.

Those you mentioned are completely different to Khan.

1) They were totally dominating the fights.
2) They were actually quite cool, Khan is pointing at his chin which is ridiculous. Fair enough if it is RJJ who hasn't been hit all fight, but there isn't any point in showing off your chin after you have just eaten an uppercut.

I think Petersons a decent pucncher and don't forget Peterson winding those shots up and hitting Amir full force, there were some uppercuts that he took very well, I think that he is actually very durable, which is something that I never thought about Amir until the Maidana fight.

Alex

There's showboating when you're in total control and then there's showboating after you've just eaten the umpteenth power shot and go onto wobbly legs. Seem to remember he nodded his head after Maidana had him doing the chicken dance... "no, you didn't hurt me.. my legs are just a bit tired hence why i'm struggling to stand up"

I've got this vision of you giggling like a girl everytime a boxer showboats as well.....

Fists of Fury wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:I love seeing someone showboat in the ring, if it's tactical or otherwise.

I loved watching Prince Naseem do his cocky man routine, Chris Eubanks daft I'm so cool routine, Duran/Leonard 2 where Leonard starts showboating and winds up the bolo punch just to throw a jab, just awesome. Whether it's tactical or not, it's awesome for me.

Those you mentioned are completely different to Khan.

1) They were totally dominating the fights.
2) They were actually quite cool, Khan is pointing at his chin which is ridiculous. Fair enough if it is RJJ who hasn't been hit all fight, but there isn't any point in showing off your chin after you have just eaten an uppercut.

Think you misunderstood, I wasn't meaning that I was just talking about showbating in general not comparing it to Amirs.

coxy0001 wrote:Alex

There's showboating when you're in total control and then there's showboating after you've just eaten the umpteenth power shot and go onto wobbly legs. Seem to remember he nodded his head after Maidana had him doing the chicken dance... "no, you didn't hurt me.. my legs are just a bit tired hence why i'm struggling to stand up"

I've got this vision of you giggling like a girl everytime a boxer showboats as well.....

You'd be correct there.

I have no problem with showboating, as many will know Naz is one of my all time favourites, but your priority in there has to be winning the fight, nothing else, if you can do this whilst showboating fair enough but to do it in a life or death tussle where the outcome is far from smart and is always unlikely to endear you to the judges.

For me Khan's glaring flaw is his immaturity. But should this be something that we get on his back for? Lets face it this lad has only just turned 25 (1 year older than me) and he is hanging around at the top of his division and is one of the best fighters on the planet. As an olympic silver medalist his route to the top has been quicker than most & at times during his latest big fights i.e. Maidana & Peterson this has shown. Now before anyone slates me, yes these two may not be up there with the very elite but they are top 5 fighters within their divisions & I think sometimes we need to take a step back and realise that what he has accomplished so far is pretty good.

Now im not denying that there is a major flaw with Khans defence, but having gone back and watched the fight against Peterson & Maidana I have to say its my opinion this flaw is being a little over dramatised. The reason I say this is because there were plenty of times where Khan did show excellent movement & rolled off the ropes (the 10th round being a good example). Whilst he does seem vunrable on the inside, I think that there are plenty of occasions where he is simply trying to be macho in standing and absorbing the pressure. On numerous occasions he should have been throwing an uppercut and turning his man but instead he stood, waved him on, took a couple before moving away and offloading. For me this ultimately cost him the fight, more so than the point deductions.

As stated at the start he is still a young fighter & with that comes an element of a lack of immaturity/self discipline. He has shown his chin can hold up and one hopes he goes away, watches the tapes and realises he doesnt need to be stood on the ropes proving anyone wrong.

As Khan has said today, this defeat will only make him better & whilst he was very bitter on the night & quite immature he has shown before that he will go away and work harder on improving for the future. If his improvement following his first defeat is anything to go by then i still have complete faith in Khan becoming a top 5 P4P fighter within the next 2 years.

In closing, yes there were flaws on Sunday morning...but it was Khans mentality that cost him the fight & made these flaws larger than I believe they actually are. I would like to applaud him however for once again taking a fight in someone elses back yard (something we so often complain about no one doing) and providing us with another cracker. I will continue to get behind the young lad in his quest to reach the top!

Great post, Oz.

Agree good post Oz but whilst I agree to a point he is still young he is not inexperienced at world level and let us not forget he was being spoke of as a potential opponent for Mayweather in the fairly near future so there are only so many allowances can be made, particularly as he was not confronted by the enigma code on Saturday, but merely a solid fighter being more aggressive than was expected. For me Khan should have had enough experience and maturity to overcome this.

However like you said he has shown in the past an ability to improve and learn from mistakes so here is hoping he does likewise this time round.

I wouldn't say Khan is immature anymore, he's a man now at 25. My daughter was 9 years old when i was 25.

Let's not forget that Khan actually won the fight on all three scorecards (one judge had it 117-110 ???) before the deductions.

Union Cane wrote:(one judge had it 117-110 ???)

Never really struck me before that that was the case, scary though to think someone could return such a scorecard.

Don't agree owen.

The case of his defence that you compliment was him simply running away. This seems to be the only way he's able to avoid a shot, to be out of range. While that's the case he's going to have problems with pressure fighters because he can't sit on his shots which means he doesn't have enough on his jab and straights to really build on his physical advantages. He should be able to keep these guys on the outside with minimal movement, instead he's running around the ring, expending energy, getting closed down and giving off the wrong impression to the judges.

He can't block an uppercut, he can't slip a shot, he can't buy time or take a breather without holding and that's what picked him up the points deductions. Again he was getting caught with straights over the top he should have seen. His inside game is so flawed he simply has to push an opponent off because he can't deal with them in close. The referee was right to dock points, you simply aren't allowed to do that, and if you were it would be the end of inside fighters.

He has massive attributes but until he's taught to use them he doesn't have the ring generalship which is needed to compete with the top boxers.

Scottrf wrote: The referee was right to dock points, you simply aren't allowed to do that, and if you were it would be the end of inside fighters.

Well said Scott, when all is said and done pushing is against the rules, the fact you will often get away with it does not change that fact, as such you cannot have too many complaints if you encounter a referee who calls you on it.

Yeah one thing that we have to say, very similar to Carl Froch, he wasn't scared to travel away and the fight itself was a cracker.

Scottrf wrote:Don't agree owen.

The case of his defence that you compliment was him simply running away. This seems to be the only way he's able to avoid a shot, to be out of range. While that's the case he's going to have problems with pressure fighters because he can't sit on his shots which means he doesn't have enough on his jab and straights to really build on his physical advantages. He should be able to keep these guys on the outside with minimal movement, instead he's running around the ring, expending energy, getting closed down and giving off the wrong impression to the judges.

He can't block an uppercut, he can't slip a shot, he can't buy time or take a breather without holding and that's what picked him up the points deductions. Again he was getting caught with straights over the top he should have seen. His inside game is so flawed he simply has to push an opponent off because he can't deal with them in close. The referee was right to dock points, you simply aren't allowed to do that, and if you were it would be the end of inside fighters.

He has massive attributes but until he's taught to use them he doesn't have the ring generalship which is needed to compete with the top boxers.

Here here.

I can symphathise with can a little (but only a little on this one).

He is right when he says that if he doesn't push Peterson off when he is on the ropes then he risks being caught by his head.

However, he shouldn't have been on the ropes anyway, so he could have prevented the issue!!

I take the point on Khan's immaturity, but ask when is he going to grow up? I remember in one of his earlier fights when all he wanted to talk about after the fight was how he was going to record his own entrance music for the next fight and that everyone should listen out for it because it will be awesome!! He was 21 then and it was embarrassing. Four or so years on and we are still talking about his maturity. I do think Khan can come back, but he must look at the faults in himself and not try to blame others.

Fists of Fury wrote:I can symphathise with can a little (but only a little on this one).

He is right when he says that if he doesn't push Peterson off when he is on the ropes then he risks being caught by his head.

As you have alluded to though fists there are things a world level fighter should be capable of doing inside the rules to cope with this, lateral movement would do it as did the uppercut on the rare occasions Amir used it, for a world level fighter to have no answer to this beyond pushing someone is a poor show.

I think it's a bit of a grey area in boxing, you can't duck down and lean your head in however it's difficult for the referee when it looks as though it's being leaned on by the other fighter.

In terms of pushing off i think there is a certain type of push off that is allowed using just gloves however Khan was using full arms and elbows.

Fists of Fury wrote:I can symphathise with can a little (but only a little on this one).

He is right when he says that if he doesn't push Peterson off when he is on the ropes then he risks being caught by his head.

However, he shouldn't have been on the ropes anyway, so he could have prevented the issue!!

Committing a foul based on possibly being the victim of a future foul?

Peterson wasn't coming in with his head as such, he was getting close with his head down, while Khan was fighting taller (and is a taller guy anyway). I don't think they clashed once.

Clashes are often as you're coming in, not while you're there, which is when he was pushing.

Roach was asking Khan to throw the uppercut more regularly, and when he did throw it on occasion it did deter Peterson, so why he didn't utilise it more often I just don't know.

I think the second point deduction wasn't going to come but he hit Peterson on the break and think he was only going to get a telling off but then ended up with the point deduction because of the late punch. Khan was the one making the fight all messy on the inside, Peterson wanted a tear up on the inside. Khan brely threw punches on the inside, surely he must have some form of inside game?

Scottrf,

You actually raise a very good point with the running comment. I do believe this looks very negative to the judges. And it is a huge hinderance in his ability to plant his feet for that extra power. However I disagree that it is necessarily a bad tactic to use. He showed in the Judah fight & as mentioned in my previous post, at times in this one, that his foot movement got him off the ropes back to the centre of the ring and allowed him to let off a combo (Petersons big left hook late in the fight, where Khan back pedalled at an angle, Peterson missed & Khan landed a 3 punch combo an example) and for me this is where his strength lies. Not all fighters are like Mayweather & Whittaker, where they have the ability to roll the shoulders, miss the punches and then turn there man. And if this is the case then a fighter needs to play to his strengths. Khans is that he is fast on his feet. I dont mind him back pedalling & if it is his only way of avoiding a shot (not that I think it is) then what does it matter as long as he avoids them...

The problem that I have is that he doesnt move away quick enough. Now there is the argument that maybe he just isnt good enough but, I will for now at least, believe it is more a case of him being macho than him not being able to. He has shown plenty of times that he can get himself away when closed down, but there just seem to be times where he either lapses in concentration or just chooses to stand & allow a fighter to work away on the ropes. And when he ships the uppercut the way he does, he can ill afford to continue to do it.

Roach needs to get him back in the ring & teach him some discipline & drum it into him that he has shown he has a better chin than thought. If his defence is that he back pedals rather than tightens his guard and rolls his shoulders then so be it...but he needs to ensure that he works on his uppercut, so that when he does back pedal onto the ropes he can throw the uppercut and then move off again. For me this was a glaring tactic to use on Sunday yet for some reason he failed (think he did start to do it from round 7-10) but he just didnt do it enough.

With regards to holding his man, im just going to say that is an argument for another day. Im a huge fan of Hatton and he was one of the best inside fighters ever (or best dirty fighter) however you want to look at it. As people have pointed out already..fighters such as Hatton/Peterson/Ortiz to an extent, are much more reliant on a referee's view & handling of a fight...prime example being Cortez in the Hatton/Mayweather fight & the ref from Sundays fight.

by bhb001 Today at 9:46 am

.I take the point on Khan's immaturity, but ask when is he going to grow up? I remember in one of his earlier fights when all he wanted to talk about after the fight was how he was going to record his own entrance music for the next fight and that everyone should listen out for it because it will be awesome!! He was 21 then and it was embarrassing. Four or so years on and we are still talking about his maturity. I do think Khan can come back, but he must look at the faults in himself and not try to blame others.

Good point mate, there are times when he comes out with stupid comments & his behavior leaves a lot to be desired. However I think when it comes down to work ethic there are few in the game as dedicated. Even after all the moaning Sunday morning he has come out today and said he will learn from the mistakes, he realised he was a little immature in his performance & he will take that back to the gym with him. It is this (and his willingness to go to battle when he doesnt need to) which keeps me interested & supporting him.

It seems to be a given now that Olympic medallists who go pro (especially from this country) can be absolute plonkers. But at least Khan does go away and learn unlike Harrison & DeGale who continue to believe they are simply being robbed of their destiny & dont need to improve!

Owen,

Not going to claim it’s a bad tactic in all circumstances. When he has his back to the ropes it works, quick movement and he’s back in the centre (Although he seems to enjoy being on the ropes, but I’m not sure why as he was getting outgunned here). But if it’s your only tactic, you spend all night moving, and can never really get settled. This is the reason Calderon struggled with Segura, this was his main method of defence in that and his legs couldn’t keep up and he got walked down.

Whitaker used this tactic a lot, but he would also settle, plant his feet and dig his shots in at times. It discourages your opponent and picks you up points on the cards. He was able to because he was excellent at slipping and calm under fire. I just don’t think Khan is learning the things that can help him become a rounded fighter. He wont be Whitaker in that regard but if all he does is ‘run’ he will never learn timing and range well enough, and he’s getting caught with telegraphed overhand rights still.

Peterson used quick foot movement, but importantly he was able to because nothing was discouraging him.

Dont disagree with you Scott,

I think it is a case of how Khan now goes away and improves. Like you say he needs to learn to discourage an inside fighter from getting there. I dont even think its bad if it is his only tactic i.e. back pedalling, because he does have the stamina to continue doing it. When he throws the right shot he is very much capable of moving out of range and then landing with a blistering combination. This is why i say, it was & will be imperative, that he brings that uppercut into his armoury. I think i saw him throw it maybe 8 times max on Sunday..but every time he did, it unsettled Peterson, allowed Khan to get out of range before popping off a combo. He just didnt do it enough, now that for me is because of a combination of him not listening to Freddie & wanting to trade with Peterson, but as you said he cant be doing that because he is constantly on his toes therefore lacks the power.

For me he needs to go away and focus on his shot selection a little more, he can throw at angles similiar to Pacman, who's ability in doing this deters walk forward fighters. Bring that uppercut into his game, and get him working on throwing it off the back foot, because whilst he does lack power his precision, timing & speed are good enough to be knocking fighters out off the back foot. Just a case of whether he can now implement it in future fights.

Also just a quick thought, do you think his height is actually a hinderance to him when it comes to this?

Peterson is allowed to place his head in Khans chest, if Khan wasn't running so fast though Peterson wouldn't have been running at him with the head so fast. The head was a poor excuse, Peterson is allowed to get close without being put in a headlock, being pushed away and having his head pushed down, they are fouls.

Just came across this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/article-2072864/Amir-Khan-MUGGED-dubious-judging.html

Now this will surely set the tongues wagging...a draw would of been the outcome but for some bizzare changes to the scorecard.

Note that round 7 on Hills scorecard was scored 10-10..before he obviously realised the point deduction. Then suddenly it becomes 10-8 Peterson...question 1: Why 10-8 if it was previously 10-10? Surely it should be 10-9 Peterson, therefore a draw...

AND: if you look closely you will actually see that Peterson's number has changed from 9 to 10....if he felt Peterson lost the round then that number need not be changed and the round should be scored 9-9, therefore handing Khan a 113-112 scorecard and the majority decision.

That card is the master card, the judges don't score onto the same piece of paper.

Transcription error, but the numbers do look strange.

I was certain the decision was going Khans way after the wait, especially after he had something said in his ear, just before the result was read though someone from Peterson camp obviously read the scores properly and shouted 'and the new', Khan then looked a bit puzzled and so was i.

Don't know what Jeff Powell was watching, and anyway that card is just the one where all scores are input, not the actual judges own cards.

Hardly a robbery anyway, Khan himslef was the reason he lost, for showboating and taking his foot off teh gas (he looked knackered to me) and for failing to obey clear commands from the ref!

Yeh thats my point Scott,

if its the master card then surely it is a simply case of writing in the numbers from each individual scorecard. There should not be any mistakes on it. I have a 7 yr old sister who can copy a collection of numbers from one piece of paper to another without the need for scribbles and alterations. Something you learn during primary school isnt it?

Regardless of whether there is or isnt anything fishy about the decision, once again it does not leave boxing looking good to the casual viewer & kind of backs up the murmerings from the Khan camp that they had been told they had won the fight before a delay & then Peterson decision.

Don't think we've heard the last of this but as the first Marquez and Pacquiao fight proved, judging errors don't get corrected.

owen10ozzy wrote:Yeh thats my point Scott,

if its the master card then surely it is a simply case of writing in the numbers from each individual scorecard. There should not be any mistakes on it. I have a 7 yr old sister who can copy a collection of numbers from one piece of paper to another without the need for scribbles and alterations. Something you learn during primary school isnt it?

Regardless of whether there is or isnt anything fishy about the decision, once again it does not leave boxing looking good to the casual viewer & kind of backs up the murmerings from the Khan camp that they had been told they had one the fight before a rather large delay & then Peterson decision.

Writing mistakes happen all the time, at the end of the day the master card doesn't really mean anything so we can't read anything into it.

Easy to make that kind of mistake when you are rushing and glancing at another card, means nothing and is just sour grapes.

Khan was not good enough to win, simple as that!

owen10ozzy wrote:Yeh thats my point Scott,

if its the master card then surely it is a simply case of writing in the numbers from each individual scorecard. There should not be any mistakes on it. I have a 7 yr old sister who can copy a collection of numbers from one piece of paper to another without the need for scribbles and alterations. Something you learn during primary school isnt it?

Regardless of whether there is or isnt anything fishy about the decision, once again it does not leave boxing looking good to the casual viewer & kind of backs up the murmerings from the Khan camp that they had been told they had won the fight before a delay & then Peterson decision.

Not quite. Judge's cards have deductions in a separate column, the master card doesn't. Nethertheless it should always have been a 10 in Peterson's column and never a 10 in Khan's, so that raises suspicion.

Fists of Fury wrote:My own take on it is this:

I had it a draw, first and foremost. Thought Khan was possibly unlucky not to be credited with two knockdowns in the first, as we've seen them given for a lot less than that, and some cuffing punches had landed.

With regard to the point deductions, it's a tough one. Peterson did constantly lead with his head which I felt should have been addressed by the referee, but Khan can have no complaints - it wasn't as if he hadn't been warned. It is something that is part of Khan's continued learning process, I guess, and he will have to work hard on dealing with less skilled fighters that bore in to you in such a fashion.

I imagine Khan may have got the decision elsewhere, but I've no complaints about it being a point or two either way, and full credit to Peterson for changing his tactics and showing immense reserves of grit and determination.

A cracking fight and fully looking forward to a rematch (hopefully in March?). I think this will tell us more about Khan than any fight to date - we know you can take a shot now, we know you can scrap, we know you're determined and skilled, but can you adapt? Can you show us that you have learnt from your mistakes and can carry out a different gameplan that deals with this type of fighter? I believe he can, and I certainly hope he can!

That pretty much sums up my feelings on it fists.

In parts Khan looked excellent and expect he will learn a lot from that fight. Peterson had the fight of his life, and I doubt he could have fought any better. Point deductions where silly though the ref did give him a final warning mid way.

I'd still fancy Khan in rematch if he can cut out the silly mistakes regardless what Peterson could bring a second time around.

Cracking fight.

Just so everyone knows im not arguing the decision was wrong (though I had Khan by 1 round) and can definitley not feel sorry for him as he should have had enough to put the fight beyond doubt..

However it is poor showing to simply say writing mistakes happen all the time...the point is that the master card reflects the commisioners scorecard i.e. he tallys the points from each judge at the end of each round which gives you the master. Now im sorry but anyone in that position should be capable of simply writing down the numbers correctly. It isnt difficult at all!

And there is a point to be made with regards a 10-9 suddenly becoming a 10-8 round the other way!

Like i said my main point is that stuff like this, is the equivalent to contentious over the line goal decisions in football. It is not good for the sport..and for one which struggles to gain the casual viewer it is even more detramental

Lets not forget the real reason he fought in DC.

Khans 2 fights in the US against Maidana and Judah barely sold half the tickets.

To make money at the gate he is going to have to keep fighting in his opponents backyard for the foreseeable future unless he is fighting a top fighter like Mayweather, Ortiz etc who actually can fill a venue.

The road warrior term is getting a bit silly. He has no choice in the US.

Even against McCloskey his support was outweighed incredibily and that was in his own backyard.

And he never even sold out the venue in DC and he always talks about how he has the style fight fans love.

This is another reason that I think people dislike him.

The ego of being Amir Khan is too big. With the PPV demands and then not being a big ticket seller also gets in the way of the job in hand.

Its all Frank Warren's fault anyway, he fast tracked him into this position

Its the fault of his team who disgust me no end. They are money grabbing hangers on who conduct themselves with arrogance.

owen10ozzy wrote:Just came across this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/article-2072864/Amir-Khan-MUGGED-dubious-judging.html

Now this will surely set the tongues wagging...a draw would of been the outcome but for some bizzare changes to the scorecard.

Note that round 7 on Hills scorecard was scored 10-10..before he obviously realised the point deduction. Then suddenly it becomes 10-8 Peterson...question 1: Why 10-8 if it was previously 10-10? Surely it should be 10-9 Peterson, therefore a draw...

AND: if you look closely you will actually see that Peterson's number has changed from 9 to 10....if he felt Peterson lost the round then that number need not be changed and the round should be scored 9-9, therefore handing Khan a 113-112 scorecard and the majority decision.

Add to that at the end of the fight before the scores where announced something was getting whispered in the Khan camp about the result, Seeing the reaction from them (Haye etc) after the whispering led me (and the Sky commentary team) to believe that Khan had gotten away with it. At that time Peterson's coach was fuming about all the whispering going on.

Does feel like something strange did go on when totting the scores up. Of course not taking anything away from Peterson performance that night.

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:Lets not forget the real reason he fought in DC.

Khans 2 fights in the US against Maidana and Judah barely sold half the tickets.

To make money at the gate he is going to have to keep fighting in his opponents backyard for the foreseeable future unless he is fighting a top fighter like Mayweather, Ortiz etc who actually can fill a venue.

The road warrior term is getting a bit silly. He has no choice in the US.

Even against McCloskey his support was outweighed incredibily and that was in his own backyard.

Just not true. McCloskey fans made up the small side of the arena. Khan fans made up both the bigger sides, and they weren't just neutrals. His support impressed me that night.

Borught back down to earth Scott,

Would also say the tickets sold well against Maidana they just sdidn't against Judah, think it may be because most thought Judah stood no chance.

I was up in the top tier and was surrounded by Irish fans (and alot of English who were also cheering McCloskey on) and I wasn't in the small area your trying to describe.

The place was covered in Tricolours at each corner. Above and on the ground.

Im not saying he didn't have many fans there, but at least 30-40% of that where cheering for McCloskey when he came out.

You even mentioned it before about the Sweet Caroline song being played etc. Never have I heard a crowd at a Khan fight so vocal. And it was acknowledged by Reporters that it was the Irish crowd who took over that night.

I'd say it was louder when Khan came out, and a positive reception, something I wasn't expecting. I think you're downplaying how many Khan fans there were.

The McCloskey fans were more vocal in general with chanting etc but there weren't more of them, and when Khan came out it erupted.

http://forum.philboxing.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=185304

4632 attended the Khan vs Maidana fight out of 12'000 seats on offer.

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=497124

7279 attended the Khan vs Judah fight out of 12'000 on offer also.