Amir Khan v Timothy Bradley

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Who wins this and how?


Regards

Steffan

manos de piedra wrote:

Bob wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Styles may make fights but I find it difficult to ignore this loss which I think should surely raise bigger doubts over Khans chances of beating either Bradley or Mayweather. Peterson beat Khan using tactics that are employed fairly regularly by Bradley, who is more adept and accustomed to them.

Are you referring to head-butting?

I still have Khan beating Bradley because Bradley doesn't like fighting someone who boxes behind a jab (like Holt)

What Im saying is the loss to Peterson, in my view, should really make one less confident in Khans ability to beat Bradley. There appeared to be some suggestion that based on a styles makes fight sort of basis that Khan losing to Peterson has little or no relevance to his chances of beating Bradley but I have to say I would be less confident in Khan after seeing the Peterson fight. Certainly I rate Bradleys chances as better than I did before the Peterson fight anyway.

I agree to a certain extent, but I do agree with the styles make fights argument in this particular case.

Peterson reminds me of Paul Williams to a certain extent. He usually has height and reach over his opponents, but neglects to use it and wants to fight in the pocket. When he fought Bradley, it quickly became apparent that Peterson was a beast at infighting, and he won those early exchanges. Bradley won the fight comfortably (though not as comfortably as the scorecards suggest) because his outside work was much better, which I doubt it would be against Khan.

Just seen the fight (after I knew the results). Even with the deductions, I scored it for Khan by a round. But having said that, the KD was not a KD and the first points deduction should not have counted.

The problem with Khan I believe is that he fights scared. His flurries are just that; flurries. He doesn't sit down on his punches even when throwing combinations. He doesn't trust his chin either, hence he fights scared. When an opponent comes forward, he either holds or thrown flurries and runs.

He has fast feet, but exceptionally poor footwork. He has terrific hand speed but no snap in his punches especially his jab.

That makes it easier for an opponent to close the space and fight where Khan is most uncomfortable.

If Khan fights like this in a rematch, he wil llose and lose decisively. Against Bradley, he will also lose. Not because Bradley is a better fighter. He isn't. Bu because Bradley is a more intelligent fighter who thinks. Khan fights on emotion and some instinct. In my opinion, he needs to leave the wildcard gym and move to a trainer more suited for fighters who prefer fighting at range. Step forward Manny Steward.

If he utilises his natural talent, he will be a very good fighter. But only if he is taught how to harness that talent. So far he has won on natural ability. He wont for long or remain a world class operator.

Bob wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

Bob wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Styles may make fights but I find it difficult to ignore this loss which I think should surely raise bigger doubts over Khans chances of beating either Bradley or Mayweather. Peterson beat Khan using tactics that are employed fairly regularly by Bradley, who is more adept and accustomed to them.

Are you referring to head-butting?

I still have Khan beating Bradley because Bradley doesn't like fighting someone who boxes behind a jab (like Holt)

What Im saying is the loss to Peterson, in my view, should really make one less confident in Khans ability to beat Bradley. There appeared to be some suggestion that based on a styles makes fight sort of basis that Khan losing to Peterson has little or no relevance to his chances of beating Bradley but I have to say I would be less confident in Khan after seeing the Peterson fight. Certainly I rate Bradleys chances as better than I did before the Peterson fight anyway.

I agree to a certain extent, but I do agree with the styles make fights argument in this particular case.

Peterson reminds me of Paul Williams to a certain extent. He usually has height and reach over his opponents, but neglects to use it and wants to fight in the pocket. When he fought Bradley, it quickly became apparent that Peterson was a beast at infighting, and he won those early exchanges. Bradley won the fight comfortably (though not as comfortably as the scorecards suggest) because his outside work was much better, which I doubt it would be against Khan.

Yeah, but equally I would see Bradley as a guy that doesnt mind getting in your face, usually head first. Khan wont like this at all so it basically becomes a cat and mouse game of who can impose their style more effectively. I think Petersen tried to box Khan at the start, got a bit of a wake up, and then resorted to the better plan of out muscling Khan and roughing him up. Bradley will almost certainly try t do this from the start and I think its something hes not unfamiliar with. If he has his way then I think he wins. And based on Khans lack of ability dealing with Peterson, whos not really someone I would have classified as a natural inside fighter or swarmer, Im now less confident that Khan can impose his gameplan over Bradleys.

Part of this, I guess, is the angle of approach. Personally I had remained unconvinced on Khan after Maidana (not his chin just his ability to impose his own gameplan against that style). I think mandatories aside, his fights have been well picked and guys like Kotelnik, Judah and Malignaggi really suit him. They probably also expected Peterson to box a little more. But the impression I was getting from the general boxing world was that Khan was now being seen as a credible threat to Mayweather, had left Bradley trailing to the point where he didnt even need to fight him and was on the cusp of top rated pound for pound status. In that context this fight was really a pretty bad loss for Khan as he was expected to be at least one level if not two above Peterson. So in that sense the style makes fights argument is less important in relation to his overall level as a fighter. Ive been mildly surprised that an upset like this seems to be met with a much more toned down kind of reaction as if its not hugely significant when for me I think it knocks Khan back to number two spot in the division at least and does ask some questions. I may be guilty of underselling Peterson here, but ultimately I see it as a pretty bad loss for Khan as even considering the styles make fights argument he was generally being considered a clear level above guys like Maidana and Peterson to the point where their styles should still not be sufficient to trouble him as badly as they did.

"Against Bradley, he will also lose. Not because Bradley is a better fighter. He isn't. Bu because Bradley is a more intelligent fighter who thinks."

100% correct Khan is the better fighter but Bradley is the better boxer! I have been saying this all along Khan loses to Bradley, styles do make fights and Peterson beating Khan proves nothing to an extent in regards to Khan v Bradley.

E.g. Hatton beat Castillo 4th round k.o yet the same Castillo went the distance with Mayweather twice, so going by this logic Hatton is better boxer than Floyd? styles do make fights and I agree with most Bradley will win.

PPVxHOTTY wrote:"Against Bradley, he will also lose. Not because Bradley is a better fighter. He isn't. Bu because Bradley is a more intelligent fighter who thinks."

100% correct Khan is the better fighter but Bradley is the better boxer! I have been saying this all along Khan loses to Bradley, styles do make fights and Peterson beating Khan proves nothing to an extent in regards to Khan v Bradley.

E.g. Hatton beat Castillo 4th round k.o yet the same Castillo went the distance with Mayweather twice, so going by this logic Hatton is better boxer than Floyd? styles do make fights and I agree with most Bradley will win.

Couple of things about Castillo. He went the distance against Floyd mainly because Floyd is not a big hitter. Also he was near his peak against Floyd. Against Hatton he was coming off some wars with that deceased boxer -Chico-(RIP)I believe.

Khan should win, and will win if he changes trainers to a Manny Steward type. Roach specialised in fighters who dart in and out throwing flurries with speed. Show them an alternative, they dont have a Plan B/ Look at Manny against SSM and JMM No plan B. Ditto Khan against Peterson and Maidana.

Diego Corrales

Due to their styles i would still go with a Khan UD with him using his hit and run tactics.

Waingro wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:Funny isn't it Fists, was just typing the same thing, one result and someone plummets down in there estimation massively.

You are right look at Haye he loses one fight nobody will give him a chance to beat Vitali but tbh Khan has been overrated alot and he lost to a guy that Bradley schooled so I cant see him beating Bradley. Haye lost to the number 1 heavyweight nowhere near as bad this guy Peterson was not the number 1 he was barely in the top 5/6 imo so it shows that Khan is overrated.

I think there are a few things being overlooked here for khan.

First of all, IMO he had an off night. He didnt seem to have the focus he had previously when he fought the likes of Kotelnik or even Maidana. This surprises me as Amir usually seems to have his head screwed on and knows what hes talking about.

Second of all, without the points deductions and a controversial slip/knocdown decision he would have won. add to that the home fighter possibility and thigns become completely different.

I seriously doubt due to the nature of khans constant use of mayweathers name and saying this was his last fight at 140 in the build up that he was 100% focused, and he thought he was going to stroll up to 147 and steam roll everyone, including floyd. He is still only 24 and this will (hopefully) be a learning curve. I thnk we will see an improved Amir next time out. I fully expect him to beat peterson in a return, and convincingly.

I think he has the potential to beat bradley, who I think is the one who is over rated. We may never know though as this fight may not happen.

There is no shame in defeat as long as you react the right way and learn from it, and I for one expect that of "king" khan.

with ref to khan vs floyd, there simply would be a somehwat brutal stoppage. Amir is far too easy to hit for floyd. Peterson ws landing at will.

would be over quicker than floyd vs hatton.

khan hasnt got the expirience to beat floyd, or even be competetive imo.

Without the deductions and the contentious knockdown think it would have been a majority draw.

manos de piedra wrote:

Bob wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Styles may make fights but I find it difficult to ignore this loss which I think should surely raise bigger doubts over Khans chances of beating either Bradley or Mayweather. Peterson beat Khan using tactics that are employed fairly regularly by Bradley, who is more adept and accustomed to them.

Are you referring to head-butting?

I still have Khan beating Bradley because Bradley doesn't like fighting someone who boxes behind a jab (like Holt)

What Im saying is the loss to Peterson, in my view, should really make one less confident in Khans ability to beat Bradley. There appeared to be some suggestion that based on a styles makes fight sort of basis that Khan losing to Peterson has little or no relevance to his chances of beating Bradley but I have to say I would be less confident in Khan after seeing the Peterson fight. Certainly I rate Bradleys chances as better than I did before the Peterson fight anyway.

I would have picked Khan pre-Peterson but I think it was because of this aura he was created for himself. He is a bit clueless when it comes to infighting and the constant pressure Bradley would put him under I believe he would be outworked for a UD

I still favour Khan to get a close but clear UD against Bradley.

If Bradley can't get Manny and Peterson opts not to rematch Khan straight away then maybe this fight will make Bradley call him out BUT I can imagine Khan or at least Roach will prefer an easier fight before.

This rather complicates matters!

I would heavily favour Khan to beat Peterson in rematch and think he just saw him as a stepping stone with bigger fights and more money on the horizon.

He was huge a favourite and regardless of the deducted points he was expected to not have to worry about points deducted as he was meant to win that clear!

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

Bob wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Styles may make fights but I find it difficult to ignore this loss which I think should surely raise bigger doubts over Khans chances of beating either Bradley or Mayweather. Peterson beat Khan using tactics that are employed fairly regularly by Bradley, who is more adept and accustomed to them.

Are you referring to head-butting?

I still have Khan beating Bradley because Bradley doesn't like fighting someone who boxes behind a jab (like Holt)

What Im saying is the loss to Peterson, in my view, should really make one less confident in Khans ability to beat Bradley. There appeared to be some suggestion that based on a styles makes fight sort of basis that Khan losing to Peterson has little or no relevance to his chances of beating Bradley but I have to say I would be less confident in Khan after seeing the Peterson fight. Certainly I rate Bradleys chances as better than I did before the Peterson fight anyway.

I would have picked Khan pre-Peterson but I think it was because of this aura he was created for himself. He is a bit clueless when it comes to infighting and the constant pressure Bradley would put him under I believe he would be outworked for a UD

Bradley likes to pressure from the outside, and butt on the inside. Peterson is a better inside fighter than both Bradley and Khan, and Khan is a much better fighter than Peterson on the outside, so it's not clear cut.

Biggest worry about Khan is his lack of ring generalship. He always ends up fighting the other guy's fight, and often only gets past them by using his outstanding attributes and atheleticism. Bradley is a lot smarter, and Khan will need to stick to a couple of gameplans as Bradley will undoubtedlychange his style if he feels he is losing. Whether he can do that remains to be seen, but though not a betting man my money would be on Khan if you put a gun to my head.

Bob wrote:
Biggest worry about Khan is his lack of ring generalship. He always ends up fighting the other guy's fight, and often only gets past them by using his outstanding attributes and atheleticism.

That's a terrific point in my opinion, Bob. Hadn't occurred to me till you raised it, but I reckon you have it bang on.

Spot on.

If he learns how to make fights HIS fight, then there aren't many I'd back to beat him, certainly wouldn't back many (if any) to outpoint him.

Agreed Bob

Khan is tall has good handspeed and when he sits down on his punches - decent power. He is quick around the ring.

But he hasn't learnt to dominate fights - he hasn't learnt to exert his will.

The issue with a Bradley-Khan fight is that Bradley has an excellent inside game. Were the fight to happen - and the boxing to be done on the outside - Khan should be comfortable with superior handspeed.

But Bradley always comes forward and likes to pressure opponents. Khan has talked a good game about being able to keep Bradley off him.

However - on the evidence of Peterson (even if he took his eye off the ball) and Maidana - how is he going to do that? What's his plan? Against Bradley - he says its going to be the uppercut as Bradley comes in. Really? Great idea - but whe people come into him, thus far, he has been reaching his arms to tie them up - rather than throwing the uppercut.

He's work to do before he becomes a favourite against Bradley in my eyes.

Lack of ring generalship just about sums it up. He panics at the wrong times. He loses rounds he shouldn't lose. He struggles with pressure. Even the little tactics he's learned to tie fighters up are too obvious. That push down of the head looks too clearly like a foul - but if he doesn't do it he eats uppercuts. He needs something else. More of those uppercuts would've been better for a start. The Peterson fight was very similar to the Maidana fight, only Peterson has less one-punch concussive power, but a good deal more accuracy. I see a Khan-Bradley fight going along similar lines again. Khan will dominate Bradley on the outside, but Bradley will be intelligent enough to pressure him. If that fight happens Khan better attempt to get a sympathetic referee, because, unless he picks up a new trick, he's going to have to use that head push against the lunging attacks of the smaller Bradley.