Does this apply to boxing?

You know the saying;

"Why don't you pick on someone your own size"

Well can it be said that boxers should pick opponents who are at the same stage (or there abouts) in their respective careers. And that fighters in their prime shouldn't be fighting has beens.

I know it's a business but on a personal level Pacquiao must know that Mosley has the slightest of chances against him. Wouldn't Pacquiao have felt that fighting an over the hill Mosley proves nothing and doesn't enhance his legacy one bit. Even if the Mayweather fight wasn't available, there are other intrigueing match ups as opposed to laying a beat down on old man Mosley.

What I'm getting at is that in the end Pacquiao is the one who signs the fight and gets in the ring to put everything on the line. He should have made a better choice for an opponent!

It doesn't surprise me in the slightest to be perfectly honest with you whilst Manny is a supreme athlete and an amazing Boxer, the latter stages of his career are far from the perceived levels of brilliance some of his more 'dedicated' fans who proclaim.

I'm not sure why a certain someone doesn't see the irony of Pac fighting someone who Mayweather destroyed in a master schooling in the art of Boxing.

Cue D4...

Mosley is the best fighter Pacquiao could face at welterweight.

When Pacquiao beat Oscar they were 4 fighter ranked above him at welter.

Those fighters were Clottey, Margarito, Cotto and Mosley. Pacquiao is just looking to complete the set.

6 months after people were accusing Pacquiao for ducking Mosley, Pacquiao make move to get the Mosley fight on and now people say he shouldn't fight him.

I always thought football fans were fickle but boxing fans are on a whole other level.

D4thincarnation wrote:Mosley is the best fighter Pacquiao could face at welterweight.

When Pacquiao beat Oscar they were 4 fighter ranked above him at welter.

Those fighters were Clottey, Margarito, Cotto and Mosley. Pacquiao is just looking to complete the set.

6 months after people were accusing Pacquiao for ducking Mosley, Pacquiao make move to get the Mosley fight on and now people say he shouldn't fight him.

I always thought football fans were fickle but boxing fans are on a whole other level.

Hang on D4, I seem to remember you once saying that Floyd would in fact beat Shane as he was past his sell by date; what's changed?

Nothing has changed.

Yes Shane is past his best but still better than the like of Berto, Brook, Zaveck, Ortiz, Gomez or Jones.

Hence he is the best available.

Only fights out there for manny are berto (he would ko) mosely and marquez. Mosley was easily beaten by floyd mayweather so I don't really know how much credit manny will get unless he knocks him out in 2 rounds. Everything to lose and nothing to gain in that fight.

SSM brings name recognition and therefore money. Its irrelevant tha the's more shot than JFK.

Yes he has a punchers chance. So does George Foreman is he fights Vitali.

I can see that there isn't an outright obvious opponent who chooses himself (barring Mayweather) but Mosley! It's baffling to me going by his past two performances. I would put Mosley on par with Roy Jones Jr in terms of being over the hill(ok I'm exagerrating but with the form Pacquiao's in, it might as well be Roy Jones fighting in place of Mosley and it wouldn't make a difference!).

Marquez should have been given a go, not only does he deserve it but it's a marketable fight and it would have done good business. Would have added to Pacquiao's legacy and respectability. And if Pacquiao blew him away then a debate would have been settled. I know that Marquez asked for too much money but there should have been a counter offer and the fight should have been pursued. If the fight is made in the future then it could be argued that Marquez would be older and past it.

Other then that yes Pacquiao would be favorite against say Berto, etc. but the match up would have been MUCH more interesting then Mosley.
Berto might not be at Pacquiao's level but the fight would be closer then against Mosley and Berto is strong and could spring a few surprises.

What's getting to me is how SHOT Mosley is and I can't envision how this fight could go any other way then a shut out of Mosley either by brutal KO stoppage or Mosley retires on the stool.

Pacquiao's legacy is beginning to look more and more questionable with with each passing fight.

How was De La Hoya ranked number 5 in the Welterweight division or are you using boxrecs rankings again?

spacetime wrote:I can see that there isn't an outright obvious opponent who chooses himself (barring Mayweather) but Mosley! It's baffling to me going by his past two performances. I would put Mosley on par with Roy Jones Jr in terms of being over the hill(ok I'm exagerrating but with the form Pacquiao's in, it might as well be Roy Jones fighting in place of Mosley and it wouldn't make a difference!).

Marquez should have been given a go, not only does he deserve it but it's a marketable fight and it would have done good business. Would have added to Pacquiao's legacy and respectability. And if Pacquiao blew him away then a debate would have been settled. I know that Marquez asked for too much money but there should have been a counter offer and the fight should have been pursued. If the fight is made in the future then it could be argued that Marquez would be older and past it.

Other then that yes Pacquiao would be favorite against say Berto, etc. but the match up would have been MUCH more interesting then Mosley.
Berto might not be at Pacquiao's level but the fight would be closer then against Mosley and Berto is strong and could spring a few surprises.

What's getting to me is how SHOT Mosley is and I can't envision how this fight could go any other way then a shut out of Mosley either by brutal KO stoppage or Mosley retires on the stool.

Pacquiao's legacy is beginning to look more and more questionable with with each passing fight.

Spacetime

You are entirely right in your summation. This came up in a more indirect sense in another thread a while ago but essentially Pacquiaos career from Lightweight onwards has been rather horribly manufactured and designed to encounter the least risk possible. This kind of tactic is more acceptable with a prospect or a fighter that needs protecting but its rather cynical when you are talking about the supposed best fighter in the world.

However Pacquiaos merits below lightweight stand on their own and he has a genuine claim to be the best of his time in the small weight categories even though it can be argued timing favoured him. Nonetheless his record there stands on its own as does the level of competition he faced. Its here that Pacquiaos legacy should be judged primarily. Once you go past the second Marquez fight then his career is just staged managed. His last two fights especially have highlighted this.

Its a rather damning reflection of the sport at the moment that the two biggest draws and the two top ranked fighters have been carrying on like they are. Mayweather is content to use his talent oh so sparingly and Pacquiao simply picks, chooses and stacks the deck in his favour across a choice of several divisions. The fact they cant make a fight happen between them is yet another black mark.

They may both be top RANKED, but the problem is that they're not both Top Rank...

Colonial Lion & expertBoxingMaster,

Thanks for reaffirming what I'm thinking. Sadly you guys are right, boxings standard are indeed at an all time low during which we are witnessing two "supposed" all-time greats in Pacquiao & Mayweather.

Well that's something I've got to come to terms with, it's just harder because Pacquiao is the reason I started following boxing in the first place!

Perhaps D4thincarnation is right and I have been fickle, fickle in thinking Pacquiao's victories over De La Hoya, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, and Margarito were so great! Since the signing of the Mosley fight I've had to re-evaluate many of Pacquiao's past achievements.

And like you guys, I agree that his accolades at the lower weights are unquestionable but above Lightweight it's just been too PERFECT, so much so that it's now becoming obvious that there's a design.

I might have been fooled to begin with but I was new to the sport and have since gained perspective and will not follow anyone so ardently that they could do no wrong.

My passion for boxing has gone down a few notches but I will hold out for a boxer who genuinely fights for the thrill of the legacy! Imagine that, a boxer who's truly committed to the sport and fights for it as oppposed to filling up his wallet!

spacetime wrote:Perhaps D4thincarnation is right

No. Just...no.

When Pacquiao beat Oscar they were 4 fighter ranked above him at welter

------------------------

Oscar wasn't ranked at welterweight FFS!!!!!!

Why?

I'll spell it out as i know you're struggling with simple things - He hadn't fought at 147 since 2001.

Stop making stuff up D4, i do wonder how someone who "claims" to be 30 acts like a childish little boy with all your incessant little fabrications.

spacetime wrote:Colonial Lion & expertBoxingMaster,

Thanks for reaffirming what I'm thinking. Sadly you guys are right, boxings standard are indeed at an all time low during which we are witnessing two "supposed" all-time greats in Pacquiao & Mayweather.

Well that's something I've got to come to terms with, it's just harder because Pacquiao is the reason I started following boxing in the first place!

Perhaps D4thincarnation is right and I have been fickle, fickle in thinking Pacquiao's victories over De La Hoya, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, and Margarito were so great! Since the signing of the Mosley fight I've had to re-evaluate many of Pacquiao's past achievements.

And like you guys, I agree that his accolades at the lower weights are unquestionable but above Lightweight it's just been too PERFECT, so much so that it's now becoming obvious that there's a design.

I might have been fooled to begin with but I was new to the sport and have since gained perspective and will not follow anyone so ardently that they could do no wrong.

My passion for boxing has gone down a few notches but I will hold out for a boxer who genuinely fights for the thrill of the legacy! Imagine that, a boxer who's truly committed to the sport and fights for it as oppposed to filling up his wallet!

I agree with much of what you say. But boxers who fight for legacy are called amateurs. Boxing is a dangerous as Mike Waston and G-Man will testify due to their serious brain injuries. They fight for money forst and legacy second. The bigger the legacy the bigger their purse. But I get the gist of what you mean.

If boxers fight for money first and legacy second (which is true) then surely it's the accomplished boxers who continue to fight past the point of being rich, in order ot build and cement their legacies? Why does Pacquiao still fight (it's not for the simple pure joy on the smiling faces of the working class millions around the world, contrary to some people's beliefs)? Why are the Klitschkos still fighting? Marquez, Morales, Barrera, etc etc... Whether or not it's the smartest choice they could make there are plenty of guys out there who could retire and live comfortably but choose not to.

BALTIMORA wrote:If boxers fight for money first and legacy second (which is true) then surely it's the accomplished boxers who continue to fight past the point of being rich, in order ot build and cement their legacies? Why does Pacquiao still fight (it's not for the simple pure joy on the smiling faces of the working class millions around the world, contrary to some people's beliefs)? Why are the Klitschkos still fighting? Marquez, Morales, Barrera, etc etc... Whether or not it's the smartest choice they could make there are plenty of guys out there who could retire and live comfortably but choose not to.

For more money. I remember a quote from Larry Holmes after Tyson falttened. Someone showed him a pic of himself flat on his back. Holmes said "give me $4m and I'll pose for you like that again".

i don't think you can blame boxers for fighting boxers past there prime- they just fight who they have infront of them, they cant help when they fight them or the fact that there oppent is over the hill, theres always the chance that on the night they might lose as well

eddyfightfan wrote:i don't think you can blame boxers for fighting boxers past there prime- they just fight who they have infront of them, they cant help when they fight them or the fact that there oppent is over the hill, theres always the chance that on the night they might lose as well

Also boxers are often the last to know when to retire. Of course they love the challenge also, but primarily they do so for the money with legacy etc a distant second. Ask any top boxer if they would take a pay cut to secure their legacy and they'd go missing quicker than Floyd.

It appears as though I'm saying that boxers shouldn't be fighting for large paydays but to the contrary I don't have a problem with that. I understand that they put there life and health on the line so should collect the riches. It's just the fight shouldn't just be about the money, and the legacy should also be taken into account. That's my frustration with Pacquiao vs Mosley being signed. It's SOLELY for money.

Imagine Pacquiao losing to Mosley, can you imagine this. All of Pacquiao's handlers would be aware of this; should Pacquiao lose or not completely dump Mosley. The RICHEST fight in boxing history between Pacquaio and Mayweather would vanish within seconds. The Mosley fight is in the bag for Pacquaio and it was arranged solely for financial gains which is why I have lost all respect for Pacquiao! He should have kept his legacy in mind and fought either Marquez or Berto. Both of which I think he wins and they enhance his image as opposed to confirming that he does only fight over the hill, damaged, old fighters.

D4thincarnation wrote:Nothing has changed.

Yes Shane is past his best but still better than the like of Berto, Brook, Zaveck, Ortiz, Gomez or Jones.

Hence he is the best available.

he's not. Berto would beat Mosley with ease.
manny has done it for the money, JMM is the best out there around mannys weight.
beating an over the hill former great who was beaten with ease off the only man who many think can beat manny isnt proving anything.

beating an unbeaten berto or proving once and for all he is far better than JMM is much more appealing to me.
he's taken the money on this one, no excuses.

I wouldn't say facing Miguel Cotto, Antonio Margarito, or Hatton at his best weight is taking things easy. Actually, while in hindsight he was the clear favourite against DLH, its not easy to fight someone so much larger and he gained considerable weight. Pacquiao could have select a much easier career, don't even take on world champs. What about Felix Sturm? The last 12 fights of Manny's career have been against world champions.

iIts physically impossible to compete against the highest level opposition in every fight., the boxer's brains would rapidly become mush. Every fighter is entitled to shift the gears down a bit. Further, after 57+ fights, he's not a work horse to be shipped into one top level fight after the other. Bar a couple more contests, thats pretty much been Pacquiao's career. There probably wont be anymore big nights in the ring.

Mosely is a well known figure on the circuit, has a strong history at WW and generally boxing. There will be a profile to the fight and people will talk about it. Also, its a chance for Pacquiao to showcase his skills. But, Mosely is still a tough campaigner and a powerful one, in a sense the risk/ reward ratio doesn't add up. If you want to gurantee beating someone, find an 'easier' opponent.

I'm not convinced about JMM either. At his age, moving up 2 or even 1.5 weight divisions would be to much. I'm not sure if Pacquiao can get away with fighting a lightweight world champ. Perhaps, the draw leaves a rematch open, but technically Pacquiao's already ahead. He doesn't really need a rematch.

You do realise Chris that Pacquiao could quite easily fight Marquez at 140lbs but that would be a far riskier fight than Mosley so the choice was obvious.

I wouldn't class Margarito a tough fight at all any more

Fighters get into boxing for a love of the sport and stay in it for the money no matter what level they fight at. I'm not Pac's biggest fan think Floyd would have a bit of an easy nights work due to Pac's come forward style and Floyd's counter punching and defensive ability. But do agree that above lightweight his legacy is debateable but will he care when he checks his bank balance.