Adam Jones The Next To Go To France ?

First topic message reminder :

It seems everyone wants to play in France...
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2011/12/12/ospreys-and-wales-prop-adam-jones-set-to-consider-french-move-91466-29941669/

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:. Given there probably are around 40 games or so until the next WC, how long would you leave it before you bring players in?

I personally think Adam Jones will play in the next world cup with Gethin if injuries don't take their toll.

Ledesma did alright in the front row.

He may play a part. But I'm seriously worried if this is the case as we would have totally failed to develop someone. At 33/34 injuries take longer to get over and rarely are you playing the same standard of rugby that you where during your peak years 27-31.

Welshmushroom wrote:I know the Clubs seem to think they pay their stars a lot and then dont have them as much as they would like but they need to be careful on this especially if Warren selects inhouse regardless and they continue to lose players (even if its not the ones they initially planned on).

Chunky Norwich wrote:Which is why the WRU need to keep the players in Wales - and keep the regional owwners happy. If we end up with our first 15 overseas - not playing for Wales - and Gatland selecting 2nd choice Wales squads then Wales will get hammered by Scotland every game, and the regions will get hammerred by the likes of Aironi every game.

At some point you will lose your first 15 to either retirement, injury or lack of form. I see no evidence that supports your Theory. The Scarlets promoted youth and I dont see them getting hammered. Infact given oppertunities at high level rugby will only strengthen teams. Something most the Welsh Regions are starting to find out. They have most of their youngster pathways in function now and looking at Regional Youth Teams its looking promising. Essentially if every Region can produce 2 new players each year, Welsh Rugby will be in a good place.

Welshmushroom wrote:The whole point is that each Region should have 2 players in every position who is of the standard they could represent Wales at National level.

Chunky Norwich wrote:That is a big ask. We normally have only 15 - 20 test quality players.

Why is it a big ask? We have only been proffessional for a short period of time. I'm seeing signs that youth rugby is promising as people are realizing its a viable job option these days. If the mindset and talent is there the talent will follow. If the kids of tomorrow are conditioned and prepared properly and playing with seasoned Pro's I dont see why this is not a realistic target.

Welshmushroom wrote:Until the regions have that kind of depth it is understandable why they are not to happy about call ups. To be fair the only reason this is actually an issue at the moment is because the attendances at Regional level are so poor. If we had Leinster's attendances they could afford to keep their better players.

Chunky Norwich wrote:Catch 22. It won't get better as we don't have the player base. And the Pro 12 is an awful product.

I couldnt disagree with you more. Sure the standard of Referes isn't great at times and sure not every team has the ability to win the league but you get that anywhere.

To suggest Welsh attendances are due to a lack of quality at league level is seriously missing the point on why attendances are poor. There are several factors:-

1. Recession - Wether people believe it or not there are a hell of a lot of people who just cant afford it right now and even though the regions have season tickets at absolute bargains (£200), it does not equate that people have the cash to spend in the first place. After all the ticket is not the only cost. Dont underestimate this.

2. Regionalisation - A ton of People still follow the Club game. They refuse to get behind the regions in the proffessional era.

3. Club Rugby clashes - Plenty of Rugby enthusiast in Wales dont get the chance to go to watch due to their own playing commitments at Club Level. I have several friends in this category.

4. The National following - 90% of the People at the MS are not really real rugby fans. Dont get me wrong they support Wales and being Welsh but these are more like annual events in the calender than a weekly commitment. You just wont see them at Club Level.

5. Ground Locations - Probably the Blues are the biggest ones of this. They lost a lots of fans in the move. This was actually down to the fact the original stadium was in such a good location.

6. Football - Swansea and Cardiff have a big football following these days. Essentially this wont help Rugby grow as a sport.

So like i said, until the old brigade go we wont see a massive change in attendances. It will take some time but we will get there.

mushroom,

Agree on all your points bar No5. I still find it incredible that some Blues fans won't go to the CCS because it is out of town. How do they think fans from Ebbw and Ponty feel etc.

bedfordwelsh wrote:mushroom,

Agree on all your points bar No5. I still find it incredible that some Blues fans won't go to the CCS because it is out of town. How do they think fans from Ebbw and Ponty feel etc.

Sorry I dont think I expanded on this point enough. Basically the good attendances last season applied to the fact that the rugby was only a secondary attraction. Friday and Saturday games worked well for people who happened to be going to Cardiff on the lash. Which only left the hardened supporters heading to the new venue and even some of those refused to do that.

It shouldnt be an issue but fans seem to make it one. To be fair most of the points on my list just go to show how tough it is for the regions to reach out to the fans. We dont seem to like change much.

I do hope it all changes one day and people get behind the regions cause I would dread the day that there are no proffessionl rugby sides in Wales.

I know the Dragons are doing a lot in and around the Gwent region to attract the next generation of supporter.

And as much as I hate some of the kick off times which are of course generated by TV at least it gives boys who are playing on Saturday afternoon chance to do both.

Kingshu wrote:how do you propose top up contracts work?

It sounds like the WRU giving the Welsh regions more money, but not getting any say in it.

Gareth Baber joins in, and makes the point about top ups:

"You have to increase the size of your squad and pay other players to play games in the RaboDirect Pro12 while they are away, and that is where the pressure comes from.

"Trying to compete with clubs in France, it is not possible to pay those players and run the rest of squad, it becomes nonsensical, because you might as well not have them (the internationals) and have the money to pay other players, you may lose them but at least you would still have a squad.

"We have to find a way forward to make sure we don't lose our best players. We are so far down the line that central contracts would be difficult to put in place but some form of assistance or top up to keep our best players in Wales would certainly be welcomed."