Scotland's flyhalf for the 6Ns and beyond

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:00 am

An interesting piece in today's Herald: Scottish 10 set me thinking about the relative merits of the different flyhalves that Scotland can choose from for the upcoming 6Ns and beyond. For once, the last of candidates is fairly long, even if none of them yet would automatically merit the tag of 'international class':

Duncan Weir - Glasgow Warriors

Has come up thru the age group ranks, and was arguably Scotland's best player at last summer's JWC. Flawless kicking game, nearly in the Parks mould, but can struggle to get a backline moving

Ruaridh Jackson - Glasgow Warriors

Also came thru the age group ranks and seemed to be taking his chances in last year's 6Ns and at the RWC in NZ. Picked up an unlucky hamstring injury in the final match vs England. Kicking suspect, but is capable of getting a backline moving, altho it doesn't always come off

Harry Leonard - Edinburgh

Again, an age group star, has really taken his chance at Edinburgh this year in his first pro season. Has filled in for Phil Godman as he recovers from injury and taken advantage of David Blair's departure. Kicks beautifully, but is more of a ball in hand merchant, happy to attack the line himself or set his backline moving. Has been hauled off by Bradley at half-time in a couple of recent European games, altho that's seemed overly cautious to me

Dan Parks - Cardiff Blues

The man christened 'Desparate' for some of his more woeful performances, but every time you write him off, he springs a surprise - he is the marmite of 10s, a player that will keep the scoreboard ticking over and secure no end of territory for your team, even if that territory only leads to points accumulating in 3s. Can't tackle, won't tackle, has to be hidden on a blindside wing in defence

Phil Godman - Edinburgh

Out for a huge chunk of last season and only just getting back to full fitness now. A confidence player that can be sublime and terrible in equal measure, altho we've seen more of the latter than I'd care for. More of a ball in hand first five-eighth than a territorial 10, altho he does actually have a decent boot on him

Sam Hidalgo-Clyne - Scotland 7s/Edinburgh's academy

The youngest of the lot, talked up as having huge promise, and away with the permanent 7s squad at the moment. From all that I have read about him, he is an all-rounder in the Rutherford mould

So, who would you pick for the 6Ns squad and beyond? I've ignored one or two outside candidates such as Grieg Laidlaw (he must stay at scrum-half even if we use him as cover for 10), Matt Scott (seems to have the makings of a very useful IC) and Stuart Hogg (has been a revelation for Glasgow at fullback this season, even if he did play 10 as a schoolboy and Lineen thinks that 15 isn't his best position)

by TJ1 Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:33 pm

Weir.

However there is a few games to go yet and its a close thing between him and Jackson. Weir needs to develop a running game that he does not really have. Reminds me a bit of Craig Chalmers in playing style

by nickj Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:32 pm

I know I'm going to get some criticism for this, but I think we'll stick with Jackson and I'm pretty happy with that. The trouble is that until Morrison loses the 12 shirt, or Shlong develops a passing game, we're not going to get the best out of Jackson.

I'd love to see Weir given a chance, as he's been great this season (and last) but if Dan 'keeps the scoreboard ticking' for Cardiff, I think we'll see him on the bench for the 6 N's. Weir should be in the squad.

Its all to play for re the Summer Tour though, and I think we'll see a very young team travelling. I'd like to see Weir, Leonard, Scott et al tour.

Personally I'd like to see some of the youngsters blooded before the tour but I don't think Robbo will risk it.

Q - following his involvement with England's 'tour from hell', will Robbo shy away from touring with youngsters?

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:37 pm

nickj wrote:I know I'm going to get some criticism for this, but I think we'll stick with Jackson and I'm pretty happy with that. The trouble is that until Morrison loses the 12 shirt, or Shlong develops a passing game, we're not going to get the best out of Jackson.

I'd love to see Weir given a chance, as he's been great this season (and last) but if Dan 'keeps the scoreboard ticking' for Cardiff, I think we'll see him on the bench for the 6 N's. Weir should be in the squad.

Its all to play for re the Summer Tour though, and I think we'll see a very young team travelling. I'd like to see Weir, Leonard, Scott et al tour.

Personally I'd like to see some of the youngsters blooded before the tour but I don't think Robbo will risk it.

Q - following his involvement with England's 'tour from hell', will Robbo shy away from touring with youngsters?

nick, sincerely hope not, will be gutted if he does. Think you're right about 12 too, but if Robbo starts by picking a 12, then selects a 10 based on his 12, that is completely arse-over-Holly Wilaboobie if you ask me

by nickj Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:23 pm

Agreed. You pick your 10 then build a team around him. I'd love to see Jackson with young Matthew Scott as his 12. Who, in turn, is partnered by Nick De Luca. As long as the defensive system was robust we would be away. Picking the right 10 dictates the whole backline IMO. That said I'm also excited about what Weir and Leonard offer.

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:32 pm

Remember chaps that Bennett will have recovered from his cruciate damage soon at Clermond - he is a bloody talented centre

by **George Carlin** Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:58 pm

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Remember chaps that Bennett will have recovered from his cruciate damage soon at Clermond - he is a bloody talented centre

Cross everything Schizoid - a cruciate ligament rupture usually means 6 months out minimum and he did it right at the end of August.

No idea whether Robinson will even look at him for the AIs squad - he really needs some game time with Clermont first. Barsteward luck.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:49 pm

Can't see Bennett making it back in time sadly, chaps, but hope that he gets a spot on the summer tour. Would expect him to hold the 13 jersey come 2015

by Imperialbigdave Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:01 pm

He needs to be playing first team rugby for clermont for at least a full season before he should be considered for international games. As far as im aware he hasnt played once for them yet, though I could be wrong.

Back to parks however, and i was watching the video of wilkinsons "kicks, hits and injuries" on the beeb website, and it had that try against us in 2007, the one where parks couldve tackled Wilkinson, but didnt even attempt it. Brought back a lot of anger...

by **George Carlin** Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:09 pm

Nice to have list of options longer than two.

Good and Desperate should not be allowed to wear the thistle again. The first is simply not international class and the second has a game that is stifling the team.

Sam Clyne is doing well with the 7s - great idea to take him and it will get his fitness levels right up. We should keep him off the international scene for another couple of years.

Two things I've like views on:

1. I haven't had the chance to see Edinburgh much this season. How much of a real international class prospect is Leonard. Is he as good as Weir? He sounds a bit like Blair, actually.

2. I'm not sure I understand the constant references to Weir being unable to spark a backline. Is this really true? Isn't it more reflective of having Morrison inside him much of the time?

by HERSH Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:14 pm

Scotland's flyhalf for the 6Ns and beyond.

They're hardly spoilt for choice Laugh

by **George Carlin** Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:34 pm

HERSH wrote:Scotland's flyhalf for the 6Ns and beyond.

They're hardly spoilt for choice

Hersh - mainland Germany called. They want their appaling sense of "humour" and natual ability to antagonise back.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:34 pm

Blown away by your rugby knowledge again, Hersh Laugh

by Tattie Scones RRN Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:06 pm

I'd go for Jackson against England to start and when we've pulled away from them by around 20 points, I'd stick Weir on with 15 minutes to go.

Laidlaw at 9 though for the kicking so we can have Hogg at 15.

Can't wait for this xmas crap to pass so we can get the 6N underway.

by HERSH Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:09 pm

I'd go for Parks.

'On his day' his a good Fly half.

by Scot Abroad Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:14 pm

HERSH wrote:I'd go for Parks.

'On his day' his a good Fly half.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Blown away by your rugby knowledge again, Hersh

by **George Carlin** Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:15 pm

Mind you Hersh, to give you credit - as a Bath fan, you must know cr@p when you see it. Run

by HERSH Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:16 pm

Do Scotland play rugby? Scotland's flyhalf for the 6Ns and beyond 3513163098

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:27 pm

HERSH wrote:Do Scotland play rugby?

An interesting question, much in the same vain as 'why does Hersh exist?' - pls go and spoil someone else's thread, there's a good fella

by HERSH Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:33 pm

I gave my opinion, I'd go for Parks, Jacksons ok maybe in a couple of years he'll do a good job, and as for spoiling the thread that was already done my friend at the start.

by TJ1 Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:48 pm

George Carlin wrote:Nice to have list of options longer than two.

2. I'm not sure I understand the constant references to Weir being unable to spark a backline. Is this really true? Isn't it more reflective of having Morrison inside him much of the time?

He is a very good kicker, decent passer, not much of a running game. Reads the game well. rather reminds me of Craig Chalmers in how he plays.

Bette rthan parks as he is not a defensive liability and he seems to have good confidence. Not the finished article by a long way yet. Jackson at his best is a better atttacking prospect with the ball in hand but Weir is more reliable. Needs to develop a running game tho.

by Scot Abroad Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:56 pm

Weir is solid defensively, especially for a wee man. He’s got some boot on him. How he only takes 2 steps at penalties and conversions and still puts it that far is beyond me. I do agree that he needs to work on his running game and he sometimes makes some immature decisions. But that’s to be expected from the youngsters. They get better with experience. While I don’t think he should be starting the England game, a place on the bench and involvement with the squad will do him the world of good. The summer tour is the time for the youngsters to make their mark on the international stage.

by Knowsit17 Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:49 pm

I'd say try and centre this 6N around Leonard and one of Jackson/Weir (with the other keeping busy for Glasgow), with either Parks or Godman waiting on the wings to provide a more experienced option if needed. Whoever out of Jackson/Weir isn't selected could then star in the summer or next season. You really couldn't wish for a better base from which to build a solid depth at 10.

by damngoodOvalball Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:05 pm

Personally, I think Scotland are the dark horses for the next 6N

by Knowsit17 Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:22 pm

damngoodOvalball wrote:Personally, I think Scotland are the dark horses for the next 6N

Except when they play in their reserve kit, then they'll be the bright horses Scotland's flyhalf for the 6Ns and beyond 3845856932

by GreatEight Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:05 pm

I'm delighted there is now some sort of choice at ten it's been a real problem for years. I think Jackson looked very good in New Zealand and Weir gives a different option - like Parks - but better @)

Leonard? Give him another 18 months to find his feet, he's only played what? Four games at pro level?!?

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:42 pm

Knowsit17 - take it you are English/Welsh or have strayed in from the wendyball posts as your knowledge of Scottish Rugby is woeful. If you honestly think we should have Leonard start with Godman/Parks on the bench you are seriously deluded. Leonard is way behind both Jackson and Weir and is not even the best 10 at Edinburgh - Laidlaw is the best 10 (and 9). Godamn and Parks have had their day (unfortunately their days went on far too long) - even a stubborn, conservative coach like Robinson would have to acknowledge that. warning

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:44 pm

Forgot to say Hersh please GTAFFTY Scotland's flyhalf for the 6Ns and beyond 3181402168

by TJ1 Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:10 pm

The Edinburgh / Glasgow double header and the Edinburgh / Cardiff games will show a lot.

Its all to play for still. For me its still Cussiter / weir with Jackson and Laidlaw on the bench.

If Robinson picks parks there will be a riot. we need to get the outside runners going

by doctor_grey Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:25 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Dan Parks - Cardiff Blues
he is the marmite of 10s

Could not agree more. Looks like Marmite, plays like merde.

by damngoodOvalball Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:23 pm

I know that scotland are always supposed to be the below radar threat, and I also appreciate belief in ones team and know that they gave England a scare in the RWC. But the poster who suggest a bench change once Scotland are 20 clear of England. Scotland haven't scored a try since the end of world war 2. It's like they still think tries are subject to rationing. England might be awful but the day that they go 20 points clear of England or any top 10 team is the day I win the quadruple rollover euromillions. It will happen obviously

by IanBru Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:33 pm

Damngood,

Am I going to have to explain the nature of irony?

[sigh]

I guess I'd better get out the sock puppets.

by TJ1 Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:49 pm

I guess he thought you were welsh with your massive over optimism Wink

by maestegmafia Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:06 am

TJ wrote:I guess he thought you were welsh with your massive over optimism

May have moved on from trolling the welsh to one of the few Nations his beloved team have beaten recently. Cant wait til your lads put paid to that in the Calcutta Cup this year.

Anyhow... Reading through your debate, I agree that Jackson is the man, Weir is back up and anyone who rates Dan Parks should not be taken even vaguely seriously.

Also agree that inside center is your biggest issue, has been since John Leslie retired.

by Knowsit17 Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:33 am

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Knowsit17 - take it you are English/Welsh or have strayed in from the wendyball posts as your knowledge of Scottish Rugby is woeful. If you honestly think we should have Leonard start with Godman/Parks on the bench you are seriously deluded. Leonard is way behind both Jackson and Weir and is not even the best 10 at Edinburgh - Laidlaw is the best 10 (and 9). Godamn and Parks have had their day (unfortunately their days went on far too long) - even a stubborn, conservative coach like Robinson would have to acknowledge that.

Initially I hesitated about picking Leonard. In terms of development he probably is behind both Weir and Jackson but seeing as both play for Glasgow one could stay behind for the club's benefit during the 6N. You could still easily call them up whenever you wanted in the tournament. Anyway what I said was just a suggestion from a sceptic neutral, not what I believe must happen. Nothing to get bent up about.

Parks is still helping the Blues win games, despite the moaning of some it's the result that counts first and foremost. He might not be a big-game player but this 6N won't be seen as the biggest of occasions for most sides, for many it's a new beginning. Godman is 29, hardly could be considered as having seen his day. In any case I didn't suggest having both in the squad, I said one for the sake of experience as Jackson, Weir and Leonard have next to none in comparison.

Curiously, what makes you jump to the conclusion that English/Welsh people have no knowledge of Scottish rugby? I'll have you know I had a Scottish grandmother Rolling Eyes

by Tattie Scones RRN Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:28 am

damngoodOvalball wrote:I know that scotland are always supposed to be the below radar threat, and I also appreciate belief in ones team and know that they gave England a scare in the RWC. But the poster who suggest a bench change once Scotland are 20 clear of England. Scotland haven't scored a try since the end of world war 2. It's like they still think tries are subject to rationing. England might be awful but the day that they go 20 points clear of England or any top 10 team is the day I win the quadruple rollover euromillions. It will happen obviously

I have a name you know Sad

by **George Carlin** Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:16 am

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:
damngoodOvalball wrote:I know that scotland are always supposed to be the below radar threat, and I also appreciate belief in ones team and know that they gave England a scare in the RWC. But the poster who suggest a bench change once Scotland are 20 clear of England. Scotland haven't scored a try since the end of world war 2. It's like they still think tries are subject to rationing. England might be awful but the day that they go 20 points clear of England or any top 10 team is the day I win the quadruple rollover euromillions. It will happen obviously

I have a name you know

Don't listen Tattie, don't listen to them.
They don't understand you like we do. Hug

by RuggerRadge2611 Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:38 am

Jackson is the man in possesion for me, despite not being inspiring against the Dragons. He picked up an injury in the RWC and to be honest it would be unfair to bench or drop him from the Scotland setup when he played pretty well in the RWC.

Weir is a very good option but seems to be creeping a wee bit too much into the Dan Parks mould, albeit he can make his tackles instead of being turned into a speed bump.

In truth though I reckon it is in Leonard at Edinburgh that we'll get a running fly half. He is still young and I think would learn a lot from being included in the Scotland setup.

It will be interesting to see how Laidlaw gets on at 10 tonight against the Blues.

by Imperialbigdave Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:02 pm

Just wait till Hidalgo Clyne pulls on the shirt. With a name like that, youve got to be a cool customer.

Let this officially be the start of the Hidalgo Clyne bandwagon. Well start off slowly, but in about three weeks time, well be unstopable!

by IanBru Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:29 pm

This could be fun.

I heard that when Hidalgo Clyne does pushups, he pushes the world down.

by damngoodOvalball Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:42 pm

damngoodOvalball wrote:I know that scotland are always supposed to be the below radar threat, and I also appreciate belief in ones team and know that they gave England a scare in the RWC. But the poster who suggest a bench change once Scotland are 20 clear of England. Scotland haven't scored a try since the end of world war 2. It's like they still think tries are subject to rationing. England might be awful but the day that they go 20 points clear of England or any top 10 team is the day I win the quadruple rollover euromillions. It will happen obviously

by Imperialbigdave Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:43 pm

IanBru wrote:This could be fun.

I heard that when Hidalgo Clyne does pushups, he pushes the world down.

I heard that Viggo Mortenson specifically asked to name that horse movie for sam, after Michael Hutchence came to him in a dream and told him of the boys potential.

by Imperialbigdave Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:49 pm

IanBru wrote:This could be fun.

I heard that when Hidalgo Clyne does pushups, he pushes the world down.

So thats what Chuck Norris meant when he said that Hidalgo Clyne had the power of the population of china all jjumping at once...

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:54 pm

Tripping dudes ! Scotland's flyhalf for the 6Ns and beyond 3845856932

by TJ1 Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:42 pm

Weir better than Jackson today IMO. laidlaw ( I didn't see the game tho) maybe the best of the lot yesterday.

Even a show and go from Weir and he nealry made it to teh line - and h made the try with some good running and vision.

by IanBru Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:55 pm

I heard that before Chuck Norris goes to sleep every night he checks his closet for Sam Hidalgo-Clyne...

by Imperialbigdave Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:07 am

TJ wrote:Weir better than Jackson today IMO. laidlaw ( I didn't see the game tho) maybe the best of the lot yesterday.

Even a show and go from Weir and he nealry made it to teh line - and h made the try with some good running and vision.

Laidlaw was outstanding in the first half. controlled the game well, but most importantly, put people into space with just about every other touch of the ball. Set up Vissers try, set Mossy off on the run that he eventually ballsed up, and was pulling King and De luca forward with his passing all night.

by Glas a du Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:27 am

If Ansbro's fit at 13 Weir. If not R Lamont at 13 with Jackson at 10.

by RuggerRadge2611 Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:35 am

Ansbro at 13? No way NDL has been superb for Edinburgh all season, and to be honest in this form simply must start. I would not be surprised to see King and NDL start for Scotland in the 6n.

Although in truth I would be happy if we started anyone other than Lamont and Morrison at 12.

by Glas a du Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:39 am

Lamont is no 12, but has deputised at 13 very successfully for the Scarlets (he even passes to the wing!)

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