Tell me about Nick Faldo............

Apologies if this has been done

He was a bit before my time but I remember his name being synonymous with golf throughout my childhood. If I was to think of golfers from that era (I would watch golf on TV but never really played until a couple of years ago) I would think of Faldo, Woosie, Langher and Seve. As for the last three I admire them very much and I am still fond of Woosie and Langher on the Seniors tours.
It is funny to think that you like the personalities that your father likes. I much preferred Jimmy White to Stephen Hendry as although Hendry was from my home town my father said he was a d**k and this was also he reasoning with Faldo. Was it the arrogance? Was it rooting for the underdog? I’m not really sure but there is something about Faldo's personality I really can't stand even although he holds my utmost respect and he could fairly be described as a British Sporting Legend.

Does anybody have any opinions of Sir Nick either good or bad?
Would it be fair to say that the most similar British golfing personality around today would be Luke?
Why is it that the likes of Westie are much more popular in the golfing fraternity. On this point I would say that I am a Lee Westwood fan as he seems an all round good lad.

Does Nicky Faldo get a raw deal or was my father right?

For me Faldo is probably the outstanding UK sportsman of the past 30 years. I've also not minded the guy too much as he was the real deal and I loved it when he turned over Norman to win the Masters, for some reason could never stand Norman, think it may have been the hat.
But I can understand why he isn't everyone's cup of char.

things like "Faldo Series" and "Faldo design" just rile me

I was always a Faldo fan. He was a great British golfer and won all over Europe but decided that his swing just wasn't good enough to win the tournaments that he most desired - the Majors. Peter Allis among others in the British media criticised that decision. Faldo had, I believe, just equalled Allis' record for winning the Bristish PGA when he reconstructed his swing and took a huge step backwards before getting the rewards he worked very hard to gain. Hence his awful rendition of "I did it my way" upon winning the Open the first time. His relationship with the media didn't improve much and the media's opinion tends to colour the public's view of people. Hence his thanking the media from "the heart of his bottom" after taking another Open title.

He was selfish and single-minded but that's what got him his rewards. He sacrificed much in his personal life to get what he got, but I agree with Diggers.

I also was not a fan of Norman's. But I know why. He stated in his autobiography that a Brit would never win a major. To his credit, he has recently said he regretted that statement, but for me the damage was already done.

Tarka
My dad was the steward of the champions locker room at the 1987 Open.
Up to then he had no time for Faldo. He agreed with many of the above posters.
After Faldo had left the green with the claret jug he was alone with my dad in the locker room and had a 20 minute 'heart to heart' with him. My dad was 'old school' and could spot a chancer at 100 yards. I think Faldo knew that and that was probably the reason he opened up to him.

His lasting memory of that week was with the Amateur Champion [I think Ricky Willison] being blown away when he arrived to see his locker with his name on it was between Jack Nicklaus and Seve Ballesteros.

I always think of Faldo as I think about John McEnroe or Steve Davis. When they were at their peak they were hated by a great many. As they moved down a notch later in their careers, they became much more loved.

lorus59 wrote:I always think of Faldo as I think about John McEnroe or Steve Davis. When they were at their peak they were hated by a great many. As they moved down a notch later in their careers, they became much more loved.

You could add Chris Eubank to that list too. Their personas got in the way of their talent and people's appreciation of it.

I never ever liked Faldo, think it was due to his mechanical type swing and liked him less after he abandon his 1st wife and kids, not sure now how many times he has been married, but believe it is quite a few.

One of his prodigies was Poulter, again another self centred pratt, I think thats why the both of them got on so well, and Faldo helped him to advance his career.

Good Faldo and Bad Faldo.
First time I watched him play live was at the 1987 Ryder Cup, and, for all the plaudits accorded Seve and Jose Maria, Faldo and Woosie were just as superb.
Followed him subsequently several times, always very enjoyable - you could see the dry sense of humour, especially when he was climbing a tree at PB. Clearly didn't have his game at the 1991 Ryder Cup and was as miserable a sod as has been portrayed. By 1995 he was seemingly a lot more humble and better for it. Grinding out his points. After turning over Norman, it seemed as if he was pretty much done competitively. Another win but not much more.

But: Didn't think he did a great job as Ryder Cup Captain and, while he's good as far as it goes in his broadcasting career, he clearly doesn't know the young guys, even the Europeans, and seldom tells stories, almost as if no-one let him in on, or he just didn't care for, the Tour camaraderie.

Personally feel as if you can never take the Good Faldo away from him. Not sure I'd go as far as Diggers, but certainly one of the very Best of British over the past thirty years.

Was Poulter a Faldo prodigy? I know Dougherty was as Little Nick but never heard the Poulter link before.That would upset me.
Kwini, who would you have ahead of him. I can think of people like Redgrave and Hoy getting a mentin but sorry for me, both are in niche sports.
I'd possibly have Lennox Lewis in there with a shout perhaps.

Maybe Seb......

Digs,
Don't feel qualified to judge, certainly Redgrave and Hoy would be competitive but footballers, Rugby players, cricketers, jockeys and many boxers would have been under my radar before the internet became available. Missed so much, but would also add AP McCoy.
Certainly no other golfers or tennis players!

Yup, right at the 25 - 30 year limit would certainly rate Coe, Cram and Thompson.

Much as I love athletics and my fellow Mackem Crammy he never won Oylmpic gold unfortunately and decathalon just a bit too niche within athletics but still great sportsmen that gave me great pleasure.
McCoy fair enough, I just don't have even the slightest interest in the sport but that's just me.

A great golfer.

Not a great person.

Terrible comedian.

Never been quite sure why people want their sporting superstars to be perfect people as well.
The world is not full of Henry Coopers, but then he never won the world title.
Faldo was a winner and the most successful British golfer in the modern era.
He was an Englishman and he won...frequently. It was great to watch him at his peak because you could realistically anticipate a win, unlike British tennis.
He is in good company on the list of highly criticised British sportsmen, with Daley Thompson, Steve Davis, Barry Sheene, Ian Botham, Steve Ovett, Nigel Mansell....the list goes on. The one thing they all had in common was that they were all winners at the highest level.
Sometimes that does not endear you to others.
Steve Davis apparently because of a lack of personality, but then Barry Sheene had personality to spare. Go figure!
The fact that Faldo was never the most technically gifted golfer just makes his achievements even more remarkable in my book. If only some of the current crop had his will to win.

I think another reason Faldo wasnyt popular with some was because he wasnt part of the establishment...like say Allis who loved to have a pop at him and strikes me as exactly the sort of bloke who would like a golf club to be purely used by him and his select band of chums.
Faldo was from a normal low middle class family who I dont think even played golf, he took up the game fairly late I believe after watching the Masters on TV, mid teens maybe ? Pretty amazing what he went on to achieve really.

Well said Marcus.

Diggers wrote:I think another reason Faldo wasnyt popular with some was because he wasnt part of the establishment...like say Allis who loved to have a pop at him and strikes me as exactly the sort of bloke who would like a golf club to be purely used by him and his select band of chums.
Faldo was from a normal low middle class family who I dont think even played golf, he took up the game fairly late I believe after watching the Masters on TV, mid teens maybe ? Pretty amazing what he went on to achieve really.

I am sure he states in his autobiography that he wasn't friendly with the other players because he saw them as his rivals. He was there to beat them and win the tournament. A winners attitude perhaps but not one that will endear you to colleagues an the wider public.

Quite simply he is the reason why I got involved in watching and then playing golf. He was a perfectionist who wanted to be the best at whatever he did. He was a very talented cyclist and swimmer before he even held a golf club. He was from a lower/middle classed background and as a result things were not handed to him on a silver platter.

As others have said his will to win set him apart from other golfers of his era. There may have been more naturally talented golfers, but he worked his butt off to get the most out of his career. The measure of this is that he won more majors than Seve,Langer,Olly,Woosie or Lyle.

He was an only child and a bit of a loner so did not mix with the other players and saw them as rivals (as someone else mentioned). He put so much work in that when he did get his rewards he was emotional and often directed this against the press and former players who constantly criticised him.

The press did not like him because he was very wary of them (for good reason) and that painted a picture of him that some of the more gullible public believed.

Nobody ever mentions the £100k he gave to charity when he won the wporld matchplay one year and the "Faldo Series" that Tarka is so upset about has helped to produce talent like Rory Mcilroy.

He has a dry sense of humour that I like, but irritates others. People that do not like him are entitled to there opinion, but he was my boyhood hero and judging from the crowd that used to cheer him on at the open each year I wasn't the only one.

I will leave you with one last thing. Nobody ever picks apart someone like Woosie's personality or Langers. I don't understand why we feel the need to do it. Perhaps some of us are jealous.Not sure.

As a player, his resume speaks for itself. Total world beater and a pleasure to watch when he was in high gear.

Not at all surprised Norman made that comment. Massive yet fragile ego it seems. Not the know-it-all he thinks he is.

I met Faldo last year at a golf tournament. Every day I worked early at that tournament (3 mornings before the tournament started) he took a cart to each hole, and then got out to walk the green complex and check the pin placements. Stopped and chatted very briefly with him … no pretense, very pleasant and his commentary was spot on around the greens.

Faldofan, some players inspire affection like Seve, some like Faldo inspire respect. It's odd as Id say Seve's personality was just as flawed as Faldo's (or any of us really) but its just one of the quirks of life.
I dont really have heroes as such but Faldo was pretty close for me to being one.

I'm not sure anyone would be jealous of him. On the plus side, he was very single minded, dedicated and a very good player. On the other side he didn't care about what other people thought about him, or what they thought about his behaviour. I expect some people will say that you don't have to worry about those things, but to be a champion that people like, then I think you do have to care about those things.

I played with him in a pro-am once. He never said a word to any of the other three in his group. No hello, no nice to meet you. He never said good shot or anything like that. At the end, he just walked off. And here's the thing - my score was only two worse than his. Same tees and everything.

One of the scorers said to me afterwards that she had really looked forward to watching him play and that he'd ruined it for her. He ruined it for all of us really.

Anyway, that's how he was, and it doesn't matter at all in the scheme of things. It was a chance to impress a few people, and he missed it.

George , what do they say, you should never meet your heroes as most likely you will be disapointed.
I had breakfast with George Best once and he was on seriously miserable and dull guy. Maybe he was just hungover.

Diggers, yes, I agree with that. I wouldn't say Faldo was a hero of mine - I'm older than he is for starters. But I know the disappointment that comes when you see people close up and they aren't as you expected.

You know that story about George Best - he was with Marjorie Wallace, Miss World at the time, and her friend. He won £30K in a casino in London with them. They went back to his hotel, and the three of them got down to it on the bed strewn with all the money. They rang down to room service for more champagne, and when the waiter arrived (he was from Belfast) he looked at the scene - Miss World and her friend naked on the bed, and money all over the place - and he said 'George, George, where did it all go wrong?'

Tarka

Did you ever question if your father was a reliable judge of character?

His first wife was a journalist and when the divorce went through she manipulated the press.
Fairly nasty piece of work she was. I think that changed Faldos perspective of 'public life' and he went into a protective shell.

Diggers wrote:Maybe he was just hungover.

Wasn't he always hungover or drunk?

Red, he was meant to be dry at the time, maybe thats why he was so miserable.

Diggers wrote:Red, he was meant to be dry at the time, maybe thats why he was so miserable.

I feel we might have solved this riddle. This one is for George --->

Doon the Water wrote:His first wife was a journalist and when the divorce went through she manipulated the press.
Fairly nasty piece of work she was. I think that changed Faldos perspective of 'public life' and he went into a protective shell.

Interesting Doon. Melanie Rockall was Faldo's first wife and they were married for four and a half years. They split up because he cheated on her (later marrying Gill Bennett). Didn't she try her hand at professional golf but gave it up to develop her relationship with Faldo? Hadn't appreciated she was a journalist as well though. Can't seem to find much about her on the internet.

She runs her own marketing and PR company under the name Melanie Faldo. They were married at quite a young age after a whirlwind romance.

Diggers wrote:George , what do they say, you should never meet your heroes as most likely you will be disapointed.
I had breakfast with George Best once and he was on seriously miserable and dull guy. Maybe he was just hungover.

Maybe he had simply double booked Diggers and was expecting breakfast with Marjorie Wallace and her friend!

Maybe.What was on the drinks menu for breakfast.
Actually enjoyed both Faldo and Bests books.
Both great achievers but its always a bonus when a sportsman/hero comes across as
pleasant and personable

dynamark wrote:Maybe.What was on the drinks menu for breakfast.
Actually enjoyed both Faldo and Bests books.
Both great achievers but its always a bonus when a sportsman/hero comes across as
pleasant and personable

I didn't particularly enjoy Best's book (assuming we're just talking about Blessed). I was hoping for an insight into the 'troubled gemius' mindset and to see what was going on in his head but instead I found everytime he needed to explain a bad decision he made or action he took he just justified it by saying "oh if you're not an alcoholic you wouldn't know how our minds work".

Faldo:- Tremendous golfer, sublime putter, but like most top sports stars like Woods, Federer, etc a truly mind numbing personality which helps make them difficult to like/easy to dislike.

Super

You must be very well connected to have met, and got to know well that list of sports stars?

I dont think being a top sports star has anything at all to do with being dull. They are just normal people who happen to have to give a stack of interviews usually answering the same questions over and over again.
I reckon given those circumstances 99% of the population would come across as dull, the vast majority of people are not born entertainers, they are just normal people.
I honestly have no idea why you would think Federer was dull, the guy is known for being engagng, witty and eloquent and most sports journalists would call him a joy to interview. But if you want to call him dull then its far more likely because he is Swiss than because he is a sports star, Im sure you have been there, beautiful country wasted on a pretty dull population.

For
Great to watch in majors. Only golfer between Nicklaus and Tiger who looked to enjoy the pressure of the back 9 and to have the ability to lift his game when it mattered most.
Realised his swing was not good enough to perform under the pressure of majors and was brave enough to break it all down and trust the Leadbetter method.

Against
A bit of a loner who was selfish through his career, but never understood why he was only respected but not loved by the majority of his piers, the press and the public.
Bullied his way to becoming the Ryder Cup captain (first time and last time the Committee anounced two consecutive Captians) then totally failed as Captain and reminded us all why many of us never really liked the man.

Diggers wrote:I dont think being a top sports star has anything at all to do with being dull. They are just normal people who happen to have to give a stack of interviews usually answering the same questions over and over again.
I reckon given those circumstances 99% of the population would come across as dull, the vast majority of people are not born entertainers, they are just normal people.
I honestly have no idea why you would think Federer was dull, the guy is known for being engagng, witty and eloquent and most sports journalists would call him a joy to interview. But if you want to call him dull then its far more likely because he is Swiss than because he is a sports star, Im sure you have been there, beautiful country wasted on a pretty dull population.

Good points Diggers, I just find Federer smug and dreary. Of course he's every reason to be smug, given what he's achieved, but I'd much rather see someone like Ivanisevic interviewed, who is unpredictable and spontaneous, no matter how often he was interviewed.
Federer speaks very well, but that's it, too much of a gentleman and too nice to ever be interesting. (plus his wifes a boiler )

Nice win for Poulter yesterday eh?

What proof can people provide to support the argument Faldo was selfish?

Yes, good win for your guy in what was basically a field of Aussies plus him and Lukey. And minus the two best Aussies in the rankings....
But no he played well, I watched a bit of it and he was hitting the ball great yesterday and sank a great putt on 16 to snuff out any chance Ogilvy had of catching him.
Like Woods he has really needed the end of season pick me up and sets them both up for 2012.

I agree Digs, fairly poor field, not much better than the Australian Open where Woods performance was deemed Lazarus like.

Looked a terrific course though.

Thing is with Faldo is that he was a very single minded and driven individual. When you are like that I would imagine that it's difficult to switch off and be engaging and personable. Now that he is not chasing majors he has taken the blinkers off and has become more relaxed. He can't win because people turn round and say " He wasn't like that when he was playing" .Of course he wasn't he wanted to win. He often said he came across as being aloof, but quite often he didn't even hear people because he was wrapped up in a cocoon of concentration. He played loads of pro ams and I bet 99% of the time he was working on something or other and probably didn't want to break his concentration by talking to people. I'm not sure he could have done small talk in his prime. Not sure he was selfish.Even Peter Allis admitted he was generous with his time to childrens charities. Just seems to me that because he is a complex character and not like a Darren Clarke or a Lee Westwood his character has to be questioned regularly. We certainly do not like winners in this country do we.

I don't think it's that we don't like winners, but he is certainly a very odd character, almost as if he likes dying on his backside in media terms.

He's had 30 years of dealing with the media and still seems very awkward and says some really strange things.

Super.If he was that awkward then why does he continue to work on American TV?

Define odd?

Faldo,
What I mean is that he's not very languid, he seems awkward in front of the camera, makes strange statements, comments, seems to struggle to get out what he is saying and as a result I can only conclude he is there because of his achievements.

A bit like a top footballer getting a top management job, jus tbecause Faldo was a fantastic player, doesn't mean he'll make a great commentator, which he certainly isn't

Why does he continue to work on American TV, well I don't think we'd put up with his cringeworthy style here, and he has made no secret of his dilike of the UK media in the past.

I do agree that he comes out with a few odd comments...but I also think he is very relaxed on TV and in commentary. Far more than I would expect most ex pros to be to be honest.

Diggers wrote:Yes, good win for your guy in what was basically a field of Aussies plus him and Lukey. And minus the two best Aussies in the rankings....
But no he played well, I watched a bit of it and he was hitting the ball great yesterday and sank a great putt on 16 to snuff out any chance Ogilvy had of catching him.
Like Woods he has really needed the end of season pick me up and sets them both up for 2012.

Wel, well, well, a strokeplay win? How about that.

Diggers wrote:I do agree that he comes out with a few odd comments...but I also think he is very relaxed on TV and in commentary. Far more than I would expect most ex pros to be to be honest.

At the very least he's not a "commentary by numbers" which is exactly the reason I find certain players interviews and perceived personality to be dreary.

Faldo is just not really to my liking but I still have admiration for his golf.

I think even the best commentators come out with odd comments at times.Look at David Coleman,Peter Allis, Ted lowe... all prone to silly statements. I think it is true to say that Americia loves his style and the people like him more than they do here, but then again they like winners....