Tell me about Nick Faldo............

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Apologies if this has been done

He was a bit before my time but I remember his name being synonymous with golf throughout my childhood. If I was to think of golfers from that era (I would watch golf on TV but never really played until a couple of years ago) I would think of Faldo, Woosie, Langher and Seve. As for the last three I admire them very much and I am still fond of Woosie and Langher on the Seniors tours.
It is funny to think that you like the personalities that your father likes. I much preferred Jimmy White to Stephen Hendry as although Hendry was from my home town my father said he was a d**k and this was also he reasoning with Faldo. Was it the arrogance? Was it rooting for the underdog? I’m not really sure but there is something about Faldo's personality I really can't stand even although he holds my utmost respect and he could fairly be described as a British Sporting Legend.

Does anybody have any opinions of Sir Nick either good or bad?
Would it be fair to say that the most similar British golfing personality around today would be Luke?
Why is it that the likes of Westie are much more popular in the golfing fraternity. On this point I would say that I am a Lee Westwood fan as he seems an all round good lad.

Does Nicky Faldo get a raw deal or was my father right?

I'll say again, I don't think it's that we don't like winners, I think it's just that Faldo's personality and media persona appears to appeal to Americans more than Brits.

There are plenty of commentators here who go down well here, but who have also been winners. Michael Johnson the 200m and 400m runner being a prime example.

I think Faldo could be a terrific commentator, but he just doesn't seem to want to get to know the players.
It's as if someone told him the viewers will only be interested in the top 30 or so and concentrate on them. Was flabbergasted last year when he said he'd didn't know Brian Davis, for instance. Why not?

Not knocking him, but a little more empathy for the journeyman player and a few stories from his "day" would go a long way I reckon. Wonder if Peter Oosterhuis got booted from CBS to ensure there wouldn't be clashes? They must know each other extremely well, but they'd never talk about common experiences. Weird.

Faldo could be as good as anyone in the booth in my opinion.

Ok Super.We disagree on that point. I just feel there is more public warmth in the UK for under achievers like Frank Bruno (before he was world champion), Jimmy White and Tim Henman.

His voice is quite annoying too, to be fair, but I don't think we'd like him in the UK whether he'd won 10 majors or no tournaments at all.

Faldono1fan wrote:Ok Super.We disagree on that point. I just feel there is more public warmth in the UK for under achievers like Frank Bruno (before he was world champion), Jimmy White and Tim Henman.

Perhaps, Faldo, but I don't think the "warmth" (or lack of) for Faldo, is because we castigate/resent/jealous of him for being successful. I think we (in general) just don't like his commentary style and as I've said above, even if he was a relative failure or merely a journeyman pro I don't think we'd like him any more than we currently do (or don't).

Kwini - Faldo was on the Sky commentary team with Oosterhuis that covered the ryder cup when the captain was Sam Torrance. They quite freely spoke about Faldo's debut at Walton Heath alongside Peter. He also told quite a few stories from past ryder cup matches. I agree it is frustrating that he doesn't tell a few more of these stories. I thought he and Azinger had a great chemistry when they worked together. Perhaps it needs a partner like that to get the best out of him?

Agree Faldo, But it won't be with Azinger again!
Faldo and Alliss seemed to clash on ABC. One big ego too far!

But no-one on CBS challenges Nick, makes the commentary experience much more bland than it should be. Just the way CBS likes it I suppose. Too bad.

McLaren wrote:What proof can people provide to support the argument Faldo was selfish?

I can recall five occassions.

World Matchplay at Wentworth
Playing Nick Price I think in the semis. Close game going down 16. I think Faldo was 1 down but may be wrong. Anyway, Faldo hits his shot through the green and several seconds later the ball bounces out to the edge of the green. Everyone knew including the players that the ball was "kicked back" by Faldo fans. Price hit the green and putted up to about 2 1/2 feet. Faldo should have conceded the put as that was the right thing to do (his caddie later confirmed he told Faldo to give him the putt), but he asked Price to putt it and he missed it. Faldo won the match.
What would a class guy like Nicklaus have done?

Sandy Lyle
Very early in their careers before fame and fortune. Comp in Africa I recall. Last round and playing together and both in contention. Early in the round Lyle put a piece of tape across the top of his putter as the sun was reflecting off the putter and distracting him. Faldo said nothing to Lyle but informed an official and Lyle was rightly disqualified.
Lyle was stupid for not knowing the rules and Faldo rightly declared the offence, but surely a normal guy would have told Lyle what he felt he had to do.

St Andrews Dunhill
Back when it was a team comp. He was last man on the course for England and coming doen the last hole. Wedge in hand and the mist came down so he couldn't see the flag. Thousands of fans on the course watching and probably a few million on TV watching. He would have known the yardage and the line but he refused to play and the match was completed the next morning.
I think a lot of other golfers would have played the shot.

Ryder Cup
Played with David Gilford who was a rookie. He did not speak to David during the whole game. I recall David has a bit of a mair and Faldo gave no words of encouragement. He was so focussed on his own game he had no thoughts for his partner.
On this occassion no other European Ryder Cupper would have behaved this badly.

Ryder Cup Captaincy
Europe spent more than 20 years developing a system to win the Ryder Cup. Faldo decides to throw the manual away and do it his way. He did not just want to be a winning Ryder Cup Captain (there were several of those guys already) he wanted to be remembered for winning the Ryder Cup his way. A DJ and his son in the Team Europe carts followng the games. Didn't take the trouble to rememeber all the players names and country of origin. Tried to make a joke about the Irish eating potatoes in his opening speach and spent more time talking about his kids than the players.

Don't get me wrong I was a great fan of his golf, but he was selfish.

World Matchplay at Wentworth - That's not selfish, that's wanting to win. Price missed the putt not Faldo.

Sandy Lyle - Again that's his will to win. He acted rightfully and tipping off Lyle would mean he was allowing him to break the rules.

St Andrews Dunhill - Well within his rights to do so. Many players would do the same.

Ryder Cup Captaincy - That was his perogative, he was captain.

Scottie:-

1) It was Graham Marsh not Nick Price. Faldo did not see how the ball got onto the green. As far as he was concerned the ball was in play. In hindsight he would have probably handled things differently.

2) He wasn't sure of the rule himself which is why he checked with an official.

3) How can that be selfish? He was thinking of the team?

4)Ryder Cup - He was struggling to find his own game and Gilford even said after the match that he didn't feel as abandoned as some commentators felt he was.

5) Admittedly was not the best captain, but was let down badly by Harrington and Garcia plus the americians out putted Europe.

Giving £100k to childrens charities which was his money for winning a later world matchplay tournament is far from a selfish act. Devoting countless days to his Faldo Junior series is also not what a selfish person does. He has made some mistakes down the years, but people just love to jump on them.

scottie and any other pusher of Faldo inaccuracies

Some of those could be perceived as selfish behaviour on a golf course in order to win but none of those examples indicate he was a selfish person of the course. Seems like the sort of cliché commentators repeat and that some gullible soles believe. Until these is some solid evidence I will assume Faldo is a nice chap away from the course, may as well give people the benefit of doubt.

Mac,

I'm neither for or against him, I think he's a bit of a numpty, but I don't think he's a cheat or anything.

However, if you dismiss what everyone has said about him as media cliches, perhaps you'd be so kind to provide us with real "evidence" of what makes him such a nice chap away from the course.

Faldo will always divide opinion!

Only thing I'd say about the 1991 Ryder Cup is that he had also played poorly partnering Woosnam and they had to be separated.
But, for the singles, Faldo went out first against Raymond Floyd and beat him. Single-minded to say the least.
A bad week for Gilford whichever way you cut it; he was also the player in the envelope when Steve Pate chose not to play and there are conflicting stories about how Farmer Gilford was informed.

So happy for him that he and Seve ham-and-egged it around at Oak Hill and then he won his singles.

It is not that I am a Faldo fan or nor does it matter if he splits opinion, my point is he is portrayed as a selfish character despite no one being able to provide evidence to support this.

Kwini

I think you should write a piece on the 1991 ryder cup, there seems to have been many interesting sub plots but I know so little about it as it was before my time in terms of watching golf. There must be stuff out there on it, but I get the feeling you would do the little snippets a lot more justice.

Mac, all you need to know is there were probably a lot of "getindaholes", "youdamans", Badly dressed Americans and brassy bottle blonde wives.

Mac - Good point.

Some people, however, thrive on stereotyping people, cultures, etc.

I suppose it adds order their chaos.

Mac,
Only just picked up your post.

Not worth a full thread but abiding memories include:
~It was a great week of weather, coolish, low humidity, occasionally breezy.

~Only Seve and Olly of Team Europe played really well. Famous European camaraderie seemed to take the week off.

~Feel strongly that the press made much more of the "War On The Shore" than spectators were aware of - and I was right by the controversial Seve ball dispute with Zinger and Beck.

~Not enough is made of Langer's play in the holes preceding the missed putt on 18. He holed super putts on 16 and 17 vs Irwin. Halved his Match which most people would assume he'd lost.

~Pate and Pavin's camo gear was a bloody insult and more should have been made of the disrespect to Europe of that stupid act. Perhaps it was enough that they lost their only match together. Only Pate and Stockton know whether Pate was really injured badly enough not to play in his singles . . . I'm inclined to doubt it.

~The match-winning team of Faldo and Woosnam disintegrated before our eyes on the first day - then Broadhurst replaced Faldo and played superbly, in his singles as well.

~Having seen how active Jacklin was on the course as Captain, it seemed as if Gallacher was rather feeling his way.

~Apart from Seve and Olly, only Mark James played every match for Europe.

~After the Matches were concluded, the British supporters in our group had to buy the two American supporters dinner. While propping up the bar in Magnolia's, a British fan told us that he was in the sponsors tent afterwards where everyone was drowning their sorrows and having a sing song. Some of Team Europe came in and joined in, led by Bernhard Langer, James and Woosie.

~If anything, apart from having the agony of defeat inflicted upon us, this was an even more enjoyable RC than the two Europe wins I watched. Great location for the RC and I think it will be great also for the 2012 PGA Championship.

The End!

Put aside his indiscretions and I quite like Faldo. Great player, his instruction books are quite good and I like him as a commentator also. His sense of humour I like as its either good or so bad that I laugh anyway.

In commentary terms I compare him to John McEnroe. In terms of technique and tactics they both know their sports so well that they often point things out that the viewer hasnt realised yet or perhaps never would have on their own. They provide a bit of insight, which so many in sports commentary are incapable of.

Cheers Kwinni.

I remember being totally outraged by the cammo caps.
Typically yanks, they think the world revolves around them.

I don't think anyone's mentioned how tall Faldo was . Very tall.

He still is.

6 foot 3 inches. Faldo and Woosnam looked a bit like the odd couple in the RC, but they were quite a team in 87 and 89.

Thanks kwini, so what was the full stories of pates injury and Gilford?

Mac,
Steve Pate and one or two of the other Americans were in a car accident prior to the event when their PGA Of America limo was transporting them. Pate was the most badly hurt, can't recall the exact details, but he played a Fourball match with Pavin (wearing their camo caps, bloody idiots), got stuffed by, I think, Langer and Montgomerie, and then pleaded injury and w/d before his singles match.
My understanding is that David Gilford's name was "in the envelope" so of course that meant he wouldn't be playing following Pate's demise, but Gallacher never told him, think it's possible he found out inadvertently, or at least from someone else.

Tell you about SNF? Do we have to?

Great golfer, bit of a chump.

Re-modelled his swing and history would have us believe it made all the difference with him going on to win 6(?) Majors. Did it? He was winning anyway and had a wonderful swing. Don't suppose Leadbetter minds though...

Everything I saw/heard suggests he was focused simply on SNF. How many marriages? David Gilford? Graham Marsh? He won a lot but left quite a wake in his path. Then again, he's done quite a bit outside his pro career. Confusing sort of bloke. Really enjoyed his "heart of my bottom" speech when he did it; one of the few bits of his "humour" I actually liked.

As for his "sense of humour", can't stand it in general. Funny? Not really, no. Bit like a younger Bruce Forsyth i.e. not funny really but everyone laughs when they think they've heard a punchline. Fortunately, don't get to watch him/listen to him as don't get Sky.

Good player in his day though...

Regarding Faldo's insular personality on the course.
Do we as amateur players fully understand the mentality of a top pro player?
When their on the course they are at work, in the office, trying to focus and stay "in the bubble". They don't want outside distractions.
I once tried talking to my cousin as he came off a green at a European Tour event and he snapped my head off. It shocked me at the time but when I thought about it I realised I had been a out of order.
Back to Faldo. My favourite golfer of his time.

Nice win for Poulter yesterday eh?

You are joking, right?

GT350 wrote:Nice win for Poulter yesterday eh?

You are joking, right?

What wasn't good about it?

4putt wrote:Regarding Faldo's insular personality on the course.
Do we as amateur players fully understand the mentality of a top pro player?
When their on the course they are at work, in the office, trying to focus and stay "in the bubble". They don't want outside distractions.
I once tried talking to my cousin as he came off a green at a European Tour event and he snapped my head off. It shocked me at the time but when I thought about it I realised I had been a out of order.
Back to Faldo. My favourite golfer of his time.

If I was pro and played a round with Faldo I could understand a game face and him being fully focused on his job. What would wind me up is a rent a comment Trevino type who is going to chatter away whether you want to hear it or not and I suspect most didn't.

Agreed Diggers, I think a Feherty/Trevino clown type is just as bad as a sullen/torn faced mute like Faldo or Woods.

Nick Faldo brought an extra dimension to british/european golf. One musn't forget that in his era and, in the generic sense, the yanks were still very much top dogs so for Faldo to win six majors was a truly outstanding achievement. A completely driven individual determined to be the best golfer he could be which, unfortunately, left not only we spectators on the outside but the women in his life as well.

You always got your money's worth when watching him because you knew he had the mental fortitude to deliver the goods when it mattered. A very exciting time to watch pro golf because he certainly played his part in breaking down the then perceived invincibility of the american pros.

Having said that, when he won at Muirfield (the heart of the bottom year ), one could argue that he won courtesy of an american. John Cook missed a putt of about 3-4 feet at 17 and opened the door just enough to let Faldo back in. I have never seen anyone before or since so completely drained of emotion as Faldo was after holing the winning putt.

Faldo's mental fortitude was the difference in him winning 5 out of his 6 majors. Monty probably had as many chances to win Majors but Faldo was able to take his chances. I would say a little luck was also a factor, but perhaps the pressure he put on his opponents forced them to make the first misatake.

1987 Open
18 pars in 4th round to win by 1 shot while Azinger bogeyed the last 2 holes playing behind him.

1989 Masters
Faldo shot 65 in 4th round to get into a play-off then Scott Hock missed a putt less than 3 feet at 10th to win in the play-off.

1990 Masters
Birdies on the back 9 to catch Floyd then Floyd cracked in the play-off with a hook into the water at 11th.

1992 Open
Cook missed a short putt on 17th and Faldo wins by 1 shot.

1996 Masters
6 shots behind Norman. Faldo shot 67 in 4th round and forced Norman to shoot par to win and Norman cracked.

....and of course he completely outplayed Norman in the 3rd round of the open at St Andrews as he strolled to (at that stage) a record breaking win. I would suggest the pressure he applied to Norman that day was to much for the Aussie.

Lee Trevino's reputation isn't really justified. He was very noisy off the course, and before and after rounds. He was pretty quiet on the course though, unless he'd just holed a chip or something.

When he won the Opens at Muirfield and Birkdale, he hardly said anything to anyone but his caddie in the final rounds.

super_realist wrote:

GT350 wrote:Nice win for Poulter yesterday eh?

You are joking, right?

What wasn't good about it?

It was an end of term jolly, no more no less.
An Aussie schools tournament with a couple of professional guests invited to spice things up a little.
No, on second thoughts, you're right. It was quite a test for Poulter.

GT350 wrote:

super_realist wrote:

GT350 wrote:Nice win for Poulter yesterday eh?

You are joking, right?

What wasn't good about it?

It was an end of term jolly, no more no less.
An Aussie schools tournament with a couple of professional guests invited to spice things up a little.
No, on second thoughts, you're right. It was quite a test for Poulter.

I've conceded that field want great but it was no worse than the field at the Aussie open, and people were wetting their pants when Woods came fourth or whatever.

Great golf course by the look of it and some tough conditions on that final day. Not a great field if you take the current world number one out of the equation. You can only beat those that turn up.

Both the Poulter win and Westwood victory earned them 32 owgr points.

That's more than many European Tour events and some on the PGA Tour.

On the same note though Kwini, the Nedbank and Chevron had even more and they were far more of a midweek sweep.

Happy for Poulter though.

No argument there, s_r, those made a mockery of the sport.

Is Tiger Woods not Faldo's clone ?

A bit of a loner, very single minded, both only child. The list goes on.
World No 1 for weeks nay years.

They're both like Marmite.

You either love it or hate it.

Me personally, I can't stand Marmite.

Setup - They have some similar characteristics, but I find myself not liking Woods very much. I admire him, but I don't like him. There are differences. Woods was holding a club in his hand at the age of 2 or 3.Nick didn't start playing til he was 13/14. Woods spits and doesn't have a cheesy sense of humour. Woods upbringing would have been totally different to Faldo. The media loves Woods whereas.....

I prefer Faldo to Woods by a mile, mind you I prefer Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao and Amin to Woods

Super

To even compare Faldo to Woods is a joke one is a carthorse(Faldo and his mechanical swing) and the other is a thoroughbred ( Woods all natural ability and skill)

oldparwin wrote:Super

To even compare Faldo to Woods is a joke one is a carthorse(Faldo and his mechanical swing) and the other is a thoroughbred ( Woods all natural ability and skill)

Should that not be "WAS a thoroughbred".

& then along came IHOP.

Not sure we've seen the last of Woods the golfer, but I'm sure we've seen the last of Faldo the golfer.

Although we see Luke and Lee in their advanced years achieving top world ranking, neither (unless lightening strikes) will approach Sir Nick's Major record. Top English golfer of the past 100 years?

6 majors. Some carthorse!

Shockrock
I think Vardon shades it for me. He gave us all a decent grip.
He lost four years competition during the 1st world war.

Doon the Water wrote:...I think Vardon shades it for me. He gave us all a decent grip...

Speak for yourself; I use an interlock grip!

Small hands then NBS?