Review of the Weekend...!

Well...

A weekend where again there were definitely more away wins than any of expected.

A great weekend for the Irish and the Scots with all teams winning a good weekend for the French and English and a poor one for the Welsh and italians.


Pool 1

Munster 7% [ 29 ]
Scarlets 0% [ 3 ]

Munster Win 19 - 13

Northampton Saints 5% [ 22 ]
Castres 2% [ 8 ]

Saints win 45 - 0


Pool 2

Cardiff Blues 4% [ 15 ]
Edinburgh 4% [ 16 ]

Edinburgh win 19 - 12

London Irish 8% [ 30 ]
Racing Métro 0% [ 1 ]

Racing Win 19 - 25


Pool 3

Leinster 8% [ 32 ]
Bath 0% [ 0 ]

Leinster win 52 - 27

Glasgow Warriors 2% [ 8 ]
Montpellier 5% [ 22 ]

Glasgow win 20 - 15

Pool 4

Leicester Tigers 5% [ 20 ]
Clermont 3% [ 13 ]

Leicester 23 - 19

Ulster 7% [ 28 ]
Aironi 0% [ 3 ]

Ulster win 20 - 46

Pool 5

Ospreys 5% [ 20 ]
Saracens 2% [ 10 ]

Saracens 13 - 16

Biarritz 7% [ 28 ]
Benetton Treviso 0% [ 0 ]

Biarritz win 29 - 12

Pool 6

Toulouse 8% [ 31 ]
Harlequins 0% [ 0 ]

Quins win 24 - 31

Gloucester 7% [ 29 ]
Connacht 0% [ 1 ]

Gloucester 23 - 19

maestegmafia wrote:A great weekend for the Irish and the Scots with all teams winning

Connacht lost and Glasgow drew.

What does the percentage mean?

Leinster look favourites at the moment, but think it'll come down to who gets the home draw in the knockout rounds. I've got a suspicion a French side will win it this year after a favourable draw.

Leinster look very strong but for me the most significant results were Sarries, Tigers & Quins who all laid down markers in hard fought games.

It was a good weekend for the English clubs & very good for the Irish (as usual)

I'd say the Scots were pretty impressive too... Winning in a fight for pool two and not losing away in France is a good result.

Munster, Quins and Leinster were the teams of the weekend.

All four Welsh regions lost, despite two home matches.

The most worrying thing is the dwindling crowds. Although the derby matches over Xmas always attract good crowds, the viability of regional rugby is becoming very questionable.

The regions and the WRU need to find ways to improve the success of the regions -- the national team needs the regions, and vice-versa. Central contracts and restructuring the rugby season (which will involve the IRB and all unions) are no more than pipe dreams at the moment. Something has to change. It's inevitable that more top Wales players will move to France or England, which will decrease the strength of the Welsh regions and further limit their chances of commercial success, especailly in the HC. Something's gotta give ...

Horrible is the only summary I can come up with. Almost like somebody was monitoring my mood and finding daily new ways to depress me further. Yes I'm ranting, well that's how it feels to be supporting the regions at present.

Fair play to Sarries, Quins and Leinster, stand out sides of the weekend for me.

Knowsit mate I think yet again we are all pretty depressed. After a good start, things have not worked out well for any of them after the last two weeks.

All they can do is learn from it and get better.

The English sides have performed best in my opinion this week. 5/7.

Immense away wins for Sarries and Quins.

Leicester and Gloucester picked up tight home wins.

Saints smashed Castres.


How is it a good week for French sides? Their two flagship teams Clermont and Toulouse lost.

I really don't think that test match against Australia helped the Welsh at all. Dumb, short sighted idea. The regions were unbeaten before it. Ospreys and Scarlets now look of of the running. Doh!

Feckless Rogue wrote:I really don't think that test match against Australia helped the Welsh at all. Dumb, short sighted idea. The regions were unbeaten before it. Ospreys and Scarlets now look of of the running. Doh!

THe WRU this week made it pretty clear that the regions are sub-servant to them. Thats the way it is and the Regions will have to learn to deal with it better than they currently do.

Maesteg - yes thats true. However I can't see what benefit the Australia match was apart from a few quid in the bank.

I've no doubt if Scarlets, Blues and Ospreys were all playing in the quarter finals of the HEC, there would be more attendances and the WRU would feel the benefits in a greater way.

We have a similar setup in Ireland and despite only 1 Six Nations win in the last 5 years, the success of the provinces has kept interest in the national team very high.

Lets hope the WRU recognise that.

They fund their four Regions with a substantial amount less than the Irish do. They also encourage those Regions to produce players for the benefit of Welsh rugby, those players would benefit by playing in the later stages of the HEC and Rabbo knockout stages.

They are all linked.

I am not sure whether the current press surrounding talk of central contracts and Regional coaches asking for more money, WRU refusing to increase on the deal they struck with the regions is part of an on going battle or whether it is just the press creating discussion on the situation.

Time will tell, the WRU certainly seem to have their heads screwed on much better than they did twenty years ago.

I couldn't blame one game against Australia for Welsh regional difficulties this week.

The Heineken is always about peaking at the right time of the year and...., the Welsh threw everything at the world cup and may - (cautiously put, so as not to needlessly annoy already annoyed Welsh regional fans) - I say may be going off the boil formwise.

They were the fittest players at the world cup, according to the press and the squad spokesmen themselves. It may have been a nice time to peak for sure, and many national sides will have been envious of their Duracel battery power in New Zealand, but the fates say every peak has its trough.

Good point fly.

Just have to wait and see what happens.

Was a very poor weekend for us Welsh though not many expected Scarlets to win at Thomond so a LBP is a good result.

Very poor result for the O's and Us Dragons who I expected to win.

Absolutely fantastic result for Quins and a good draw for Galsgow to.

beshocked wrote:The English sides have performed best in my opinion this week. 5/7.

.

Ireland's 3/4 is a better % than 5/7.

Whilst the English did have some good results Sarries remain the only ones favourite to go through.

Leicester have zero bonus points, Clermont have 3 and Ulster 2 - that is likely to be the reason they fail.
Even if Leicester win in Ravenhill they are are likely to be second best to Clermont on the same points as Clermont are on top in the head to heads.
Halequins are still second in their group behind Toulouse - Toulouse must remain favourites

geoff998rugby wrote:

beshocked wrote:The English sides have performed best in my opinion this week. 5/7.

.

Ireland's 3/4 is a better % than 5/7.

Whilst the English did have some good results Sarries remain the only ones favourite to go through.

Leicester have zero bonus points, Clermont have 3 and Ulster 2 - that is likely to be the reason they fail.
Even if Leicester win in Ravenhill they are are likely to be second best to Clermont on the same points as Clermont are on top in the head to heads.
Halequins are still second in their group behind Toulouse - Toulouse must remain favourites

Yes Ireland might have a better % but it's the actual results that matter.

Ulster,Leinster and Munster all had relatively easy matches. Unsurprising that they won. Leinster and Munster winning at home against two of the weaker sides in the competition is not a shock. Ulster beating the weakest team in the competition is hardly an impressive feat.

In comparison Saracens and Quins notched up two very impressive away wins against Ospreys and Toulouse. Leicester beating Clermont is a big win too.

Gloucester and Saints did what they expected.

Hmm I'm somewhere in between....

beshocked I think you are wrong to say that the Scarlets are one of the weaker teams in the competition, certainly the Saints didn't find them so. Not a great performance by Munster but job done against a very dangerous side.

Ulster managed a crucial bonus point win away to Aironi, something the Tigers failed to do.

Bath aren't great but the manner of Leinsters win was extremely impressive and as much as secures a home QF.

Quins was the most impressive result of the weekend but I think you are underselling the significance of Irish results a tad.

Roddersm in my opinion Scarlets are one of the weaker teams in the competition though. Going by league tables,lack of impact in Europe,form etc. It's all relative. Most sides would expect to beat Scarlets at home.

Just because Leicester failed doesn't mean hammering Aironi is a huge feat. They are rock bottom of the Pro12. You can't argue Aironi are the weakest side in the HC.

Bath are one of the weakest English sides in the competition. Leinster did what was expected of them.

The Irish sides did what they had to do - no more no less.

In comparison Saracens and Quins pulled off more impressive feats.

Do you honestly think that the Irish club's results are as good as those of Saracens and Quins?

Ospreys hadn't lost at home in the HC for 17 consecutive HC matches. Toulouse very rarely lose at home. These are huge scalps.

beshocked wrote:Do you honestly think that the Irish club's results are as good as those of Saracens and Quins?

I didn't say they were but like you say all the Irish sides, Connacht apart, got the results that they needed, so we are justified in feeling positive about the weekend.

Agree Aironi, along with Connacht are perhaps the weekest team but scoring >4 tries in Italy is not easy. Not a massive result but a very good one.

I don't think the Ospreys are a particularly great side this season, weaker than Scarlets imo, so I wouldn't get too carried away with the Saracens result but the Quins result was superb, which I have acknowledged.

The reality is that after 4 rounds 3 out of 4 Irish sides are top of their pools so that is something to be pleased about imo.

Roddersm sorry but then the Pro12 table must lie. Ospreys are 2nd. Beating Munster at home with 19 players out shows how rubbish the O's are. The O's are much better than the Scarlets. Why do you and others build up the Scarlets to be some godlike side? I am not sure what they have done to win such high praise.

Don't get carried away? Ospreys hadn't lost at home in the HC in 17 matches. If it's so easy why have so many failed? Is it not a big deal?

By all means feel positive but this week belongs to the English. This is of course even without mentioning the English sides in the Amlin. Wasps beat Bayonne,Sale hammered Agen and Exeter beat Dragons away.

Ulster's pool position has been artificially inflated by the double header against Aironi. Their two toughest matches are to come.

beshocked wrote:Ulster's pool position has been artificially inflated by the double header against Aironi. Their two toughest matches are to come.

Absolutely, I am well aware of that but you can only play who's in front of you. We needed 10 points against Aironi and got them so you can't say fairer than that. Like I say the Tigers can only get 9 in their corresponding fixtures so there is some significance there.

The Rabo table does lie from time to time I'm afraid particularly as its a WC year. The Scarlets are a better team right now than the Ospreys. Of course its a good result for Saracens but one I firmly expected. I'm not building up the scarlets, I couldn't give a feck about the Welsh regions to be honest , but look at the sides on paper.

beshocked wrote: Ulster's pool position has been artificially inflated by the double header against Aironi. Their two toughest matches are to come.

The toughest 2 matches are Leicester and Clermont away - we have played one of them.

Ulster have 2 bonus points, Leicester have 0 bonus points and Clermont has 3 bonus points. Those points are a fair reflection of where each team is in the Group..

Roddersm my point is that the Irish jobs did a professional job but the real work was done for Leinster and Munster in their wins away from home. Munster and Leinster took control of their pools last week. Just need to wrap up the rest now.

Again Ulster did what they had to but it wasn't an epic result by any stretch of the imagination. The hard work begins for them now. If they can beat Leicester then they will be a lot more comfortable.

On what basis are Scarlets better than the O's. Yes I have looked at the sides on paper. The O's one is stronger in my opinion. Definitely the pack. I apologise I just can't see the hype surrounding Scarlets. Yes some of their players did well in the world cup but they have to be judged on club form too.

You expected Sarries to win but it doesn't make it easy. O's record was impressive.

This week belongs to the English. It's quite easy to say really.

But three Irish sides won too and the three Irish sides that have won are also now sitting on top of their respective pools (with difficult games still to come, we know, we know, we know...! - but if crowing is the game of the day, that stat is as good as the next one.)

Plus - Munster is the only side on 4 from 4, playing for them very ordinary second gear rugby.

Yep, good week for English sides. For now at least too, a pretty handsome week for the Irish.

Beshocked you seem to be putting words in my mouth....my point is that Connacht apart the Irish sides could not have done better this weekend than they did. Therefore it was a very good weekend for us.

We will have to agree to disagree on Ospreys v Scarletts. Personally I don't really care but I know who I'd rather play right now.

The Ulster result was not 'epic', I never suggested it was but given the context within the group and the fact that the Tigers failed to do the same then it was a very significant result.

The Saracens win was not easy, there are no easy away wins in Europe, and the quins result fantastic. The Tigers result was impressive as well but only on par with Ulsters win over Clermont in round 1 and crucially like Ulster they failed to deny Clermont the losing bonus.

Secretfly glad we agree.

Roddersm not denying it was a good weekend for the Irish sides. You did all you could bar of course Connacht.

My point is that in regards to respective results this week the English sides performed better than the Irish because there were two very notable wins for Saracens and Quins which have a huge impact on their pools. Most importantly they were away from home.

The three English clubs in the best form won.

Well, to change focus a little

Great results for the two Scots teams. Was not expecting to win any, and was just hoping for a losing bonus point. Good to see a win and a draw

Hopefully we can push on, get a bit of luck and maybe even get one team to qualify - they are playing well and could be earning the chance

Beshocked we are in agreement. I'm not comparing the relative Irish v English results, thats subjective and to me not particularly important. I'm just pointing out that the Irish results mainly were pretty significant and it was a very good weekend for our sides imo.

There were some big results for the English sides and I am not questioning that.

The Quins and Tigers results were stand out matches just for the sheer quality of the street fighting wins. The Quins game was a beauty. Nice to see the wind taken out of French sides at home. The Sarries result was also a highly clinical closing out of the game and is the kind of thing that champions do.

Don't understand the doom and gloom about the Welsh results - each of the sides were better than they showed. That said, there's been a lot of guff written on these boards about the Edinburgh result - clearly by people who didn't see the game. Blues lost because they got hammered across the board in the forwards and simply could not compete at the breakdown. Halfpenny's bonus point penalty could prove to be crucial.

For those knockers out there, what more were Ulster supposed to have done by now, exactly?

Edinburgh would obviously be the team with the best chance for Scotland. Only worry would be the high 'points against' tally. Have to get the right balance between attack and defense

George Carlin wrote:
For those knockers out there, what more were Ulster supposed to have done by now, exactly?

Well apart from getting a losing bonus point against the Tigers and denying Clermont a bonus, you mean...

I'd have taken we we are at now before the tournament though! Beshocked is right that the table is skewed a tad but 10 points v Aironi and a home win against Clermont is a very good return for us I think so far, even if it may yet prove not to be enough to qualify.