Welsh regions fold = Pro 8/10 or Irish and British League?

With all the doom a gloom articles and the regions finance, attendance and possibly folding, I was wondering, for the non Welsh fans of the Pro 12, could it survive if the Welsh regions did fold?

There are a few outcomes if the regions did fold,

Continue as Pro 8, with intention of growing to Pro 10 with two additional Scottish/Italian teams,

the WRU could reenter WRU owned teams and try and set up franchises akin to the SuperXV, however if they didn't have the funds to stop the regions folding, its unlikly they could afford this.
WRU enter 4 teams from Welsh prem each year, (however this wouldn't have the best players in Wales all playing).

IMO I don't believe the Celtic League could survive without the Welsh, as it is known they (used to at least) bring the most money to the League. Without them it would become financially unviable for the other teams left.

The Celtic League could fold, and the Scottish and Irish teams join the English League to create an Irish and British League, with Welsh Prem teams entering at different levels, Italians would have to reform the super 10.

Toughts what would happen the remaining Celtic League teams if the Welsh regions did fold?

It would become seriously predictable,as without the Welsh teams you'd expext the Irish to dominate.Treviso,Edinburgh and Glasgow have shown signs of improvement lately but I think it'll be several more years before they could keep up with the Irish teams over a full season.

Isn't this a bit far fetched? If the Welsh regions go bust then the WRU would have enough money to support them as the M stadium is almost paid off and the Welsh internationals are well attended. If the Welsh want to quit the league to play in another who would have them? The premiership clubs in England would not want more matches or more competition. In short I can't see them quitting the rabbo.

Well for an Irish point of view there are three options in this case, not sure which one I'd pick but none are great options imo.

1. Start a meaningful domestic competition in the mold of the AIL based on counties or something with the provences still entering the HC

2. Join either the French or English league (unlikely to work)

3. Either soldier on in a Pro8 or try and restructure the league e.g. Another Italian team, Cornish team maybe? or maybe a repersentive team for Geogia or something. A Euro league would be a variation of this idea too.

Not sure what I'd want though, staying in the Pro12 is in the interest of everyone.

Why the doom & gloom? Welsh sides receive about twice the funding of Scottish sides & although the gap is slowly closing they are also better supported. There might be tough times ahead but is there a serious risk of regions folding?
If it were to happen, then I expect in the short term the Scottish & Irish would look to the Italians to provide at least one more side for the League & hopefully Scotland to re-establish a 3rd pro side 1-2 years down the line, possibly in the North-East.
Alternatively, there was a dispute a few years ago (tv rights I think) & the Welsh threatened to take their ball home then. The plan at that time was to invite the Italians to join and explore the possibility of bringing some South African provinces into the league. The SAs were apparently keen at the time & it could be an attractive proposition - depends which you consider the more appealing for rugby - Newport or Newlands.....

Surely the Scottish sides would fold before the Welsh given their level of support?To be honest,I'm surprised that they are still going!

donkeyprop wrote:Why the doom & gloom? Welsh sides receive about twice the funding of Scottish sides & although the gap is slowly closing they are also better supported. There might be tough times ahead but is there a serious risk of regions folding?

The Welsh sides receive twice what the Scotts do, THe irish twice what the welsh and the French double that again. There is a lot of doom and gloom on the back of the RWC high, it is mostly media lead.

The Welsh sides are still not major players in the HEC, attendances have not increased, but it is the press constantly publishing articles where they have asked Coaches if they would like more money, and when the coaches obviously say yes, they write that the coaches want more money. They then ask the WRU, who say they already have an agreement and will stick to it. there is not really a story here, its just trying to sell copy...! Filling the inches...

Thing is that the regions have been receiving the same money for a number of years, if anything it has probably increased. They have reduced their overheads by releasing expensive contracted players. So until we actually see their current financials, I thing it would be nothing more than a presumption that they are in some kind of downward spiral.

The WRU have announced a healthy 2011, so Welsh rugby isn't broke. Its actually reasonably healthy.

Kingshu wrote:With all the doom a gloom articles and the regions finance, attendance and possibly folding, I was wondering, for the non Welsh fans of the Pro 12, could it survive if the Welsh regions did fold?

Folding?

Doom and gloom on the finance? Yes the Union is in debt but this year brought in more earnings than the IRFU. If we didn't have the Australia fixture then yeah, the finance might be a big issue.

Taffineastbourne wrote:Surely the Scottish sides would fold before the Welsh given their level of support?To be honest,I'm surprised that they are still going!

OK lets go, outside

Welsh regions get poor crowds but at least we have more people watching than playing.

This week the Welsh regions should and probably will fold. Next January, some Welsh Heineken pool wins and it's back to winning the Heineken, showing the world what Welsh running rugby is made of, winning the Pro 12, a clean sweep in the Six Nations and the World Cup in 2015.

But for now, this week - it's the collapse of Welsh regional rugby. The delightfully hot and cold Welsh.

Kingshu wrote:
IMO I don't believe the Celtic League could survive without the Welsh, as it is known they (used to at least) bring the most money to the League. Without them it would become financially unviable for the other teams left.

I find this quite hard to believe? With teams like Munster & Leinsters average attendances being triple that of the Welsh teams I would have thought that the Irish bring far more to the party. The WRU makes no money from the regions and props them up. All the WRU funding is made from the 437 internationals it tries to organise every year.

I think the better question is could it survive without the Irish?

SecretFly wrote:The delightfully hot and cold Welsh.

Andy Howell Does not speak for anyone bar himself

If we move to central contracts like everyone is suggesting then the regions would fold.

Personally I think the Welsh are going nowhere.

The only reason they would leave the Celtic League is to disband the regions. However if they did that they would be unable to support a fully professional Welsh club game. If they wanted to join with the English my guess is that they would be limited to 4 teams (as happened in the past) which is the problem they have now.

As I see it they are stuck with Celtic League and stuck with regionalism so rather than change it all after a few years it needs to be worked on. Success at all costs must be the aim. Fans find it very difficult to ignore winning teams.

maestegmafia wrote:

SecretFly wrote:The delightfully hot and cold Welsh.

Andy Howell Does not speak for anyone bar himself

I was just having some fun with generalisations there, maesteg. Nothing too serious. But in truth, I do believe a sizeable section of Welsh rugby fans would actually love if the regions DID fold. Looking from the outside in, I really have sensed over time that it is not so much a lack of funds or profile or publicity that keeps many fans away from their regions but a deep, lingering distaste of the the very concept. Welsh domestic politics at work, which I wouldn't begin to suggest I understand, but it is alien to me that there would be such open reisistence to the idea of strong Welsh sides, wherever they come from, whatever their complicated history. So the Welsh can be hot and cold, but then we all can. The problem is that some of them would dearly love to sabotage the whole idea of Welsh regionalism. Foot shooting in my humble opinion.