606v2 Greatest Test Captains Rankings

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Afternoon one and all

A little quiet this morning, so now seems like a good time to commence with our top ten (in order) rankings of who we deem to be the greatest captains Test cricket has seen. As usual, we will be keeping it to post-war players only.

There are a few things to consider here, which I expect will throw up some decent debate. For example, do you see a great captain as someone like Clive Lloyd or Ricky Ponting that captained a team jam-packed with superstars that some argue had their jobs made easy for them, or do you lean toward a Stephen Fleming type character, that finds success with more limited resources.

Looking forward to your top 10's.

Thanks

And who would you recommend?
Graeme Smith?
Ali Bacher has a couple of nods??

Bacher only captained one series, and it was a team full of stars.

Smith had to go through the transition of losing some seriously good pllayers such as Pollock, Klusener, Ntini, and yet his win record as captain are up there with our best cpatains.

Also take into consideration his achievements as a bastsman, one of the premier opening batsmen in world cricket. I think he holds the record for the most opening stands in cricket of over 300, two are with gibbs, not sure who the other one is with.

My apologies, Smith actually has 4 opening partnerships above 300, three with gibbs and the world record opening partnership with Neil McKensie.

I will consider the merits of Smith alomgside Dhoni/Strauss

Not sure of the stats but under Graeme Smith I'd have thought that SA have imploded a few times too many against arguably weaker opponents....

How does implosion from a whole team relate to Greame Smith as a captain?

Anyway, here is his series stats since he was named captain.

April/May 2003 vs Bangladesh. series win 2-0, away from home
July/August 2003 vs England, series draw 2-2, away from home
Oct 2003 vs Pakistan, series loss 0-1, away from home
December/ January 2004 vs west Indies, series win 3-0, at home
March 2004 vs New Zealand, series draw 1-1, away from home
August 2004 vs Sri Lanka, series loss 0-1, away from home
November 2004 vs India, series loss 0-1, away from home
December/January 2005 vs England, series loss 1-2, at home
March 2005 vs Zimbabwe, series win 2-0, at home
April 2005 vs West Indies, series win 2-0, away from home
December/January 2006 vs Australia, series loss 0-2, away from home
March 2006 vs Australia, series loss 0-2, at home
April 2006 vs New Zealand, series win 2-0, at home
December/January 2007 vs India series win 2-1, at home
October 2007 vs Pakistan, series win 1-0, away from home
November 2007 vs New Zealand, series win 2-0, at home
December/January 2008 vs West Indies, series win 2-1, at home
February 2008 vs Bangladesh, series win 2-0, away from home
March/April 2008 vs India, series draw 1-1, away from home
July/August 2008 vs England, series win 2-1, away from home
November 2008 vs Bangladesh, series win 2-0, at home
December 2008 vs Australia, series win 2-1, away from home
January 2009 vs Australia, series loss 1-2, at home
December/January 2010 vs England, series draw 1-1, at home
February 2010 vs India, series draw 1-1, away from home
June 2010 vs west Indies, series win 2-0, away from home
November 2010 vs Pakistan, series draw 0-0, Neutral in Dubai.
December/January 2011 vs India, series draw 1-1, at home
November 2011 vs Australia, series draw 1-1, at home


In total he has captained 29 completed test series.

He has 14 test series wins, 8 test series draws, 7 series losses.

Tests lost to "deemed weaker opponents"

2004 New Zealand in Auckland.

No implosion there, first innings 296, second innings 349. New Zealand put a huge first innings score of 595 together.

January 2007 Pakistan in Port Elizabeth

Fall of wickets 1-9 (de Villiers, 4.4 ov), 2-27 (Amla, 8.3 ov), 3-40 (Smith, 12.5 ov), 4-49 (Prince, 17.6 ov), 5-58 (Gibbs, 22.4 ov), 6-83 (Kallis, 29.2 ov), 7-89 (Pollock, 33.1 ov), 8-120 (Boucher, 38.6 ov), 9-120 (Nel, 39.1 ov), 10-124 (Harris, 39.6 ov)

Shoaib Akhtar to de Villiers, OUT, shocking shot from de Villiers. Short and wide of his off stump, he tried to pull it but was in two minds and might as well have uppercut it over the slips. Neither eventuated and he got a thin edge through to the wicketkeeper

Shoaib Akhtar to Amla, OUT, GODDIM! Short, drifting down the leg side and rising on Amla who tried to work it to leg, realised it was too short but couldn't get his gloves out of the way

Danish Kaneria to Smith, OUT, gone this time! Younis Khan did well there to keep his head at first slip after the parry from Akmal. Smith misjudges the wrong one, there's a big swish, and sends the edge to Akmal and it pops off his left glove to be snapped at first slip. A great start for Pakistan, three wickets early on, with Kaneria striking in his first over

Mohammad Sami to Prince, OUT, flashes hard at that one, and it flies straight at first slip's face who does well to stand firm and take that palm upwards. Pakistan's tails are up and South Africa are, well, struggling is an understatement

Danish Kaneria to Gibbs, OUT, gone this time! Kaneria strikes again, with the googly, Gibbs on one knee trying to smash a sweep shot and completely missing. It crashes into his thigh, low, and would have gone on to hit leg. Easy decision for the umpire and Kaneria could have had him out three times in the last three balls, so finally gets his reward

Shoaib Akhtar to Kallis, OUT, GODDIM! That was brilliant bowling! Wide of the crease, angled in, straightened off the pitch from a full length, and Kallis's defensive prod ends up in the gloves of Kamran Akmal, low to his right. That is a massive breakthrough for Pakistan, and South Africa are in deep, deep trouble

Shoaib Akhtar to Pollock, OUT, sucker punch! Pollock was braced for something more venomous than that, and instead chipped a leg-stump half-volley into the incredulous hands of Mohammad Sami at square leg! A brief but eventful innings comes to an end

Danish Kaneria to Boucher, OUT, not so watchful anymore! That's a horrid smear from Boucher - down on one knee to slap the ball through midwicket, but he manages only a toe-ended edge to Younis Khan at slip, who clings onto a blinding reflex chance. That's a massive breakthrough.

Mohammad Asif to Nel, OUT, another one! That's two in two balls, and Kaneria was the man again. Banged in from Asif, a flapped hook from Nel, and Danish stooped at deep fine leg to hold onto an excellent low chance! Brilliant stuff from Pakistan, but average batting from the Boks

Mohammad Asif to Harris, OUT, and that's the end of that. Back of a length, Harris threw the kitchen sink at it, and Hameed at cover was on hand to intercept a simple chance!

Akhtar match figures 4/36 then got injured and didn't bowl in the second innings.
Asif match figures 7/110
Kaneria match figures 7/141

December 2007 West Indies in Port Elizabeth

1-1 (Gibbs, 0.5 ov), 2-45 (Smith, 8.5 ov), 3-53 (Kallis, 10.5 ov), 4-63 (Amla, 13.1 ov), 5-96 (Prince, 25.3 ov), 6-129 (Boucher, 36.4 ov), 7-172 (de Villiers, 54.5 ov), 8-181 (Harris, 58.5 ov), 9-194 (Nel, 60.3 ov), 10-195 (Steyn, 62.1 ov)

Powell to Gibbs, OUT, caught! What a perfect delivery, Powell angles the ball into Gibbs and pitches it on a good length, Gibbs moves forward to defend but the ball seams away from the right-hander and takes a thick outside edge through to Ramdin who accepts an easy catch .

Taylor to Smith, OUT, that's plumb! Taylor bowls a full ball but it's not quite a yorker, the ball swings into Smith who tries to close the face of his bat but misses, it hits him low on the front pad and umpire Tiffin raises his finger after a long hard look, that would have hit middle stump

Taylor to Kallis, OUT, splendid catch! Kallis begins to fend at one outside off stump but decides to pull his bat out of the way at the last minute, it's a little too late for that and the ball hits the face of the bat and flies towards Bravo's right at third slip, he dives full length to his right and take the catch with both hands, outstanding effort which gives West Indies a massive wicket

Powell to Amla, OUT, he strikes first ball! Powell bowls a perfectly-pitched yorker, Amla moves forward and tries to close the face of the bat, he's early on the shot and doesn't make contact, the middle stump lies uprooted a few milliseconds later

Powell to Prince, OUT, caught! Powell pitches the ball on a good length outside off stump, Prince plays away from his body and inside the line, the ball seams away from him off the pitch and the thick outside edge is comfortably taken by Morton at second slip

Taylor to Boucher, OUT, oh well caught, Powell! Boucher didn't face a lot this morning but decides to pull a short one, that hurries onto him, without much footwork and the resultant top-edge balloons wide of Ramdin and down towards fine leg, where Powell runs in from the ropes and dives forward to hold a very good catch, giving West Indies an early breakthrough

Bravo to de Villiers, OUT, oh what a ball, he's castled him! de Villiers doesn't expect a delivery like that, as the ball pitches, straightens, and does enough to completely steamroll his off stump as he plays forward and misses all ends up

Bravo to Harris, OUT, gone on the stroke of lunch! Harris gets back to a shortish delivery, in no real position to go for this shot however, and tries to force it off the back foot but ends up spooning a catch to Taylor, diving forward at mid-off

Bravo to Nel, OUT, quick strike after lunch, as Nel shimmies across the stumps and clips a fullish ball from middle and off straight to Ganga at mid-on, who takes a simple catch

Bravo to Steyn, OUT, but not today! Steyn comes dancing down, Bravo sees him and pitches short, Steyn gets under it and gets a top-edge down to fine leg, Ramdin runs after it but its that man Powell who calls for it and takes another well-judged catch to bring out the end of South Africa's innings

Well those are the sum total of tests Sa lost to weaker opponents, I don't think you can criticise Smith for those three losses.

Biltong - that's a remarkably impressive response, even down to a graphic wicket by wicket account of collapses. I recognise that it also demonstrates that my earlier comment was based on sloppy thinking, where I muddled several different issues.

SA implosions have come mainly in limited overs rather than test matches. (As it happens I think the leadership of a team, including captain, coach and selectors should variously accept degrees of responsibility if there are frequent batting collapses...The captain and coaches are responsible for make sure the psychology of the team is robust so that players don't go AWOL if two quick wickets fall...)

At test level I think Smith's record is fair rather than outstanding considering the batting and pace bowling resources at his disposal during most of this period. Particularly if you strip out Bangladesh matches from the stats and maybe give a lower weight to results against Windies and NZ.....

I think also I gave an unduly high (negative) weighting to the drawn series in England early in his reign when SA were so overwhelmingly dominant at the start of the series but allowed England right back in to draw the series.... He certainly has a few mega achievements including beating Aussies away. Along with a few disappointments.....

Fists - I don't think this 'Top Ten' has been finalised, has it? You're probably still working your way through Biltong's stats!

guildfordbat wrote:Fists - I don't think this 'Top Ten' has been finalised, has it? You're probably still working your way through Biltong's stats!

you obviously mean, impressive stats.

Obviously, Biltong. Obviously.

i think Michael Clarke will end up being a GREAT captain.....to be honest he has all the right attributes, and the players respect him and want to play for him.

And he also do not have Warne, gillespie, McGrath, Hayden, Gilchrist etc.

So he has to be a thinking captain and create opportunities in the field.

which i think he is, he has been impressive, albeit its still early days.

And his batting has shown to be as strong if not stronger since he has to ead from the front (or is it the middle)?

haha, either way he is showing all the right signs, and thats can only be good for aussie cricket.

A bit ridiculous to describe him as an all time great yet but it seems a good time to bring up what a great job Misbah has done with this Pakistan rabble ove rthe last 18 months.
Given everything theyve bene through, and the number of senior players who have been lost or shelved, the amount of psolitics required to pick a Paakistan side, the lure of T20 riches, the loss of true home series and the diffulties of life in Pakistan full stop hes produced a genuinly good team. who seem genuinly interested in winninmg test matches.
As a guy who only got the job becvause they had literaly ran out of other people who could be the captain hes doen a stirling job of getting together a group of players, some of whome are very late to international cricket and others who came with a deal of baggage and some from nowhere at all, who look like a genuine test team.
Obviously its early days yet and a coupel of good series against weak opposition foollowed by a good day and half against England doesnt prove that much but given how low Pakistan had sunk and just how much turmoil theres been he deserves a lot of credit. Its generally reckoned to be his personality and his approach thas added soliditly to the previously volatile batting and made them look like test players rather than limited overs players forced out of their comfort zone.
Hes avoided any seruious controversy on or off teh pitch too, which is quite uinique for recent Pakistan capatins. For that alone he deserves mention., Hes gone a long way to restoring Paksitan as a credible cricket nation, which is good for everyone.

Hopefuly his players will continue to back him up by playing with spirit and honour ( but lose to England all the same )

This has to be a bit subjective , unless you're going to just look at their records ...

Which seems pointless as a computer could do that , and anyway it is hardly fair considering the very different resources held by , say , Waugh and Fleming.

Just on those in my time: (and with the order fairly flexible , at least in my mind)

Brearley
Benaud
M Taylor
I Chappell
Worrell
Imran
Bacher
Illingworth
Fleming
Ganguly

I confess to a bit of an Anglo-Australian bias there , probably because I was more familiar with them.

Alfie, you missed the only captain/batsman in the history of the game who has 4 triple century opening pertnerships in tests.

Smith? An excellent opening batsman biltong no dispute , does that make him a great captain?

In truth he would be a fair alternative choice , though more as a "follow me chaps" type than a super tactician , in my opinion. And as a lead by example type he is certainly near the top.

I think you have gone and hurt his feelings now.

On a serious note, yes I do agree he likes to lead from the front. But as a tactician in test matches I rank him up with some of the best. The fact is a captaincy style often evolves from necesity, when he became captain he was very young and with so many senior players in the side, the only way he was going to get and earn reaspect was by scoring runs.

I think he is a born leader, but his "follow my lead" stlye didn't necessarily come naturally, but rather from having to.

Hmm. Not so sure about the tactical skills.

Perhaps unfairly , I think of a few times where he seemed to get it wrong - some declarations delayed too long , perhaps ...
Most recently , I didn't think he attacked enough towards the end in that second Test against Australia - I really thought that was SA's for the taking, and I felt he ran for cover a bit too early , where more faith in his bowlers might have got a result.

But of course the alternative course never gets tested , so we can never know for sure. And a watcher's opinion can never cost his team a Test match

You've nearly talked me into tossing him in at 10 ...

Well mate, sadly if after that you still rate Ganguly as a greater captain than smith who has been captain for virtually his whole career, and hardly ever sliding much in his performance a sa batsman, then I don't think you want to be convinced.

I am going to run along now, to cry in my little corner.




.........





Oh wait, have you heard about Hansie Cronje?

Alas, I suppose his indiscretions stands in his way.

Cronje was a very fine captain, better than Smith IMO (and I know quite a few players rated Cronje as the best captain they'd played under). I think the problem with Smith's captaincy is he didn't really "leave his mark" on the team. Let me try to explain that. Guys like Ganguly, Hussain, Border made their teams hard to beat, got them playing aggressively and competitively. Guys like Brearley and Benaud were brilliant tacticians. Then you have the captains who took their team to the top (Waugh, Strauss, etc.). Smith doesn't really have that sort of defining characteristic if you want.

no mate, I cannot agree with that. but then that's why we are here isn't it.

I also admired Cronje's captaincy skills ... but anyway my quota system only allows for one South African in this list

So no room for Strauss or Tony Greig either...

Forgot about these. The votes will be tallied some point this week.

Hi Alfie - we're not too far apart on this. My top three were 1. Benaud, 2. Brearley, 3. Worrell.

However, the one omission that lets you down is Clive Lloyd - the number 4.captain in my list. To be fair, this is probably my fault in part. Having taken in earlier comments from me, you'll probably counter that Lloyd had only to turn up as he had a team of ten greats and one immensely valuable player.

That has more than an element of truth but doesn't cover everything.

It needs to be recognised that great players too often have egos to match. Furthermore, these players came from disparate West Indian islands with long standing political and cultural differences. Lloyd ensured each player was treated with respect but never allowed to get above himself and brought harmony to a diverse bunch of individuals from different backgrounds which resulted in them dominating Test cricket for a decade and a half and probably being the best team of all time.

Yes I'm probably unfair to Lloyd here - held his failure at Lancashire against him maybe. As you say he commanded perhaps the best team ever.

But that is it in a way - my list is the captains I thought had the knack of getting results they had no right to on paper , if you know what I mean - the
ingenuity (or perhaps luck!) to turn matches around , and win with apparently inferior forces at their command , or from impossible positions...basically the ones I felt were the best tactically. Lloyd didn't really seem to bother much with tactics - he didn't need to; just wind up the Holding/Marshall etc and let 'em blast the opposition out.

And you'll see I don't have Waugh or Ponting in there either. Personal bias in elevating one aspect of captaincy over other facets maybe , but I guess that is what this exercise is about really...

Lloyd , Waugh, Smith (yes Biltong!) won't offend me if they end up in there when Fists tallies the numbers.

Fists of Fury wrote:Must say I am very surprised that a fair few are totally omitting Ponting, I think he will be inside my top 5, for sure, much for the reasons stated by MIke.

How can anyone have Ponting in the top5, overrated captain that got showed up when the greats retired...Ponting was never a great captain.

Even when Australia was dominating his captaincy was always questioned...Steve Waugh is the greatest by the way...What a captain!!!

Mark Taylor was better than Steve Waugh. With the team Waugh and Punter had most could have captained that side.

cricketfan12 wrote:Mark Taylor was better than Steve Waugh. With the team Waugh and Punter had most could have captained that side.