England vs Pakistan

so guys, with a huge series coming up against pakistan, what do we think? In terms of the side, conditions, anything to do with this huge tour

IMO this should be the side

1.Strauss
2.Cook
3.Trott
4.KP
5.Bell
6.Prior
7.Bresnan
8.Swann
9.Broad
10.Anderson
11.Monty

however i think they will go with this side

1.Strauss
2.Cook
3.Trott
4.KP
5.Bell
6.Morgan
7.Prior
8.Bresnan
9.Swann
10.Broad
11.Anderson

The pitches that we have seen pak play sri lanka, on and previous tracks there, suggest the ball dosent spin much, and is just a batting paradie. Therefore do we really need 6 batsman plus prior, as prior is easily good enough to bat 6, and we have a strong line up all the way down. Jimmy at no 11 is no mug with the bat.

Ajmal has been bowling well, and we haven't always been the best at playing spin. I'd go with the usual side i.e. your second one for the first Test and see how we go. I can't see us going with three frontline bowlers. However, two seamers and two spinners wouldn't be ideal, either. This is where our lack of an all-rounder or a batsman that bowls quite well hinders us and can leave us a little unbalanced in subcontinental conditions.

I expect England to crush Pakistan in the UAE no matter which England bowlers play (batsman are a given).

Pakistan have done well since the infamous tour of England last year but look at their opposition, Bangladesh, SL, Zimbabwe, WI(drawn), NZ and to me the only really noteworthy series being the drawn series against SA in the UAE.

One question , cf90 : If you do not expect the pitches to offer much to the spinners , why on earth would you want to pick Monty? It is not as if he would add much to the batting or fielding...
Surely if we are to expect a totally flat batsman's paradise the better move would be to play an extra seam bowler (Tremlett or Finn) to apply relentless pressure after England have (hopefully) notched a big score?

Personally I agree with Fists that the "steady as she goes" option , ie your Team 2 , will likely be picked, and I don't have any problem with that. KP and Trott may have to exercise their bowling arms a little if an innings is prolonged , but I do expect England to win the series.

alfie, it was just in case suddenly a raging turner is prepared, and you cant just go over there with plan A, you need to be prepared for all scenario's that they might encounter over there.

I will pick this side

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2011/engine/match/474472.html

The perfect sledge from close in fielders to the Pakistani batsman:

Butt, Amir and Asif ie How's your friend and his porridge

England won''t go in with five bowlers, their strength is their bowling attack, and they've become very good at bowling sides out, even on flat pitches. Plus, Morgan is England's best player of spin and England will need that against Ajmal. IF (and this is a very big if) England fall behind in the series and thus need to force a result I can see them possibly going in with five bowlers, but no way will they do so in the first test.

skyeman makes a good point, in that for all of Pakistan's recent form, they haven't faced a bowling attack of England's quality in that time.

cricketfan90 wrote:alfie, it was just in case suddenly a raging turner is prepared, and you cant just go over there with plan A, you need to be prepared for all scenario's that they might encounter over there.

Sure , mate , that is a fair enough plan B - if it appears the track is going to spin like a top - I have no problem with Monty in the squad.

Just don't think he's a first choice , unless your "raging turner" eventuates.

You know, I'm not so confident of an England win. In fact, I'm backing a series draw. I think it may be tougher than we believe.

Should England win this series I think it really shows how good this side is, because playing in those conditions with a team that isn't massively suited to them, and winning, would be a huge achievement in my book.

I think we will win the Tests but I expect us to get hammered in ODIs.

I fully expect England to win. Bowlers win matches, and right now England have the best bowling attack in the world (or at least equal best with SA). Our batsmen are all used to scoring big centuries, and I can see us racking up huge totals, putting the Pakistani batsmen under pressure, and them crumbling.

I guess it all depends on how quickly we adapt to the conditions, and of course how we play Ajmal.

alfie i dont think monty will be first choice either mate


skyeman sadly the players have been told no sledging about match fixing.

cricketfan90 wrote:
skyeman sadly the players have been told no sledging about match fixing.

[quote]


Awwww. There could have been some corkers. I bet that Swann sneaks the odd one in though

Oh just noticed I've gone past my 8,000th 606v2 Test run...

Yeah huge shame, we could have had some belters, though it sucks since they've turned stump mic off these days, I used to love that!

well done fists.


its too controversial to be sledging about that, its fine to sledge about things on the pitch, but it would be taking things too far to be sledging about that.

Monty really has to play, surely two spinners is the way forward against Pakistan?

Gregers wrote:Monty really has to play, surely two spinners is the way forward against Pakistan?

Maybe we should play Flopara ahead of KP as well Gregers?

Gregers wrote:Monty really has to play, surely two spinners is the way forward against Pakistan?

Nah mate , don't need him ...

We can always throw the ball to KP

Pakistan are soo tough to beat in the UAE. In Ajmal they have a mystery spinner. Rehman is improving all the time. Gul and Junaid are masters of reverse swing.

In sub-continental conditionals, their attack is better than England's, when considering that can also have Hafeez bowl more that useless off breaks.

I would stick with the normal side (i.e Strauss, Cook, Trott, Pietersen, Bell, Morgan, Prior, Bresnan, Broad, Swann, Anderson). Our seamers are our big strength and the Pakistani batsman have struggled against them in the past. Therefore, I don't believe that putting an extra spinner in will help us.

The series will definitely be very tough but I just think England are in such a good position at the moment - my prediction would be 1 or 2-0 to us but I wouldn't be surprised if Saeed Ajmal causes some of the batsman problems.

I think we will see a much grittier Pakistani batting line-up than in 2010 but it is still very much their weakness. In Taufeeq Umar, Mohammad Hafeez, Azhar Ali, Asad Shafiq and Adnan Akmal they have 5 batsman which England will look to put under pressure with a far stronger seam attack than Pakistan have faced of recent.

Fists of Fury wrote:Oh just noticed I've gone past my 8,000th 606v2 Test run...

That should be enough to gain entry to the 606v2 Hall of Fame alongside CF and other celebs

Evening all.

I really think the only fear is a raging turner and a collapse against Ajmal, who is IMO Pakistan's only trump card. England are very much untested against quality spin (mainly because on the whole, since Warne and Murali there just haven't been any top quality spin bowlers around), and Trott for example could stuggle I feel. On the other hand, Cook will guts it out, Pietersen and Morgan can attack, and Bell plays spin pretty well these days. Of course, apart from Younus and to a lesser extent Misbah, Pakistan don't play spin all that well either, and Swann is at least the equal of Ajmal, so preparing raging turners could well backfire.

On the whole though, I remain convinced it's Pakistan's only chance of winning the series. Pakistan's batting is decent, but shouldn't (unless the pitch is absolutely dead and burried) score more than 400 against this England attack. Whereas England have shown recently they are unafraid of racking up the 550+ scores which will put pressure on any team.

Verdict: England's superior attack will give them at least one opening to win a test and hence the series. I'm not sure Pakistan's attack will, unless Ajmal comes to the party in a serious way.

Pakistans confidence will be up after recent results, but they have only managed to beat the weaker teams in Test cricket. I feel the same way as Mike that if our strong bowling attack can get into the Pakistani batsman early, the remaining innings will see the Pakistan of old.

England have had a good rest and will be itching to get stuck into Pakistan.
I can only foresee a comfortable victory for England.

Morgan is an excellent player of spin, so I think this could be his chance to prove himself up against Ajmal. He could prove to be very important.
I cant see them going with the two spinner option.
Monty has been included as a wicket taking attacking spinner, like Swann, I suspect a reserve for him. If England had been serious about the two spinner option they more likely wouldve gone with Fatel or one of the young spinner batsmen, to avoid weakening the batting too much. It would be a brave, if exciteing, lineup to go with Panessar but it would be very much against type for England and require ditching a batsman, all of whome deserve a place in this side.
Bopara? Well he could be a wildcard to replace Morgan or come into teh side should anyone be injured. The advantage being he offers better support bowling than Trott or KP. Beyond that theres not much of a case for him unless he does something dazzleing in a warm up ( do they have warm ups? I assume they do?)

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Oh just noticed I've gone past my 8,000th 606v2 Test run...

That should be enough to gain entry to the 606v2 Hall of Fame alongside CF and other celebs

CF and FOF in v2 hall of fame :P who's next?

Yeah but how many of them were just abuseing Greggers for his views on KP FoF?

4,000 and counting, PSW.

I believe England have two or three 3 day warmups arranged, so they're clearly planning this tour well, and it is good to see. Nothing worse than seeing an undercooked side in alien conditions.

Demon Racer wrote:Pakistan are soo tough to beat in the UAE. In Ajmal they have a mystery spinner. Rehman is improving all the time. Gul and Junaid are masters of reverse swing.

In sub-continental conditionals, their attack is better than England's, when considering that can also have Hafeez bowl more that useless off breaks.

Who cares for your opinion?Stick to your own team Sonic

Demon, no sorry but their attack is not better than England's, regardless of the conditions. Ajmal is very good, so is Graeme Swann. As for pace bowlers, Jimmy A alone is better than theirs combined.

Fists of Fury wrote:4,000 and counting, PSW.

I believe England have two or three 3 day warmups arranged, so they're clearly planning this tour well, and it is good to see. Nothing worse than seeing an undercooked side in alien conditions.

cough India cough

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Yeah but how many of them were just abuseing Greggers for his views on KP FoF?

, me and fists are friends really!

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:

Demon Racer wrote:Pakistan are soo tough to beat in the UAE. In Ajmal they have a mystery spinner. Rehman is improving all the time. Gul and Junaid are masters of reverse swing.

In sub-continental conditionals, their attack is better than England's, when considering that can also have Hafeez bowl more that useless off breaks.

Who cares for your opinion?Stick to your own team Sonic

So a keyboard warrior like you knows what conditions are like in UAE/Dubai? Do me a favour. I was out there when South Africa played Pakistan, and Pakistan more than held their own.

Fists of Fury wrote:Demon, no sorry but their attack is not better than England's, regardless of the conditions. Ajmal is very good, so is Graeme Swann. As for pace bowlers, Jimmy A alone is better than theirs combined.

Anderson might be better than Gul, Junaid, Wahab is English conditions, but in sub continental conditions, they are all more threatening. Being employed in the Gulf States, I know what I'm talking about.

I think Anderson will prove to be more successful out there than those you mention, Demon, but you are of course entitled to your opinion, and I look forward to finding out which of us was right

Fists of Fury wrote:I think Anderson will prove to be more successful out there than those you mention, Demon, but you are of course entitled to your opinion, and I look forward to finding out which of us was right

I don't get any pleasure from being correct, like others on here, but I was pretty gutted that Steyn was nullified on their doctored pitches though! As long as Anderson doesn't float it up there, he should get wickets.

Anderson has improved, he now has reverse swing and a leg cutter in his arnoury. I really hope Pakistan don't prepare similar roads to the ones they prepared for the SA series. It was clear they were coming off a series in Englan where they fell several times for less than 100, and were terrified the same would happen against the strong SA bowling attack. The resulting cricket was dull.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Anderson has improved, he now has reverse swing and a leg cutter in his arnoury. I really hope Pakistan don't prepare similar roads to the ones they prepared for the SA series. It was clear they were coming off a series in Englan where they fell several times for less than 100, and were terrified the same would happen against the strong SA bowling attack. The resulting cricket was dull.

Only we where trying to win! Watching Misbah bat was painstaking!

I'd sort of switch on every other hour and would be like "oh look Misbah's score has progressed by 10 whole runs". I hope the pitches allow for more interesting cricket in this series...

I believe that a lot of people are underestimating the bowling of pakistan. Sure it is not as strong as it was with Amir and Asif but it is a lot closer to being on par with England's attack. That said I still believe that England will win or it will be a draw depending on the pitchs prepared. But either way it will be a lot closer than most people think.

AK wrote: But either way it will be a lot closer than most people think.

[quote]


Hi AK, I think that you should have added an imo to this statement, because lets look at Pakistans 2011 record: NZ-2 Tests, poor team, Pak win 1-0, WI-2 Tests, poor team, Pak drew 1-1, Zim-1 Test, poor team, Pak win 1-0, SL-3 Tests, poor team, Pak win 1-0 and BD-2 Tests, very poor team, Pak win 2-0. All of which imo shows that Pakistan have, mostly just been able to scrape over the line against poor teams. Again, imo when it comes to England, Pakistan will be facing the No1 Test team in the world who have 3 bowlers in the top ten ranking list. Even with home track advantage Pakistan will be tested more than they have been in 2011, and as you pointed out for this series there will be no Asif or Amir, as there was in 2010 against England, a series in which Pakistan were spanked.

I can not see anything but a 2-0, maybe 3-0 victory for England. IMO

I've said it before but I'm inclined to agree with AK. I think it'll be closer than many think, with either a draw or England edging it. However, wouldn't surprise me if this England side went and blew Pakistan out of the water, such has been there form of late.

So FoF, you are covering everything, apart from a Pakistan series win

Get off from your fence and give us your series score prediction.

Hi Skyeman, I can see where you are coming from but they have started to win which is the main thing albiet they have just done enough to win. This shows that they are starting to be consistent and with Misbah they have a good captain. Since he has taken over in 13 test they have won six, drawn six and lost only one as you said against poor oppostion but nonetheless it will do good for their confidance. They did get spanked but that was in England on pitches that did something, over in UAE the pitches will be a lot more batsman friendly. Also in the series they have a few new inexperienced batter such as Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq. Now that these playes have some experience under their belts they should provide a tougher test than before and in the bowling unit while unspectacular it is solid and will provide a much better test than India. IMO

AK wrote:Hi Skyeman, I can see where you are coming from but they have started to win which is the main thing albiet they have just done enough to win. This shows that they are starting to be consistent and with Misbah they have a good captain. Since he has taken over in 13 test they have won six, drawn six and lost only one as you said against poor oppostion but nonetheless it will do good for their confidance. They did get spanked but that was in England on pitches that did something, over in UAE the pitches will be a lot more batsman friendly. Also in the series they have a few new inexperienced batter such as Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq. Now that these playes have some experience under their belts they should provide a tougher test than before and in the bowling unit while unspectacular it is solid and will provide a much better test than India. IMO

Hi AK - good to see you on the cricket pages Hope your assessment is wrong - but it could easily be right.....

AK wrote:Hi Skyeman, I can see where you are coming from but they have started to win which is the main thing albiet they have just done enough to win. This shows that they are starting to be consistent and with Misbah they have a good captain. Since he has taken over in 13 test they have won six, drawn six and lost only one as you said against poor oppostion but nonetheless it will do good for their confidance. They did get spanked but that was in England on pitches that did something, over in UAE the pitches will be a lot more batsman friendly. Also in the series they have a few new inexperienced batter such as Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq. Now that these playes have some experience under their belts they should provide a tougher test than before and in the bowling unit while unspectacular it is solid and will provide a much better test than India. IMO

Good point about the Pakistan confidence of recent times, but i feel that not only are this England team refreshed but they are also extremely hungry to become a GREAT England team, and will just be too strong for Pakistan.

Corporalhumblebucket Thanks you for the welcome.

Skyeman well all thats left is to wait and see

welcome to the forum AK, hope you enjoy your time here