Premiership Round 11 Preview

Phew! What a mental two weekends of rugby it's been. Some clubs have enjoyed the last fortnight more then others but now the holiday in Europe has to be back burnered as it's back to the bread and butter, the Premiership.

The current standings are as follows:

So this weekend what with it being Xmas and all that the fixture list gets a little jumbled, we see some games on week days which isn't the norm but should make life interesting. Especially with the shortened rest before round 12 kicks in. First up in round 11 though is the only match on the actual weekend:

Saints host Bath at the Gardens and after two weekends of frankly dire results for a Bath fan they'll be hoping for an early crimbo pressie. Sadly I can't see Santa coming early and if they gat some coal it'll be a bonus. Northampton were massively flattered by the final score line against Castre, but they should easily have enough power in the pack and enough gas out wide to put a flailing Bath side down. Northampton to get the work Christmas party rolling in style with a bp win by 20.

After this we have a bit of a break but then hit the ground running with what should be a battle royal up North. Sale welcome Falcons in the local derby and watching the last two weekends it's got to be another home. I have a sneaking feeling Sale may even get the try bp in this game as they've looked pretty tasty ball in hand so far, Falcons pack are going to need a big game to try to keep them in it. Sale get 5 points and a win by 13.

Also on Monday Wasps make the trip down South to Gloucester, the home team will be only too keen to make the Shed back in to the fortress it once was and against a flaky but sometimes brilliant Wasps team they may do it. Something though is making me go with the away team on this one (the Christmas Ale possibly...) Wasps have looked briliant in broken play and on the counter something they may get a lot ithis game. Then their abrasive tackling could be too much for Glos who seem to struggle at the breakdown. Wasps for me by 3 in a patchy affair.

Tuesday see's London Irish hosting Exeter, both teams are struggling for form at the moment and will want to put in performances to restore some pride. Exeter for me will struggle here and I think after the Racing match London Irish are going to come out to prove a point. Irish by 8 but no try bp.

After that Worcester welcome Leicester at Sixways, the Tigers have slowly been looking like they're getting back to their old selves but the style of rugby their playing at the moment could well play in to Worcesters hands. Wuss would like nothing more the a dog fight in the packs and the way Leicester are fumbling around outwide so will they. For me home advantage will tell in the end though, Wuss by 6 in a battle of the kickers.

Lastly it's the biggest game of the weekend, The Big Game 4(insert fire works etc). Harlequins after a Jekil and Hyde display against Toulouse play Saracens at Twickenham and to be honest you can't bet against them. Saracens will be big, they'll be abrasive and they'll be direct but Harlequins for the first time in a 'BG' will be the winners. Quins by 12 and no bp.

Over to you.

Very bold predictions from you yappysnap.

Particular Worcester to win and Quins by 12. Also surprised you went for a Wasps win.

I think Saints will coast to victory against Bath. Probably rack up a try bonus point. Saints by 20. Try bonus.

Can't see Sale getting the try bonus at all. Should be a relatively comfortable home win though. Sales by 10 but no try bonus.

Gloucester to put their current woes behind and restore some pride with a win vs Wasps - Gloucester by 7.

London Irish have been erratic but can see home advantage being important here - London Irish by 5

Leicester to comfortably dispatch Worcester but not pick up the try bonus - Leicester by 12

Saracens haven't lost to Quins in their last 4 AP encounters. Quins have swept all other sides before them but have not yet played the English champions. It will be one of their toughest tests. Saracens have the firepower and steel to take down Quins. Saracens must go on the attack as they did in that Wembley match when they put Quins to the sword. It will be a tougher match than that day.

I expect a fairly tight battle but Saracens should prevail.

Saracens by 7.

You could be completely right Beshocked. But i am for once actually backing Quins to win (this is probably the kiss of death then).

I just think that we offer so much more then you around the whole park and after our win in Toulouse will be pumped for another match against a team that on paper has far more experienced then us and with a lot more big names then us.

We have so far this year beaten Munster at Thomond, Stade in a final, Leicester at Leicester for the first time in 13 years and now Toulouse in France. Against that lot Saracens don't seem so tough. No offense but as long as we don't give you too many penalties then I can't see how you'll stop us.


The Wembley game was in the summer when you were on a similar role of form and we were all over the place, it means about zilch.

I will comment on the tigers game once i have seen how weak a team Cockers picks.

Personally I expect easy home wins for Saints, Glaws & Sale.

I have a feeling that Exeter may sneak a win at the Madj - but LI continue to confound me - playing well when I think they will be hammered and surrending with barely a wimper when I expect them to coast to victory.

And on to Quins v Sarries. Quins resolve in Toulouse was fantastic - but they have decisions to make re the team. Robshaw needs a rest before the next set of HC games as does Evans. When do they get it? Sarries should be too strong, but if their talismans play I expect Quins to just win.

yappysnap wrote:We have so far this year beaten Munster at Thomond, Stade in a final, Leicester at Leicester for the first time in 13 years and now Toulouse in France. Against that lot Saracens don't seem so tough. No offense but as long as we don't give you too many penalties then I can't see how you'll stop us.

Well, just looking at English clubs, Sarries are stronger than that Tigers team you faced (and probably stronger than our full line-up). We have lost at WR this season to Exeter, Sarries and Quins. Sarries were far and away the best performers. They have fantastic defence - as Ospreys found out - and when they are not too scared to play can run in tries. Quins are doing well, but you are getting a tad overconfident - maybe even cocky.

Saints good. Bath not so good. Saints by 15
Sale mediocre. Falcons bad. How bad? Sale by 125
Wasps mediocre. Gloucester mediocre. Gloucester home. Gloucester by 7
London Irish mediocre. Exeter mediocre. Exeter have Budgen. Budgen cute. Budgen for PM. Exeter by 3
Worcester mediocre. Leicester better. Leicester flaky. Sixways nice. Duckworth nice. Leicester by 10

Quins good. Sarries good. Evans good. Brits good. Robshaw good. Joubert good. Sarries have no 9.
Quins by 1

Yappysnap I would hardly expect you to think that you will lose to Saracens. You have a good chance but write us off at your peril.

You offer so much more around the park? I don't agree. I fully expect Nieto to be picked and he could well give Marler a torrid time. Borthwick is going to firmly examine your lineout. Brits is likely to cause havoc as usual. Joubert should hopefully be able to outplay the lumbering Easter. Missing Burger will be a big blow and I do think Saull will find it tough vs Robshaw but Brown and Joubert will be there as back up. Hodgson vs Evans will surely be one of the key match ups.Brown vs Goode etc. It will be a very interesting match.

I don't think the result means zilch. Most of the players in the current Quins side were involved in that defeat. If it's close....

You beat an understrength Leicester so have a few sides. Every man and his dog plundered WR when they had a much weakened team. They are a different beast now. I respect Leicester as a side.

We have beaten you 4 times in a row. Show complacency and we will punish you. I know it won't be easy.

LondonTiger cheers. I don't know it's very debatable. Full strength matches between Leicester and Saracens have been generally been very close. We have had the edge head to head wise but it won't stay that way.

I am not looking too much into our match against you at WR. It was an excellent performance and result but all about context.

Will JTH & Lowe be back for Quins?

doctor_grey wrote:Saints good. Bath not so good. Saints by 15
Sale mediocre. Falcons bad. How bad? Sale by 125
Wasps mediocre. Gloucester mediocre. Gloucester home. Gloucester by 7
London Irish mediocre. Exeter mediocre. Exeter have Budgen. Budgen cute. Budgen for PM. Exeter by 3
Worcester mediocre. Leicester better. Leicester flaky. Sixways nice. Duckworth nice. Leicester by 10

Quins good. Sarries good. Evans good. Brits good. Robshaw good. Joubert good. Sarries have no 9.
Quins by 1

Nigh on impossible to fault the logic!

I'm not even going to attempt to predict the London Irish result this this week. Such is our form this season, we could easily win or lose by 20 (although we've not been beaten by more than 7 all season in fairness).

yappysnap wrote:Sale welcome Falcons in the local derby

Wow! That's a local derby?

I'm not English, but is one of those clubs not on the west coast down near Wales, and the other on the east coast up near Scotland?

Or is it because they are both north of Watford and everything up there is in "there be dragons" land?

It's only about 150 miles from Stockport to Newcastle, not much further than Thomond to RDS.

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:It's only about 150 miles from Stockport to Newcastle, not much further than Thomond to RDS.

They are both about 200k according to d'internet. or 125ish in your old 19th century miles.

No one in Ireland would consider Limerick and Dublin to be "local" though.

Beshocked, until Sarries' game against LI and the second Toulouse game I'd have expected Sarries to be favourites for the Big Game, but those games have changed my perspective a bit.

I think it's fair to say that Sarries' game this season has been based on a strong setpiece, controlling the territory and forcing kickable penalties. LI showed that your defence will allow the opposition chances to score, though taking them is another matter.

Quins' game has been based on absorbing immense amounts of pressure, playing without the ball, not giving away penalties and striking clinically when opportunities arise. Toulouse gave our tight five as hard a time as it's likely to get this season, but still couldn't live with our ability to put points on the board. Plus, we played that game without Marler, Fa'asavalu or JTH, all of whom should be back for 27th.

Sarries will be a tough test, no question. But if you think Quins will be cocky about it, I don't think you've understood Conor O'Shea's process this season. They'll be prepared and although it's largely the same bunch of players that Sarries have beaten before, it's a very different team.

As for the other matches, Saints by a lot, Sale by a few, Wasps to add to Gloucester's woes, Exeter to prove too well organised for Irish, and Leicester to do the Leicester thing and grind out a result at Sixways.

Basing your confidence on the Sarries game vs London Irish is very short sighted.

No Brits, Barritt or Hodgson took part in that match. That's 3 of the most important players missing. Also think Burger was missing too.

Quins will have to face a much more settled backline with Hodgson pulling the strings. He can mix it up. With Farrell at fly half Saracens were only going to play one way.

You should look more at Saracens double header against Ospreys.

Saracens can also soak up lots of pressure but also they generally exert a lot too which forces the penalties. We are one of the best sides at putting points on the board. Our defence absorbed so much against Ospreys and they could only score tries when we were down to 14 men or from lucky ricochets.

You cannot swipe under the carpet the beating Toulouse handed to you at home - that happened.

and what about your defeat to Wasps - you cant brush that under the carpet!

Quins have scored 14 more tries in the AP than Sarries this season and conceded the same amount and our points difference is more than double yours.

On current form Quins are the better side, but Sarries have that Championship winning mentality - and I dont think Quins are quite there yet.

Flash in the pan. Catching Saracens cold at the beginning of the season. Complacency oh and the ref missing a blatant forward pass. Not the first side to catch Saracens out in the double header and won't be the last.

Also that was at the beginning of the season. Ancient history as far as I am concerned. The loss against Toulouse was at home and only 2 weeks ago.

and that win against Toulouse was only last week

loganrun what is your point? My point is that Quins have a recent loss to their name which has been glossed over by their win against Toulouse.

Sigh do I have to explain to everyone that Saracens have beaten Quins 4 times in a row? You would think that would actually sink in.

On current form no Quins are not the better side. They are equal.

Saracens have had a tougher AP schedule so far this season. Are top of their HC pool.

?????? Quins have scored more tries and are 9 points ahead of Sarries in the AP - how is that equal???

You haven't played us yet have you? Scoring more tries than Saracens is hardly a big achievement! Numerous sides can boast they score more tries.

It's the tries in the head to head that matter and in the last 4 encounters you have struggled in that regard.

Let's just say your lack of world cup call ups and playing certain teams at the right time has significantly helped your progress.

No doubting that playing a depleted Tigers like you was very helpful. A depleted Saints side would have been nice too but alas we got the pumped up full strength side at FG.

Let's be honest Quins haven't really played any of the real tough encounters yet in the AP.

This match is the true benchmark of where Quins are.

Beshocked

Whilst I admire your confidence mate, and the fact that you back your team 100% come what may, I think you could be setting yourself up for a fall here.

Big Game 4 will be close I suspect, the two top teams in the league so far this season going up against each other. Saracens have the better pack, but Quins have the better backs for me, and I suspect that there will be less than a score in this one either way.

I will comment on the tigers game once i have seen how weak a team Cockers picks.

Ah, someone else with the same fears as me. Some of the first team badly need a rest and while some of those players we can slot down to the bench and manage without (Chuter) others will be a major loss to the starting 15 (Deacon).

I'm hoping for;

Stanko, Hawkins, Cole
Skivington, Slater
Woods, Croft, Waldrom
Youngs, Flood
Twelvetrees, Manu
Alesana, Agulla, Morris

Bench; White, Chuter, Castro, Deacon, Mafi, Harrison, Murphy, Smith.

I think in the Quins vs Sarries game it will be a close one and Quins will score more tries than Sarries but Sarries will scrape a win. That defence is just a tad too brutal for an injury ravaged Quins midfield.

Ozzy I agree. I think it will be close. It's yappysnap who doesn't think it will be.

The key match ups for me:

Robson vs Borthwick
Easter vs Joubert
Evans vs Hodgson
Brown vs Goode/Wyles

Injury-ravaged, Sam? Hardly.

The likely starting midfield is Care, Evans, JTH, Hopper. Granted I'd rather have Lowe in the side, but other than that it's a first choice lineup.

Beshocked, the loss against Toulouse would be significant if Quins hadn't been able to respond to it, but they did. And while we can all say jolly well done for beating Quins four times in a row, can I raise a sigh of my own and point out that a) that's in the past and this is a Quins who have much more killer instinct, b) you're welcome to believe that we were helped by RWC, but we played most of that period with a third choice 7, fourth choice 8, second choice 9 and wings fresh from the academy, in addition to which c) since the RWC we've continued to win against AP opposition.

Anyway, I think we can all agree that it should be a cracker.

The likely starting midfield is Care, Evans, JTH, Hopper. Granted I'd rather have Lowe in the side, but other than that it's a first choice lineup.

Didn't realise JTH was back. The match up of him vs Barritt will be a mighty fine watch. Let the battle for the England 12 shirt commence!

Ouch for all Bath fans!

beshocked wrote:Ozzy I agree. I think it will be close. It's yappysnap who doesn't think it will be.

The key match ups for me:

Robson vs Borthwick
Easter vs Joubert
Evans vs Hodgson
Brown vs Goode/Wyles

I may have been being a little over-optamistic.

It'll probably be a very close edgy game with one try in it and a winning margin of just a couple of points.

I think we can agree that prior form really means nothing for this game. Both teams are going to go all out at each other as both have a lot to lose. Should be brilliant and if JTH is back that's even better. Does mean Casson will be on the bench meaning that guys like Williams and Smith will miss out.

I don't think we'll be resting many players at all, we didn't for far easier Prem games so I don't know why the management would now. Will Saracens be resting players?

bathmad wrote:Ouch for all Bath fans!

What has happened to Bath Bathmad? It wasn't long ago that you were in the play offs for HC and Jeff, now you're third from bottom and looking at a beasting from Saints.

I actually agree with beshocked. Sarries for me are favourites. Not big favourites but favourites all the same.

Sarries vs Irish, was a game where they didn't have Burger, Brown, Hodgson and another big name who should be avaliable for the big game.

As for the other games

Saints, Sale, Leicester, Gloucester and Irish.

Irish will probably have a shocker now. Wouldn't surprise me.
Am hoping that Shingler starts at 10 and the back 3 is Ojo, Armitage and Homer.

Ozzy any idea when Losi will be back???

Saints
Sale
Tigers
Wasps
Irish
Quins/Sarries too close to call.

I wonder how many neutral fans want Sarries to win?

Saints by more than 10
Sale by more than 10
Tigers by less than 10
Cherries by less than 5
Exeter by less than 5
Sarries by less than 5*

*really looking forward to this game. Agree Sarries are slight favorites but it's so close I almost couldn't call it either way.

Bigtrevsbigmac I wouldn't see many neutrals wanting Saracens to win unless it is simply so Harlequins can be caught. Quins are in many eyes the good guys - they have more English qualified players than most, they are one of the traditional old guard,they play more free flowing rugby, they have been doing better commercially.

Saracens are portrayed as the bad guys - big,strong,tough, relentless but not popular because of their relatively high foreign count, their combatitive CEO and different marketing/ merchandise initiatives which ruffles feathers. Their way of play is brutal and effective but not seen as a good show old bean! Also as nomads and their poor attendances they are looked down upon as a young whippersnapper punching above their weight. A bit like Wasps used to be viewed.

Two different styles go head to head again.

Thanks londonirishollie for agreeing but in all honesty I don't know. The Sarries-Quins match could go either way.

Skinner being banned for them won't help will it?

No yappysnap simply players will move around on rotation. I expect Nieto to come in at tight head. Wyles to revert to full back and Short move back onto the wing. Saull to start for the injured Burger. Stringer will probably start for Spencer.

I hope it's a good contest and Saracens do try and take the fight to Quins. This is no time to hang back and wait for the errors.

Comes to something when Quins are cast as the good guys, how quickly people for get the " they should be banned from the universe" days.
They are rightly though getting credit for being the dark horses and exploding this season much like Saints did a couple of years ago and showing what people thought was a palyoff contender side is infact a genuine title contender with some exciting young talent.

BS I tend to agree with you. Saracens are the new Tigers, the boo boys of English rugby. They have upset the applecart and certain things about the club dont sit well with many. I know you yourself admitted to being one of thoise who were very worried about the diretcion the club too when the new owners firts cam ine.
I would say though that they are now showing teh fruits of that difficult period. Scarlets have gone through the same thing in reviveing theri club.
I see Saracens as a big rival to Tigers, bit no longer as the big bad wolf. Their board has invetsed well and is looking to grow a susatinable club whilst pushing money into English rugby. Their team is English dominated and should be contributing heavily to the EPS (good luck winning silverware when that happens )
Their style can be "efficent" at times, but again being a Tigers fan its hard to critisize a team for playing to win.
I certainly thing the Saffracens jibes should be laid aside, and treated more a s a nicknmae now. Noone has a problem with London Irish, Welsh or Scottish ...so why not London SAracens? Whats actually wrong with appealling to a potentialy large fanbase of real rugby fans? Its bringing in money and its not damaging the league or England.

For me whats going on at Bath is far more worrying for English rugby than Saracens.


As for the game, its the two strongest sides this year up against each other. Its daft to try and call it with confidence.

Peter seabiscuit wheeler it's just my perception about Quins. I might be wrong. The media seems to have fallen head over heels in love with Quins at least. I think they have moved so hard and fast - they have racked up so many wins that it's as if the rest of Europe has been taken off guard (not the case obviously).Someone surely has to bring Quins back to earth. I thought Toulouse of all teams would have done it but nope.


funny you mention the big bad wolf. Saracens are now loving the idea of a wolf. The players call themselves wolves - hunting like wolves so maybe that will catch on! There were people at Wembley dressing like wolves so maybe.....

Have to say I agree with most of what you say.
Leicester are still a very strong club though.

For what it's worth I think the playoffs will be Quins,Saints,Sarries and Leicester.

Bath,London Irish,Gloucester and the others simply are not consistent enough.

Yes Bath is worrying I suppose but only on the pitch.

I still think the biggest worries are London Irish,Wasps and Newcastle.

Leicester are still a very strong club though

Yes but the Tiger has taken it's sweet time waking up. Nearly half the season gone and only now are Tigers starting to find a bit of rythm. The RWC and injuries haven't helped but there's quite a lot to improve on if we want to be worrying the other big boys come the sharp end of the season. The 6N isn't going to help that either.

Londonirishollie wrote:Ozzy any idea when Losi will be back???

Las t I heard was early in the new year. Not sure if that means the Bath game or the next one after. Marland Yarde is back in training now as well, and hopefully JJ is not too far away, so we have plenty of options in the backs, we just need to get them playing like they did against Metro (away) rather than against Metro (home).

beshocked wrote:Peter seabiscuit wheeler it's just my perception about Quins. I might be wrong. The media seems to have fallen head over heels in love with Quins at least. I think they have moved so hard and fast - they have racked up so many wins that it's as if the rest of Europe has been taken off guard (not the case obviously).Someone surely has to bring Quins back to earth. I thought Toulouse of all teams would have done it but nope.


funny you mention the big bad wolf. Saracens are now loving the idea of a wolf. The players call themselves wolves - hunting like wolves so maybe that will catch on! There were people at Wembley dressing like wolves so maybe.....

Have to say I agree with most of what you say.
Leicester are still a very strong club though.

For what it's worth I think the playoffs will be Quins,Saints,Sarries and Leicester.

Bath,London Irish,Gloucester and the others simply are not consistent enough.

Yes Bath is worrying I suppose but only on the pitch.

I still think the biggest worries are London Irish,Wasps and Newcastle.

BS,

Im sure the media/internet lover affair with Quins will end as soon as they win something and their players get picked for an England side which fails to win a grand slam. Its only a matter of time before we hear about how overated Brown/Marler/Robshaw etc are.

As for teh worries thing...Wasps, Irish and Castle are just clubs who are in trouble due to lack of income. Bath are a club who are building a house of cards, the amount being spent in no way matsches their potential to generate income. That they are failing to back up the investment with results on th pitch only makes things worse.
What worrie sme is that the model there seems to be more like Premier League soccer. I fear for a club like that building in this way, and threatening to force others to be equally unsutainable. One thing Ive always been proud of Tigers for is not spending beyond their means ( oh hai salary cap) and remaining suatainble, of course easier for them becaus eof their traditional large support but the principle has still remained. Even the stadium developemnt has been financed caustiously and staggered, and based on realistic financial goals not just a gamble on the sport growing. Fromw hat I can see Saracens are trying to grow in a similar way.

beshocked wrote:Peter seabiscuit wheeler it's just my perception about Quins. I might be wrong. The media seems to have fallen head over heels in love with Quins at least. I think they have moved so hard and fast - they have racked up so many wins that it's as if the rest of Europe has been taken off guard (not the case obviously).Someone surely has to bring Quins back to earth. I thought Toulouse of all teams would have done it but nope.

Beshocked, it may or may not surprise you to hear that the perspective from Quins fans is a little different! We've had pretty much the same bunch of players for some time now, and we've known that they were capable of beating anyone on their day - but consistency was lacking and "their day" didn't come around as often as the level of talent in the squad would suggest. Last season, we lost a lot of games by 7 points or fewer.

That divided the fanbase. There was a lot of "John Kingston [head coach] must go! We need a baby-eating prop! There's not enough depth in the squad! We need more big name signings! [Strangely, these last two often from the same people, with no explanation of how to balance that with the salary cap]" against which a few of us were countering that all that was missing was the last 1-2% of clinical finishing and composure. We had hopes for some success this season, despite (actually, because of) the lack of big new signings over the closed season.

The way things have gone has been surprising in its consistency, its resilience and the way in which squad players have stepped up. But each individual result has been something we knew the team could achieve. We are enjoying the media response, after having been at best ignored and at worst vilified for such a long time, but trying not to take it too seriously.

I guess what I'm saying is that from a fan's perspective, there's been nothing fast about this; we have watched the pieces coming together since our season in ND1. The big surprise has been how completely it's come together in the last 3 months. If anything, I'd say that Sarries' turnaround two seasons ago was far faster and more surprising - to bring in that many new players in one go and start performing immediately was very impressive and a wake-up call to the rest of the AP.

But by the same token, don't expect Quins to be brought "back to earth" easily. This has been a long time coming and is no more a flash in the pan than Sarries' transformation. We've got a tough run of games coming up (Sarries, Exe away and Saints away) and it's quite possible that we'll lose all three in our traditional post-Christmas slump. But I don't expect that and I don't expect this squad to be unable to pick themselves up and get things back on track.

Poorfour every man and his dog can say "we're capable of beating anyone on our day". I think that has become the motto of those clubs who believe they are underachieving.

The lack of consistency is also down to the players. The difference between a good side and an average side is consistency. Last season Quins were average. Everyone can say they have great talent etc but till you prove it....

You are correct the ascendancy of Quins has been for sometime coming but it's still making a big impact because it's so fast.

Well it is pretty fast going from losing about half your games to winning virtually every game including beating Munster away,Toulouse away etc.

Saracens have been consistently strong for two and a half seasons now.

Will Quins be easy to take down? No but I think we can.

Anyway I predicted at the beginning of the season for Quins to be a dark horse for the title. Nice to be proved right.

beshocked wrote:Poorfour every man and his dog can say "we're capable of beating anyone on our day". I think that has become the motto of those clubs who believe they are underachieving.

The lack of consistency is also down to the players. The difference between a good side and an average side is consistency. Last season Quins were average. Everyone can say they have great talent etc but till you prove it....

You are correct the ascendancy of Quins has been for sometime coming but it's still making a big impact because it's so fast.

Well it is pretty fast going from losing about half your games to winning virtually every game including beating Munster away,Toulouse away etc.

Saracens have been consistently strong for two and a half seasons now.

Will Quins be easy to take down? No but I think we can.

Anyway I predicted at the beginning of the season for Quins to be a dark horse for the title. Nice to be proved right.

To be fair the "we can beat anything on our day" thing from last year was kind of merited based on wins against Paris and Munster, but we couldn't beat weaker teams consistently. The latter has definitely gotten better this year and we've shown we can still do the former, but the game against Sarries is anybody's. Big match-ups across the 22. I think we'll get it but I'm biased and Sarries pack scares me. Sarries have got to take their chances though because Quins have been very clinical and their last ditch defense has been really tough.

Yappy,

I hope that your iffy predictions have not put you off doing Round 12. :P

I have to say, this round of AP games has really highlighted the congested nature of the table at present. You have to feel for the Chiefs, who having picked up a losing bonus point away from home, see themselves drop from 3rd to 8th. That is from a play off spot and place in next seasons Heineken Cup to another season in the Amlin.

Any team that can get a little bit of a run of wins going over the next couple of months is going to see themselves in prime position to push for the play offs, and that includes all the way down to Bath in 10th.

Tigers started December in 11th spot. If they win these next two matches, both at home v Sale & falcons they will probably be in 3rd. As it is 3 wins in a row have seen them rise to 5th. So yes right now it is quite easy to fly up the table if you get on a winning run.

We have two winnable games up next, Bath (a) and then Sale (h), and we really need a minimum 8 points from them to consolidate where we are, but we have been so inconsistent so far this season I cannot feel any sort of certainty about getting those results.

Ozzy3213 wrote:We have two winnable games up next, Bath (a) and then Sale (h), and we really need a minimum 8 points from them to consolidate where we are, but we have been so inconsistent so far this season I cannot feel any sort of certainty about getting those results.

I think the result at Bath is about as close to a certainty at the moment as possible!

Are you playing that badly bathmad?

We haven't won back to back games since September, when we beat Saints (a) and then Falcons (h) so I am taking nothing for granted until we start displaying some consistency.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Are you playing that badly bathmad?

Yep.