THE OFFICIAL R. NADAL THREAD

[10IS]

First topic message reminder :

In an attempt to strike balance with the seemingly numerous, vocal supporters of other player(s) compared to Nadal, I am starting an Official R. Nadal thread and hope that you will give this thread a healthy longevity by posting your constructive/interesting/funny thoughts. I will post part 2 in the future if it so happens that we are able to get a large number of Nadal fans and other players' fans to participate. For now I would like you to share your thoughts on the following questions:

1. Given that Nadal had a relatively bad year with "ONLY" 1 slam victory and 2 slam finals, what should he do prepare for the next season? Can he tweak his game (forehand, backhand, volley skills etc.) to counter Djokovic?

2. I, personally , do not think that Djoko can go physical with RAFA in 2012 and is prone to injury if he tries to play physical battle with Rafa again in 2012. what do you guys think? Should Rafa just maintain this level of play and it will just be a matter of time before Djoko falls part just like Del Potro did?

3. Where do you see the Nadal Federer legacy headed? To me, the indoor victory that Fed had is of not great significance, since Nadal was not motivated enough and drained after long battles with Djoko. If Roger and Rafa were to play in ANY grand slam in 2012, Rafa would still be the favorite. Has Rafa proven to you that he is the ONLY guy who prevented Federer from falsely being labeled as the GOAT? How many more slams would Nadal need to win to win the GOAT title? on what surface?

Before you post please take time to read the following:

1. Fans of other players are of course welcome to participate.
2. Any individual with a deluded/arrogant/know-it-all mentality need not participate. If you are willing to be humble enough to admit that as a mortal being, you are respectful of others and willing to change your opinion based on factual arguments, this thread welcomes your participation.
3. Light banters are always welcome....too much seriousness invites boredom and nobody likes boredom afterall.

TAKE IT AWAY......

[amritia3ee]

What is your review of 2011? Vote in my Q&A thread here:
https://www.606v2.com/t20813-2011-year-in-review-votes-will-be-recorded

[sportslover]

Rafa has had a bad year unfortunately coming at the wrong time coupled with an unstoppable Novak making unbelievable progress from 2010.

However hopefully he will be back to his best for next year and if Novak repeats 2011 (which I find doubtful) the rest may try to get him banned from the sport or alternatively call it a day

[bogbrush]

Rafa has had a bad year unfortunately coming at the wrong time coupled with an unstoppable Novak making unbelievable progress from 2010.

However hopefully he will be back to his best for next year and if Novak repeats 2011 (which I find doubtful) the rest may try to get him banned from the sport or alternatively call it a day

Myth of the year.

Djokovic has had him covered for almost two years now, and Nadal had a great year; perhaps his best yet in standard. The issue is all about what happens to anyone at the top; the pack concentrate on working them out.
I predict 2012 will end with Djokovic and Murray as the top 2.

That's why what Sampras and Federer achieved in staying at the top for so long is so incredible.

[gallery play]

1. Given that Nadal had a relatively bad year with "ONLY" 1 slam victory and 2 slam finals, what should he do prepare for the next season? Can he tweak his game (forehand, backhand, volley skills etc.) to counter Djokovic?

Nadal already gave us a hint what to expect from him next year. He sees himself as a non-physical player so all he has to do is working on the fitness, no? I truly believe that's how team Nadal is looking at things. Personally i'm not sure if he can push his fitness to a next level. It's already proven he can only keep this fitness up for 6/7 months. So it doesn't look like there's much to gain in that department. After the Us open final Rafa kept on talking about "not getting any free points", and that's true. So the serve is going to be a major issue too for team Nadal. On clay Nadal never gets free points so i don't have a clue how he expects to beat Djoko on the red dirt.

2. I, personally , do not think that Djoko can go physical with RAFA in 2012 and is prone to injury if he tries to play physical battle with Rafa again in 2012. what do you guys think? Should Rafa just maintain this level of play and it will just be a matter of time before Djoko falls part just like Del Potro did?

If Nadal maintains this level (which isn't a certainty) he'll still be hard to beat. But he's no longer the no.1 and in the minds of other players no longer the immovable object. As for Djoko, he has more than 1 option to beat Nadal. This year he chose to play the physical battle but he has proven before he can also beat Nadal playing ultra aggressively. Nadal is in deep trouble against Djoko under all circumstances

3. Where do you see the Nadal Federer legacy headed? To me, the indoor victory that Fed had is of not great significance, since Nadal was not motivated enough and drained after long battles with Djoko. If Roger and Rafa were to play in ANY grand slam in 2012, Rafa would still be the favorite. Has Rafa proven to you that he is the ONLY guy who prevented Federer from falsely being labeled as the GOAT? How many more slams would Nadal need to win to win the GOAT title? on what surface?

If you think that indoor victory wasn't of any significance, than it's because Federer always beats Nadal indoors, and does it significantly. You're getting used to it i guess.. Nevertheless, at the slams it's a different world. 7 best of 5 matches is a awful lot for this Federer.
Statistically Nadal needs to win 7 more slams to win the GOAT title. But imo he never played at Federers level (he's the first to admit that BTW) so to me there's only one GOAT, regardless the stats

[bogbrush]

Good summary gp.

Nadal will have a good year in 2012; he has had two good ones coming into it so why not? The game moves on, of course, by which I mean players look at the ones at the top and formulate tactics to beat them.

Djokovic will have players trying to attack him which is why Federer is the only player in 2011 who actually looked like a serious threat in Slams). Nadal will have more - especially Murray - trying to play the Djokovic way. It all adds to more pressure.

[lydian]

It's an attempt to portray Djokovic 2011 as inferior to Nadal 2010. Not in my book.

I must say that it's a smart tactic as it's absolutely without proof.

This is not about tactics or attempting to belittle ND's achievements. This is a singular look at Nadal, the way he was conducting himself on court and what he was saying in the pressers. BB, he just didnt look to want to be on a tennis court for a large part of 2011. Do you not remember the way he was in the FO pressers, he was almost depressed. He's been very vocal in the way he's been feeling all year which isnt like him to be so public. The other players (I cant remember the reference ok) said that its been strange for Nadal to be muttering away so openly and negatively in the locker room. Its not just losses to Djokovic, I'm convinced its other things like the grind of the tour, UncleT bullying him, parents, etc...I even read other rumours about his personal life. Who knows. But the guy hasnt been "right in the head" for alot of the year. All that said, yes Nole has had an amazing year. The question is can he sustain it as I dont see Nadal getting any worse as such...which is a frightening thought in a way considering he had (in my opinion) a number of stressors in 2011 yet was still a clear #2 across the year.

[JuliusHMarx]

Lydian. it seems to me that tennis itself is the main stressor. All players can have outside distractions which can stress them out and affect their tennis, but if Rafa has fallen out of love with tennis a bit, I'm not sure how that comes back.
Will his heart ever really be in it, the way it used to be? It's speculation of course, but his recent interviews remind of Borg and Wilander, even McEnroe, who said he lost some interest after getting to No. 1.
My feeling is that unless Rafa gets off to a good start in 2012, then his level may fall off quite a bit as he questions whether he really wants to be doing this.
Like I say, it's just a hunch, and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Hey ho.

[lydian]

I know JHM, the game doesnt want to lose him as a whole.
I think the off-court stuff could affect his desire to be on it.
But there's no doubt the grind was getting to him.
He did say during prep for the DC that the "passion lost" comments were exaggerated so we'll just have to see.
Wilander is a different case, he had alot of off court interests and had got married. He was always likely to bow out, he didnt mix much with the other players either. McEnroe is similar in that he had alot going on off-court with various interests in his life.
But Nadal may, like Borg, get tired of the grind...who knows, it is a risk he may walk if he cant regain the desire to apply mind, body and soul in the way he has done to date.

[bogbrush]

It's one thing to be the guy pushing others around, or to be chasing Number 1, but it's another thing entirely when someone else comes along and has your game worked out. Now he has to go backwards, try to start all over when the challenge has been set out straightforwardly enough before; play on Federers backhand and I can be a success.

Now its down to him to do something different...... and I haven't a clue what he can do.

Again, credit to those who have come back to regain #1 status in the past

[lydian]

ok BB, we shall see.
I'm going to leave it at that for the moment, I dont know about you but I'm getting abit weary of discussing everything Nadal ad nauseum.

[Tenez]

It's one thing to be the guy pushing others around, or to be chasing Number 1, but it's another thing entirely when someone else comes along and has your game worked out. Now he has to go backwards, try to start all over when the challenge has been set out straightforwardly enough before; play on Federers backhand and I can be a success.

Yep! Had Nadal won Wimbledon and the USO and he'd be number 1 in the world and "on top of the world" with no motivation problems. Last year he had won 3 slams and was very motivated to play and win the WTF as well. Winning is a drug, it's hard to get enough.

[10IS]

1. Given that Nadal had a relatively bad year with "ONLY" 1 slam victory and 2 slam finals, what should he do prepare for the next season? Can he tweak his game (forehand, backhand, volley skills etc.) to counter Djokovic?

Nadal already gave us a hint what to expect from him next year. He sees himself as a non-physical player so all he has to do is working on the fitness, no? I truly believe that's how team Nadal is looking at things. Personally i'm not sure if he can push his fitness to a next level. It's already proven he can only keep this fitness up for 6/7 months. So it doesn't look like there's much to gain in that department. After the Us open final Rafa kept on talking about "not getting any free points", and that's true. So the serve is going to be a major issue too for team Nadal. On clay Nadal never gets free points so i don't have a clue how he expects to beat Djoko on the red dirt.

2. I, personally , do not think that Djoko can go physical with RAFA in 2012 and is prone to injury if he tries to play physical battle with Rafa again in 2012. what do you guys think? Should Rafa just maintain this level of play and it will just be a matter of time before Djoko falls part just like Del Potro did?

If Nadal maintains this level (which isn't a certainty) he'll still be hard to beat. But he's no longer the no.1 and in the minds of other players no longer the immovable object. As for Djoko, he has more than 1 option to beat Nadal. This year he chose to play the physical battle but he has proven before he can also beat Nadal playing ultra aggressively. Nadal is in deep trouble against Djoko under all circumstances

3. Where do you see the Nadal Federer legacy headed? To me, the indoor victory that Fed had is of not great significance, since Nadal was not motivated enough and drained after long battles with Djoko. If Roger and Rafa were to play in ANY grand slam in 2012, Rafa would still be the favorite. Has Rafa proven to you that he is the ONLY guy who prevented Federer from falsely being labeled as the GOAT? How many more slams would Nadal need to win to win the GOAT title? on what surface?

If you think that indoor victory wasn't of any significance, than it's because Federer always beats Nadal indoors, and does it significantly. You're getting used to it i guess.. Nevertheless, at the slams it's a different world. 7 best of 5 matches is a awful lot for this Federer.
Statistically Nadal needs to win 7 more slams to win the GOAT title. But imo he never played at Federers level (he's the first to admit that BTW) so to me there's only one GOAT, regardless the stats

Fair enough. As for the insignificance of Federer's hard court victories, I was talking in the context of the arguably more important grand slam and master tournament victories that Nadal has had over Federer. Still an interesting year lies ahead with a relatively less predictable grand slams.

[invisiblecoolers]

Nadal is great player but always struggled when put under pressure, he plays better as no.2 rather than no.1, he might just have a good year in 2012 and if he wins back the no.1 he will lose it again in 2013 with even more terrible performance.

[bogbrush]

Nadals main consolation is that there are no good players coming through.

The advantage this gives the top players is that they don't have anyone coming along whose game has been adapted to their style, or indeed who is bringing anything new forward. The absence of this challenge really is unusual. I can't recall any period before when there was nothing at all happening under 24.

[Simple_Analyst]

1. A rather lukewarm year fron Nadal but there are various things he can work on. One of the main problem i realised this year was the lack of depth in his forehand. He was hitting short for almost the whole year. His cross court forehand when he hits short deliberately in the past hits the service box often and swerves wide making the right handers move further left to their backhand to reach the ball and the return opens the court for him to hit a winner. This year, such balls have no angles on them and just lands midcourt begging to be hit. He might need to change any technical difficulties he has been having on his forehand.
His backhand has become a liability this year. Some say he needs to use the DTL backhand more but he is just not hitting cleanly enough. Most attempts to drive through with the backhand has resulted in the ball ending in the net. The backhand he had this year will not help him win a slam next year if he does nothing about it.

The serve is one let down for most part. He is serving well enough but he is going for placement and accuracy instead of power on hard courts. His ace count was poor, he was just not getting many free points against Djokovic. His serve was crucial for him winning the USO last year.

2. We will have to wait and see how Djokovic plays next year. They are 1 and 2 so they always have some way to go before meeting in every tournament. Seeing predictions from Federer fans is particularly funny. I'm suprised they are not shocked Nadal is playing past 25 and winning slams or even became No.1. You should have read for example after Nadal's 3rd FO victory over Federer those days. Most had his career ended by 23/24 with no chance of ever a No.1. You would have thought a lesson was learnt.

3. As for a Fedal legacy, nothing there. Federer gets the meaningless end of season indoor wins with Nadal hardly ever motivated and Nadal beats him in more important ones like slams and masters. An example we saw again at London where with DC on the horizon, Nadal wasn't bothered. See what happens should they meet at AO. You are right though, Federer is the better indoor player when they meet but Nadal is the better out door hc player when they meet and remember most of the hc tour is is outdoor hc.Nadal has never beaten Federer indoor, 0-4, but outdoors he is 4-1.
Should they meet in any slam in 2012 Nadal will be the overwhelming favourite just like Djokovic will be against Nadal.
For GOAT, 1 more of wimbledon, USO and a FO will put Nadal as the measure stick. Quality slams as opposed to quantity slams unlike some other.

[10IS]

1. A rather lukewarm year fron Nadal but there are various things he can work on. One of the main problem i realised this year was the lack of depth in his forehand. He was hitting short for almost the whole year. His cross court forehand when he hits short deliberately in the past hits the service box often and swerves wide making the right handers move further left to their backhand to reach the ball and the return opens the court for him to hit a winner. This year, such balls have no angles on them and just lands midcourt begging to be hit. He might need to change any technical difficulties he has been having on his forehand.
His backhand has become a liability this year. Some say he needs to use the DTL backhand more but he is just not hitting cleanly enough. Most attempts to drive through with the backhand has resulted in the ball ending in the net. The backhand he had this year will not help him win a slam next year if he does nothing about it.

The serve is one let down for most part. He is serving well enough but he is going for placement and accuracy instead of power on hard courts. His ace count was poor, he was just not getting many free points against Djokovic. His serve was crucial for him winning the USO last year.

2. We will have to wait and see how Djokovic plays next year. They are 1 and 2 so they always have some way to go before meeting in every tournament. Seeing predictions from Federer fans is particularly funny. I'm suprised they are not shocked Nadal is playing past 25 and winning slams or even became No.1. You should have read for example after Nadal's 3rd FO victory over Federer those days. Most had his career ended by 23/24 with no chance of ever a No.1. You would have thought a lesson was learnt.

3. As for a Fedal legacy, nothing there. Federer gets the meaningless end of season indoor wins with Nadal hardly ever motivated and Nadal beats him in more important ones like slams and masters. An example we saw again at London where with DC on the horizon, Nadal wasn't bothered. See what happens should they meet at AO. You are right though, Federer is the better indoor player when they meet but Nadal is the better out door hc player when they meet and remember most of the hc tour is is outdoor hc.Nadal has never beaten Federer indoor, 0-4, but outdoors he is 4-1.
Should they meet in any slam in 2012 Nadal will be the overwhelming favourite just like Djokovic will be against Nadal.
For GOAT, 1 more of wimbledon, USO and a FO will put Nadal as the measure stick. Quality slams as opposed to quantity slams unlike some other.

Great Analysis SA

[Guest]

I agree - a very good posting from simple analyst, and I didn't realise there was such a distinction between indoor and outdoor HC results between Nadal and Federer.

[Guest]

ps Nadal in fact had a brilliant year - one grand slam title and two grand slam finals. The only final he didn't reach he had a leg injury that affected his mobility (recall the illness he had in the tournament before the AO 2011 and his refusal to pull out ill, which he should have done). The main reason why some say he had a "lukewarm" to poor season is because they are comparing him to his success in 2010 - yet 2010 was unusually successful for him compared to previous years.

The only major difference in 2011 was the emergence of a superfit and superfocused Djokovic.

[yloponom68]

1. Given that Nadal had a relatively bad year with "ONLY" 1 slam victory and 2 slam finals, what should he do prepare for the next season? Can he tweak his game (forehand, backhand, volley skills etc.) to counter Djokovic?

His physical condition is tantamount to having a good year, regardless of opponent. So hopefully he'll have had a break from it all, taken care of any rehab and strengthening issues with this in mind. From there, with his game, a few things. (1) flatten out that backhand and forehand (2) forehand up the line has to come more into play (3) serve confidence - without that US Open 2010 serve, going to be tough with the Big Boys.

2. I, personally , do not think that Djoko can go physical with RAFA in 2012 and is prone to injury if he tries to play physical battle with Rafa again in 2012. what do you guys think? Should Rafa just maintain this level of play and it will just be a matter of time before Djoko falls part just like Del Potro did?

Yeah, I agree. Thought once he won Davis Cup, something special would start - OK, didn't quite think the year he had was coming. Also feel he cannot keep up that physical game, week in, week out - thought it would be groin that went first though. Nadal has to make sure he's doing what he does best, well; but also do a few things differently, like that forehand up the line, to at least put it into his opponent's head, that it's not always going to be the "default" play.

3. Where do you see the Nadal Federer legacy headed? To me, the indoor victory that Fed had is of not great significance, since Nadal was not motivated enough and drained after long battles with Djoko.

AGREE. Roger winning indoors isn't a big issue in the dynamics of their rivalry. Neither is gunning to win indoor titles at this stage of their careers - it's about Major singles titles. So I don't see this as affecting anything, rivalry wise.

If Roger and Rafa were to play in ANY grand slam in 2012, Rafa would still be the favorite.

DISAGREE. Much depends on the draw, and the penultimate rounds to get there. Winning a 5 setter v, say Murray or Djokovic, then playing each other, when the other has won a 3 setter, I think comes into play. Aussie 2009 aside, which was such an incredible match and effort from Nadal - it's a huge ask.

Has Rafa proven to you that he is the ONLY guy who prevented Federer from falsely being labeled as the GOAT?

16 majors with all four is the best to date - 14 without French doesn't cover it.
10 is too many behind 16 to work. I think in real terms of the game of tennis, Major titles decide it, so for now.....

How many more slams would Nadal need to win to win the GOAT title? on what surface?

Think someone has to get to within 2 - had Federer not won the French, then it was perhaps arguable with Sampras. HIs 7 Wimbledons, against 5 each Wimbledon/US Opens, may have determined with each person, which was better. I'm not touching it - despite being a huge Nadal fan, Federer has "it" at the moment.

Nadal for me, would need to win 4 more Majors without Federer adding to his count. 2 more Aussies, 2 more US Opens; 1 Aussie, 2 US and a Wimbledon. Either one works for me.

Submitted bearing the 3 parametres listed by initial thread in mind, especially..."you are respectful of others"....always happy to read anyone's thoughts.

[10IS]

I agree - a very good posting from simple analyst, and I didn't realise there was such a distinction between indoor and outdoor HC results between Nadal and Federer.

Yes Nadal's outdoor hardcourt records against fed are impressive to say the least. With all the anti-nadal propaganda that goes around V2, one would think Nadal has never beaten Fed outside clay And of course if Nadal won it, then there was something wrong with the courts i.e. hard courts were actually clay courts, the tennis balls were tampered so they would travel slower etc etc.

[10IS]

DISAGREE. Much depends on the draw, and the penultimate rounds to get there. Winning a 5 setter v, say Murray or Djokovic, then playing each other, when the other has won a 3 setter, I think comes into play. Aussie 2009 aside, which was such an incredible match and effort from Nadal - it's a huge ask.

if they were to meet in the finals, then who and how they played their respective quarter and semis would play a role. But assuming they both spend roughly equal amount of time on court before finals, Rafa would be the favorite imo.

Submitted bearing the 3 parametres listed by initial thread in mind, especially..."you are respectful of others"....always happy to read anyone's thoughts.

Thanks for your balanced analysis. Good to see Nadal fans around here...hope you will be contributing more and keeping the Nadal supporters alive and 'kicking' around here in the future.

[luciusmann]

Some of the responses are interesting on here. I understand why many people think that Djokovic won't be able to sustain his physical advantage vs Nadal but I feel this is more a faint hope than something grounded in reality.

I'm sure many Federer fans thought that Nadal's physical game would fade away and wouldn't be sustainable (mentioned by other posters), but Nadal is still around and as strong as ever. There's not a lot of evidence suggesting Djokovic will just fade away, just like their wasn't much suggesting Nadal would (they both had rather dismal records post USO). The key thing which counts in Djokovic's favour is that he doesn't need to sustain a high level of performance for every tournament (like he did for much of this year), he just needs to peak for the important ones (i.e. the slams), something Federer and Nadal have both proven adept at.

I personally am unsure if Djokovic will time it to peak in time for the Aussie Open, but it's under 3 weeks away so we'll find out soon. But should Djokovic do so, that rather proves that Djokovic is mastering the challenge of being a grand slam king (winning more than a handful).

As for the legacy of Federer/Nadal, if Djokovic again steals the limelight next year, then I don't think many in media/sport will be that interested, apart from us Fedal fans. In terms of slams, I think if Nadal can get to 14/15 like others have said(provided they don't all come from the French), then there's a good case he's the GOAT, but that's provided Federer doesn't win any more himself.

P.S. I don't see how Federer being considered GOAT is a false label, based on his record and his achievements, he is the most suitable candidate right now. The only thing Nadal did was to prevent him from owning the GOAT title at an earlier opportunity in his career.

[Guest]

I agree that I don't think Djokovic will do a "Del Potro". Djokovic has been in the top three for about five years or so, demonstrating that he has knowledge of how to play sustainable tennis.

In 2011 I was very very much surprised with Djokovics endurance in the face of examples of appearing to be dead on his feet in one match (Rome semifinal against Murray) and then winning convincingly the next day (Rome final against Nadal). He also appeared to be close to breaking down against Nadal in the US Open - but still managed to pull through in the last set played (the fourth set). [Note too that Nadal made it to the final of the US Open again, dropping only one set in the process].

I think with Djokovic he needs to be careful of his back. I would have thought ankles would also be an issue, but he doesn't seem to have ankle issues - I still don't understand how his ankles are able to take all that sliding he does on the hard courts. He must be double jointed / extremely flexible.

Djokovic in 2011 reminded me a little of Nadal in 2008 and 2010 - in terms of resourcefulness of endurance. Nadal's past issues have been with his knees, which some said would end his career aged 23/24 - but he is now managing those issues (with the aid of Platelet rich therapy as well as presumably some tweaks to his game). He also appears to have had some issues with his feet in the past (but he is managing those issues too - lots of tape before going onto the court) . We know that Nadal comes from very good "athletic stock" - his uncle wasn't called "The Beast of Barcelona" for nothing. The Beast of Barcelona "based his game in a tremendous physical display" (e.g. see wiki) - and the same could be said for his nephew...

In summary I don't think Djokovic will do a "Del Potro", but it remains to be seen that he will have as good a year as 2011.

[Tenez]

Djoko is only 24. He is going to improve quite a bit from now. He will be tougher to beat next year than he was this year contrary to what some would like to hear....However others will improve too. How fast others will improve will be key to Djoko's success...bar injuries of course. Injuries are a great factor to consider nowadays but since we have no clue of if and when they'll appear, there is no point spending to much time dwelling on possible injuries.

I would just add that Djoko and Nadal fought 6 times against each other and Nadal lost his last match v Djoko because he was more injured/impaired than Djoko. So I don't think Djoko is more likely to get injured than Nadal...again contrary to some wishful thinking.

[carrieg4]

A lot of testosterone on this thread!

Yep, Nadal had a bad year by his own standards. Does that mean for certain that the trend will continue? No.

Does it mean that he will rise phoenix like from the flames and defeat all comers? No.

Does it mean that 2012 will be an interesting year on the ATP tour? Yes.

Be grateful to live in interesting times

[kemet]

I am not sure why some people are saying that Rafa has had a poor year. He has won a major and was a runner-up at Wimbledon and the US Open. He was also part of the Davis Cup winning team for Spain.

The only player who has really been able to stop him is Djokovic. If it weren'y for Nole, Rafa could easily have repeated his 2010 season in terms of his major title haul.

[break_in_the_fifth]

I'll keep this about Nadal and avoid mentioning Fed more than once. I think Nadal is close enough to Djokovic's level and that a lot of his shots that he missed at crucial times may have been spectacular winners say last year or 2008. He should of course analyse Djokovic's game and improve his serve etc but I think this years H2H with Novak is as misleading as his H2H with another player.

[10IS]

I am not sure why some people are saying that Rafa has had a poor year.

3 reasons stand out for me:

1. He is is already one of the legends of the game. And one slam victory will be considered poor or just okay given the standards he has set for himself.


2. He lost to only one player too many times (almost all if not all of them in finals) and this means he was second best throughout the year...again an underachievement for a player of his status plus the sense that another player seems to have figured out how to beat him.

3. People who do not like him focus on his losses and in a subtle way ignore the fact he was second only to a player who arguably had one of the best if not the best tennis season ever.

[Guest]

... 3. ... Nadal is the better out door hc player when they meet ... Nadal has never beaten Federer indoor, 0-4, but outdoors he is 4-1. ...

Should this now be 5-1 to Nadal?
ABU DHABI, United Arab Emirates, World Tennis Championship exhibition tournament Outdoors / HC: ... "Rafael Nadal overcame an ailing shoulder to beat Federer 6-1, 7-5 for third place"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/othersports/tennis/rafael-nadal-beats-roger-federer-6-1-7-5-in-abu-dhabi-exhibition-leading-to-new-season/2011/12/31/gIQAquFLSP_story.html

I also see that Rafael Nadal beat Federer in the same tournament last year - beating Federer 7–6(7–4), 7–6(7–3) to win the tournament (so I guess that would make it 6-1 to Nadal).


ps That one outdoor hard court loss to Federer was in the final of the Miami NASDAQ-100 Open (the Miami Masters), where Nadal lost to Federer in five sets 2–6, 6–7(4–7), 7–6(7–5), 6–3, 6–1. Nadal got to within two points of winning that match in the third set before fading. This was played in the beginning of April 2005. Nadal was just Eighteen years old ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tennis/4412667.stm

From the 2005 report: "All three titles Nadal has won (including in Sopot, Poland, last year) were on clay but Miami proved that he will be a real threat on hard courts. He admits, however, that there are still areas to work on."

In fact Rafael Nadal first met Federer the year before in 2004 in the same hard court tournament aged 17. He soundly beat Federer 6-3 6-3 in the third round. He later developed a stress fracture in his left ankle that caused him to miss the 2004 clay season, and which held back his development. Rafael Nadals stats against Federer are beginning to seem a lot more one-sided than I had at first thought.

[Guest]

... 3. ... Nadal is the better out door hc player when they meet ... Nadal has never beaten Federer indoor, 0-4, but outdoors he is 4-1. ...

Should this now be 5-1 to Nadal?
ABU DHABI, United Arab Emirates, World Tennis Championship exhibition tournament Outdoors / HC: ... "Rafael Nadal overcame an ailing shoulder to beat Federer 6-1, 7-5 for third place"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/othersports/tennis/rafael-nadal-beats-roger-federer-6-1-7-5-in-abu-dhabi-exhibition-leading-to-new-season/2011/12/31/gIQAquFLSP_story.html

I also see that Rafael Nadal beat Federer in the same tournament last year - beating Federer 7–6(7–4), 7–6(7–3) to win the tournament (so I guess that would make it 6-1 to Nadal).


ps That one outdoor hard court loss to Federer was in the final of the Miami NASDAQ-100 Open (the Miami Masters), where Nadal lost to Federer in five sets 2–6, 6–7(4–7), 7–6(7–5), 6–3, 6–1. Nadal got to within two points of winning that match in the third set before fading. This was played in the beginning of April 2005. Nadal was just Eighteen years old ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tennis/4412667.stm

From the 2005 report: "All three titles Nadal has won (including in Sopot, Poland, last year) were on clay but Miami proved that he will be a real threat on hard courts. He admits, however, that there are still areas to work on."

In fact Rafael Nadal first met Federer the year before in 2004 in the same hard court tournament aged 17. He soundly beat Federer 6-3 6-3 in the third round. He later developed a stress fracture in his left ankle that caused him to miss the 2004 clay season, and which held back his development. Rafael Nadals stats against Federer are beginning to seem a lot more one-sided than I had at first thought.

Interesting how you're quite prepared to give Nadal the benefit of the doubt in his loss to Fed at Miami, citing his age, and yet neglect to mention that Fed lost the previous year when he'd just won IW and was fighting a cold. His decision to play in Miami was a last minute one and infact before he played nadal he had already played two three setters back to back, iirc.

[Calder106]

I always find it funny that the people who moan most about Nadal (or his supporters) making excuses for his losses are the ones who then make excuses for Federer's losses.

[JuliusHMarx]

I always find it funny that the people who moan most about Nadal (or his supporters) making excuses for his losses are the ones who then make excuses for Federer's losses.

It is kinda funny. Also when the people who moan most about Federer (or his supporters) making excuses for his losses are the ones who then make excuses for Nadal's losses.

And it's funny that none of them recognise that they're mirror-imaging those they criticise.

[Calder106]

I agree JHM. Not being an avid supporter of either although I think they are both great players who have brought a lot to the game of tennis I find it strange.

[hawkeye]

I always find it funny that the people who moan most about Nadal (or his supporters) making excuses for his losses are the ones who then make excuses for Federer's losses.

Ha ha! Federer and Nadal are great players. When they lose there must be a reason or excuse depending on your point of view.

[laverfan]

Sorry to see Nadal's loss to Monfils today. . Good contest and some wonderful shot making from both. Unlucky not have a third set, Nadal was so close.

[legendkillar]

Very subtle LF

Kidding aside it is pants not to see at least 1 of the 2 best players there's been in the final.

[Guest]

I suppose it makes a change seeing an all French final, and a Tsonga v Monfils match up should be interesting. Perhaps this could be a platform for both of them to go on to have their best season.

[10IS]

Yeah I would like to see Tsonga win AO if its not going to Nadal.

[time please]

I wouldn't count Nadal out just yet 101S - he is very short of match practice at the moment and can only get better

Agree would be good to see Tsonga do well

[10IS]

Not counting him out for sure. He has a "bad" habit of getting injured in the tournament before a slam before he foes on to win it

[Sponsored content]