Leinster v Ulster at the RDS on Stephen's day

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15: Luke Fitzgerald
14: David Kearney
13: Fergus McFadden
12: Gordon D'Arcy
11: Fionn Carr
10: Ian Madigan
9: Eoin Reddan

1: Cian Healy
2: Sean Cronin
3: Mike Ross
4: Damian Browne
5: Devin Toner
6: Kevin McLaughlin
7: Shane Jennings CAPTAIN
8: Leo Auva'a

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Richardt Strauss
17: Jack McGrath
18: Jamie Hagan
19: Steven Sykes
20: Rhys Ruddock
21: Isaac Boss
22: Eoin O'Malley
23: Andrew Conway

(15-9): P Nelson; C Cochrane, M Allen, C Farrell, S Danielli; J McKinney, P Marshall;
(1-8): C Black, N Brady (capt), A Macklin, T Barker, L Stevenson, N McComb, A Birch, R Diack;
Replacements (16-23): N Annett, J Cronin, T Court, J Simpson, C Joyce, I Porter, S Olding, C Gaston

Ulster are obviously keeping their powder dry for Munster in Ravenhill next week. This could be a hammering....

Standulstermen wrote:If i were to be critical of anything it would be the scheduling as Ulster and Connacht are always forced to play the big Two in such a short turnaround. Surely these fixtures could be rotated to mean that Leinster and Munster would clash over Christmas the odd time?

You would think so, but it hasn't happened in quite a while. if it doesn't come up next year I'll start getting suspicious.

As for the the other point about not taking the league seriously, there have been as weak or weaker sides named by teams previously in the league. Look at some of the sides Munster have put out over the years. I mean even this weekend they have Luke O'Dea, Sean Scanlon, Paddy Butler... the only difference is they have so many experienced players in their squad they can still put out a strong side. They have something like a 45-man squad. We don't have that kind of depth so when we take the same approach our team looks way more threadbare.

Notch

im not saying i want to see that happen but i would wonder will it?

Could it possibly (and i am just surmising myself here) a bit of a two fingers up to the IRFU regarding the announcement this week as well? Just me spitballing.

Nah look, the coaches might want to stick it to the IRFU but they want points more than anything. I think if they felt they could win both games and not have to worry about player fitness they'd go with a strong team. I don't think it is possible though

As the all too rare threads proclaiming sell-outs across Ireland and Wales show, these games are very valuable economically to the Pro12 and to the teams because of the timing. Families together looking for a day out, people have time off and so on. The amount of ticket sales mean they won't change and they'll always be derbies too to maximise that so unless they completely rejig the NH calendar we're stuck with these games.

But from a coaches point of view they are a massive nightmare. Two high intensity games in the Heineken Cup followed up by two games against Munster and Leinster, then a game the next week and then two more massive intensity games in the Heineken Cup that will probably define the entire season.

Brian McLaughlin might argue he's caught in a Catch-22 and without reliable squad depth he's right. We don't have the depth to cope with two fixtures in four days sandwiched in between rounds 4 and 5 of the Heineken Cup.

So he needs to do something to develop the depth of the squad going into new year because the frontline guys need to be managed carefully and the Irish internationals are about to go missing all through February and March for the Six Nations... I can see why they think blooding youngsters now is a good idea. Imagine if Wallace and Spence were both selected for the 6N. Chris Farrell (debut on Boxing Day coming up) could end up playing for us then very easily.

All in all, they've clearly made two decisions;

1) When the depth is not there it's better than to target one game and win than go for broke and end up with two defeats or, even worse, more injury concerns ahead of the HC restarting.
2) The game they target should be the one in front of the home fans. They owe the fans a strong team for that one.

I agree with both, although not without reservations. My main reservation is that it sends out a message we are not good enough to beat Leinster at the RDS which is a big negative, whether that message is actually what the coaches believe or not. My second reservation is that Ulster will probably lose and I really, really, really hate watching Ulster lose!

Very good post notch.

Yeah fair enough notch. i guess i was kind of hoping they were trying to throw two fingers up to the irfu. whatever the reservations about this selection my ire is solely focused on the IRFU at present

Leinster & Munster always use each others Celtic League games to prime themselves for the HC. Their timing shows its a bit of a mini-cartel really.

Cant see them changing it either.

Missing from Leinster:
O Driscoll
Sexton
Cullen
O Brien
Rob Kearney
Heaslip
Nacewa
Horgan
V/D Merwe
Dom Ryan

And we still have a powerful side out. That, to me, says so much and how far we've come in 3/4years.

Crikey, what a young team. At least they have all played together for the Ravens and will know each other's games. Looking forward to seeing the Dungannon players, esp Birch in the seven shirt. Good to see Jerry Cronin back too. Best of luck lads!!

Is it true that Ulster still have that puritanical thing of not wanting to play on a Sunday? and that's why they are having to play 2 games in 4 days. I.E they could play Munster on Sunday but don't want to.

Someone was telling me that, are they talking shyte?

Shyte speak! I bloody hope so anyway. I thought we packed the puritans off to america in the 1640s?! We need more a more Cavalier attitude up here anyway. I wonder if Steve Meehan has been signed up by anybody?

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Is it true that Ulster still have that puritanical thing of not wanting to play on a Sunday? and that's why they are having to play 2 games in 4 days. I.E they could play Munster on Sunday but don't want to.

Someone was telling me that, are they talking shyte?

Actually might be an honest mistake - Ulster have a deal with BBC1 to play on Friday nights so don't play on Sunday because of cash rather than anything else.

Gibson wrote:Leinster & Munster always use each others Celtic League games to prime themselves for the HC. Their timing shows its a bit of a mini-cartel really.

Cant see them changing it either.

Missing from Leinster:
O Driscoll
Sexton
Cullen
O Brien
Rob Kearney
Heaslip
Nacewa
Horgan
V/D Merwe
Dom Ryan

And we still have a powerful side out. That, to me, says so much and how far we've come in 3/4years.

Nathan White & Matt Berquist. Let's not forget them. Both would arguably be in a HC 23.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Is it true that Ulster still have that puritanical thing of not wanting to play on a Sunday? and that's why they are having to play 2 games in 4 days. I.E they could play Munster on Sunday but don't want to.

Ulster don't have a problem with playing on a Sunday, other people have a problem with them playing on a Sunday and the Branch doesn't want any more protests outside Ravenhill so they try and avoid it. Feckin' Free Ps

The more and more i think about this, he happier I am about the Ulster coaches decision. We could easily be back in Dublin soon- Leinster are going really well, and if we get out of our group it's most likely to be a best runner-up.

We deprive them of the chance to gain a psychological advantage over our first team and get some firsthand experience of our patterns of play (complex as they are )

It's all so clear now Notch. Ulster to dump Leinster out of the HEC quarter final in Lansdowne road. Dublin will be awash with Ulster flags for the first time since '99.

Feckless Rogue wrote:It's all so clear now Notch. Ulster to dump Leinster out of the HEC quarter final in Lansdowne road. Dublin will be awash with Ulster flags for the first time since '99.

Amazingly. That was the last Rugby match Ulster won in Dublin. The HC final in a Previous Millennium.

Is the 9-9 draw at Ravenhill in 2006(2007?) the last time we didn't lose??

We beat them at ravenhill 2 seasons ago 16-14 or something with luke Fitz running in a late consolation for the BP.

I recall Humph Snr coming on and rescuing a draw for us (16-16 i think) in 2007 or something like that aswell. Other than that our record against Leinster is shocking.

He would have walked into most teams XV's in the world while he was benching behind Botha and Matfield. Shame for him but i doubt he regrets any of it.

Doesnt come across as the type of man to worry about things like that.

....ah ok ....those games slipped my mind for some reason...I feel a lot more positive about this game now...

Standulstermen wrote:We beat them at ravenhill 2 seasons ago 16-14 or something with luke Fitz running in a late consolation for the BP.

I recall Humph Snr coming on and rescuing a draw for us (16-16 i think) in 2007 or something like that as well. Other than that our record against Leinster is shocking.

Was at all of them. It was lashing rain at the 6 6 draw (Darce kicked our points) Dec 06 I think. But not as bad as the rain when the 16 14 one was played.
The one with Wee Davy coming on at half time was in between. Ollie Le Roux was playing and we were 16 nil up at half time.

Gee was it 6-6? that's even worse than I remember...that was the 1st Ulster game (and Union game) I took my GF to I think....she wasn't impressed ....

roddersm wrote:Gee was it 6-6? that's even worse than I remember...that was the 1st Ulster game (and Union game) I took my GF to I think....she wasn't impressed ....

We ended up in Robinsons, after the Crown bar. Came out, pi$$ed. Took a wrong turn round the Europa hotel, and ended up getting picked up on the Falls road at 3 am in a taxi driven by Ian Paisleys older brother. How wet did we get.

Jennifer, we were in the same pubs and... the same taxi... I tink. Great weekend.

Gibson wrote:Jennifer, we were in the same pubs and... the same taxi... I tink. Great weekend.

Ah Howiyah Declan.

What the feic was Ian Paisleys older brother doing on the Falls Road?

Actually- what the feic where you doing on the Falls Road?

Notch wrote:What the feic was Ian Paisleys older brother doing on the Falls Road?

He just looked like him. You had to be there.

Notch wrote:
Actually- what the feic where you doing on the Falls Road?

Extreme drunkenness, and a lack of understanding that Taxis in Belfast can't easily be hailed from the side of the street.

Big Ian's bro just took pity on us. Or perhaps we looked like his lost brethren.

Well- the reckoning for Ulster Ravens is coming.

Good luck to all the young lads taking the pitch today for Ulster. The most important thing is that they enjoy the experience and learn as much from it as possible. I have a feeling we're going to see some stars of the future lining out for Ulster today. Believe.

Looking forward to seeing how our young future stars give a good account ofthemselves, lets hope the Leinster boys ate too much turkey yesterday and are slightly off their game....

Come on Ulster

Some really good play by Ulster, but poor decision making by the SH.

SUFTUM!!!!

This is virtually the Ulster Ravens side - Tom Court the only first team player on the pitch - heroic performance so far.

The flipping Ravens are better than the 1st team by the looks of it!

Rodders,

was just thinking the same thing...but the last 10 mins will be ugly as fatigue kicks in.

So proud of these lads.

Off their feet though, exhausted. But they have fought and fought and showed so much heart and desire. This will have been such a positive experience.

They have played out of their skins...with some decent management and coaching they could well be the future of Ulster rugby.

What a game from Ali Birch though. He may be too small but has the heart of a lion and reads the game incredibly well.

My thoughts exaclty Notch he was outstanding, as were a lot of the guys to be fair

If he was 10kg heavier he would get a lot more gametime, let's be honest. His size will hold him back. But the rest of his game was really, really impressive.

Notch wrote:What a game from Ali Birch though. He may be too small but has the heart of a lion and reads the game incredibly well.

He was outstanding and he never looked physically dominated once in that game! His size was never an issue, what is his height/weight?

Great job ulster you're young guns really stood up. Very promising For the future and it must make the fans proud seeing the heart these boys have.

From a Leinster perspective:

Thought we did ok, maybe there was a little bit of trying to force the pass but would say that we did have that professional clinical instinct Again. Defence at time was poor as was attack. Scrum was a positive though when the ref woke up and out outside backs showed glimpses of what they can do.

Healy-6
Scrummaging improved throughout the game and carried hard an direct. Lost ball in contact and got or Penalised a few too many times.
Cronin-7.5
One of his better games I thought. Great line running, defended really well. Lineout was good while not great. Looked good on the deck too.
Ross-6
Scrummaging improved when the ref woke up. Carried better than previously and seemed to be generally more mobile than in previous games.
Browne-5
Average game. Not great w ball in hand but good at the breakdown and ok in defence. Maybe not tough enough to be a real enforcer.
Toner-6.5
Again good, better in contact, lineout was good, rucking was good and was very good in defence
McLaughlin-7
Looked much better than in previous games. Offered himself to carry regularily, and out of touch too. Very physical.
Jennings-6
Some good work on the floor and defence but hasn't been linking backs and forwards the way he can of late
Avuav'a-7
Carried hard and offered himself as an outlet when Leinster were underpressure. Wasn't prominent in many other facets of the game
Reddan-6.5
Made some silly mistakes and took a bit longer than usual to get the ball out but great decision making and vision
Madigan-6.5
Some very good and bad passing. Great vision and some good defence too while not reaching the heights he has in previous games.
Carr-5
Scored a try but didn't offer himself as much as he usually does and I'd have liked to have seen him beat more defenders
Darcy-5
Poor decision making and not many successful contact situations. Defended well but limits attacks due to how reluctant he is to pass and how he can telegraph passes.
McFadden-7
Made some nice half breaks and threatened the gain line constantly. Kicked well and also was good in defence.
Kearney-4.5
Didn't go looking for the ball enough and wasn't very effective when he had it.
Fitz-6
Looked very dangerous at times but made some basic mistakes at times too. Could have scored a try if he'd backed himself on a 1st half break

Hagan and McGrath both did very well and struass was good too. Ruddock was excellent in all facets of play and boss visibly spead up the service. O'Malley looked dangerous and it was good to see Conway back

I think D'Arcy has no business starting the big games for Leinster anymore Pete, nevermind Ireland. You've got to assess his performance in the context he was up against two lads making their first start in professional rugby!

I'll post my full thoughts later, but the difference in the scrum was when Mackln went off and Court came on (surely one of the least likely sentences in the world?). The ref didn't "wake up" - he was very precise in his analysis of what was going wrong before that. But hey, the IRFU will insist we play Court at TH.

Ross was abysmal and really worrying for Ireland. every penalty against him was correct and for me he should have been pinged in the scrum before the 3rd try. Now i know that many refs that ignore this particular infraction but at every scrum he bound on the arm. He was told not to and yet he continually did it. Should have been yellowed for me.

In all fairness you could see the loosehead stand off Ross it was quite obvious I thought.

Notch I totally agree with you I think his main issue is his decision making not only what decision he makes but also how long it takes him to make it. There were times when he was running at like 50% with the ball in two hands then the defence comes up he has taken so long and the pass is cut out and the defence are now lining up Darcy.

Very, very poor play. McFadden was considerably more direct.

Pete

Leinster had the better scrum. He didnt need to do it (i dont think) but he clearly bound on the arm every time and rightly got pinged. McFadden was decent but i thought O'Malley looked sharper but again that was against a much more tired defence.

Black was outstanding i thought. A good standard for 3rd choice LH. Birch and Nelson look good as do the two centres. Cochrane took his try well. Diack is a major worry. Without a serious upturn in form he shouldnt see the first team squad

Standulstermen - please give Black some credit for managing Ross. He was the one white shirt to enhance his reputation.

Unfortunately the rest of the team were way out of their depth, but with the new IRFU directives it looks as though this is the standard of team Ulster can expect to put out more often than not.

Black was outstanding i thought

I did say that did i not Aukster? Not sure what more credit you want me to give. Reality is though that Macklin was getting it very tough on the other side and had Ross stayed up they could have put the squeeze on. Binding on the arm is a massively cheap offense and Ross didnt learn at all

Er, no Aukster there's a middle ground between being allowed a bit less freedom in overseas signings and having no senior players. The likes of Cave, Spence, Marshall, Henry, Faloon, Gilroy, Tuohy, McAllister, Fitzpatrick, Humphreys, D'Arcy would not be legislated against- never mind our homegrown Irish internationals.

Ross couldn't reach his body tho because he didn't come forward an thus Ross went to ground.