Worst 9 ever?

The award held by Jamie Nutbrown for so long now goes to Kahn Fotuali'i.

What an effing plonker.

Oh dear.

I doubt he will still be around next season, he will probably go back to New Zealand at the end of the season.
Webb is much, much better and everyone in Wales apart from the Ospreys coaches seem to realise it.

At least Nutbrowen wasnt first choice!

Webb is a better player by far - Seriously, WHY are they playing Kahn?

wales606 wrote:At least Nutbrowen wasnt first choice!

Webb is a better player by far - Seriously, WHY are they playing Kahn?

Well to be fair he has just come from the other side of the world and is playing in a totally different set up, then no sooner does he get used to the players around him, a whole squad comes back from the world cup and he has to get used to those to!

I don't think we need him and he should come off the bench to give Webb a rest, I also think we should let him go at the end of the season, not because he is a bad player but because we don't need him.

Never thought it was possible to have someone even slower than Mike Phillips, congratulations to whoever scouted him, you've out done yourself. Don't like to judge players to quickly, but sadly for me the axe is now hovering.

How come he looked very good at the world cup then? He was described as one of Samoa's only genuinely world class players. Maybe he was just playing with much better players who could provide him with better/faster/cleaner ball and others outside him who were able to do something with it, compare with the opposite at the ospreys?

Faster ball, at the back of a few rucks he looked like he was setting up for a picnic! Got away with the first bax kick and then tried it again, borderline insanity, he's out of his depth and time to exit stage left.

Haven't seen much of how he is playing for Ospreys at present, but he was one of the best 9s at the WC during the pool stages, and he was starting ahead of Andy Ellis for the Crusaders last year.

chris saverimmuto although thats going back a few years

thomas o leary on his bad days is getting there.

Sad to read that Kahn Fotuali'i has turned into a bad rugby player, as it somewhat ruins what had been thusfar a pretty big year for him,starting off in early February he played a full season of Super xv,then a couple of tests for Manu Samoa,followed by the remainder of the ITM cup, then a World Cup tournament,then off to play for the Ospreys,sometimes it might be hard to maintain your motivation and intensity.
In this part of the World a number of people really rate Fotuali'i,Todd Blackadder and Robbie Deans to name just two..But then again what would they know????

To be fair Andy Ellis would be a below average player even in the Aviva Prem.
It looks to me like Kahn is following the play book too much and being over coached, following Biggar's example perhaps?

e.g. 10 mins to go and the Ospreys are down by 2 tries. He shovels it to the forwards 5/6 times. The Scarlets are ready for it every time, at least have them pick and go a few times for variation you can't just keep passing it to the forwards standing still! There was also 2 or 3 times he could given it out to the backs were they had an overlap but he persisted on slow ball and not just then but the whole game.

So it appears Kahn was a good player until he started playing for the Ospreys, can that be true?

It appears that the Ospreys were playing to orders, Adam Jones is one of the best props in the World but he was binding on the arm and driving down, up or across (looking for the penalty) in every scrum. why didn't the Ref sort it out? Smiler knew what was going on, Nigel didn't have a clue!

Surely the IRB must sort out this binding issue, props cannot bind on the jersey as the Laws suggest as modern tight jerseys dont allow that, three times young Rhodri Jones was penalised for not binding. but every time his grip slipped from the jersey as Adam (binding on his arm) drove down. The only answer is for props to wear scrummage belts with handles (like the knee rolls lineout forwards wear for lifting). Testiment to how good Adam is, that when he went off the previously dominant Ospreys scrum went backwards!

Was Adam playing to orders? If so was Kahn playing to orders, why hold good ball in the base of the ruck, did he not trust his 10?

Why hold good ball at the base of the ruck? Probably because they where waiting for Kahn to get to the ruck. Was miles off the pace, hopefully will get better, fastest ball from a ruck was provided by Adam, cannot beleive he's faster than anyone!

To be fair the flankers and number 8 should be blocking the Scarlets coming through on the scrum half so the ploy of puttin JT and RJ in the second row back fired as in the Saries game i.e., blame the selectors/coaches.

Kahn is a good player, one of the best 9’s in the world based on the WC. Might be more to do with him having an extremely long (travelled over 100,000 km to play SXV) season with the Crusaders and a WC before starting another campaign in a new team?

Let’s be clear, he’d have been an AB if he wanted to, he’s better than all the other HBs running around in black at the moment...

Worst 9 = Tómas O'Leary

No other contenders!

O'leary - hes the one that looks like a horse right ?

Who will be Ireland's 9 then ?

Oh and its got to be Gareth Cooper towards the end of his career for Wales

CHRIS BRIDGES - FACT - END OF

O'Leary would make a better prop than Scrumhalf!

Fotuali'i, judged on his whole career, would have to be seen as a genuinely top class player. This is a guy who forced his way into the starting XV of one of the most attacking minded and successful provincial teams in any hemisphere. If you're good enough to be first choice 9 for the Crusaders you're good.

I don't dispute he's been a let down in Wales though. Sometimes very good players lose motivation or form when they go overseas. He's been playing rugby since the start of the Super XV in 2011 and it seems he's lost his edge. Probably needs a holiday at this point.

Bergamasco surely??

He had a howler of a game. If it were just two charged down box kicks in the game then fair enough, but off the back of two consecutive rucks is abismal (like my spelling). That said I can understand what people are saying about maybe he needs a bit of a breather due to too much rugby recently, however I also think that maybe he could be yet another player who is meant to be the nuts when playing in the SH who just can not manage to survive in the NH. Also I guess having BIggar as his outside half may not give him too much confidence in his options, as too be honest he is probably used to better quality fly halves aroung him.

Rhys Webb is a good young scrum half, and I am sure that he will start at scrum half against the Blues, and probably for the next few matches, with Fotuali'i coming off the bench if needed.

As for worst scrum halves ever I would be thinking of Gavin Cattle, or Gareth Cooper (at the end of his career)

Aren't you overreacting to a couple of incidents? From what I've seen of him, he's a good player.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:That said I can understand what people are saying about maybe he needs a bit of a breather due to too much rugby recently, however I also think that maybe he could be yet another player who is meant to be the nuts when playing in the SH who just can not manage to survive in the NH.

Yeah he was cruising at the Crusaders but now can't hack the pace the Ospreys play the game at!

Notch wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:That said I can understand what people are saying about maybe he needs a bit of a breather due to too much rugby recently, however I also think that maybe he could be yet another player who is meant to be the nuts when playing in the SH who just can not manage to survive in the NH.

Yeah he was cruising at the Crusaders but now can't hack the pace the Ospreys play the game at!

Well so far the Ospreys have had four SH scrum halves in Spice, Marshall, Nutbrown and Fotuali'i, and with the expection of Spice, non of them have lived up to their reputation that they arrived with. Whether they need 'better' quality players around them to look good, or the lack of quality facilities hampers their performance, or the style of play just doesn't suit them, or they just consider themselves too good for the competition and get cocky. The fact of the matter is they were SH players who were meant to be top quality who didn't show that in the NH. And to be fair there are plenty of other examples in the Jeff amd Rabo.

Marshall was drawing a pension when he played for Ospreys and Nutbrown had no reputation to live up to.

SS, there was also Ricky Januarie

I don't know how anyone can judge Kahn on a handful of games? How long is his contract?

Has anyone heard of adapting to style of play/surroundings/team-mates etc etc etc?

Jason Spice - what a player! Almost an All Black but a wonderful servant to Wellington Rugby

Nutbrown was close to Allback to selection so actually he did have a reputation.

When Nigel Owens said the ball was out i dont think it was.
The tactic that Fotuali'i was trying to use was the one Saracens used over and over again against Quins. Where they join two or three players to the back of the ruck so the ruck becomes longer so that the scrum half has more time to kick. An annoying loophole in the laws but legal nonetheless.

gowales wrote:

Nutbrown was close to Allback selection so actually he did have a reputation.

...

Only in his dreams. I'm pretty sure we were never that desperate - he was backup to Marshall (and Senio) at the Crusaders, and backup to Kelleher then Leonard at the Chiefs. In 2006 when he made the Junior ABs there were a few halfbacks injured.


Spice was a good servant to the Hurricanes. I always thought he should have stuck to bowling left-arm spin though (he played 1st class cricket aged 18, just shame he was competing with Daniel Vettori for a team spot a year or 2 later).

"Spice,Marshall,Nutbrown and Fotuali'i"
How does Nutbrown make it into the same sentence.......I must be missing something.

Have you not all seen the dragons summer signing, Joe Bedford. He is absolute garbage!
Also Gareth Cooper spent the last 5 years of his career, living off his early career. He was dreadful for the Dragons and Gloucester and then somehow got back into the Welsh team after arriving at the Blues. In the end, they decided he'd be more use sitting on his settee!!

I'm glad someone mentioned Gareth Cooper. I never rated him. Also Nutmeg wasn't a great signing for the O's...Januarie was very welcome when we borrowed him. I bet some would've said Mike Phillips at one time too...

Cari.........some still would

Apologies all I forgot Januarie, he actually came with his rep being damaged a bit before hand, but played better than I expected. Maybe Nutbrown wasn't rated in the SH but when he came over he was advertised as a quality player, and I believe he was a NZ A player (i may be wrong). ANyway the point I was making is that there are quite a few players who do come over with reputations of being good players (maybe not international stars but still supposedly better than anything we have) and they just don't seem to fire.

I think that the style of rugby, attitude of the players, and quality of players they are used to are major reasons.
I was watching a replay of the Crusaders v Highlanders the other day and there just seems to be no pressure on the teams. They're happy to run with it from almost anywhere and willing to make mistakes. You compare that with the likes of the Ospreys where we are now a very structured risk adverse team and thats a major change. Also to go from playing with guys like Dan Carter, Sonny Bill and Isael Dagg then with the likes of Biggar and Hook probably limits the way you can play.

gowales wrote:I think that the style of rugby, attitude of the players, and quality of players they are used to are major reasons.
I was watching a replay of the Crusaders v Highlanders the other day ...

I was at that match (I assume it was a replay of the 2011 game). Did it look as wet and cold on TV as it was on the day?

Yea it was the 2011 game, but i should have said Highlanders v Crusaders because it was at Carisbrook is that the same game you went to? The weather actually looked rather pleasant!

gowales wrote:Yea it was the 2011 game, but i should have said Highlanders v Crusaders because it was at Carisbrook is that the same game you went to? The weather actually looked rather pleasant!

That may have been the 2010 match. In 2011 the Crusaders hosted the Highlanders on Easter Saturday at Trafalgar Park in Nelson (it worked out perfectly for me, weather excepted. Spent the afternoon at my Aunt's 50th bash, then headed down to the game).

Highlanders won 26-18 with some pretty good defence. Dan Carter and Richie McCaw were both out injured while blast-from-the-past Tony Brown had a good game for the Southerners