Standard of the Welsh Derbies

Went to the CCS on friday and just watched the west wales derby, both games littered with errors, too much wayward kicking and in general a poor standard of rugby. I know there was bad weather today but it is still bad. Is it any wonder the regions have all but bombed in europe? Also i think many of the welsh players have been brought back too early, many of them look jaded and not up to their usual standards. I hope Gatts can get them together and get ther best out of them before the 6n otherwise it could be a dissapointing tournament for us!

When has Welsh rugby been any different? And is it really any different to French and English rugby?

This season has been a mess because of the World Cup

And the oz game

AlynDavies wrote:When has Welsh rugby been any different? And is it really any different to French and English rugby?

This season has been a mess because of the World Cup

I may regret saying this but I suspect Quins v Sarries tomorrow will be a cracker & Glaws played some quality today against my team Wasps ( they were rubbish! But our pack has been decimated nothing to do with the WC)

I guess pitches don't help in Wales right now either.

Scarlets vs Ospreys and Blues vs Dragons were better games than the Quins vs Sarries game last night.

At Twickers Sarries were almost refusing to play any rugby, not because they didn't know how to, the brief glimpse we got of them opening up they looked very good but still very controlled and over coached. An american friend next to me at the match, who has watched little rugby mentioned that they were clinical. Accurate assumption. Lacked anything I would pay to go and watch though.

maestegmafia wrote:Scarlets vs Ospreys and Blues vs Dragons were better games than the Quins vs Sarries game last night.

At Twickers Sarries were almost refusing to play any rugby, not because they didn't know how to, the brief glimpse we got of them opening up they looked very good but still very controlled and over coached. An american friend next to me at the match, who has watched little rugby mentioned that they were clinical. Accurate assumption. Lacked anything I would pay to go and watch though.

Better games because you are Welsh I suspect.
Certainly not better in terms of skill, accuracy & for me I would rather see that than fast & loose and aimless kicking.
Defense wins matches & Sarries were superb in defence as most real winning teams are. I would like to see them open up a bit like Quins do but they deserved that win & it was a lot better fare than was served up in Wales recently.
I am sure most of the world record crowd would agree.....

GavinDragon wrote:Is it any wonder the regions have all but bombed in europe?

This bombing in europe? Is that 7 wins and 1 draw, after the first fortnight? I apprectiate the double headers were not the best. However if you look at it the Scarlets picked up two losing bonus points against Munster who are something special when it comes to the HC, and the Scarlets are still in second place in the group with a realistic chance of progressing (into the Amlin if not the HC). The Ospreys lost to Sarries, who are one of the top sides (arguably the top after the last round of rugby) in the Jeff at the moment, and are sitting 4pts off second place so are far from out of the running. The Blues won and lost to Edinburgh, however they are still top of the group. The Dragons had a nightmare fortnight against Exeter, however they did beat USAP earlier in the group, so they still have a chance of progressing.

As for the standard of Welsh derby matches i guess it depends what you want from a derby match. I really enjoyed the Scarlet V Ospreys (obviously, but i enjoyed the 9-9 draw at the Liberty too) as the players were obviously raising their game for their local rivals. Dom Day played IMO his best match in a Scarlets jersey on Boxing day, it may not have been 'pretty' rugby but it was full of passion and meant everything to the players and fans.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Scarlets vs Ospreys and Blues vs Dragons were better games than the Quins vs Sarries game last night.

At Twickers Sarries were almost refusing to play any rugby, not because they didn't know how to, the brief glimpse we got of them opening up they looked very good but still very controlled and over coached. An american friend next to me at the match, who has watched little rugby mentioned that they were clinical. Accurate assumption. Lacked anything I would pay to go and watch though.

Better games because you are Welsh I suspect.
Certainly not better in terms of skill, accuracy & for me I would rather see that than fast & loose and aimless kicking.
Defense wins matches & Sarries were superb in defence as most real winning teams are. I would like to see them open up a bit like Quins do but they deserved that win & it was a lot better fare than was served up in Wales recently.
I am sure most of the world record crowd would agree.....

I don't like this pathetic argument that someone cant comment on a game they watched as they are hindered by not being of that nation when comparing one game to one in their own. Remember we are fans of rugby first and foremost and our national allegiances lie second.

Certainly better in terms of skill, accuracy was more weather dependant but seemed ok. Though Saracens are a clinically professional team when it comes to accuracy, lead deftly by Hodgson at ten and Stringer at nine. Both are proving an asset to Sarries when it comes to closing out games. Much applauded, though woefully un-entertaining, as you stated yourself.

We would all like to see more entertaining rugby, so as a spectacle a game where both teams created and scored from opportunities in a game that had plenty of free flowing rugby and lacked the rigmaroles of a referee that lacks an empathy with the game he is adjudicating vs a game where the referee stamped his inconsistency on the match as much as either team and where only one team managed to conjure an un assisted try, I would have to say that the former was definitely the game to watch.

A great spectacle, as it always is, to see a full national stadium. Flag waving fans and a friendly family atmosphere enjoying the seasonal good cheer. But when judging the two games I would say that the two historically old adversaries of Scarlets vs Ospreys, formally local derby teams Swansea and Llanelli, was definitely the better to watch.

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Scarlets vs Ospreys and Blues vs Dragons were better games than the Quins vs Sarries game last night.

At Twickers Sarries were almost refusing to play any rugby, not because they didn't know how to, the brief glimpse we got of them opening up they looked very good but still very controlled and over coached. An american friend next to me at the match, who has watched little rugby mentioned that they were clinical. Accurate assumption. Lacked anything I would pay to go and watch though.

Better games because you are Welsh I suspect.
Certainly not better in terms of skill, accuracy & for me I would rather see that than fast & loose and aimless kicking.
Defense wins matches & Sarries were superb in defence as most real winning teams are. I would like to see them open up a bit like Quins do but they deserved that win & it was a lot better fare than was served up in Wales recently.
I am sure most of the world record crowd would agree.....

I don't like this pathetic argument that someone cant comment on a game they watched as they are hindered by not being of that nation when comparing one game to one in their own. Remember we are fans of rugby first and foremost and our national allegiances lie second.

Certainly better in terms of skill, accuracy was more weather dependant but seemed ok. Though Saracens are a clinically professional team when it comes to accuracy, lead deftly by Hodgson at ten and Stringer at nine. Both are proving an asset to Sarries when it comes to closing out games. Much applauded, though woefully un-entertaining, as you stated yourself.

We would all like to see more entertaining rugby, so as a spectacle a game where both teams created and scored from opportunities in a game that had plenty of free flowing rugby and lacked the rigmaroles of a referee that lacks an empathy with the game he is adjudicating vs a game where the referee stamped his inconsistency on the match as much as either team and where only one team managed to conjure an un assisted try, I would have to say that the former was definitely the game to watch.

A great spectacle, as it always is, to see a full national stadium. Flag waving fans and a friendly family atmosphere enjoying the seasonal good cheer. But when judging the two games I would say that the two historically old adversaries of Scarlets vs Ospreys, formally local derby teams Swansea and Llanelli, was definitely the better to watch.

No one is denying you of an opinion it is MY OPINION that your view is biased that's all. We can agree to disagree but this thread was about the sub standard of the Welsh Derby games & I agree with that. If you are a supporter of one of the regions you may have enjoyed the games - great good on you.
But comparing the levels of skill on show there was no comparison in my yes biased opinion.
I don't think you will have anyone starting a thread about the lack of quality on show at HQ yesterday.

I didn't say it was unentertaining either, far from it, I would have liked Sarries to open up a bit more, there is a difference there. But it was a full blooded 'Derby' & I thoroughly enjoyed it & it wasn't helped by a boggy pitch.

Anyway watching a game of rugby is an all round experience and as you are Welsh you were probably less inclined to get as much involved as one of the supporting fans.
I would be the same if I went to watch the Ospreys I'm sure!

BigTrevsbigmac wrote: No one is denying you of an opinion it is MY OPINION that your view is biased that's all. We can agree to disagree but this thread was about the sub standard of the Welsh Derby games & I agree with that. If you are a supporter of one of the regions you may have enjoyed the games - great good on you.
But comparing the levels of skill on show there was no comparison in my yes biased opinion.
I don't think you will have anyone starting a thread about the lack of quality on show at HQ yesterday.

I didn't say it was unentertaining either, far from it, I would have liked Sarries to open up a bit more, there is a difference there. But it was a full blooded 'Derby' & I thoroughly enjoyed it & it wasn't helped by a boggy pitch.

Anyway watching a game of rugby is an all round experience and as you are Welsh you were probably less inclined to get as much involved as one of the supporting fans.
I would be the same if I went to watch the Ospreys I'm sure!

Just reading that, it seems to smack of double-standards.

Basically, you are saying that the Sarries vs Harlequins game was an intense full blooded derby, that wasnt as open and entertaining as you'd liked, possibly partly down to a bogged down pitch, but was of a better quality than the welsh derby.

I watched both the sarries vs quins game and scarlets vs ospreys games. the only difference was possibly the lack of quality in biggars kicking in comparison to the 3 other flyhalfs on show and the quality of the lineouts.

I'm not a supporter of any of the teams involved, but i saw no concernable "difference in quality" between the derbys.

Both were full of intensity, full-blooded tackles and pressure. I think you may be slightly biased in your own opinions BigTrev.

Comfort wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote: No one is denying you of an opinion it is MY OPINION that your view is biased that's all. We can agree to disagree but this thread was about the sub standard of the Welsh Derby games & I agree with that. If you are a supporter of one of the regions you may have enjoyed the games - great good on you.
But comparing the levels of skill on show there was no comparison in my yes biased opinion.
I don't think you will have anyone starting a thread about the lack of quality on show at HQ yesterday.

I didn't say it was unentertaining either, far from it, I would have liked Sarries to open up a bit more, there is a difference there. But it was a full blooded 'Derby' & I thoroughly enjoyed it & it wasn't helped by a boggy pitch.

Anyway watching a game of rugby is an all round experience and as you are Welsh you were probably less inclined to get as much involved as one of the supporting fans.
I would be the same if I went to watch the Ospreys I'm sure!

Just reading that, it seems to smack of double-standards.

Basically, you are saying that the Sarries vs Harlequins game was an intense full blooded derby, that wasnt as open and entertaining as you'd liked, possibly partly down to a bogged down pitch, but was of a better quality than the welsh derby.

I watched both the sarries vs quins game and scarlets vs ospreys games. the only difference was possibly the lack of quality in biggars kicking in comparison to the 3 other flyhalfs on show and the quality of the lineouts.

I'm not a supporter of any of the teams involved, but i saw no concernable "difference in quality" between the derbys.

Both were full of intensity, full-blooded tackles and pressure. I think you may be slightly biased in your own opinions BigTrev.

I am not a supporter of any of the teams involved either but it sounds as though you sort of agree with me as there clearly was a difference in quality (your opinion) as the standard of kicking & lineouts weren't as good.

I wanted Sarries to open up as they looked good when they did & I suspect most neutrals did also, however, I bet most Sarries fans were happy to have their team in control something which Sarries/Munster do very well & it brings them success. Most neutrals probably favoured Quins because their natural style tends to be more attacking like Saints. I love rugby and admire all the different styles if done with skill & accuracy.
Anyway you pays yer money takes yer pick. Let's get more people watching rugby full stop.

hmm, i guess, but im putting that on one team, the ospreys, and those are partly the reasons they lost the game. But I honestly didnt think their was a difference in overall quality across either derby - I enjoyed them both, was nice to see full (or close) stadiums too!!!