Test cricket will die if India loses 4-0

I am living on hope since the T1 in Lords...that the Indian team will fight back in the next test.

while bowling is looking decisively better the batting is following the same pattern....can't get 300 runs.

This series may confirm and bring us out of the self denials and doubts......we will all agree...that we just don't have the batting to compete overseas.
The oldies don't have enouhg fire-power left to play BIG knocks.

the young ones and lower order are useless.

Our batting decline may be terminal.

and we may lose this series also 4-0....
the only good thing about that will be that we will not live in hope to perform better on the next tour.

Our interests as a nation in test cricket will die.....and as we move to ODI and T20 IPL etc......globally test cricket will die...because the bigger cricketing world goes where India leads them.
our Asian brother and the afro-power lobby run SA and Mugabe's Zim, ever commercially minded WI ( whose mascot is Gayle with a well known opinion on test cricket) will go where Indian interests leads them.

barring maybe Aus-eng playing ashes every year with little sponsorship money and following.

That leaves idealogically aligned with Aus-Eng but financially in penury NZ.....where their poor top cricketers have to baby sit in off seasons to make their livings
Much as their heart will be with Aus and Eng...their mouths ( read commerce) will drive them towards Indian interests

Ironically so much of the future of test cricket.....relies on the results of this series

Sorry, but I believe that to be complete tripe. Need to shoot off now, but I'll explain why later.

Fists of Fury wrote:Sorry, but I believe that to be complete tripe. Need to shoot off now, but I'll explain why later.

yes you need time to put together a coherent case for yourself on this matter

V2 after reading your thread on SA and this one I realise perhaps you like controversy more than a decent debate, but here goes anyway.

Test cricket will never die. India under Gary Kirsten has achieved the number 1 spot albeit not for too long, but they have. Everyone including the indian fans you have so little faith in realises that India has a host of veterans who will slowly start losing their edge and form and retirement is imminent.

There will be a change of guard in India soon and a rebuilding process will begin.

Even though the BCCi have the most money and by all accounrs a few people/countries voting their way, they will not have the power to end test cricket.

why are you bothering to reply to him lol...he's clearly fishing and wanting a reaction and he's getting one.

He's not getting one, he is simply getting 'owned' as they say these days, with pure facts and reasoning, which is the best way to deal with such people as they soon get shown to be rather silly.

V2 after reading your thread on SA and this one I realise perhaps you like controversy more than a decent debate, but here goes anyway.

biltong....you like to stir up a controversy by alluding to it..

Test cricket will never die. India under Gary Kirsten has achieved the number 1 spot albeit not for too long, but they have. Everyone including the indian fans you have so little faith in realises that India has a host of veterans who will slowly start losing their edge and form and retirement is imminent.

rebuilding.....you don't know about indian cricket....there is just not any test match batting left in india is what many are suspecting

Even though the BCCi have the most money and by all accounrs a few people/countries voting their way, they will not have the power to end test cricket

no body is saying that BCCI will conciously attemtp to end test cricket.
it will be a natural phenomenon.......test team gets walloped badly allthe time, people lose interest, spoinsors lose interest..Hockey is such an example that lost favours in 1980s and was replaced by cricket.
.fans and sponsors focus on otehr forms such as ODIs and IPL...more triangular, quadrangualr tournaments of limited overs will crop up......and adminsitrators like BCCI merely will manage the fans interest and sponspors money.
and as we have seen in the last the aforemonetioned nations ( in my original post) will follow where Indian sponsorshipü money goes.
not that test matches will not be played...but for most professional cricketers seeking to make money out of the game...it will become the least consequential form of cricket.

Fists of Fury wrote:He's not getting one, he is simply getting 'owned' as they say these days, with pure facts and reasoning, which is the best way to deal with such people as they soon get shown to be rather silly.

where is the case that you went to put together...or rather listen to your cricketfan friend

Again, utter rubbish. Cricket does not revolve around India, in fact, it is the other countries that keep Test cricket alive by actually producing competitive Test wickets...not flat roads that allow India to score a big total before the other team collapses through sheer boredom.

England vs Australia, South Africa vs Australia, England vs South Africa - these are the Test series that people want to see, that possess the most competitive cricket in challenging conditions, and I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but India really aren't that important in the scheme of things.

Sure, it's nice to have a competitive Indian team, but we can cope fine without them, thanks very much.

V2, cut out the confrontational attitude please.

Wow, I didn't know moderators get to have side kicks.

Fists make me a moderator, I too want a side kick.

Unlocked and the guff removed from the thread.
Debate or ignore. But play nice without having a go please.

its ok i was just leaving!

I think he's confusing the slide of the Test cricket with the slide of Indian Test cricket in recent times.

There's plenty of interest still in the game and I'm sure India will rebuild and be there or thereabouts for a long time to come. It's great to see NZ and WI being more competitive of late - with their fans having something to look forward to in the future. And SL; with their win in SA will also produce new stars. So will India... no need to panic just yet.

I have seen the death of test cricket predicted a number of times over the past few years , without any coffins being produced ... and I do not think a slump in India's fortunes , even if it results in their descent to the middle ranks of the ICC table for a time , will prove fatal either. More likely it will cause a few changes internally, and eventually bring forth a new generation of stars who will engage future fans as those of recent years have celebrated the deeds of Tendulkar , Dravid etc...

There are however concerns at the relatively poor attendances at many Test matches outside England and Australia. Since SA for example have done pretty well but still don't fill their grounds it seems to have little to do with team success...

Seems to me the excessive (imho) amount of international limited over cricket being played has combined with the often fairly steep admission prices sought for Test Match days , and the easy availability of TV and internet access , to render the traditional "day at the cricket" an option which can be passed up. Plus I suppose if you can see a Tendulkar or a Ponting next week in a t20 bash somewhere anyway it doesn't have the same magic as taking the opportunity now rather than having to wait four years for another chance as our fathers did...

Does present some problems for administrators - perhaps they could start by accepting a lower take at the gate in some countries as a trade-off for more healthily filled grandstands? Bit of cross-subsidy from the ODI game?

Reckon the Test game has a few years in it yet.

Fists of Fury wrote:Again, utter rubbish. Cricket does not revolve around India, .

are you a human being or an Ostrich

Re: Test cricket will die if India loses 4-0
by Linebreaker Today at 9:19 am

.I think he's confusing the slide of the Test cricket with the slide of Indian Test cricket in recent times.


i think you are deluding yourself...that these are separate

Re: Test cricket will die if India loses 4-0
by alfie Today at 10:06 am

.I have seen the death of test cricket predicted a number of times over the past few years

Indian test cricket renassiance was keeping it alive and kicking and thriving.

ODIs and T20' and IPL subsidizes test cricket.........pays the 1000s of dollars per day fee that the commentaors, writers, critics, coaches and all feeding on cricket makes......and funds all the technology gizmo that is installed.

if it was only test cricket English cricketers wpould be travelling economy and staying in B&B on their tours and trips

and if India gives up test cricket....that,s where ONLY test criket followers ar heading to

I just had macaroni & cheese for supper, think I'll have a bath now.

I hope they lose 3-0 then.

India are well beaten, but the rest of the cricketing world can breathe easy because test cricket is safe.

To be perfectly honest, I hope India lose 4-0. Test Cricket won't die if it happens and hopefully the ICC will realise the BCCI aren't that powerful and stop meeting every demand they make *cough* DRS *cough*.

Personally, I'm looking forward to India shooting down the rankings.

Where is Anu_d when you need him?

[quote="Galted"]I just had macaroni & cheese for supper, think I'll have a bath now.[/quote]




I think a 4 - 0 win would be a very interesting outcome. Even more so if Australia have form and injury problems and need to bring in other players. Their depth and strength in back up would be much enhanced if they had comprehensively rolled over the indians.

A rejuvenated Aussie team would then face the West Indians away in the spring but with one of the most stupid schedules I've ever seen. However as the WI then shortly come and play England in some tests there would be comparisons to be appraised from their relative performances. So all interesting stuff in the coming months in test match cricket.

I had smoked salmon for tea and it along with some other food gave me indigestion. Perhaps tinned macaroni cheese might have been the better option.

v2 wrote:Re: Test cricket will die if India loses 4-0
by Linebreaker Today at 9:19 am

.I think he's confusing the slide of the Test cricket with the slide of Indian Test cricket in recent times.

i think you are deluding yourself...that these are separate

How so? There is plenty of cricket life beyond India you know. You need to get out more... open your winglets.

The fireworks were spectacular last night. I think the Indian team would have been impressed. I know Sachin loved it.

How so? There is plenty of cricket life beyond India you know

...true but subsidized by Indian sponsorship money.

Take the example of cricinfo.....pretty comprehensive reporting, live coverage galaxy of star writers and commentators.....Indian advertisement money largely.

all the ICC money for meeting in 5 star places around the world in hiring experts and investing in experimenting with technology.......you know offcourse where 80% of that money is coming from

I hardly read all 'the comprehensive reporting' on ESPN-Cricinfo - most of it's a load of bunkum.

Don't worry, the cricket world would survive nicely without all the overpriced ICC junkets. It's more important that we all use the same technology (like DRS) across all nations... wouldn't you agree? India can afford it surely?

Linebreaker wrote:I hardly read all 'the comprehensive reporting' on ESPN-Cricinfo - most of it's a load of bunkum.

Don't worry, the cricket world would survive nicely without all the overpriced ICC junkets. It's more important that we all use the same technology (like DRS) across all nations... wouldn't you agree? India can afford it surely?

offcourse India can affored it if logically / scientifically ( and not rhetorically) they are convinced that it works with consistency.

In my view of DRS problems..... especially on the Eng tour was the human ( 3rd umpire's interpretation) of the technology.

when there is no spot on the hot spot.....Dravid is still given out because ther 3rd umpire was "seeing" the deflection.
when the same happened with Pitersen ct. behind given by umpire.........the 3rd umpires overules it and makes it n.o because he didn't "see" the spot.

It appeared the that 3rd umpire was giving preference to visual deflections, hot spot and snickometer AT HIS DISCRETION to give the decision he wanted to give.

The human subjectivity is still their...and unfortunately for India...they were always at the recieving end of the human subjectivity when using technology to make the decision on that tour.

If I was BCCI and Dhoni I would more spcifically complain and ask for a very objective ruling of technology.......go with the hot spot verdict ALWAYS.......and not do the charade in the name of technology that they did with Dravid on the Eng tour.

Actually, Australian, English and Kiwi sides touring India, Pakistan and SL often had atrocious umpiring for decades it seemed. That was subjective umpiring at it's worst.

Human subjectivity will always be there to some degree; but I see your point if you feel India has been singled out. However, I don't agree that is the case. I sometimes feel Australia is unlucky (e.g. Hobart) but that's the way it is. NZ had cause for complaint too. We all grumble about it and move on. It usually evens out anyway. Just got to make sure the umpires are not 'influenced' in any way... but I'm pretty sure the ICC is doing it's honest best in appointing unbiased match umpires across all venues.

In Dravid's case - the 3rd umpire maybe 'saw' the deflection and in KP's case he did not. I don't think it was a conspiracy against India. It's the same situation (without DRS... as at the MCG) and the umpires still make obvious mistakes. I do believe that the extra technology does help to minimise these sorts of errors.

Also, we have developed the hotspot further - who knows... it may have picked up both of the above deflections - or only one and not the other.

v2 wrote:
when there is no spot on the hot spot.....Dravid is still given out because ther 3rd umpire was "seeing" the deflection.
when the same happened with Pitersen ct. behind given by umpire.........the 3rd umpires overules it and makes it n.o because he didn't "see" the spot.

I've been trying to avoid this discussion but the above is trying to create a problem where there isn't one. Dravid hit the ball (he has since admitted it and the deflection was clear from at least one camera angle) whereas Pietersen didn't (he hit his pad and missed the ball by about half a centimeter, daylight between bat and ball is clear). Both were correct decisions and good use of all available technology. Neither was a poor decision to start with, and in previous years (certainly in th 90s) because action replays were far fewer and far less clear neither would have raised any eyebrows. The fact that now we do have the technology to make these clearly difficult but equally clearly correct decisions is to be celebrated.

Hello there fists and all, v2 is not the official spokesperson for Indian cricket.
For your information, there are many Indian cricket supporters who are closely following test cricket, and are getting disappointed at the results.
But most of them are aware that a bunch of cricketers who on their own, managed many high points in test cricket, including the number 1 rank for a time period are on their way out, and legends of the game can't have ready replacements.
So although it is disappointing to lose test matches overseas, may be some of it has to be expected, all be it not on these scales.
It is quality test cricketers that most often adapt successfully to ODI cricket in different conditions. There may be a Yuvraj or a Beven from time to time, but that isn't the rule.
If you look at Indian FC cricket, there are tallented youngsters such as Cheteshwar Pujara, Ajinkya Rahane, Rohit Sharma, Manoj Tiwary, Abhinav Mukund, who all average in the late 50s or early 60s with the bat, and all of them have had a bit of a taste of international cricket.
There are untested youngsters like Ashok Menaria, who has shown a great big match temprament at a young age.
There are major problems that Indian cricket will have to front up to, but I don't think they will run away from test cricket.
I don't think the fans would welcome that either. people not only staied away from the WI test matches, the IPL TV ratings were poor last year, and neither the England ODI series nor the WI 1 saw grounds in India getting to full capasity.
India is set a number of home tests over the next couple of years, and their results should see an upswing during that period. Some of the youngsters should be able to establish themselves by then, and if Varun Aaron, Umesh Yadav, or Ishant Sharma develop enough to take over from Zaheer Khan, then thinks should be brighter for India.

MSP, thank God we have at least one sensible, objective Indian on board. I'd like to think your view was that of the majority, with the likes of v2 being sadly misinformed.

msp83 wrote:Hello there fists and all, v2 is not the official spokesperson for Indian cricket.
For your information, there are many Indian cricket supporters who are closely following test cricket, and are getting disappointed at the results.

India is set a number of home tests over the next couple of years, and their results should see an upswing during that period. Some of the youngsters should be able to establish themselves by then, and if Varun Aaron, Umesh Yadav, or Ishant Sharma develop enough to take over from Zaheer Khan, then thinks should be brighter for India.

msp83 wrote:Hello there fists and all, v2 is not the official spokesperson for Indian cricket.
For your information, there are many Indian cricket supporters who are closely following test cricket, and are getting disappointed at the results.
But most of them are aware that a bunch of cricketers who on their own, managed many high points in test cricket, including the number 1 rank for a time period are on their way out, and legends of the game can't have ready replacements.
So although it is disappointing to lose test matches overseas, may be some of it has to be expected, all be it not on these scales.
It is quality test cricketers that most often adapt successfully to ODI cricket in different conditions. There may be a Yuvraj or a Beven from time to time, but that isn't the rule.
If you look at Indian FC cricket, there are tallented youngsters such as Cheteshwar Pujara, Ajinkya Rahane, Rohit Sharma, Manoj Tiwary, Abhinav Mukund, who all average in the late 50s or early 60s with the bat, and all of them have had a bit of a taste of international cricket.
There are untested youngsters like Ashok Menaria, who has shown a great big match temprament at a young age.
There are major problems that Indian cricket will have to front up to, but I don't think they will run away from test cricket.
I don't think the fans would welcome that either. people not only staied away from the WI test matches, the IPL TV ratings were poor last year, and neither the England ODI series nor the WI 1 saw grounds in India getting to full capasity.
India is set a number of home tests over the next couple of years, and their results should see an upswing during that period. Some of the youngsters should be able to establish themselves by then, and if Varun Aaron, Umesh Yadav, or Ishant Sharma develop enough to take over from Zaheer Khan, then thinks should be brighter for India.

good to see msp that indians care about test cricket...i think v2 is just trying to stir up a bit of unneeded conflict.

Mike Selig wrote:

v2 wrote:
when there is no spot on the hot spot.....Dravid is still given out because ther 3rd umpire was "seeing" the deflection.
when the same happened with Pitersen ct. behind given by umpire.........the 3rd umpires overules it and makes it n.o because he didn't "see" the spot.

I've been trying to avoid this discussion but the above is trying to create a problem where there isn't one. Dravid hit the ball
(he has since admitted it and the deflection was clear from at least one camera angle) whereas Pietersen didn't (he hit his pad and missed the ball by about half a centimeter, daylight between bat and ball is clear).




Both were correct decisions and good use of all available technology. Neither was a poor decision to start with, and in previous years (certainly in th 90s) because action replays were far fewer and far less clear neither would have raised any eyebrows. The fact that now we do have the technology to make these clearly difficult but equally clearly correct decisions is to be celebrated.

Dravid admitted one time and another time he admitted that he hadn not hit it.
batsman's admission is besides the point....is it was so simple, simply ask the batsman and make the decision

the umpire adjudictaing looked at the similar situations and using technology cam out with diffrent decisions.
and shockingly the umpire arbitarily picked one snicko, hotspot and visual examination to suit the decision he wanted to give......i,e one that was against India

msp83 wrote:Hello there fists and all, v2 is not the official spokesperson for Indian cricket.

Don't be so sure my friend.
Most of my posts echo the official stance of BCCI on things whether spoken or implict.

I might be officially appointed by BCCI as their unofficial spokesman to explain their stands and POVs on the forums

my left armpit was quite itchy. gave it a bit of a scratch. it's ok now. think I'll watch channel Dave.

Is your dislike of the DRS system based on two decisions that were actually quite correctly made?

4th Jan'play at SCG confirmed our worst fears.......India's downhillslide has started.
just like in Eng ...they could have drawn the first test at Lords, ended up loing and went down from there...
the MCG test match was as close as they would come to winning on this tour......and the downhill slide started on 4th Jan when a good bowling attack was plundered on a bowler friendly pitch.........barring some sehwagish/ laxmansque miracles...this tour appears falling gravitaionally downward....

and with another 4-0 whitewash.........there are very few fans who would want to follow their test teams embarrasement
and hence few sponsors will put their money

so far IPL DEPENDED on test stars.
when there are no test stars from india...ODI stars will replace them...
and IPL will create it's own stars......and thouhg the IPL and oDI bred stars will not be competitive in international tests......it won't matter.

the center of "considred" excellence will move from test matches to limited over formats...because that is where sponsors money will be.

MAKE NO MISTAKES it is the sponsors money that drives cricket.....
and test cricket will not go extinct...but will take the same relevance as T20 internationals have today.

It's coming.....it's the very near future....the old order has changed.

Sponsors aren't as fickle as you.

The big Indian Corporations will still see Indian cricket in all it's formats as one of their biggest products to use for advertising themeselves on a global scale.

I infer from this post that you think India is already 2-0 down and that will cause them to be nervous and 3-0 will become 4-0.

The joy to me of test cricket is that a draw can sometimes feel like a win. When I explain to people in Spain that a match can last five days and no result can come of that and a side or both sides can feel good about that makes no sense to them. So India are behind in this match and batting second to save a match is one of the toughest asks in cricket. But that doesn't mean it can't happen. Imagine if India do fight back to save this test. The Aussies feel they let a great chance to claim another victory slip from their hands and India feel that they are in the ascendancy coming into the third match.

Instead of being a fan commenting on gloom and doom, how about asking for some fight from your players. Test cricket with its ranking system is very much alive even though the shorter version is more appealing to a broader base. But those who love the game know that test cricket is what it's all about. India too will recognise that for all their one day trophies or individual records in the short version of the game count for nothing if you´re no good at the long version of the game.

That may work if you´re a Black Caps fan but it won't wash with fans of India who breathe and live cricket. Test cricket might well die for you if India lose 4-0 but it certainly won´t die for the people who truly care about cricket.

At the current rate of progress, with India almost certain to go 3 - 0 down tomorrow the opportunity to find out whether the original post is correct may well arise!

I'm assuming the OP means something more like "Test cricket will take a severe blow (in India) if India loses 4-0"

As we all know - Test cricket will never "die"

Getting pretty hard to see anything other than a 4-0 result , barring unseasonal rain in Adelaide , so the original contention may indeed be tested soon enough...

Somehow I think the oldest form of the international game will stagger along for a few years yet.

(In a perverse way , the heavy defeat may serve to force more attention to the longer forms of the game on the Indian establishment , and - perhaps after a few years - a new set of players who can bring Indian cricket back to the top of the Test ladder , with a resultant surge in enthusiasm among supporters on the way?)

Which is a long winded way of saying "It is cyclical..."

3-0 now. The Border-Gavasker Trophy returns to Australia!

Surely there'll have to make more changes for Adelaide now... India that is.

Agree Alfie. BCCI simply has to pour more resources into the longer form of the game; try out some new talent and stick with them for a few series.

It's cyclical for all teams not just India but I guess they will be feeling like Australia did a year or so ago. They must do what Australia did too and they can climb back up in a few years if things go well for them.

There is actually nothing wrong with the current India Test Team. It is just that Australia are just playing amazing cricket at the moment and if they keep this current standard of play up, I do fear for even the likes of England in the next ashes test series between the two countries (1989 all over again when the likes of Alderman took 41 wickets, Mark Taylor scored over 900 runs and Steve Waugh was like a brick wall!)

I think that India, well half of this team has reached the end of the road . They should take this probable 4 - 0 defeat and in the last 6 months 8 - 0 shellacking as the time to move on from the old guard.

They have all year to think about new players and start afresh. Perhaps by then jaded fans like the OP will have some enthusiasm for test cricket.

But like I said before, there is nothing wrong with the current India test team. It is just that Australia are playing amazing cricket which can overwhelm even the likes of England.

gboycottnut wrote:But like I said before, there is nothing wrong with the current India test team. It is just that Australia are playing amazing cricket which can overwhelm even the likes of England.

this was the same australia team that were bowled out for 47 against SA 2 months ago and also lost to NZ at home for the first time for about 40 years or something last month

they have also shown vulnerabilities in their batting in this series and have always looked capable of a collapse and still have issues over how to replace ponting and hussey and will also have to replace haddin soon imo

yes they look to have a good pool of seam bowling to pick from but india have been so bad with the bat in this series then you cant really tell just how good they really are. hilfenhaus and siddle looked very very average a year ago against us and have looked like world beaters here

sorry but there is alot wrong with this india team and that has made australia look better then they are