Margarito Invades Cotto Press Conference - Rematch Inevitable? Who Wins?

Here is a link to the cotto - mayorga post fight conference. Skip forward to 6:00 at the point manny steward is asked about margarito. Bob Arum then wastes no time in allowing margarito to materialise from thin air to join the conference. Don King can be seen and heard applauding this obvious public ploy to start fuelling the fire - a trick he himself would be proud of. Despite Arum asking cotto "I hope you dont mind miguel", Cotto looks less than impressed to see marg there.

http://thewellversed.com/2011/03/13/video-antonio-margarito-invades-miguel-cotto-post-fight-press-conference-rematch-inevitable/

It seems that these two are on an inevitable collision course. Having both been battered by manny they are second fiddle at Top Rank now, especially with rising stars like Donaire and Juanma on the books. Marg still has the notoriety, cotto has been eased back in a world champ position since manny, with two highly winnable matches put his way. Arums stunt here shows that he only has one thing in mind for them - a second fight, probably in the summer.

So who wins? Well I'd love to say Cotto, he's a classy warrior who takes on the best, excites the crowd, has great fundamental skill and is a humble guy outside the ring. I'm 100% convinced marg was using loaded gloves in the first fight, but of course that can never be proven now - redemption is all that is left for cotto and I can see him wanting this win more than any in his career. But I dont think he'll get it. I think margs relentless pressure style is all wrong for cotto, who seems to lose his gameplan under pressure and when hurt. Also marg is naturally bigger and stronger and is incredibly durable - cotto couldnt hurt him at 147 so at 154 where he looks a small fighter I dont see him being able to keep marg at bay. Both guys have lost something since that first fight, but I'd see a second going more or less the same way - cotto boxing clever early and winning rounds, only to succumb to margs pressure, workrate and physical strength as the fight wears on. It could be a fight of two halves - theres no way on earth margarito gets stopped but if cotto can hear the final bell then he could win the decision if he boxes clever enough - which with steward in his corner is more likely. But I'd edge towards another late stoppage win for marg (unfortunately). Styles make fights, and marg is just not a good opponent for cotto IMO.

https://2img.net/h/i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h361/lowki07/plaster-of-paris1289497896.jpg?t=1300089442

This fight has to happen, it will answer the question about Marg's previous use of handwraps.

I think marg wins by ko again unfortunately. Don't want to see cotto beaten up he is one of my favourite fighters.

D4thincarnation wrote:https://2img.net/h/i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h361/lowki07/plaster-of-paris1289497896.jpg?t=1300089442

This fight has to happen, it will answer the question about Marg's previous use of handwraps.

That question will never be answered I dont think D4. This will be two different versions of the fighters that met 3 years beforehand. Even if marg beats cotto fair and square now it doesnt prove anything about it being fair back then - thats the problem with marg being exposed, it casts doubts on all his previous achievements.

My not prove anything 100% but it will be a huge indicator.

http://www.boxingscene.com/antonio-margarito-admits-miguel-cotto-improved--37039

Marg also thinks that Cotto has improve, and he has tactically and technically.

Cotto all the way, especially with Manny (Steward) in his corner. Both are past it, but the beatings Marg took from SSM and Pac indicates that he is on a fast slope downhill.

Marg was drained against Mosley and had the controversy with the handwraps playing on his mind, and there is no shame in losing to Pacquiao.

Another excuse to big up a Pacquiao win...

BALTIMORA wrote:Another excuse to big up a Pacquiao win...

Come on now, for you own sake give your obsession a rest.

D4thincarnation wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Another excuse to big up a Pacquiao win...

Come on now, for you own sake give your obsession a rest.

Post of the day. 45 minutes to see who can top that one.

Personally, I thought that D4's claim earlier today that someone voting for Mayweather as pound for pound number one was akin to someone voting for the BNP already had the 'post of the day' title sewn up.

88Chris05 wrote:Personally, I thought that D4's claim earlier today that someone voting for Mayweather as pound for pound number one was akin to someone voting for the BNP already had the 'post of the day' title sewn up.

Perhaps someone can regurtitate certain posts and we all vote for it.

But he said that? I must admit reading some posts here make me laugh no end.

Any thoughts on cotto margarito II guys? I think we've all heard enough on manny floyd for one day.

Alot would depend on whether you think Margarito was loaded at the time.

Cotto was outboxing him in the first half before essentially getting worn down by the bigger man. If his wraps were illegal then this would have a large bearing.

With that said, I would expect lightmiddel to suit Margarito even more. Cottos weakness in this match up is that he too easy to hit. If he could stick to just trying to box Margarito and keep it smart then Id fancy him to take the decision. If he gets dragged into a war then it suits Margarito.

I think if Cotto failed to beat Margarito in a rematch it would be a bad reflection on him because at the end of the day Margarito is pretty limited and really only relies on wearing out his opponents in attrition style tactics. A guy look Cotto should be able to outbox him in the skill department.

Well there zero chance of his gloves being loaded if they fight again.

But depending how the fight goes with Cotto will give a real idea if he was using them in the first fight. e.g if he marks up Cotto's face again.

But Cotto will be a lot more ring savy this time round but the weight may favour Marg more.

I actually think that Cotto wins a rematch, even though he's not the fighter he was three or four years ago. I think Margarito seems to have lost more both physically and mentally since their 2008 meeting, and even after the first fight I always felt that Cotto beats him more often than not - that fight was just one of those 'not' instances.

Having Steward in his corner will be a massive boost, too. Steward has a knack for improving fighters who are vulnerable to constant pressure, and I reckon if Cotto boxes a more disciplined fight he takes this one on the cards.

I would go for Cotto too, he has gain a lot of experience since they last fight and will be able to deal with the pressure from Marg this time round, but will still be a close fight.

Cotto UD by 2-4 rounds

D4thincarnation wrote:I would go for Cotto too, he has gain a lot of experience since they last fight and will be able to deal with the pressure from Marg this time round, but will still be a close fight.

Cotto UD by 2-4 rounds

The reason I go for Cotto is because Marg has deteriorated more and also I reckon his gloves were loaded in their first fight. Marg is a Rocky Marciano type fighter but with better footwork. Just sheer attrition and not much more.

Both Cotto and Margarito had decent spells against Pacquiao. Marge actually looked pretty lithe, he was rushing around the ring as he does normally, throwing bunches of punches. He took a few big shots, looked a bit worse for wear, but the chin held up. In his recent performances Cotto has impressed me, near perfect displays. Looked cool as a cucumber against Mayorga, despite regular moments of pressure and boxing a crazy man. Controlled the fight from start to finish. They could both appear in more top level fights.

Cotto was a stones throw from beating Margarito last time. With Steward in his corner he can improve and put on a similar display to the first contest, but for the whole 12 rounds.

D4thincarnation wrote:Marg was drained against Mosley and had the controversy with the handwraps playing on his mind, and there is no shame in losing to Pacquiao.

Oh what a surprise, making excuses for a previous loss that a Pacquaio victim suffered

Margarito had never struggled to make weight before, then suddenly trying to cheat is an excuse for a loss. Fact of the matter is Mosley would always have had too much handspeed for Margarito.

How can people say Cotto is past it?

Personally I think the way Arum stage-managed the post-fight conference to have Margarito be there to take the stage is despicable. It highlights exactly how amoral a person Arum is. Here's Margarito who-after spending only a year suspended for what could have been a career-ending offence for his opponent-is pushed into the limelight for one of the least-deserved shots in a mega-fight. He's now being paraded around at the Cotto post-fight presser so as to highlight the animosity angle of a possible rematch. The look on Cotto's face in the photograph accompanying the linked article says all anyone needs to know about his thoughts on the matter.

The whole thing stinks, to be frank. No doubt Cotto will be persuaded to take on the rematch, when in reality what he ought (in my opinion) to do is refuse anything to do with a proven cheat such as Margarito. Why should Cotto engage in anything that could benefit Margarito?

I've said it before and I'll reiterate it: regardless of the good things Arum may have done for Cotto's career, it seems more and more evident that Arum hasn't the slightest genuine concern for Cotto, or indeed any of his stable. I'm sure for every act Arum committed which benefited Cotto's career, it benefited Arum twice as much.

Lastly; people who try to make excuses for Margarito's loss to Mosley are surely only detracting from Mosley's win in that fight. Either Mosley proved his mettle by beating a younger, tough, dangerous opponent, OR he only beat the guy because Margarito was not fighting at his full effectiveness. Either way it makes ONE of these two look like a poor opponent choice for the Filipino.

Balti - totally agree with you on arum. I think in Cotto he sees he has a popular but disposable fighter and is treating him as such. Marg is a known shadow on cotto's career. The fact that he would parade marg in front of Cotto to steal cottos thunder after one of his big wins shows the lack of respect arum has for Cotto. Arum knows exactly what marg got caught doing, and he knows just how the inference of handwraps being used in the Cotto fight exists among boxing writers and fans. Rather than dump marg, he chooses to exploit the situation and an honest pro in Cotto. No doubt the second fight will be given some sort of 'redemption' tag-line. The guy is a snake, him and marg deserve each other, I only hope Cotto batters margs ugly, jimmy hill chinned smug face to a pulp.

I agree completely with how you think the fight would go SBS, as much as everyone would like it I can't see the result changing.

SBS - I genuinely liked Margarito after the Cotto win, because in all honesty without the shadow of loaded gloves it was a fantastic win, and a great match to watch too. Since then though, with the handwraps scandal, and the way in which Arum seems hell-bent on milking the whole situation still further, I really don't think Margarito deserves his license (no doubt bought by uncle Bob), much less the high level of exposure and opportunities he's having.

The punishment Margarito got was not severe enough for me and was pretty tame, not sure how it sends out a message to deter people in the future, could actually encourage it in some situations, Margarito should not be allowed to make any more money from this sport. In saying that would love to see Cotto smash him and would be a good fight i think.

At least both fighters can fight at full weight and not fight for a title at a catch-weight.

The Galveston Giant wrote:The punishment Margarito got was not severe enough for me and was pretty tame, not sure how it sends out a message to deter people in the future, could actually encourage it in some situations, Margarito should not be allowed to make any more money from this sport. In saying that would love to see Cotto smash him and would be a good fight i think.

For a moment I thought you meant the physical punishment he took against the trypanophobic congressman. I thought you were some kind of bloodythirsty savage! In seriousness though, you make a good point about the message sent out to anyone considering cheating and endangering the life of an opponent. While I'd like to see Cotto gain some kind of closure and vengeance, that wish is contrasted by the fact that I'd like to see Margarito punished much more severely than he has been.

Cynically Arum is selling Margarito back to the public on the 'redemption' tag. We saw Margarito take a beating from Pacquiao, and now if he is to fight Cotto then image-wise he's in a win-win situation. Beat Cotto and Margarito can say "see-I beat him legitimately first time, and I did it again". Lose to Cotto and Margarito will be flogged as having paid a penance.

Disgustingly mercenary money-making from the Top Rank head honcho.

Completely agree BALTIMORA,

The post fight conference is Cotto's and any winning fighter's earned right to get praise and answer questions etc.....NOT for that rat Arum to parade one of his fighters, especially when there is animosity between the two fighters.

I truly think Arum doesn't care about any of his guys as long as he makes money. I know you could say that with anyone but I really think he's slime Arum.

As soon as Manny retires he'll latch on to someone else and within a few years proclaim he's the greatest fighter ever as he's done numerous times throughout his career.

Totally agree Baltimora and Valero

For the sake of argument, if Margarito was to face Cotto again and in the process, subjected him to a beating that was a repeat of their first fight (including the facial injuries), would people then retract their earlier statements that Marg had loaded gloves first time around and perhaps consider the possibility that Cotto just marks up very, very easily?

It is a hard one Dave667,

If it is a fairly similar outcome then it will be harder to argue Marg did load his gloves for the first fight and perhaps puts more merit into his first win.

We'll never really know if the loaded gloves were a one off with the Mosley and therefore means he has never had loaded gloves in a fight or if he had done it before.

The only thing that is known is that he DID try and do it and therefore he deserves all the criticism he gets and maybe deserves people to say he only beat Cotto due to loaded gloves.

DAVE667 wrote:For the sake of argument, if Margarito was to face Cotto again and in the process, subjected him to a beating that was a repeat of their first fight (including the facial injuries), would people then retract their earlier statements that Marg had loaded gloves first time around and perhaps consider the possibility that Cotto just marks up very, very easily?

This is why I initially thought the Cotto win was a great one for Margarito. After watching the Pacquiao fight it's fair to say that Cotto DOES mark up quite easily, around the lips and mouth especially. I think the problem lies in the fact that Margarito WAS caught with loaded gloves, and for that reason alone he shouldn't be allowed to be given the big-money opportunities he is. It's simply bad enough that Margarito would consider it OK to load his wraps, irrespective of which opponent he did it against. The only mitigating factor I can find from the Cotto fight is that regardless of whether or not his gloves were plastered, Margarito DID ship an awful lot of big shots in the first half of the fight, and his chin most certainly wasn't loaded. Just a bit Forsyth-esque.

The only thing that is known is that he DID try and do it and therefore he deserves all the criticism he gets and maybe deserves people to say he only beat Cotto due to loaded gloves.
************************************************************
Sadly, there's no proof whatsoever that margarito loaded his gloves/wraps for the Cotto fight. Bit like saying any woman who accused Mike Tyson of rape must have a valid case as Mike was previously convicted of it. Doesn't make it true I'm afraid however much you'd like to believe it

Dave I think he means that Margarito DID try the loaded gloves (for Mosley), and for that reason deserves to have people question the Cotto win.

Hence my reason for saying that legally you'd be on very thin ice and certainly run the risk of being sued for libel/slander as you'd have to have solid proof rather than opinion on what happened subsequently.

Billy Bloggs breaks into a house by greasing himself up and climbing through the cat flap. He's caught in commision this offence and convicted. It later comes to light that a week previously, another house in the area was broken into where the thief entered through the cat flap with the aid of grease.

However, despite the striking similarities to the other burglary there happens to be absolutley no physical evidence specifically linking Billy to this offence. Could he be convicted at a criminal court for it?

The answer is a resounding "No" and the only place Margarito has been tried and convicted for using loaded gloves/wraps against Cotto is in the Court of Public Opinion.

Its never been proven that Margarito knew about the wraps. It could have been the coaches idea, the burdon of proof hasn't been met even for the Mosely fight. No one identifyed Marge as knowing and glove wrapping is quite complex, just before a fight when pure focus is a must - would he even notice? I've never had a problem with Marge in or outside the ring, doesn't come across disreputably. I'd say it would be out of character.

A rematch might be good for both of them a chance to move their careers on to another step. Marge may appear a much larger opponent, but Cotto landed more punches in the first match it was very close. If he tweaks his performance a bit no reason why he can't win. Must be worth some bank as well. I'd like to see Margarito continue at LMW, he could fight Angulo, Alvarez or Dzinziruk. He's not especially old, still could offer something to the game.

ArchBritishchris wrote:Its never been proven that Margarito knew about the wraps. It could have been the coaches idea, the burdon of proof hasn't been met even for the Mosely fight. No one identifyed Marge as knowing and glove wrapping is quite complex, just before a fight when pure focus is a must - would he even notice? I've never had a problem with Marge in or outside the ring, doesn't come across disreputably. I'd say it would be out of character.

A rematch might be good for both of them a chance to move their careers on to another step. Marge may appear a much larger opponent, but Cotto landed more punches in the first match it was very close. If he tweaks his performance a bit no reason why he can't win. Must be worth some bank as well. I'd like to see Margarito continue at LMW, he could fight Angulo, Alvarez or Dzinziruk. He's not especially old, still could offer something to the game.

You can't be serious suggesting that he may not have known about the wraps

Margarito is as much to blame for the hand wraps against Mosley as his trainer, it simply doesn't hold up to scrutinisation that a fighter would not know that his hand are being covered in an illegal substance. It is a ludicrous notion to suggest he didn't know what was going on.

Before the Pacquiao fight, Marge stated that he was taking the fight on to try and regain the admiration of the fans. Thats his career goal now. A fight with Cotto, with the gloves checked beforehand, would be one way of doing that. It didn't help him any in the Pacquiao fight, so may not change the verdict.

Dave I know what you're saying, but i do think it's fair to say Marg shouldn't be surprised if people question his win over Cotto. There's nothing illegal about speculating, if done correctly.

As for Chris implying Margarito was without all knowledge-that implies someone either very naive or very much a liar.

Archbritchris: Its never been proven that Margarito knew about the wraps. It could have been the coaches idea, the burdon of proof hasn't been met even for the Mosely fight. No one identifyed Marge as knowing and glove wrapping is quite complex, just before a fight when pure focus is a must - would he even notice? I've never had a problem with Marge in or outside the ring, doesn't come across disreputably. I'd say it would be out of character.
-------
Total and utter nonsense. Every single other fighter and trainer I've ever seen asked about this have all said "of course he would have known". A boxers hands are the tools of his trade, he knows what goes on them, it's his responsibility to know if nothing else, to suggest otherwise is pure folly. But didn't you suggest him having illegal handwraps was making it safer for his opponent on the old 606? Think we know where your loyalty lays on this one.

DAVE667: of course nothing can be proven about marg re: the Cotto fight, but there is a difference between outright accusing him as in the analogies you use, and suggesting his previous achievements should be viewed with suspicion. He has form. Getting caught red handed against mosley has cast an enormous shadow of doubt over his achievements, and that is part of the penalty he has to pay for being exposed in attempting to cheat.

How do you know he knew about the wraps? What evidence? An errant coach and no witness/ evidence stating Marge was aware - could provide reasonable doubt. Its something we don't know about, just accusation and speculation. Somebody could be accused of a terrible crime, doesn't mean they are guilty. I'm looking at the evidence thats available. None of us are professional boxers or coaching staff. We cannot claim to be absolute experts on hand wrapping, the camps techniques, the coaches, etc. There are number of different variables and people here 1000s of miles away, can't claim absolute knowledge as to what happened in Marge's dressing room before the fight.

Chris stop being so naively stupid, of course he knew what was being put onto his hands, to suggest otherwise is pure ignorance.

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Every single other fighter and trainer I've ever seen asked about this have all said "of course he would have known". A boxers hands are the tools of his trade, he knows what goes on them, it's his responsibility to know if nothing else, to suggest otherwise is pure folly. But didn't you suggest him having illegal handwraps was making it safer for his opponent on the old 606? Think we know where your loyalty lays on this one.

Exactly right.

Margarito fighting Cotto again and beating him does absolutely nothing to take away the idea he had his hands wrapped for the first Cotto fight, in the same way it does not prove he did have them on first time if Cotto beats him. It's like saying look i'm fighting now, and look my hands aren't wrapped in plaster, and then everybody applauding him and saying well done mate for not cheating, we embrace you again, he's made his bed he will lie in it. Fans who haven't forgiven him by now never will, no matter who he fights in the future.

You never get a sensible answer on this site about this question, so i'll just leave it at that. 'Must have known' isn't an evidence based statement, its not even heresay. Who was in his dressing room, where is the witness, the photo - the actual evidence? Is there not reasonable doubt, or a shadow of a doubt? Does he need to prove his innocence or the reverse?

This is not an ethical or legal website, people aren't going to care about the ins and out of the criminal justice system or burdon of proof. But, lets not just condemn people for claiming someone may be innocent. Thats a bit news of the world and not a logic based argument either. Its a method of conformism, people often take in ideas from the media without critically analysing them. Anytime, a murder case is on TV it stirrs people up and they cease to care about the details.

I'll probably save the debate for philosophy and legal websites. But, I maintain its never been proven. Could have been his coaching staff, why not Garcia. Marge has always seemed a fairly ok chap in interviews, relcutant to condemn him without the full facts.

I agree with the majority that there's justification for being suspicious but when people go further and practically accuse him of cheating against Cotto, that's when they being to look a bit silly.

I agree that Marg would have to have been incredibly unfortunate to have got caught the very first time they tried illegally wrapping his hands and there's every likelihood that they'd tried it before but this restrospective defaming of people is rife at the moment.

Most people now belive John Terry has spent most his adult life cheating on his wife and sleeping with the ex girlfriend's of team-mates based on ONE incident.

The cold hard truth is that we don't know, can't know and probably will NEVER know.

BTW , should these two fight again, maybe Margarito would agree to having his hands wrapped via closed circuit TV so everyone in the arena and at home can see exactly what's going on...thus leaving Cotto free to wrap his hands in mercury soaked bandages!

The Galveston Giant wrote:It's like saying look i'm fighting now, and look my hands aren't wrapped in plaster, and then everybody applauding him and saying well done mate for not cheating, we embrace you again

Exactly. It's as though Margarito will be expecting a pat on the back for doing what is expected of every boxer ordinarily. Preposterous.

Sorry Chris but your showing yourself up on this, i've had my hands wrapped and you notice straight away when there is the tiniest difference and to even have the audacity to suggest that profressional didn't know he was having plaster of paris applied to his hands is beyond belief. He was proved of wrong doing by the comission and will subsequently be thought of as a vile human being who caught attempting to cheat. Ignorance is never an excuse.