Wlad K

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Why does he split opinions so much. Sure he's been levelled and his chin has been found wanting. He's not the most exciting boxer either. Very safety, jab jab jab jab until the opponent goes to sleep along with a non German crowd. But damn, he is very effective at what he does.

He reminds me of Lewis but a slightly better boxer. Better jab and equally concussive puncher when he decides to unleash the right. Many may say that his opposition is not up to much. But a certain ATG HW had a bum of the month contest and not many seem to hold that against him. Also Lewis has been sparked out twice, yet many seem to ignore that and claim Wlad is chinny. His opposition is on par with Lewis also. Its not as though he's fighting blown up LHW who got beat by a welterweight or past it HWs. He's fighting abd beating the best available with ease.

If he were British or american, would we rate him higher? In terms of achievement, I'd rank him in the top 10/top 15 ATG Heavyweights.

What say you?

Imperial Ghosty wrote:You also have to consider that McCall has one of if not the best chin in boxing, it's going to take a prolonged beating to put him away hands up or down, he was expecting shots at all times whereas Ortiz was not.

Point taken and considered. But watch the fight and Lewis didn't unload at all. He didn't throw KO punches. He stayed behind the jab. Admittedly it must have been confusing for Lewis to see a fighter break down like that. But still he should have went for the KO.

I personally don't think he should have, such a unique situation that I don't think you can use compassion against someone.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Lewis would have Haye out of there in a few rounds max.

Yep. He would. He'd wait until Haye got tired of running or slowed down a little. Easy night for Lewis.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I personally don't think he should have, such a unique situation that I don't think you can use compassion against someone.

I dont believe it was compassion whatsoever. More confusion.

You can see him looking at the ref throughout very reluctant to throw anything, think it was a combination of the two.

My opinion is that he should have put him away or at least try to.

I would say both too, the fans certainly felt both so i feel Lewis would also.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:He was ranked around the 6/7 mark prior to Lewis and afterwards it increased.

Tua and a shot Tyson may be lacking in many areas but to Lewis they are more dangerous fighters to face as you would expect both to knock him out if they catch him cleanly but you wouldn't expect that from Vitali.

As to the point about Grant being scared of being hit, don't make me laugh he could have stayed down against Golota and a lot sooner against Lewis if that was the case.

Grant got knocked down by the mighty Jameel Mcline in the first punch of their fight, Grant had a glass jaw, he could get up, but he was just put on his backside again. Mediocre fighter at best with no chin. Actually Vitali was the no.1 ranked heavyweight and was supposed to be Lewis' mandatory as Johnson was no.2, that's why it was the best fight that could be made. I had HBO video links i could show you if you like. I have no idea at all how you got Vitali being ranked 6th or 7th

You're thinking of the WBC organisational rankings which don't mean a great deal, at the end of 2002 he was ranked number 7 by the ring magazine and had no further fights until the Lewis one so his ranking is unlikely to have increased to one with them.

A glass jaw sees a fighter knocked out not knocked, big difference which i'm guessing you don't understand, thing is the 90's heavyweight scene is what I grew up with so know what the perceptions of each fighter Lewis fought were, Grant, Golota, Tua, Ruddock and Briggs were highly rated while Vitali was not.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:As it is with every heavyweight, the major point being the heavyweight division is historically poor and Lewis' right hand is right up there.

There are tiers of power as far as I see it

Foreman and Shavers

Tyson, Dempsey and Louis

Lewis, Liston and Frazier

Mercer said Morrison and Wlad were harder punches than Lewis. Lewis was a solid hard puncher but his power never blew me away, it was usually a combination rather than a spectacular Tysonesque one punch ko.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:You're thinking of the WBC organisational rankings which don't mean a great deal, at the end of 2002 he was ranked number 7 by the ring magazine and had no further fights until the Lewis one so his ranking is unlikely to have increased to one with them.

A glass jaw sees a fighter knocked out not knocked, big difference which i'm guessing you don't understand, thing is the 90's heavyweight scene is what I grew up with so know what the perceptions of each fighter Lewis fought were, Grant, Golota, Tua, Ruddock and Briggs were highly rated while Vitali was not.

Fair enough but almost all of the guys you mentioned are American and thus fought in America so would be overly hyped up. Vitali didn't move over to America until 2002/2003? and was already a world champion back in 1999, but probably the first and only time a lot of fan's would have watched him was on HBO against Byrd when he pulled out. Tua was well known for a devastating ko of another American in Ruiz but hadn't really done much else except throw a million punches in losing to Ibeabuchi.

Tyson was very much a combination knock out artist too, Lewis set it up with the left before finishing it with his right, the amount of clean knockouts he scored is far more impressive than Wlad especially against their respective opposition.

monty junior wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:You're thinking of the WBC organisational rankings which don't mean a great deal, at the end of 2002 he was ranked number 7 by the ring magazine and had no further fights until the Lewis one so his ranking is unlikely to have increased to one with them.

A glass jaw sees a fighter knocked out not knocked, big difference which i'm guessing you don't understand, thing is the 90's heavyweight scene is what I grew up with so know what the perceptions of each fighter Lewis fought were, Grant, Golota, Tua, Ruddock and Briggs were highly rated while Vitali was not.

Fair enough but almost all of the guys you mentioned are American and thus fought in America so would be overly hyped up. Vitali didn't move over to America until 2002/2003? and was already a world champion back in 1999, but probably the first and only time a lot of fan's would have watched him was on HBO against Byrd when he pulled out. Tua was well known for a devastating ko of another American in Ruiz but hadn't really done much else except throw a million punches in losing to Ibeabuchi.

Vitalis 'world title' was the WBO which played absolutely no part in the 90's and early 2000's heavyweight scene, no one cared about it at the time, it wasn't until he beat Sanders that he was considered a fully fledged world champion.

Just saying from a guy's point of view that has fought them both. Maybe a bit pointless but Vitali said Lewis wasn't a hard puncher but was very heavy which sapped all his energy as 50% of the fight he just leaned on larger opponents. Perfectly within the rules and i understand why people would take what VK says with a pinch of salt.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

monty junior wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:You're thinking of the WBC organisational rankings which don't mean a great deal, at the end of 2002 he was ranked number 7 by the ring magazine and had no further fights until the Lewis one so his ranking is unlikely to have increased to one with them.

A glass jaw sees a fighter knocked out not knocked, big difference which i'm guessing you don't understand, thing is the 90's heavyweight scene is what I grew up with so know what the perceptions of each fighter Lewis fought were, Grant, Golota, Tua, Ruddock and Briggs were highly rated while Vitali was not.

Fair enough but almost all of the guys you mentioned are American and thus fought in America so would be overly hyped up. Vitali didn't move over to America until 2002/2003? and was already a world champion back in 1999, but probably the first and only time a lot of fan's would have watched him was on HBO against Byrd when he pulled out. Tua was well known for a devastating ko of another American in Ruiz but hadn't really done much else except throw a million punches in losing to Ibeabuchi.

Vitalis 'world title' was the WBO which played absolutely no part in the 90's and early 2000's heavyweight scene, no one cared about it at the time, it wasn't until he beat Sanders that he was considered a fully fledged world champion.

My point was comparing those guys on the list to Vitali is pointless. How many people would have followed Klitschko's career in Germany compared to all the various cannon fodder from America hyped up to face Lewis. Grant faced nobody, until Golota, lucky to survive round 1 then got a TKO when Golota quit because he wasn't quite right in the head. Briggs beat nobody besides Foreman which was a robbery, Ruddock? hype job. Tua had power but was just a one trick pony, Golota was a nut.

Waingro wrote:

rowley wrote:Waingro for the love of god stop describing every victory as a destruction, Lewis beat Vitali on cuts whilst behind on the cards, a legitimate win but by no means does it constitute destroying him.

Look at Vitalis face mate it was completely bashed up and shredded from Lewis that shows how badly destroyed he was. He was very lucky they stopped it when they did or else he was going to get knocked out badly by Lewis who was getting stronger in the fight. Lets not forget this was Lewis who was at his worst he said so himself. If Lewis was at his best he would have knocked Vitali quicker imo but he had to take the fight at short notice and was not in his best shape.

You do realise that Klitschko landed more power shots and more jabs in every round including the 2 rounds lewis won. Vitali was not getting bashed up as he was landing the better shots and winning the fight. i suggest you re watch the fight.

having a cut above your eyebrow is hardly life threatning.

You seem to have an excuse for every opponent that Lewis faced, they weren't brilliant but the reality is Vitali is rated highly in retrospect.

Could be top 15 but doesn't have the opponents of this era to help him get there...The Sanders defeat hurts his legacy to be honest.

Wladimir hits harder than Tyson and Lewis which baffles me why he doesn't throw the right hand and left hook when his opponents are there for the taking.

His best performance to date was against Ray Mercer.

The genius of PBF wrote:Could be top 15 but doesn't have the opponents of this era to help him get there...The Sanders defeat hurts his legacy to be honest.

Wladimir hits harder than Tyson and Lewis which baffles me why he doesn't throw the right hand and left hook when his opponents are there for the taking.

His best performance to date was against Ray Mercer.

I agrree with you and he was great against mercer. however I also think he schooled jameel macline. maline was taller and heavier than wlad so it was great to see wlad using different tactics to beat someone because he normally fights smaller lighter guys.