Wlad K

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Why does he split opinions so much. Sure he's been levelled and his chin has been found wanting. He's not the most exciting boxer either. Very safety, jab jab jab jab until the opponent goes to sleep along with a non German crowd. But damn, he is very effective at what he does.

He reminds me of Lewis but a slightly better boxer. Better jab and equally concussive puncher when he decides to unleash the right. Many may say that his opposition is not up to much. But a certain ATG HW had a bum of the month contest and not many seem to hold that against him. Also Lewis has been sparked out twice, yet many seem to ignore that and claim Wlad is chinny. His opposition is on par with Lewis also. Its not as though he's fighting blown up LHW who got beat by a welterweight or past it HWs. He's fighting abd beating the best available with ease.

If he were British or american, would we rate him higher? In terms of achievement, I'd rank him in the top 10/top 15 ATG Heavyweights.

What say you?

The Galveston Giant wrote:Vitali was in more trouble than Lewis by the end, cut or no cut. If we were to see Vitali in that state today in a fight people would think he was finished. We weren't used to seeing Lewis so fat and were shocked. Hence why it seemed Vitali was on the up when the fight was stopped. Rubbish, that uppercut in the sixth nearly had Vitali off his feet, all the big shots were coming from Lewis, my money would have been on him to stop Vitali in another couple.

You are right mate

I consider Lewis's chin to be questionable based on him getting seriously wobbled a few times and KO'd twice. Far from glass though.

However, Wlad's is so dodgy, that it seems inconceivable for him to get past a Tyson, or Foreman.

Seriously, Patterson might knock him out.

Waingro wrote:

monty junior wrote:Yes, no wonder after being hit by two of Lewis' best uppercuts and hardly being able to see. I'm not disagreeing that cut's aren't a viable way of winning a fight i just think Lewis got a bit lucky to open one when he was clearly in trouble, he took advantage and won so fair play. I just think he was pretty lucky that day and probably knew he might not be so fortunate next time.

Mate Lewis was at his worst that night he said so himself. He had to take the fight at short notice. Imagine what would have happened if Lewis was at his best?? This is why there would be no point in a rematch Lewis had already smashed Vitali up when he was at his worst. Lewis was not in trouble he took Vitalis best shots and laughed this shows that Vitali would not be able to knock him out easily tbh Vitali was lucky the fight was stopped or Lewis would have knocked him out. He was getting stronger in the fight and Vitali could not see. Saying Lewis was behind on the cards is harsh if the fight went on longer he would have started to beat Vitali up the only reason he was behind was because it was stopped early and that was because Vitali was starting to get destroyed his face was a mess.

Yes but of course he would say that, thus playing down his opponent and making himself sound better. It's not like Vitali had an enormous amount of time to prepare either?!, Lewis was supposed to face Johnson and Vitali was on the under-card so they both wouldn't theoretically be prepared for each other. He laughed? are you kidding? i think you need to watch round 2 again, Vitali hit's Lewis with a huge right which has Lennox holding to avoid any more punishment, the last few shots of the round has Lewis almost on his knee's. If Lewis "destroyed" Vitali so bad (who could only see out of one eye), why, despite hitting him with his two best shot's was Vitali still on his feet?! Lewis was maybe finding his range as he usually did, but you could hardly say that Vitali was at his best with all that blood in his eye. Again i'm not saying Lewis didn't deserve to win but you can hardly target winning on cut's was his target whilst behind on all the cards , as he didn't do it to anyone else of note.

Having said that i think both fighter's are grossly overrated and never really fought any top fighter's in their absolute prime. Although Vitali's chance to do so were more limited.

azania wrote:Its getting tiring when all Lewis' poor performances or defeats are washed away by saying he didn't prepare properly or he had short notice (as in the Vit case). Vit was more than holding his own anyway. And he also had 2 weeks to prepare for Lewis. Lewis is supposed to be a pro boxer and should be ready for any fight.

He was prepared, he was in training for another fight that fell through. Vit is just a damn fine fighter at that time and gave lewis hell before the cuts. No way was he hanging on for dear life. Yes he took punches. So did Lewis and if memory serves me right, Lewis looked more likely to get floored than Vit.

It wasn't Lewis at his worse regardless of what Lewis said. Vit just made him look bad. Give credit to Vit.

Imo only Ali would beat Lewis and that is because Ali had more skill and speed than Lewis. Lewis had more power and was bigger but he would not be able to catch Ali who was too quick. But if he was at his best he would beat anyone else if he was focused and in shape. He was not at his best against Vitali and still beat him he also took guys like Rahman and McCall too lightly because they were not in his class but he showed that those fights were just a fluke by destroying them in rematches. Some people dont realise how good Lewis was when he was at his best only Ali was better imo.

Ali, Frazier and Foreman aside you could say that of any heavyweight.

Well Holyfield fought Bowe, Lewis and Tyson whilst in their primes.

Tyson perhaps questionable but was still quite young.

Holyfield fought and lost to Bowe and while not a huge Tyson fan it's clear he wasn't the same fighter after his stint inside.

Lewis didn't hit Vitali with his best shots, i remember one huge uppercut in the sixth, they may have been his best shots at the time. If you have a look at Lewis when he fought Vitali, and look at him when he fought Tyson or Rahman, see if you can tell the difference.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:When was Lewis worse then?

Maybe he was at his best but Vit made him look bad. Why not credit Vit?

monty junior wrote:Well Holyfield fought Bowe, Lewis and Tyson whilst in their primes.

Tyson perhaps questionable but was still quite young.

Bowe - no there is a guy who was not a real champ. Why did Lewis not fight him? Because Bowe was too chicken to face him he threw his belt in a bin. Lewis destroyed him in the amateurs and Bowe did not want to fight him. Tyson also payed Lewis 1 million dollars not to face him this is why Lewis did not beat these guys earlier you cant blame him for it that would be harsh.

monty junior wrote:Well Holyfield fought Bowe, Lewis and Tyson whilst in their primes.

Tyson perhaps questionable but was still quite young.

In Tyson's prime? Are you sure?

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Holyfield fought and lost to Bowe and while not a huge Tyson fan it's clear he wasn't the same fighter after his stint inside.

Absolutely correct.

The Galveston Giant wrote:Lewis didn't hit Vitali with his best shots, i remember one huge uppercut in the sixth, they may have been his best shots at the time. If you have a look at Lewis when he fought Vitali, and look at him when he fought Tyson or Rahman, see if you can tell the difference.

What about the fact Tyson was shot, slow, small and an easy target to hit. Rahman has a weak chin and had nothing but a big punch, easy for a big man like Lewis to look good against them rather than a man with similar size and strength.

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:When was Lewis worse then?

Maybe he was at his best but Vit made him look bad. Why not credit Vit?

Lewis had no timing at all in the fight and someone as robotic as Vitali isn't going to be capable of making a Lewis near his best look bad.

azania wrote:

monty junior wrote:Well Holyfield fought Bowe, Lewis and Tyson whilst in their primes.

Tyson perhaps questionable but was still quite young.

In Tyson's prime? Are you sure?

Well he was still a much better Tyson than what Lewis faced.

Waingro wrote:

monty junior wrote:Well Holyfield fought Bowe, Lewis and Tyson whilst in their primes.

Tyson perhaps questionable but was still quite young.

Bowe - no there is a guy who was not a real champ. Why did Lewis not fight him? Because Bowe was too chicken to face him he threw his belt in a bin. Lewis destroyed him in the amateurs and Bowe did not want to fight him. Tyson also payed Lewis 1 million dollars not to face him this is why Lewis did not beat these guys earlier you cant blame him for it that would be harsh.

Balls

You ignore boxing politics. Never mind. Lewis wudov mash him up innit bruv.

monty junior wrote:

The Galveston Giant wrote:Lewis didn't hit Vitali with his best shots, i remember one huge uppercut in the sixth, they may have been his best shots at the time. If you have a look at Lewis when he fought Vitali, and look at him when he fought Tyson or Rahman, see if you can tell the difference.

What about the fact Tyson was shot, slow, small and an easy target to hit. Rahman has a weak chin and had nothing but a big punch, easy for a big man like Lewis to look good against them rather than a man with similar size and strength.

Size really doesn't matter as much as you make out there, he ended both fights exactly when he wanted to, with his timing being off he was never going to be able to generate the same kind of power he had previously. This is of course Lewis' fault but gives no real indication of how Vitali does against the Lewis of yesteryear.

monty junior wrote:

azania wrote:

monty junior wrote:Well Holyfield fought Bowe, Lewis and Tyson whilst in their primes.

Tyson perhaps questionable but was still quite young.

In Tyson's prime? Are you sure?

Well he was still a much better Tyson than what Lewis faced.

True

monty junior wrote:

azania wrote:

monty junior wrote:Well Holyfield fought Bowe, Lewis and Tyson whilst in their primes.

Tyson perhaps questionable but was still quite young.

In Tyson's prime? Are you sure?

Well he was still a much better Tyson than what Lewis faced.

And? You wont find anyone trying to suggest Tyson was anywhere near his best against Lewis.

monty junior wrote:

The Galveston Giant wrote:Lewis didn't hit Vitali with his best shots, i remember one huge uppercut in the sixth, they may have been his best shots at the time. If you have a look at Lewis when he fought Vitali, and look at him when he fought Tyson or Rahman, see if you can tell the difference.

What about the fact Tyson was shot, slow, small and an easy target to hit. Rahman has a weak chin and had nothing but a big punch, easy for a big man like Lewis to look good against them rather than a man with similar size and strength.

I was talking about the shape Lewis was in not the level of opponents. You only have to look at how fat his face was. I don't really blame him as Johnson is useless. You could also look at it like a huge man overpowering Lewis making an unfit, overweight Lewis gas, until Lewis landed a few big punches.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

monty junior wrote:

The Galveston Giant wrote:Lewis didn't hit Vitali with his best shots, i remember one huge uppercut in the sixth, they may have been his best shots at the time. If you have a look at Lewis when he fought Vitali, and look at him when he fought Tyson or Rahman, see if you can tell the difference.

What about the fact Tyson was shot, slow, small and an easy target to hit. Rahman has a weak chin and had nothing but a big punch, easy for a big man like Lewis to look good against them rather than a man with similar size and strength.

Size really doesn't matter as much as you make out there, he ended both fights exactly when he wanted to, with his timing being off he was never going to be able to generate the same kind of power he had previously. This is of course Lewis' fault but gives no real indication of how Vitali does against the Lewis of yesteryear.

Remember though despite being in his prime in terms of years Vitali had a lack of relative experience in big title fights. Lewis had fought almost 20? maybe Vitali had the wrong game plan due to lack of experience, especially against great fighter's like Lewis who could hit hard back. Who's to say Lewis at 28, around the time he lost to McCall would have beaten the Vitali that he fought ten years later. He may not have had the perfect conditioning of his late 20s but he had the experience where as Klitschko had next to none. Especially at fighting at a high intensity.

When you are half a foot taller and can keep a guy off with your ridiculously long arms in comparison that is a big advantage, he ended Tyson and fought a good fight but he just fought a name that night looking for a pay cheque rather than a hungry potential champion going to out to win.

The Galveston Giant wrote:

azania wrote:Its getting tiring when all Lewis' poor performances or defeats are washed away by saying he didn't prepare properly or he had short notice (as in the Vit case). Vit was more than holding his own anyway. And he also had 2 weeks to prepare for Lewis. Lewis is supposed to be a pro boxer and should be ready for any fight.

He was prepared, he was in training for another fight that fell through. Vit is just a damn fine fighter at that time and gave lewis hell before the cuts. No way was he hanging on for dear life. Yes he took punches. So did Lewis and if memory serves me right, Lewis looked more likely to get floored than Vit.

It wasn't Lewis at his worse regardless of what Lewis said. Vit just made him look bad. Give credit to Vit.

When was the last time Lewis looked in such poor shape, he was preparing to fight Johnson who was also a fat mess. Lewis doesn't get any credit for giving Vitali a shot at such short notice, knowing how poorly he had prepared.

HBO ordered the fight. He was in the same boat at Vit. Both took the fight in short notice. Its not as though Lewis was lying down, catching some rays at Montego Bay as many try to make out.

azania wrote:

The Galveston Giant wrote:

azania wrote:Its getting tiring when all Lewis' poor performances or defeats are washed away by saying he didn't prepare properly or he had short notice (as in the Vit case). Vit was more than holding his own anyway. And he also had 2 weeks to prepare for Lewis. Lewis is supposed to be a pro boxer and should be ready for any fight.

He was prepared, he was in training for another fight that fell through. Vit is just a damn fine fighter at that time and gave lewis hell before the cuts. No way was he hanging on for dear life. Yes he took punches. So did Lewis and if memory serves me right, Lewis looked more likely to get floored than Vit.

It wasn't Lewis at his worse regardless of what Lewis said. Vit just made him look bad. Give credit to Vit.

When was the last time Lewis looked in such poor shape, he was preparing to fight Johnson who was also a fat mess. Lewis doesn't get any credit for giving Vitali a shot at such short notice, knowing how poorly he had prepared.

HBO ordered the fight. He was in the same boat at Vit. Both took the fight in short notice. Its not as though Lewis was lying down, catching some rays at Montego Bay as many try to make out.

No but he was due to fight Johnson and came into the fight looking fat and unfit, surely you can't deny that. It was the biggest fight of Vitali's life and his big shot. Lewis had his slippers ready in the dressing room for retirement. So i know who i was more impressed with in hindsight.

monty junior wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

monty junior wrote:

The Galveston Giant wrote:Lewis didn't hit Vitali with his best shots, i remember one huge uppercut in the sixth, they may have been his best shots at the time. If you have a look at Lewis when he fought Vitali, and look at him when he fought Tyson or Rahman, see if you can tell the difference.

What about the fact Tyson was shot, slow, small and an easy target to hit. Rahman has a weak chin and had nothing but a big punch, easy for a big man like Lewis to look good against them rather than a man with similar size and strength.

Size really doesn't matter as much as you make out there, he ended both fights exactly when he wanted to, with his timing being off he was never going to be able to generate the same kind of power he had previously. This is of course Lewis' fault but gives no real indication of how Vitali does against the Lewis of yesteryear.

Remember though despite being in his prime in terms of years Vitali had a lack of relative experience in big title fights. Lewis had fought almost 20? maybe Vitali had the wrong game plan due to lack of experience, especially against great fighter's like Lewis who could hit hard back. Who's to say Lewis at 28, around the time he lost to McCall would have beaten the Vitali that he fought ten years later. He may not have had the perfect conditioning of his late 20s but he had the experience where as Klitschko had next to none. Especially at fighting at a high intensity.

When you are half a foot taller and can keep a guy off with your ridiculously long arms in comparison that is a big advantage, he ended Tyson and fought a good fight but he just fought a name that night looking for a pay cheque rather than a hungry potential champion going to out to win.

Size means nothing, how long did it take him to finish Golota and Grant.

The Galveston Giant wrote:

azania wrote:

The Galveston Giant wrote:

azania wrote:Its getting tiring when all Lewis' poor performances or defeats are washed away by saying he didn't prepare properly or he had short notice (as in the Vit case). Vit was more than holding his own anyway. And he also had 2 weeks to prepare for Lewis. Lewis is supposed to be a pro boxer and should be ready for any fight.

He was prepared, he was in training for another fight that fell through. Vit is just a damn fine fighter at that time and gave lewis hell before the cuts. No way was he hanging on for dear life. Yes he took punches. So did Lewis and if memory serves me right, Lewis looked more likely to get floored than Vit.

It wasn't Lewis at his worse regardless of what Lewis said. Vit just made him look bad. Give credit to Vit.

When was the last time Lewis looked in such poor shape, he was preparing to fight Johnson who was also a fat mess. Lewis doesn't get any credit for giving Vitali a shot at such short notice, knowing how poorly he had prepared.

HBO ordered the fight. He was in the same boat at Vit. Both took the fight in short notice. Its not as though Lewis was lying down, catching some rays at Montego Bay as many try to make out.

No but he was due to fight Johnson and came into the fight looking fat and unfit, surely you can't deny that. It was the biggest fight of Vitali's life and his big shot. Lewis had his slippers ready in the dressing room for retirement. So i know who i was more impressed with in hindsight.

HBO ordered the fight because they had a date ready for the HW title fight. Johnson injured himself. Vit was supposed to be on the undercard. Both were in training for a fight.

Lewis came in heavy yes. But he also came in heavy against Grant.

This all takes credit away from Vit who was outboxing Lewis. Even Bruno was outboxing Lewis.

Before anyone gets any funny ideas. Lewis wasn't lucky to win that fight. He punched Vit causing the cut to open. Nothing lucky about that. Had it been a butt or the laced area of the glove then luck would come into play. He hit him with a good punch and opened him up.

So do you discount the condition Lewis was in then?

azania wrote:

The Galveston Giant wrote:

azania wrote:

The Galveston Giant wrote:

azania wrote:Its getting tiring when all Lewis' poor performances or defeats are washed away by saying he didn't prepare properly or he had short notice (as in the Vit case). Vit was more than holding his own anyway. And he also had 2 weeks to prepare for Lewis. Lewis is supposed to be a pro boxer and should be ready for any fight.

He was prepared, he was in training for another fight that fell through. Vit is just a damn fine fighter at that time and gave lewis hell before the cuts. No way was he hanging on for dear life. Yes he took punches. So did Lewis and if memory serves me right, Lewis looked more likely to get floored than Vit.

It wasn't Lewis at his worse regardless of what Lewis said. Vit just made him look bad. Give credit to Vit.

When was the last time Lewis looked in such poor shape, he was preparing to fight Johnson who was also a fat mess. Lewis doesn't get any credit for giving Vitali a shot at such short notice, knowing how poorly he had prepared.

HBO ordered the fight. He was in the same boat at Vit. Both took the fight in short notice. Its not as though Lewis was lying down, catching some rays at Montego Bay as many try to make out.

No but he was due to fight Johnson and came into the fight looking fat and unfit, surely you can't deny that. It was the biggest fight of Vitali's life and his big shot. Lewis had his slippers ready in the dressing room for retirement. So i know who i was more impressed with in hindsight.

HBO ordered the fight because they had a date ready for the HW title fight. Johnson injured himself. Vit was supposed to be on the undercard. Both were in training for a fight.

Lewis came in heavy yes. But he also came in heavy against Grant.

This all takes credit away from Vit who was outboxing Lewis. Even Bruno was outboxing Lewis.

Means nothing though, Prescott will never be remember from being seconds away from beating the undefeated Alvarado, did Prescott deserve the victory and credit or Alvarado?

Of course it means nothing. Cant take it away from Lewis. But it is tiring when there seems to be an excuse for all Lewis' poor performances. Takes credit away from the other guys which is unfair to them.

He wasn't fat, a few pounds more than the Tyson fight but hardly had the weight change of a Riddick Bowe for example who could fluctuate by 30/40 pounds.

The Galveston Giant wrote:

monty junior wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

monty junior wrote:

The Galveston Giant wrote:Lewis didn't hit Vitali with his best shots, i remember one huge uppercut in the sixth, they may have been his best shots at the time. If you have a look at Lewis when he fought Vitali, and look at him when he fought Tyson or Rahman, see if you can tell the difference.

What about the fact Tyson was shot, slow, small and an easy target to hit. Rahman has a weak chin and had nothing but a big punch, easy for a big man like Lewis to look good against them rather than a man with similar size and strength.

Size really doesn't matter as much as you make out there, he ended both fights exactly when he wanted to, with his timing being off he was never going to be able to generate the same kind of power he had previously. This is of course Lewis' fault but gives no real indication of how Vitali does against the Lewis of yesteryear.

Remember though despite being in his prime in terms of years Vitali had a lack of relative experience in big title fights. Lewis had fought almost 20? maybe Vitali had the wrong game plan due to lack of experience, especially against great fighter's like Lewis who could hit hard back. Who's to say Lewis at 28, around the time he lost to McCall would have beaten the Vitali that he fought ten years later. He may not have had the perfect conditioning of his late 20s but he had the experience where as Klitschko had next to none. Especially at fighting at a high intensity.

When you are half a foot taller and can keep a guy off with your ridiculously long arms in comparison that is a big advantage, he ended Tyson and fought a good fight but he just fought a name that night looking for a pay cheque rather than a hungry potential champion going to out to win.

Size means nothing, how long did it take him to finish Golota and Grant.

Both had glass chin's though.

7lbs is a fairly hefty weight difference especially when you're the heaviest of your entire career.

A big weight change in his context perhaps, but if you or i put on half a stone your not suddenly going to go from skinny to fat.

azania wrote:Of course it means nothing. Cant take it away from Lewis. But it is tiring when there seems to be an excuse for all Lewis' poor performances. Takes credit away from the other guys which is unfair to them.

I've no excuses for his other performances, but i do believe if Lewis had known he was fighting Vitali earlier then he would have been a different fighter, but we would have had the same Vitali. That's why i don't give Vitali as much credit as other in the fight. He fought his heart out i'll give him that but i don't think he deserved to win just because he was ahead and giving Lewis a tough fight.

monty junior wrote:

The Galveston Giant wrote:

monty junior wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

monty junior wrote:

The Galveston Giant wrote:Lewis didn't hit Vitali with his best shots, i remember one huge uppercut in the sixth, they may have been his best shots at the time. If you have a look at Lewis when he fought Vitali, and look at him when he fought Tyson or Rahman, see if you can tell the difference.

What about the fact Tyson was shot, slow, small and an easy target to hit. Rahman has a weak chin and had nothing but a big punch, easy for a big man like Lewis to look good against them rather than a man with similar size and strength.

Size really doesn't matter as much as you make out there, he ended both fights exactly when he wanted to, with his timing being off he was never going to be able to generate the same kind of power he had previously. This is of course Lewis' fault but gives no real indication of how Vitali does against the Lewis of yesteryear.

Remember though despite being in his prime in terms of years Vitali had a lack of relative experience in big title fights. Lewis had fought almost 20? maybe Vitali had the wrong game plan due to lack of experience, especially against great fighter's like Lewis who could hit hard back. Who's to say Lewis at 28, around the time he lost to McCall would have beaten the Vitali that he fought ten years later. He may not have had the perfect conditioning of his late 20s but he had the experience where as Klitschko had next to none. Especially at fighting at a high intensity.

When you are half a foot taller and can keep a guy off with your ridiculously long arms in comparison that is a big advantage, he ended Tyson and fought a good fight but he just fought a name that night looking for a pay cheque rather than a hungry potential champion going to out to win.

Size means nothing, how long did it take him to finish Golota and Grant.

Both had glass chin's though.

Thus proving size isn't such an important factor.

monty junior wrote:

The Galveston Giant wrote:

monty junior wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

monty junior wrote:

The Galveston Giant wrote:Lewis didn't hit Vitali with his best shots, i remember one huge uppercut in the sixth, they may have been his best shots at the time. If you have a look at Lewis when he fought Vitali, and look at him when he fought Tyson or Rahman, see if you can tell the difference.

What about the fact Tyson was shot, slow, small and an easy target to hit. Rahman has a weak chin and had nothing but a big punch, easy for a big man like Lewis to look good against them rather than a man with similar size and strength.

Size really doesn't matter as much as you make out there, he ended both fights exactly when he wanted to, with his timing being off he was never going to be able to generate the same kind of power he had previously. This is of course Lewis' fault but gives no real indication of how Vitali does against the Lewis of yesteryear.

Remember though despite being in his prime in terms of years Vitali had a lack of relative experience in big title fights. Lewis had fought almost 20? maybe Vitali had the wrong game plan due to lack of experience, especially against great fighter's like Lewis who could hit hard back. Who's to say Lewis at 28, around the time he lost to McCall would have beaten the Vitali that he fought ten years later. He may not have had the perfect conditioning of his late 20s but he had the experience where as Klitschko had next to none. Especially at fighting at a high intensity.

When you are half a foot taller and can keep a guy off with your ridiculously long arms in comparison that is a big advantage, he ended Tyson and fought a good fight but he just fought a name that night looking for a pay cheque rather than a hungry potential champion going to out to win.

Size means nothing, how long did it take him to finish Golota and Grant.

Both had glass chin's though.

Tell that to Riddick Bowe.

monty junior wrote:A big weight change in his context perhaps, but if you or i put on half a stone your not suddenly going to go from skinny to fat.

In his context is all that matters, you and I are irrelevant to Lewis' weight.

But my original point was Vitali was big and tough like Lewis, couple with the fact he could actually take his best shot's makes him a helluva lot tougher than guys he can just jab to death from the outside who can do nothing about it.

I personally think Lewis would have been able to jab him to death were he fully prepared for a tougher fight than Johnson, taking one uppercut doesn't necessarily mean he keeps taking them.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

monty junior wrote:A big weight change in his context perhaps, but if you or i put on half a stone your not suddenly going to go from skinny to fat.

In his context is all that matters, you and I are irrelevant to Lewis' weight.

Fair enough, i just think if you weigh 250pounds already 7 pounds isn't going to have a profound effect, especially if you only fight 6 rounds. I just think Vitali showed weaknesses Lewis always had but could get away with them with a good jab.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I personally think Lewis would have been able to jab him to death were he fully prepared for a tougher fight than Johnson, taking one uppercut doesn't necessarily mean he keeps taking them.

Lewis landed quite a few big punches, it wasn't just those big uppercuts in round 6. The thing was unlike these small fighters who Lewis did just jab boringly all night, Tua, Holyfield, Mercer etc.. Klitschko had the arm length to do just the same, it's tough to out jab a guy taller and stronger than you.

Lewis was a finely tuned heavyweight, he was not like Samuel Peter or most of the crud around at the moment so 7lbs could and possibly did have a profound effect, it also highlights how poorly he had trained, all his own fault but Vitali gets far too much credit for winning 4 rounds against him.

The Galveston Giant wrote:

azania wrote:Of course it means nothing. Cant take it away from Lewis. But it is tiring when there seems to be an excuse for all Lewis' poor performances. Takes credit away from the other guys which is unfair to them.

I've no excuses for his other performances, but i do believe if Lewis had known he was fighting Vitali earlier then he would have been a different fighter, but we would have had the same Vitali. That's why i don't give Vitali as much credit as other in the fight. He fought his heart out i'll give him that but i don't think he deserved to win just because he was ahead and giving Lewis a tough fight.

Conversly had Vit had more time, he would have prepared for a fighter of Lewis' calibre a lot better. It cuts both ways. I haven't said he deserved to win. Lewis won fair and square.

monty junior wrote:But my original point was Vitali was big and tough like Lewis, couple with the fact he could actually take his best shot's makes him a helluva lot tougher than guys he can just jab to death from the outside who can do nothing about it.

But Lewis has fought a lot of big guys, a lot more than Vitali.

monty junior wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I personally think Lewis would have been able to jab him to death were he fully prepared for a tougher fight than Johnson, taking one uppercut doesn't necessarily mean he keeps taking them.

Lewis landed quite a few big punches, it wasn't just those big uppercuts in round 6. The thing was unlike these small fighters who Lewis did just jab boringly all night, Tua, Holyfield, Mercer etc.. Klitschko had the arm length to do just the same, it's tough to out jab a guy taller and stronger than you.

It was never Lewis' style to try and out jab fighters he had no fear of, he feared Tua, Holyfield and Tyson so elected to stay behind his jab, there size didn't play a part in that.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Lewis was a finely tuned heavyweight, he was not like Samuel Peter or most of the crud around at the moment so 7lbs could and possibly did have a profound effect, it also highlights how poorly he had trained, all his own fault but Vitali gets far too much credit for winning 4 rounds against him.

Sorry I dont buy that. Lewis had fought at over 250lbs against Grant (if i recall properly) and looked good. Give Vit the rightful credit he deserves for his performance.

So are you saying if Lewis had came in half a stone lighter he would have won all 6 rounds? what tosh. The fact is he was extremely slow at the start got caught multiple times, and was in a lot of troubles and for much of the time was beaten to the punch. I give him credit for finding a way to win but he flattered to decieve not because of his weight but because he actually fought a top fighter for once.

You're completely missing the point, the added 7lbs highlighted how poorly he had trained, don't think we could say by any stretch of the imagination that he was near his best that night.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

monty junior wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I personally think Lewis would have been able to jab him to death were he fully prepared for a tougher fight than Johnson, taking one uppercut doesn't necessarily mean he keeps taking them.

Lewis landed quite a few big punches, it wasn't just those big uppercuts in round 6. The thing was unlike these small fighters who Lewis did just jab boringly all night, Tua, Holyfield, Mercer etc.. Klitschko had the arm length to do just the same, it's tough to out jab a guy taller and stronger than you.

It was never Lewis' style to try and out jab fighters he had no fear of, he feared Tua, Holyfield and Tyson so elected to stay behind his jab, there size didn't play a part in that.

I would say it was for the most part that Lewis was a conservative fighter and using the jab most of the time was the way he usually fought.

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Lewis was a finely tuned heavyweight, he was not like Samuel Peter or most of the crud around at the moment so 7lbs could and possibly did have a profound effect, it also highlights how poorly he had trained, all his own fault but Vitali gets far too much credit for winning 4 rounds against him.

Sorry I dont buy that. Lewis had fought at over 250lbs against Grant (if i recall properly) and looked good. Give Vit the rightful credit he deserves for his performance.

Vitali lost Az, Lewis won so deserves the credit. Against Grant he was a trim 247lbs but in the first Rahmann fight he was over 250lbs.