Step Up or Step Off, Bute...

So, bit of a harsh one on the golden boy of Canada here, but hopefully justified.

Lucian Bute: quick, powerful, great left, great uppercut, slightly pawing jab, nice balance, nice body work, a real talent.

This is why i find him frustrating. I mean look at his record, not one, one, world level fighter on there. This man is in his 30s, this man has spent so much time at home he may well be on house arrest, this man is banking more than Ward and Froch with his TV deals and home crowds. So i ask you, is this right?

He gives great performances you say... well of course he does, he's fighting cans, hags and aging bums. Mendy? Johnson? Magee? Brinkley? (who). I mean where are these fighters ranked? who have they scalped along the way? Johnson is a name, but nothing more, absolutely nothing more these days. And Bute spent hours sparring with him so that's a cherry pick, surely.

There are two schools of thought with Bute, but only one pending question. Will he step up this year and fight away from home against a world level opponent, or will he step off and continue to fight cans at home but without all the accolade from the critics?

If he signs to fight Froch at home on a two fight deal then i will be annoyed, as this for me, is the fence. Fight him in America i say. No more Drone type contracts where the ego needs to be rubbed before a fight can be made.

Step up or step off, Lucien.

D-Man

Bute's taken a bit of a kicking over his opposition over the last three years, but given that many of the top 168 lb names have been tied up in the Super Six, who else could he have fought realistically? I'll wait and see what he does in 2012 before passing a final judgement on Bute, as now there really is no excuse. The big names are available and, if we believe reports, willing to thrash it out with him, so a fight with either Ward, Froch or Kessler is essential now.

Of course, we could wonder all day why Bute wasn't in the Super Six in the first place; he says he was never asked, Showtime say he point blank refused, but I suspect it will always remain a case of his word against theirs. I'm willing to give Bute the benefit of the doubt, just about, for now. But as I say (and you allude to, Davide) it really is make or break for him now.

Great points Chris.

For me the only reason Bute didn't get involved in the Super Six is because he was on HBO, getting paid a fortune to fight complete cans. So he fought them, and took the money. Fair enough, much like Andre Berto he cashed in way, way, way before most boxers have that option.

However, like Berto i could see Bute getting a shock when he finally steps up in class. If you spend your whole career, and with Bute it is his whole career, fighting B level at best opposition, when you come up against a Ward, Froch or Dirrell, you risk a big shock.

I would say Bute's opponents have been 60% of what he will hopefully, eventually face.

While the Super Six was going on he could have fought tougher opponents, simply by fighting higher ranked opponents than Magee and Brinkley. Must have been better out there than them, surely.

bute is just one of dozens of supposed world champions fighting poor opposition. the fact that he is well marketed and talented means he gets a bit more stick than most. also the fact that he is in one of the best stacked divisions. id like to see him fight ward, dirrell or kessler next. if he cant beat any of those 3 hes just another decent fighter making as much money while he can.

I'm surprised that The Ring rate him so highly. He's P4P top 10. Based on what is anyone's guess.

here, here azania

To call someone an aging bum...means he must be a bum that's aged..

Like to think Johnson deserves more respect than that...

If he will annoy you by fighting Froch at home then I suggest he doesn't do it!!!

One minute you say he's fighting cans and next hammering a potential Froch showdown..???

Suggest that this guy won't win you over whatever he does...

I don't quite understand your point with if he faces Froch in Canada that's an awful choice, for me personally I don't think there's anything wrogn with that. You see the reason he has stayed in Canada is because he's a massive draw out there, people absolutely love him in Canada. He's known as "The man that makes people fall"... (Original title I know) With him being a big draw there and not a particularly big draw anywhere else means that money is factoring this, why would you go to America to face tougher opposition for less money? Of course you'd love to see him face the best possible opposition but realistically he has faced the best that have been available to him. The best opposition haven't really been "bums" there have been a few genuine lower scale world class opponents and fringe world class opponents.

He hasn't done all that much wrong and looked very impressive in dispatching these supposed "Bums". I hate calling lower class world level opposition bums as they most certainly don't warrant it.

He is a guy that has a bit of a bad tag now because he has looked good in dispatching lower scale world level opposition, which means he is going to get ripped apart by a lot of boxing fans. I agree that he should realistcally be looking to face a Froch or a Kessler or hopefully down the line a Ward, however they have been tied up and only now they are open to face them, I do agree that next year should be the year that he really comes out.

Absolutely.....Why the heck would you fight for peanuts in America when you can earn two or three times more at home...

Beggars belief..

The ecomomic side of boxing is something people dont get. Boxers are self employed individuals. They fight for money. Larry Holmes said "Show me a boxer who fights for glory and I'll show you someone who will be broke" (or words to that extent).

Froch may well go to Canada to fight him as he doesn't mind travelling. Think Bute beats him via a convincing UD though. As for Ward, I honestly can't see this fight ever happening. Neither fighter wants to concede home advantage and both fighters think they are number one a the weight so that could make negotiating even more difficult. Hope it does though.

Jimmy Moz wrote:Froch may well go to Canada to fight him as he doesn't mind travelling. Think Bute beats him via a convincing UD though. As for Ward, I honestly can't see this fight ever happening. Neither fighter wants to concede home advantage and both fighters think they are number one a the weight so that could make negotiating even more difficult. Hope it does though.

If the money's right, they will fight. I reckon they will fight because of the money involved seeing as it will take a lot to bring Bute to Vegas. Canadian PPV sales will be huge. Coupled with US PPV and it will be a money spinner. A lot will depend on how Ward is marketed. Currently he cant draw flies, so GBP (or whomever his promoters are) have their work cut out.

Bute has been the IBF champion for over 4 years now and his level of opposition has been very average at best. If he wanted big fights against the other top fighters in the division he could have had them already. I don't see very much has changed for Bute since he won the title so I don't see why he will be rushing into a hard fight any time soon. Milk the title for all it's worth for a few years and retire undefeated seems like a plan he can take to the bank, he's 31 already so he's hardly a prospect waiting to break through. Also I'm not sure what kind of a draw Pascal is in Canada but surely that would be a pretty huge fight over there if Bute did want to earn some real big bucks and test himself.

TRUSS i can easily be won over by Bute. What i mean about the Froch fight is this: why can't he fight him in England, or on Showtime in the States? Why can't he take a one fight deal? why does he need the safety net of a rematch. Why do either fighter need that when it will have an impact on their first fight.

I am all for Bute vs Froch, and if Bute dominates he wins my respect. Just want to see Lucian Bute leave his comfort zone.

And as for Johnson i do respect him, but i don;t respect his last couple of fights. At all. He looks shot and delusional, especially after the Bute fight when he said he thought he won. He is trying to stay relative, and could look like a lonely gatekeeper soon if he doesn't retire, by choice.

Well the Klitschko's do that with there contracts now, the man who makes the money can generally dictate terms that can be advantgeous to them if something goes wrong.

Perhaps it is a safety net having it in the contract for a rematch but at leats he is willing to face Carl Froch. Again however, Bute facing him outside of Canada most probably means far less money, which in turn doesn't make much sense considering the risk for reward in the fight.

Bute made enough fighting hags for HBO alex. he needs a win to make a respectable name for himself. all of the super six fighters put everything on the line for a big win or four, for less money than Bute's earned fighting cans.

I'm not disputing he should be searching for one of the big names now, however to rubbish his name because he hasn't yet faced a serious elite level fighter of the division is overly harsh in my opinion. It's not as if he's had all that many opportunities and took on the Semi Finalist of the Super Six in Johnson, who had previously - although being well beaten in the end - put in a strong shift against Froch.

It isn't Bute's fault he makes good money in Canada.

I would also allude to your "fighting hags" comment, I do not believe Bute has fought any of these, fighters he is expected to beat yes. However the main guys from the Super Six were not available. Abraham got rather shown up in the super Six and hasn't fought since (To my knowledge, and also most probably wouldn't want to step up to that level again just yet) Dirrell has been AWOL for a while now, Johnson was the best opponent at the time realistcally, not too much wrong with that.

The only fight that was available was Kessler and the negotiations to that broke down because both fighters were unwilling to fight away from home and money. Also Kessler at this moment in time will be facing Stieglitz for the WBO.

davidemore wrote:Bute made enough fighting hags for HBO alex. he needs a win to make a respectable name for himself. all of the super six fighters put everything on the line for a big win or four, for less money than Bute's earned fighting cans.

Why should he take a pay cut? He should fight (as should all boxers) for as much money as possible. Fans dont take punches to the head.

azania wrote:

davidemore wrote:Bute made enough fighting hags for HBO alex. he needs a win to make a respectable name for himself. all of the super six fighters put everything on the line for a big win or four, for less money than Bute's earned fighting cans.

Why should he take a pay cut? He should fight (as should all boxers) for as much money as possible. Fans dont take punches to the head.

Don't say this often about Az but that is the most relevant question.

God forbid us boxing fans think that maybe, just maybe, a fighter should seek out the best names available in order to prove that he's worthy of 'world champion' status eh, Azania?

Where are you getting this idea that he'd automatically be taking a pay cut if he actually dusted off his passport for a big fight abroad, or fought (even in Canada) against a Showtime fighter? I actually despair at this kind of attitude. There's only so much money a man needs and then the rest if just for showing off, as the old saying goes.

Yes, boxers are (for all intents and purposes) self-employed individuals. But boxing is still a sport. Maybe the excuse of Bute wanting to earn every single penny he can out of the sport might constitute a decent reason for him seeing out the rest of his career without facing anyone of note in your opinion, but not for me. Regardless of whichever reason he cares to put forward, if a fight with either Kessler, Froch or Ward doesn't materialize in 2012, then Bute will become a fighter of absolutely no consequence in my eyes.

I most certainly feel that he should be facing one of the major SMW's this year and actually feel he will, however if he doesn't leave Canada there will be many that still criticise him massively for it, which for me given the money situation is harsh.

Financial sense = beating froch and earning millions for a fight - that one paycut could mean big paydays ahead - and he could always go back home to get his money. Sort of a win win situation.

God forbid us boxing fans think that maybe, just maybe, a fighter should seek out the best names available in order to prove that he's worthy of 'world champion' status eh, Azania?
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Amen to that Chris!

I mean it's not like Bute goes to work on a goat everyday is it? He's made his money, and it's not like peanuts are on offer here. A fight against Froch is a global fight with Sky and Showtime backing it, and a sellout crowd in the UK and a healthy one in the States. The money will be good, and god forbid! A boxer fighting for his legacy, for pride, and not for money.

He can't call himself a top fighter when he is beating up old contenders, fact. Bute needs to step up and forget about money for one, just one fight, a transition fight to put him on the world stage. There is real money there, not peanuts.

Lucian Bute has had it easy and needs to step up.

True, Shah. Actually beating someone like Froch / Kessler, even if it means taking a slight cut in pay (which is debatable to begin with) would give him a huge window of opportunities to claw it back and then some in the future.

Just riles me when I see boxing fans basically saying they're happy for someone to stay at home feasting off largely average opposition and showing no desire to face the best around, simply because it gives the fighter in question a nice pension fund. If all boxers had that attitude, the sport really would be in trouble.

In complete contrast to what everyone else says about Bute, the more I think about it the more I actually think he did the right thing in not signing up for the Super 6.

Why would you sign up to a punishing 5 fight competition where you are legally obliged to fight tough fights one after the other? You have to take into context that these guys are not signing for a snooker tournament. So if you have a tough, tough fight - win or lose you at least want the option of taking some time off between the next fight or having a softer fight if you lose. Was never a fan of the Super 6 format I have to admit.

The other reason he was correct in not signing up was the fact that one boxer got to fight every one of his five fights at home. And please don't give me the mileage between Atlantic City and Oakland it's still the same damn country! Why would you sign up to a competiton where one of your fellow competitiors gets special privileges over you?

Froch got 600K for his biggest ever fight, in comparison to what Bute makes it isn't great.

88Chris05 wrote:God forbid us boxing fans think that maybe, just maybe, a fighter should seek out the best names available in order to prove that he's worthy of 'world champion' status eh, Azania?

Where are you getting this idea that he'd automatically be taking a pay cut if he actually dusted off his passport for a big fight abroad, or fought (even in Canada) against a Showtime fighter? I actually despair at this kind of attitude. There's only so much money a man needs and then the rest if just for showing off, as the old saying goes.

Yes, boxers are (for all intents and purposes) self-employed individuals. But boxing is still a sport. Maybe the excuse of Bute wanting to earn every single penny he can out of the sport might constitute a decent reason for him seeing out the rest of his career without facing anyone of note in your opinion, but not for me. Regardless of whichever reason he cares to put forward, if a fight with either Kessler, Froch or Ward doesn't materialize in 2012, then Bute will become a fighter of absolutely no consequence in my eyes.

If he seeks out the best he should be rewarded for it and not to take a pay cut. I am self employed. I have to negotiate every contract I take on. Some pay more than others. Some are more challenging that others and as such the more difficult ones pay more. Same principle for Bute or any other boxer.

You are asking for a boxer to be alturistic. It doesn't happen and never has. I'd like to see Bute tested. He looks a good boxer, but I appreciate the business of boxing, the risk/reward situation. And knowing a boxer who suffered a severe brain injury, I'm all for boxers maximising as much as possible. They are the ones taking the risks.

In complete contrast to what everyone else says about Bute, the more I think about it the more I actually think he did the right thing in not signing up for the Super 6.

Why would you sign up to a punishing 5 fight competition where you are legally obliged to fight tough fights one after the other? You have to take into context that these guys are not signing for a snooker tournament. So if you have a tough, tough fight - win or lose you at least want the option of taking some time off between the next fight or having a softer fight if you lose. Was never a fan of the Super 6 format I have to admit.
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This is what is wrong with modern day boxing fans. Sorry if it sounds harsh but this is a losing attitude towards a great, amazing tournament. Negative post here superboon, shame.

88Chris05 wrote:True, Shah. Actually beating someone like Froch / Kessler, even if it means taking a slight cut in pay (which is debatable to begin with) would give him a huge window of opportunities to claw it back and then some in the future.

Just riles me when I see boxing fans basically saying they're happy for someone to stay at home feasting off largely average opposition and showing no desire to face the best around, simply because it gives the fighter in question a nice pension fund. If all boxers had that attitude, the sport really would be in trouble.

I want to see the best fight the best. But what I am not prepared to see is a promoter milking a boxer by paying less than the market rate. If Bute gets $1m for fighting Carlos Crapola in Quebec, why should he accept $500k for taking on Froch? Who do you think will be laughing all the way to the bank without so much as taking a punch?

I want to see the best fight the best. But what I am not prepared to see is a promoter milking a boxer by paying less than the market rate. If Bute gets $1m for fighting Carlos Crapola in Quebec, why would be be paid $500k for taking on Froch? Who do you think will be laughing all the way to the bank without so much as taking a punch?
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terrible post, i mean no one is milking Lucian Bute, and no one should respect the fact that Bute beats up sub par opposition for an overpriced payday. I could really eat this comment alive, verbally bash it, but i wont. I will say this though, how do you know a Froch fight makes less money? how do you know that fighting a name, a real fighter in Froch makes less money. Come to England Bute, fight to 20,000 and make the same money... didn't think so. Stay at home.

davidemore wrote:In complete contrast to what everyone else says about Bute, the more I think about it the more I actually think he did the right thing in not signing up for the Super 6.

Why would you sign up to a punishing 5 fight competition where you are legally obliged to fight tough fights one after the other? You have to take into context that these guys are not signing for a snooker tournament. So if you have a tough, tough fight - win or lose you at least want the option of taking some time off between the next fight or having a softer fight if you lose. Was never a fan of the Super 6 format I have to admit.
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This is what is wrong with modern day boxing fans. Sorry if it sounds harsh but this is a losing attitude towards a great, amazing tournament. Negative post here superboon, shame.

I actually think Froch should have refused entry to the tournament as well and did what Bute does and fought some cans in Nottingham for a while. Boxing uber-fans can complain about Froch not getting enough media coverage but the sad reality is, had he have done what Bute did then he'd be more of a name in Britain by now. When you fight so often away from home you don't get the chance to build up your fan base in your own country.

And also, you neglected to comment on my second point. Please why would anyone sign up for a tournament where a fellow competitor is allowed special privileges? Ok, so Andre Ward was the best fighter there but I would truly have loved to see what would happen if he tried those butts on Kessler in Denmark? Disqualification loss I think.

davidemore wrote:In complete contrast to what everyone else says about Bute, the more I think about it the more I actually think he did the right thing in not signing up for the Super 6.

Why would you sign up to a punishing 5 fight competition where you are legally obliged to fight tough fights one after the other? You have to take into context that these guys are not signing for a snooker tournament. So if you have a tough, tough fight - win or lose you at least want the option of taking some time off between the next fight or having a softer fight if you lose. Was never a fan of the Super 6 format I have to admit.
===========================

This is what is wrong with modern day boxing fans. Sorry if it sounds harsh but this is a losing attitude towards a great, amazing tournament. Negative post here superboon, shame.

No. Its a realistic post. Boxing is in the entertainment business. For the boxers, its a business first. That post understands that.

azania wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:God forbid us boxing fans think that maybe, just maybe, a fighter should seek out the best names available in order to prove that he's worthy of 'world champion' status eh, Azania?

Where are you getting this idea that he'd automatically be taking a pay cut if he actually dusted off his passport for a big fight abroad, or fought (even in Canada) against a Showtime fighter? I actually despair at this kind of attitude. There's only so much money a man needs and then the rest if just for showing off, as the old saying goes.

Yes, boxers are (for all intents and purposes) self-employed individuals. But boxing is still a sport. Maybe the excuse of Bute wanting to earn every single penny he can out of the sport might constitute a decent reason for him seeing out the rest of his career without facing anyone of note in your opinion, but not for me. Regardless of whichever reason he cares to put forward, if a fight with either Kessler, Froch or Ward doesn't materialize in 2012, then Bute will become a fighter of absolutely no consequence in my eyes.

If he seeks out the best he should be rewarded for it and not to take a pay cut. I am self employed. I have to negotiate every contract I take on. Some pay more than others. Some are more challenging that others and as such the more difficult ones pay more. Same principle for Bute or any other boxer.

You are asking for a boxer to be alturistic. It doesn't happen and never has. I'd like to see Bute tested. He looks a good boxer, but I appreciate the business of boxing, the risk/reward situation. And knowing a boxer who suffered a severe brain injury, I'm all for boxers maximising as much as possible. They are the ones taking the risks.

Claiming benefits doesn't make you self employed, Az!

And also, you neglected to comment on my second point. Please why would anyone sign up for a tournament where a fellow competitor is allowed special privileges? Ok, so Andre Ward was the best fighter there but I would truly have loved to see what would happen if he tried those butts on Kessler in Denmark? Disqualification loss I think.

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True Ward got too many fights at home, but this is a seperate issue to you bashing fighters for taking on all comers. And you don't have to be an uber fan to think fighting the best is a good thing. It's what all fans should want. Bute should have stepped up two years ago, possibly three years ago, but he didn't. Now he needs to suffer the slight possibility of a lesser pay check, and also suffer getting his ass handed to him when he steps up. Look what happened to Berto, fought cans and hags for HBO, stepped up and lost in his first challenge, Ortiz. Hope Bute goes the same way.

Boon you need to think about the sport as a whole, what fighters like Lucian Bute do for it, what it says about world champions.

azania wrote:

davidemore wrote:In complete contrast to what everyone else says about Bute, the more I think about it the more I actually think he did the right thing in not signing up for the Super 6.

Why would you sign up to a punishing 5 fight competition where you are legally obliged to fight tough fights one after the other? You have to take into context that these guys are not signing for a snooker tournament. So if you have a tough, tough fight - win or lose you at least want the option of taking some time off between the next fight or having a softer fight if you lose. Was never a fan of the Super 6 format I have to admit.
===========================

This is what is wrong with modern day boxing fans. Sorry if it sounds harsh but this is a losing attitude towards a great, amazing tournament. Negative post here superboon, shame.

No. Its a realistic post. Boxing is in the entertainment business. For the boxers, its a business first. That post understands that.

Ultimately Azania I think there needs to be some balance between fighting cans for tons of dosh and fighting hard fights for glory. I think Bute has not yet got the cans for cash/glory fights balance right as he does need a couple of defining wins if he is to be remembered as a great fighter. But I mainatin that he made the correct decision not to enter a rigged tournament.

Azania, Duran had an option agreement in place with a guarantee of $2.3 million to face Cervantes in 1980 in South America, before Pryor flattened him. Instead, Duran opted to take a $1.65 million purse against Ray Leonard in Montreal (incidentally, Leonard earned $8.5 million that night). Would you have preferred it if Duran had played it a bit safer and taken on the dangerous but still more beatable Cervantes?

I'm sorry, but there's absolutely no way we should applaud Bute or be 'understanding' if he goes through 2012 and the remainder of his career going through the motions against the same sort of opposition he has been facing over the past four years. He may (I'm still awaiting concrete proof of this, by the way) lose a little if he (God forbid) takes on a Froch, Kessler or Ward, but if he were to win such a fight his earning potential for the future will increase hugely anyway. No doubt, you'll ignore this point.

You seem hell-bent on defending fighters when they really needn't be defended, or clearly have genuine questions to answer. Dress it up whichever way you like, but if Bute took your advice, it would be bad for the sport, simple as that. And the sport is bigger than any individual.

God forbid Bute steps outside of his bedroom, puts on his shorts and shows he has a pair. I mean this is the big leagues, and he is fighting the minors but calling himself a true champion. He aint nothing until he fights a Kessler, Froch, Dirrell or Ward. I mean, Dirrell stepped up and he lacks the mental attributes of a Froch or Ward or Kessler. So, what's this French Queen doing? Heavens forbid he actually put his belt on the line in a meaningful fight for a purse that will no doubt near the 1 million dollar mark.

The fragility of boon's argument echoes the fragility of Bute's spine.

We know who JMM, Mayweather, Pac Man, Froch, Ward, Hopkins are becuase of their will to fight big. What do we know Bute for?

88Chris05 wrote:Azania, Duran had an option agreement in place with a guarantee of $2.3 million to face Cervantes in 1980 in South America, before Pryor flattened him. Instead, Duran opted to take a $1.65 million purse against Ray Leonard in Montreal (incidentally, Leonard earned $8.5 million that night). Would you have preferred it if Duran had played it a bit safer and taken on the dangerous but still more beatable Cervantes?

I'm sorry, but there's absolutely no way we should applaud Bute or be 'understanding' if he goes through 2012 and the remainder of his career going through the motions against the same sort of opposition he has been facing over the past four years. He may (I'm still awaiting concrete proof of this, by the way) lose a little if he (God forbid) takes on a Froch, Kessler or Ward, but if he were to win such a fight his earning potential for the future will increase hugely anyway. No doubt, you'll ignore this point.

You seem hell-bent on defending fighters when they really needn't be defended, or clearly have genuine questions to answer. Dress it up whichever way you like, but if Bute took your advice, it would be bad for the sport, simple as that. And the sport is bigger than any individual.

I didn't know that about Duran. Credit to him. I wonder how much of that was his inability to make LWW seeing as he jumped straight to WW. Nevertheless, all credit to him for doing that. Also much criticism should be directed at his management team for negotiating such a terrible contract and purse. Look how they jumped at a rematch when Duran was busy partying. Another thread altogether.

I am not saying Bute should be applauded. But yes one has to understand the business side of boxing. Low risk/high reward is the norm and I understand that perfectly. Were the risk higher, then fighters should be paid accordingly. There are some fighters who are high risk and very low reward, hence they are avoided like the proverbial. Herol Graham for one.

I'm putting myself as a manager of Bute (or any boxer here). My job is to seure the best possible pay for that boxer with the least reward. If it means staying at home, getting huge purses by fighting Senor Crapola, then so be it. When a threat comes along and my guy wants the fight, it is my job to secure the best possible deal for him. Its a business.

Ward is in a difficult position. He is a class act but doesn't generate income. High risk/low reward. In that case if I were the manager of Bute, I would insist the fight be held in Canada and my guy getting the bigger share of the purse split. Otherwise no fight. The onus is therefore on Ward to lower his demands to accommodate such a fight.

davidemore wrote:God forbid Bute steps outside of his bedroom, puts on his shorts and shows he has a pair. I mean this is the big leagues, and he is fighting the minors but calling himself a true champion. He aint nothing until he fights a Kessler, Froch, Dirrell or Ward. I mean, Dirrell stepped up and he lacks the mental attributes of a Froch or Ward or Kessler. So, what's this French Queen doing? Heavens forbid he actually put his belt on the line in a meaningful fight for a purse that will no doubt near the 1 million dollar mark.

The fragility of boon's argument echoes the fragility of Bute's spine.

Why shouldn't the others fight in Canada?

davidemore wrote:I want to see the best fight the best. But what I am not prepared to see is a promoter milking a boxer by paying less than the market rate. If Bute gets $1m for fighting Carlos Crapola in Quebec, why would be be paid $500k for taking on Froch? Who do you think will be laughing all the way to the bank without so much as taking a punch?
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terrible post, i mean no one is milking Lucian Bute, and no one should respect the fact that Bute beats up sub par opposition for an overpriced payday. I could really eat this comment alive, verbally bash it, but i wont. I will say this though, how do you know a Froch fight makes less money? how do you know that fighting a name, a real fighter in Froch makes less money. Come to England Bute, fight to 20,000 and make the same money... didn't think so. Stay at home.

Feel free to satisfy your hunger. But whilst you're at it, what's to stop Froch or whoever else from going to Bute's front room and fighting there? I reckon they'd get paid more for it. Why should Bute go there for the same? Surely he should get paid more?

Overpriced? What are you on about? No boxer is overpaid. In fact I'd say that most are underpaid.

davidemore wrote:We know who JMM, Mayweather, Pac Man, Froch, Ward, Hopkins are becuase of their will to fight big. What do we know Bute for?

Outside of Froch and Khan, can you tell me a recent UK World champ who didn't stay at home? Hatton is the only one and he did so because he got paid more.

azania wrote:

davidemore wrote:We know who JMM, Mayweather, Pac Man, Froch, Ward, Hopkins are becuase of their will to fight big. What do we know Bute for?

Outside of Froch and Khan, can you tell me a recent UK World champ who didn't stay at home? Hatton is the only one and he did so because he got paid more.

Strictly speaking, Lewis. How about Benn? Won both his world titles on the road, as well as beating Barkley Stateside. Haye beat Mormeck in France and Valuev in Germany for his career belts and took on Wladimir in Germany, too.

davidemore wrote:God forbid Bute steps outside of his bedroom, puts on his shorts and shows he has a pair. I mean this is the big leagues, and he is fighting the minors but calling himself a true champion. He aint nothing until he fights a Kessler, Froch, Dirrell or Ward. I mean, Dirrell stepped up and he lacks the mental attributes of a Froch or Ward or Kessler. So, what's this French Queen doing? Heavens forbid he actually put his belt on the line in a meaningful fight for a purse that will no doubt near the 1 million dollar mark.

The fragility of boon's argument echoes the fragility of Bute's spine.

Its comments like this that really gets on my goat. I shows a clear lack of understand about boxing. The boxer is told who he is fighting and when he is fighting. His manager decided all that for him./ The boxer has little to no say as to who is put infront of him. You often hear Manny saying that he fights anyone his management team tells him to fight. That is how it works. Maybe Bute's team have little faith in his ability. But to refer to Bute as spineless, seeing as it is he who risks his life anytime he steps between the ropes is grossly offensive. Are you a pro boxer who takes a punch to the face for a living? If not, you should never refer to any boxer as a coward.

The boxer is told who he is fighting and when he is fighting

Then why did you hear Hatton, JC and umpteen other fighters saying they're not fighting a certain guy?

Ward said he wouldn't be fighting BHop or Bute as the most recent example i can think of.

You said it yourself, it's only the boxers who are getting hit and so why should they do this and that - why should they let others make decisions about who hits them in the face? You seem to forget a manager/team is on the boxers payroll i.e. the boxer is the boss and the boss makes the final call.

Unless of course Ward after saying he isn't fighting Bute etc is actually going to be forced to fight him by his management team?!

88Chris05 wrote:

azania wrote:

davidemore wrote:We know who JMM, Mayweather, Pac Man, Froch, Ward, Hopkins are becuase of their will to fight big. What do we know Bute for?

Outside of Froch and Khan, can you tell me a recent UK World champ who didn't stay at home? Hatton is the only one and he did so because he got paid more.

Strictly speaking, Lewis. How about Benn? Won both his world titles on the road, as well as beating Barkley Stateside. Haye beat Mormeck in France and Valuev in Germany for his career belts and took on Wladimir in Germany, too.

Lewis was always an "internationalist" and fought everywhere to build up a fan base. Benn was on a rebuilding move and Ambrose Mendy took him to USA to get the sparring and to build him up again. Beat De Witt (or Berkley). But after the Watcon loss, he was seen as slightly damaged and Dewitt wouldn't travel to fight anyway.

Haye went to Paris and Germany because the champ wouldn't leave their home base. Asking Bute to leave Canada for less money to fight Ward of Froch is ridiculous seeing as all would make more money in Canada.

coxy0001 wrote:

The boxer is told who he is fighting and when he is fighting

Then why did you hear Hatton, JC and umpteen other fighters saying they're not fighting a certain guy?

Ward said he wouldn't be fighting BHop or Bute as the most recent example i can think of.

You said it yourself, it's only the boxers who are getting hit and so why should they do this and that - why should they let others make decisions about who hits them in the face? You seem to forget a manager/team is on the boxers payroll i.e. the boxer is the boss and the boss makes the final call.

Unless of course Ward after saying he isn't fighting Bute etc is actually going to be forced to fight him by his management team?!

Hatton said that in relation to Witter I believe. Another example of high risk/low reward. Financially he would make the same amount of more fighting past it named fighters. A unification match would have been easy o set up but didn't happen.

I believe it was Hop who said he didn't want Ward. And Ward was questioning why he should fight Bute seeing as he took the easy option of not fighting in the S6.

But if the money's right, they would fight whoever is put in front of them.

Of course its the boxer who employs the manager. But if you believe that the boxer actually has the powwer then you are deluding yourself. Its the promoters and manager who have the power. Larry Holmes (love that bloke for quotes) said that "boxing is the only business where the lions are scared of the rats". Too bloody true also.

azania your opinions are more varied than a hippies wardrobe.

You go from saying that when a fighter wants a big fight it's the promoters job to, a fighter has no say in who he fights. Then you ramble on about fighters being underpaid. Wow.

So, what are you actually saying? That fighters need to be more like Mayweather and dictate their own careers? Bute could have but he signed up to Showtime mid Super Six instead. Are you saying all fighters are underpaid? Really? Even Manny and Floyd, who pull in 25 million a fight plus, regardless of how long it goes? Think in relative terms azania.

I never said coward either, you said that azania, get your facts right. Bute, RELATIVELY, is spineless to me. No boxer is a coward, you are lying to live on this thread azania, you are just saying things to be heard. Like a boxer pre-fight hyping, like Tyson wanting to eat babies, you are saying whatever comes to mind to provoke.

Why do boxers switch promoters etc and get quoted that they're not getting the fighters and fights they want as a reason?

In the case of Pacquiao he's been given a list of Marquez, Peterson, Cotto and Bradley to choose from.

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/blog/170941-pacquiaos-pick-of-four-bradley-cotto-marquez-or-peterson

Quoting Arum:

And we're going to be offering Manny four potential opponents -- Cotto, Marquez, Bradley and Peterson.

Doesn't sound like Arum's gonna be telling Manny who to fight in my mind.

Doesn't sound like Arum's gonna be telling Manny who to fight in my mind.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So true coxxy, no doubt we could find a lot of these examples. B-Hop, he chooses, Ward, Froch, Sturm, they all choose and dictate their futures. Azania is clutching a straws like a baby chasing the teet.