Rates these in your HOF Order (RJJ, Hopkins, Oscar, Manny, Mayweather)

All of them multiweight champions who spent a lot of their career at the top end of the p4p lists. Looking at those 5 names apart from Oscar all the rest are still active (though Floyd is temporary retired). With that said I don't think the remaining active fighters can do much more to improve there status in the HOF lists and yes I'm making the assumption that Manny/Mayweather will never happen.

So based on their careers, if you had to order them in a mini HOF list, who would you have as top? What would your order be? Is there a standout name there, would it be close from 1 to 5?

1. Pacquiao
2. Mayweather
3. Hopkins
4. Jones
5. De la Hoya

Jones, Mayweather, Pac, Hopkins and Oscar.

1. Bernard Hopkins
2. Oscar de la Hoya
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Floyd Mayweather
5. Roy Jones Jr

1. Hopkins
2. Mayweather
3. Pacquiao
4. Jones jr.
5. De La Hoya

Colonial Lion wrote:1. Bernard Hopkins
2. Oscar de la Hoya
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Floyd Mayweather
5. Roy Jones Jr

Have to say that I'm surprised you'd have De la Hoya above Pacquiao, Mayweather and Jones, Lion. Would be interested in hearing you're reasoning if you've got time to post it, mate.

88Chris05 wrote:

Colonial Lion wrote:1. Bernard Hopkins
2. Oscar de la Hoya
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Floyd Mayweather
5. Roy Jones Jr

Have to say that I'm surprised you'd have De la Hoya above Pacquiao, Mayweather and Jones, Lion. Would be interested in hearing you're reasoning if you've got time to post it, mate.

I think De la Hoya ticks almost all the boxes for greatness. I consider him and Hopkins of the 5 to be the real throwback fighters of the list. There was little or no manufacturing in their career and they consistently took on a high standard of opposition.

First would be De la Hoyas contribution to the sport. De la Hoya was a major influence on boxing and helped keep the sport in the mainstream with his willingness to involve himself in fights that the sport wanted and needed. It would have been easy to milk his image and popularity by hand picking but he did the opposite really taking on the hardest fights and in my view lifted all of boxing up a level at a time when the marquee heavyweight division had nothing going for it and boxing was being sidelined. His star power was used in all the right ways.

Then you have talent and ability. Excellent amateur career with an Olympic gold. Matched tough relatively early with some big scalps before the age of 25 and titles in 2 weight classes. I think he was an excellent fighter and but for the tiniest of margins his record could have been right up there with the very best.

This leads on to his record. It here I think he tends to get slaughtered and in a sense rather harshly. Razor thin losses to Trinidad and Mosely. I think he had the beating of Trinidad and bad cornering transpired to lose it for him when I thought it was obvious his ability indicated he was better. Mosely was close and the rematch is now tainted with a big mark due to Moselys steroid abuse. I also think its a pity he didnt get the opportunity to rematch Trinidad and Mosely to try and set the record straight. Due to the infrequency of fights these days this is more difficult but I believe in past eras De la Hoya would have matched off with the likes of Trinidad and Mosely many times and my instinct is to say he would have come out on top ultimately. Both fights again could have gone either way. I dont think Oscar was ever a middleweight so Hopkins was too tall and order for him. Outside of that you have wins over Chavez, Whitaker, Vargas, Mayorga, Quartey, Ruelas, Gatti, Campas, Hernandez, Camacho and I would struggle to think of a modern fighter who has fought a higher level of competition across severall divisions. Im not going to get into the whole 5/6/7 weight multi champion argument because I think its redundant in this day and age for the most part but I do think De la Hoya established himself as the man for periods at Lightweight, Light welterweight and Welterweight.

I think all of these factors should be considered when looking at legacy and not just a superficial approach of rattling off multi weights titles in various divisions which can be used as a blanket for cherry picking and manufacturing a record. A fighters record is the direct function of the competition he has faced and to reiterate what I said earlier - I dont think any modern fighter has faced better. Other than Hopkins, the other fighters on that list have in varying degrees been guilty of using weight hopping simply to cherry pick or add superficial straps (Jones at heavyweight for example).

When I encompass everything about a boxer that in my mind symbolises greatness then there are several factors of consideration and on the strength of them all I could only put Hopkins above De la Hoya from the fighters on that list.

Based purely on their in-ring credentials;

Pacquiao
Mayweather Jr
Hopkins
RJJ
Oscar

Based on the overall contribution to the sport;

Oscar
Pacquiao
Hopkins
Mayweather Jr
RJJ

De La Hoya was certainly a great fighter. The strikes against him are that he never totally cleaned out a division and fell just short in several of his biggest fights.

He certainly LOOKED great at lightweight and light-welter; it is just a shame that he was a fight or two away from establishing himself as a true great at either weight. Excellent fighter though.

1. Pacquiao
2. Jones
3. Hopkins
4. De La Hoya
5. Mayweather


Amazed at how low jones is rated; i think it's a case of boxing being cruel on underachievers as jones had potential to be the GOAT, but if you look at what they've achieved RJJ is a clear second in terms of achievement

1.) RJJ- Middleweight champion to heavyweight champion says it all, heavyweight title will always be the best/biggest title to have despite the competiton.
2.)Bhop- was in jail for a majority of his teen years, became one of the most successful middleweights ever, look at his record, and at 46 is still one of the best around.
3.)Manny- Pip him over floyd purely because of his fun style and being a '8 weight champ', although some of them IMO don't tell the whole story
4.)Floyd- Unbeaten and was #1 p4p for most of his career untill he became inactive, a brilliant boxer
5.)DLH- His losses to three of the above, despite how it happened, put him last on the list. Loved him but as far as all 5 of their records went, he failed on the big stage IMO.

It really does depend on what criteria you're going on here. Just by how good they were on one night at their very best I would rate it as:
1. Roy Jones Jr
2. Mayweather
3. Hopkins
4. Pacquaio
5. De La Hoya
The top 2 are very very close and I might change my mind on them at some stage

If you take into account how long each was a top level fighter though then you get a different looking list in my opinion:
1. Hopkins
2. Mayweather
3. Roy jones jr
4. De La Hoya
5. Pacquaio
Pacquaio could still move up here with his still being active. I guess Mayweather could as well if he fights for another 20 years to overtake Hopkins but that is unlikely.

1)Pacquiao: 8 weight world champ
2)RJJ: Won world titles from middleweight to heavyweight
3)Oscar 6 weight world champ
4)Hopkins Dominated the middleweight division for over a decade
5)Mayweather Ducked a lot of the top name in the sport.

D4thincarnation wrote:1)Pacquiao: 8 weight world champ
2)RJJ: Won world titles from middleweight to heavyweight
3)Oscar 6 weight world champ
4)Hopkins Dominated the middleweight division for over a decade
5)Mayweather Ducked a lot of the top name in the sport.

Didn't know you were a Manny fan, D4.

1. Mayweather
2. RJJ
3. Hopkins
4. Oscar
5. Pacquiao

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:1)Pacquiao: 8 weight world champ
2)RJJ: Won world titles from middleweight to heavyweight
3)Oscar 6 weight world champ
4)Hopkins Dominated the middleweight division for over a decade
5)Mayweather Ducked a lot of the top name in the sport.

Didn't know you were a Manny fan, D4.

Nothing to do with being a fan, it just my unbiased view on the situation

I'm watching this thread.....very closely. I can see where its heading.

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:1)Pacquiao: 8 weight world champ
2)RJJ: Won world titles from middleweight to heavyweight
3)Oscar 6 weight world champ
4)Hopkins Dominated the middleweight division for over a decade
5)Mayweather Ducked a lot of the top name in the sport.

Didn't know you were a Manny fan, D4.

Nothing to do with being a fan, it just my unbiased view on the situation

Good for you.

Everybody likes to read an unbiased opinion.

Personally I feel it is a little too easy to get into the HOF, The HOF should be reserved for the elite fighters

D4thincarnation wrote:Personally I feel it is a little too easy to get into the HOF, The HOF should be reserved for the elite fighters

Surely you'd let at least 4 of these guys in? Or would you go a bit tougher and just let in one?

D4thincarnation wrote:Personally I feel it is a little too easy to get into the HOF, The HOF should be reserved for the elite fighters

So do I, mate.

All due respect to Barry McGuigan, but it's beyond me to understand how he qualifies.

Anyway, I'm away. Have a good one, all.

Cya Windy

I have my finger on the delete button ready for the inevitable FMJ/Pac stuff.

Of the five, Oscar has undoubtedly done more for the sport.

azania wrote:I have my finger on the delete button ready for the inevitable FMJ/Pac stuff.

You are sounding a bit trigger happy. What next pre-emtive strikes?

D4thincarnation wrote:

azania wrote:I have my finger on the delete button ready for the inevitable FMJ/Pac stuff.

You are sounding a bit trigger happy. What next pre-emtive strikes?

Let us know if a red dot appears on your chest.

Well to say your predictable would be the understatement of the century

D4thincarnation wrote:

azania wrote:I have my finger on the delete button ready for the inevitable FMJ/Pac stuff.

You are sounding a bit trigger happy. What next pre-emtive strikes?

Good idea.

Floyd
Hopkins
RJJ
Manny
Oscar.

Floyd is the best fighter of his generation with a CV to back it up, quality wins against top opposition.
Hopkins, although not a talented as Jones he longevity at the top. He is a true freak of nature.
RJJ for me lacks those defining fights
Manny on the surface has a very good resume, however, dig a little deeper and it all comes apart with callous catchweights and sickening stipulations.
Oscar was unlucky with some decisions but was gifted others. Quality fights who would be higher if it was only based on talent.

Hopkins
Pacman
Jones Jr
Mayweather
De La Hoya

If we count how cool their names are it's Oscar De La Hoya in #1 though.

Pacquiao
Hopkins
Mayweather
De La Hoya
RJJ

Manny top as I feel he has achieved the most throughout his career in terms of winning titles from fly to welter (cant accept him as LMW chammp but thats a different arguement) and he's beaten several other ATG's in barrera, marquez and morales as well as top fighters of his era like hatton and cotto. Hopkins for his longevity and dominance of the middleweight division. Mayweather, although the most talented of the five IMO doesnt quite have the resume to pip manny and b-hop, but a nailed on ATG nonetheless. Oscar next with his wins over JCC, sweet pea and quartey and six weight titles just beats RJJ. Oscar may have lost most of his biggest fights but he did enough in his career to outshine the athletically more gifted RJJ, who's finest moment was the defeat of prime Toney IMO. I suppose there's the argument that RJJ has tarnished his own legacy by fighting on too long, but even if he'd retired after winning the HW strap I'd still have the same order.

Where would you guys have Morales, Barrera and Marquez if they were added to this 'ere list?

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:1.) RJJ- Middleweight champion to heavyweight champion says it all, heavyweight title will always be the best/biggest title to have despite the competiton.
2.)Bhop- was in jail for a majority of his teen years, became one of the most successful middleweights ever, look at his record, and at 46 is still one of the best around.
3.)Manny- Pip him over floyd purely because of his fun style and being a '8 weight champ', although some of them IMO don't tell the whole story
4.)Floyd- Unbeaten and was #1 p4p for most of his career untill he became inactive, a brilliant boxer
5.)DLH- His losses to three of the above, despite how it happened, put him last on the list. Loved him but as far as all 5 of their records went, he failed on the big stage IMO.

I don't think it's fair to have De La Hoya's losses to those 3 as ways of judging him. Hopkins was much bigger and Oscar had no business being at Middleweight; he was also slightly past his best by this time.

Mayweather beat him; but Oscar ran him extrememly close. To the point where I think a prime Welterweight fight between the pair might have been very different.

The Pacquiao defeat was nothing to judge him on. One, look at what Pacquiao has achieved after this fight. Secondly, De la Hoya was years past his best at this time; he was practically a corpse. dead at the weight; plus his reflexes and hand speed were gone.

I'm not saying De La Hoya deserves to be higher on the list. But he should be judged on his prime, which for me is clearly 1995-2001.

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Floyd Mayweather
3. Roy Jones Jr
4. Bernard Hopkins
5. Oscar De La Hoya

Good Stuff.

I choose these fighters as I think they are very close to each other and expected varied answers off everyone.
As its lunch time I've taken everyone's votes and awarded the following points to positions:

1st = 5 points
2nd = 4 points
3rd = 3 points
4th = 2 points
5th = 1 point.

For those than did two votes for varied reason I have include both to get a balance for their vote.
So at the moment the positions are as follows:

1st = Manny/Hopkins 56pts
2nd = Mayweather 51pts
3rd = RJJ 48pts
4th = Oscar = 29pts

So Manny/Hopkins share 1st place with the rest not too far off them. Only Oscar seems to have come badly in it.
and finally the number of first places awared to each fighter are as follows:

Manny got 6 votes
Hopkins got 4 votes
RJJ got 3 votes
Mayweather got 2 votes
Oscar got 1 vote

1. Mayweather
2. Pacquiao
3. Jones Junior
4. Hopkins
5. De La Hoya