Newcastle Falcons - Post Relegation Changes

OK fellow sufferers....

I think its fairly obvious we are heading in one direction at the end of the season....

What changes do you want to see?

New management for a start....who would you like to see us get...and would they come?

Which players would you get rid of and which would you keep? And if you say keep Gopperth ill shoot you

Get rid of the management, maybe see about Ashton coming in on a part time basis and then poach a coach from another championship side.

Player wise cut out a lot of the foreign guys. Bring in local players and get the team spirit going. Play for each other and score those tries.

If I were you I would look around all the top premiership academies and poach some players.

In all seriousness if you can offer a good youngster first team rugby they'll be enticed. E.g. go for 4th choice players. Plenty of quality twiddling their thumbs.

Smart signings are half the battle. The other half is obviously the coaching.

As yappysnap says you could look at Brian Ashton. There's also Dave Ellis and Dean Richards on the market.

It might be difficult to afford them but they might well fancy a challenge.

Can we have Hudson back? - he should never have been allowed to leave Bath and then we could lose Caldwell, who isn't worth the money.

Personally I would be sorry to see Falcons relegated but then their current rugby is neither pretty or effective, as they don't have the muscle up front like Exeter or Worcs and the backs don't get much ball from the kiwi halfback.

You'd be losing some big names like Murray, Hogg and Gopperth but you seem to have plenty young talent kicking around the squad. Ditch the average Saffas like Uys and Van Der whatshisname in the second row and you'll soon be okay on the wages front. If you can keep the home grown front row Hudson, Welch and Swinson that's the basis for a decent pack.

Give the young fly half Catterick (has been playing 15 but I think he's the promising 10?) and Fitzpatrick the 10/12 axis and you've got talent in Fielden (if he stays) and Tait in the back three. Add one or two good AP and Championship players and you should be fine.

Not sure Newcastle will lose Hogg actually. His international aspirations are probably over now due to the competition in the Scotland squad at 8 and by all accounts he's settled well at Newcastle.

The key will be to ditch Alan Tait. He's a cracking fellow, really honest bloke and was a legend of a player for Scotland and the Lions, but he hasn't been able to cut it as a top flight coach. I think he's tried things, but I just don't think there's been enough nous in the pack to win games in the Aviva.

I think the Falcons will be fine next season to come back up provided there's some sensible rebuilding. It's a young squad with plenty of talent. A couple of hardened veterans and a top coach and you'll come back.

Dean Richards would be an excellent appointment (not sure when his ban runs out). I think Steve Meehan is also knocking about. Good coach for a young backline, provided you also got a good strong forwards coach (Neil Back?).

provided you also got a good strong forwards coach (Neil Back?)..

Backie is at Rugby Lions who have a wealthy benefactor.

Fair dos.

As an alternative, Newcastle could look to see who to top forwards coaches are in Division One and poach, rather than looking for a name or recent ex-international. They might get someone who can coach doing that.

I read in the Sunday Times that the Pirates had a really good back division last season (from which Quins stole Matt Hopper), well drilled and creative. Maybe see who is coaching them. Peter Wright in Scotland is tipped to be a professional forwards coach at some stage, having done good and notable things in the amateur set-up in Scotland. Might be worth a go getting an experienced coach like that, someone who'll actually do some coaching.

Would George McGuigan be worth taking to Ireland, he's been the Irish under 18's hooker, maybe to a move Connacht?

I thik the key is that we have a very strong academy....and whilst the championship is a physically tough league...if we show the youngsters faith ...then they will come good.

Not sure if we could keep Hudson, Murray etc...but we could wipe out 90%of the deadwood foreigners making a nice little earning doing nothing.

Outs -
Van der heijden
Fondse
Wells
Uys
Murray - Would like to keep
Hudson - Would like to keep
Gopperth
Helleur
R+M Mayhew
Sheriffe
Shortland
Goosen
Manning

1 Shiells (If we can keep his ambitions of a Scotland cap in check)
2 Connor
3 Fearns
4 Beaumont
5 Swinson
6 Wilson
7 Welch
8 Tu'ifua (If we can keep him)

9 Pilgrim
10 Catterick
11 Fielden
12 Fitzpatrick
13 Eves
14 Hufanga
15 Tait

Kingshu wrote:Would George McGuigan be worth taking to Ireland, he's been the Irish under 18's hooker, maybe to a move Connacht?

If he was propping definitly. At hooker we are fairly well stocked though with Rory Best, Damien Varley, Sean Cronin, Mike Sherry all still in their 20s. We also have the option on Richardt the Saffer Strauss.

Regarding Newcastle, are they still churning out players like they used to. I remember Newcastle coming to Thomond Park when I was a teenager and they were brilliant with all the Munster fans. Munster train using a public gym and Newcastle used the same one. We were all down that way to catch a glimpse of the players. Charvis and Wilkinson came right over chatting to two 14 year olds - great ambassadors for the team.

Yeah we are Stag - lots of talented young kids....its just frustrating that Tait has adopted the policy of bringing in and using foreign journeymen...

An example is the one trick pony Gopperth who whilst having a tremendous boot doesnt know how to pass the ball, when we have a young lad Catterick who is another from the FH conveyor belt....and should be playing

Hopefully if we do go down, Tait will be booted out - Deano can come in ...and we can keep some of the quality players (Murray, Hudson etc though i doubt it) and use all the local talent with them . I hope we do a Quins or a Saints...and come back rejuventated.....

I hope so. My fear is that you go down the route of Bristol and spend several years out of the top flight.

Yeah thats what i fear aswell....we're not a huge club...and dont have a huge support....

Maybe the RFU should use The Falcons as a development team similar to Connacht, this would have a few benefits for all.

1 - Help develop the game up north,
2 - Give talented English qualified youngsters 1st team rugby in the championship and if they get promoted the Jeff (nothing against foreign imports so long as it’s not at the expense of losing English qualified players to the lower leagues, which in most cases it is)

Some will say that they don't want Newcastle being a feeder club for the big boys, but in truth you already are, this way when other teams have academy players who need 1st team rugby they could be loaned to the Falcons for one or two seasons until they're seen to be ready.

So in a way you would be getting something back.

For various reasons players you developed have been allowed (and at times forced) to leave and replaced by average journeymen.

Imagine the backline if you had kept some of Mickey Young, Dickson boys, Flood, Matt Tait, Rory Clegg, Rob Miller, Tim Visser alongside your current crop of locally produced players.

It looks like the academy and local clubs are still producing players so all is not doom and gloom.

So should you go down (pretty sure you will finish bottom - but may be reprieved depending on who wins the Championship) I reckon you need to:

Re-build the links with the regions clubs - playing on Friday nights or Sundays (bye bye Murray) so that those involved with amateur rugby can attend. Free kids tickets & reduced price adult tickets available to schools and local clubs. Perhaps some arrangement with United?

Then on to coaching. Yes Deano would be available and you know what you would get. However perhaps it would be better to reflect a new, young dynamic club by appointing new, young dynamic coaches. Phil greening and Alex King would be a good signing by any ambitious club.

LT its alarming when you see the team we could have put out from players who have left even just over the last couple of seasons.

We need a coach who will utilise the exceptional academy that we have...but also be smart enough and have the pulling power to bring in the correct older guys....with a bit of nouse and experience.... to get us straight back up.

Sorry Hersh...but i would vote against becoming a feeder club.....

GeordieFalcon wrote:Yeah we are Stag - lots of talented young kids....its just frustrating that Tait has adopted the policy of bringing in and using foreign journeymen...

I'd say he's damned if he does and damned if he don't...

Not really Trumpton....if he went with the policy of using the kids with a few seasoned guys in there like Murray and Hudson.....noone would have a problem...we'd respect him for using our resources and the academy....

GeordieFalcon wrote:Not really Trumpton....if he went with the policy of using the kids with a few seasoned guys in there like Murray and Hudson.....noone would have a problem...we'd respect him for using our resources and the academy....

But you'd still probably be watching Championship rugby next year. See what I mean.

Geordie, It seems to me that the die was cast in the embryonic days of professionalism when Sir John Hall over-extended the club and provided an unsustainable jolt to many English sides.

Gosforth was a perfectly successful club at the time, but the dash for cash was based on a pipe-dream after the fleeting initial success. Since then it has been a case of death by a thousand cuts and result has been to become a selling club propped up by expensive foreign players who failed to pull their weight.

I'd be interested for your comments on https://www.606v2.com/t21104-bi-ownership-models.

Sugar daddy teams should (for their own self-interest) have pushed for franchises/ring-fencing. Which would have annoyed me no-end.

Seems to me that you can't expect mega-wealthy owners to hang around in perpetuity though...

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Sorry Hersh...but i would vote against becoming a feeder club.....

But you already are, just an unofficial one, at least if you were a proper feeder club you would reap the benefits more.

just as a matter of intrest did Newcastle lose many fans when they rebranded from Gosforth to Newcastle, and changed from green and white hoops to a black kit, are fans bitter at losing the name Gosforth, and the green and white, or did fans accept it for the greater good of the Club?

It's just an intrest to compare a long established team rebranding to attract a larger supporter base (presumly the move was to be more like Newcastle Utd, and have Newcastle in name and same playing colours to feel more of a Newcastle team and have a stronger affinitly with Newcastle) to bring in more supporters at the expense of losing thier own identity, voluntarily. When some Welsh regions refused/refuse to do this with pressure added.

Many argue the regions would lose support with a big change in name and strip, but with Gosforth we have an example of a club that has done this, to use as a case sample.

Dean Richards comes available to coach again in the summer, although I’ve heard he’s been contacted by Worcester.


Almost certain to lose:

Jimmy Gopperth
Ally Hogg
Euan Murray
James Hudson
Jamie Helleur



Hope to keep:

Props:
Jon Golding
James Hall
Darren Fearn
Dan Fraizer
Grant Shiels

HK:
Michael Mayhew
An Other
An Other

Locks:
Andrew Van Der Heijden
Tim Swinson
Josh Beaumont
An Other

Flankers:
Will Welch
Mark Wilson
Redford Pennycook
Taiasina Tuifua

No.8:
Richard Mayhew
Joe Robinson

SH:
Jordi Pasqualin
Will Chudley
Joel Hodgson (Ultimately where I think he’ll end up)

FH:
Jeremy Manning
Tom Catterick

Centres:
James Fitzpatrick
Luke Eves
Jamie Helleur
An Other

Wing:
Alex Tait
Zach kibirige
Ryan Shortland
AN Other

Fullback:
Tom Catterick (covering)
Greg Goosen
An Other

HERSH wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Sorry Hersh...but i would vote against becoming a feeder club.....

But you already are, just an unofficial one, at least if you were a proper feeder club you would reap the benefits more.

I might be wrong, but I think we entered into a cooperation agreement with Leeds and Sale last season. Leeds have really benefited from some of the players loaned to them, but so have Sale (Andy Titteral). Perhaps we'll make more of it next season.

I should add you're welcome to Michael Bradley in the summer. He should be free.

Looks like James Grindal will be available come the summer as well. Leeds have had come success loaning players from Sale as mentioned above but also have loaned Ford from Tigers. Newcastle and AP clubs could benefit from similar short term deals in order to bolster certain positions.

just as a matter of intrest did Newcastle lose many fans when they rebranded from Gosforth to Newcastle, and changed from green and white hoops to a black kit, are fans bitter at losing the name Gosforth, and the green and white, or did fans accept it for the greater good of the Club?

Kingshu,

From my point of view, as a season Falcons season ticket holder – I would not go to see them if they were still Gosforth. Most of the clubs on Tyneside are - well working class sounds a bit emotive, but on a Saturday there are more Ford Transits parked outside rugby clubs than there are BMW’s – apart from two or three clubs, Gosforth (in its original form) being one of them.

What really sickened my pig was a move by Gosforth (many moons ago – long before Newcastle-Gosforth/Falcons) to formalise an agreement that the smaller clubs of Tyneside and SE Northumberland would turn into feeders clubs for Gosforth. Very high handed and arrogant, what made it worse was they really were convinced it was a ’Good Thing’ and were quite surprised when the likes of Percy Park, Ashington, Wallsend, North Shields, Seghill, Blyth and several others blew their collective stacks. Right bunch of snobs they used to be.

If anything, the cutting of 'Gosforth' roots has allowed a lot of supporters to go and watch them without feeling disloyal to their past/current clubs. In a sense the Falcons are almost a regional side - and if they ditch the 'Newcastle' from the title they might get still more - tribalism runs deep up here.

For the next moves for the Falcons, I would like to see some action done quickly, mainly changes at coaching. The squad, whilst never going to set the world alight, is not that much worse than those of the bottom half of the Jeff but are constantly failing as a collective unit.

The owner is apparently not short of a bob or two, so if he acts quickly, he may get someone on to save next season – not by keeping us up, but by setting a winning template for next season’s Championship games.

Just to add, I’ve never met Mister Tait, but others say he’s a cracking bloke which makes the whole situation a lot sadder.
[b]

Presumably, the key for Newcastle would be to cut out the overpaid journeymen, whilst leaving a strong enough core to get promoted on the first attempt.

You would argue thats what Worcester, Quins and Northampton did. That will be tricky to get players to re-sign with no sign of who will be in charge though, Tait has looked a bit out of his depth to me, wlthough arguably a lot of coaches would struggle to look good with the players at his disposal.

I think Newcastle are under-performing with their squad. Is it really much worse than Worcester's? Relegation now looks likely, but a change of coach now would give them a chance and even if it doesn't work it means they can start planning early for next season (Bristol currently look favouriates to come back up, so let's assume they will go down if they finish bottom).

It's not nice to call for a change at the top, but Tait has basically held his hand up in public. Decisive action is needed, but the new owner is clearly committed to the club. Overall I hope Newcastle turn it round quickly - they are an important club for English rugby.

Golding will move on. Bath could do a lot worse than steal him..

I see Ed Williamson is back playing having signed for Leeds

TrailApe wrote:

just as a matter of intrest did Newcastle lose many fans when they rebranded from Gosforth to Newcastle, and changed from green and white hoops to a black kit, are fans bitter at losing the name Gosforth, and the green and white, or did fans accept it for the greater good of the Club?

Kingshu,

From my point of view, as a season Falcons season ticket holder – I would not go to see them if they were still Gosforth. Most of the clubs on Tyneside are - well working class sounds a bit emotive, but on a Saturday there are more Ford Transits parked outside rugby clubs than there are BMW’s – apart from two or three clubs, Gosforth (in its original form) being one of them.

What really sickened my pig was a move by Gosforth (many moons ago – long before Newcastle-Gosforth/Falcons) to formalise an agreement that the smaller clubs of Tyneside and SE Northumberland would turn into feeders clubs for Gosforth. Very high handed and arrogant, what made it worse was they really were convinced it was a ’Good Thing’ and were quite surprised when the likes of Percy Park, Ashington, Wallsend, North Shields, Seghill, Blyth and several others blew their collective stacks. Right bunch of snobs they used to be.

If anything, the cutting of 'Gosforth' roots has allowed a lot of supporters to go and watch them without feeling disloyal to their past/current clubs. In a sense the Falcons are almost a regional side - and if they ditch the 'Newcastle' from the title they might get still more - tribalism runs deep up here.

For the next moves for the Falcons, I would like to see some action done quickly, mainly changes at coaching. The squad, whilst never going to set the world alight, is not that much worse than those of the bottom half of the Jeff but are constantly failing as a collective unit.

The owner is apparently not short of a bob or two, so if he acts quickly, he may get someone on to save next season – not by keeping us up, but by setting a winning template for next season’s Championship games.

Just to add, I’ve never met Mister Tait, but others say he’s a cracking bloke which makes the whole situation a lot sadder.
[b]

And as i understand it Newcastle used to have bigger support when they were successful. But the average performances of the past 7+ years has taken its toll.

Ah the realistic view is its always gonna struggle for big crowds when its such a passionate football city....even more so with them actually doing well...

BUt if we can get a good manager and get us playing just a good type of rugby...the crowds will return. God Knows us regulars have watched some serious tripe for a few years now!

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ah the realistic view is its always gonna struggle for big crowds when its such a passionate football city....even more so with them actually doing well...

BUt if we can get a good manager and get us playing just a good type of rugby...the crowds will return. God Knows us regulars have watched some serious tripe for a few years now!

Thing is, United are the only other major sports team in Newcastle, a city of close to a million (including Tyneside). I believe (as I always have) that there is potential to expand if the Falcons could start playing some good stuff and create a buzz. Let's not forget, it's only a couple of years ago that they were pulling in 8000+ for games, a couple of thousand off total capacity at Kingston Park and we weren't exactly setting the world alight on the pitch.

We're staying up!!!

Gopperth moves from 10 and we bag 4 tries!

Yeah young Hodgson is a 10 who can pass.

Mark Wilson...has been in scintilating form recently and was outstanding again....

Let's not forget, it's only a couple of years ago that they were pulling in 8000+ for games, a couple of thousand off total capacity at Kingston Park and we weren't exactly setting the world alight on the pitch

I think we are down to the hardcore support now. In the North Stand the faces are becoming very familiar, even if we go down that bunch would stay (and I'm sure its the same for the diehards of the South, West and East stands), so the support can only get better. I'm sure the vast majority (if they are anything like me) are only going as its become a (bad) habit, it's not as if we are - or were - playing anything worth watching.

Shotgun Euan Murray for Edinburgh!

Sorry but Euan turned out for an U20's Tyneside team on Sunday (although he was not aware of it, he thought he was just walking his dog and he thought that document he signed was just for an autograph hunter), the Northumberland RFU are now claiming him as one of our own and he is now NOT eligible to play for Scotland.

Any problems with this, I suggest you contact the mandarins of the IRB.

Out of interest, how has he been playing? Ally Hogg too?

Ah you can have Euan....we are fine with props (Shiels is a crackin player, Golding back, Hall etc) and we could use his wages to strengthen elsewhere....

Euan's doing fine, but it does seem that you have to put him in a shirt with a thistle on it to really get him breathing fire.

Of course, he's probably overawed with the international jet setting local scene in Newcastle,likely feels a bit like a wooly back when in the company of us sirphistikated Toonies.

(Like yer knaa.)

First of all we'll keep Bradley fES. Secondly would like Shiells at Edinburgh, sorry to pick over the bones Falcon.

You might want him...but you aint getting him...

Don't want to fight, but he's a real Scotland prospect and would rather have him at Edinburgh than the Rev, though God knows we need a good TH.

I'd actually like to see the Falcons picking up the Scottish link again....

Newcastle were strong when we had George Graham, Peter Walton, Doddie Weir, Gary Armstrong...the kilted Geordies...

I see Redford Pennycook has returned to Bristol now aswell....

First Eves, now him...is this the beginning of the clear out by messers Gold, Ford and Wells.

NOOOOOOOO!!!!

http://www.newcastlefalcons.co.uk/news/story/gopperth-commits-future-to-falcons

Cumbrian wrote:NOOOOOOOO!!!!

http://www.newcastlefalcons.co.uk/news/story/gopperth-commits-future-to-falcons

I read about it earlier and guessed that both you and Geordie Falcon would be ecstatic. Any other team looses it's expensive players when they go down, but Gopperth decides to do the honorable thing. Perhaps you can sign Dan Parks as backup so your other backs never see the ball again.