England cricket sides - are they mentally incapable of batting on Asian pitches?

First topic message reminder :

Seriously this is pathetic.

<rant>

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/888778-panic-put-england-heads-in-a-spin-admits-andy-flower-after-test-defeat

"It’s fair to say it was a mental thing,’"
-Andy Flower

perhaps you were right amongst your rantings!

I don't think it is all that bad, every team has a poor series now and then. every other team has a series where they play abve themselves.

Pakistan are by now used to the grounds in the UAE, they have been playing there for a while now.

England must have under estimated them.

No need for knee jerk reactions.

You're probably right overall, Biltong, but you have to remember that it is a archetypal English trait to react in such a miserable way

The only weakness I see is they don't know how to play spin in a positive manner, was it Prior who played positively in the first innings?

SA has been doing that for years, playing deep in the crease and on the back foot, no marging for error there.

We have improved significantly over the last 5 or so years, by starting to play forward to spinners.

Biltong,

Its a bit simplistic to say they dont know how to do it. Its more that they get in a comeplete wmess when they try. Stuart Broad went out with a clear head and hit away frine as did Prior in the previous test. But both when faced with a creeping panic looked like village players.
These batsmen are better than their performances so far. They have a mental block which is stoppoing them from producing the best of what they are capable of. Marsh for Asutrlaia sseems to have become permanently stuck in this state since his injuries, and Ian Bell spent a high proportion of his test career like this. The panic and pressure went through the england batsmen as left their technique and execution all over the place.

Peter, I am a simple man with little knowledge of the game, my two cents worth is at face value.

I agree with you it is mentality, we had that problem with Warne.

I think whats dissspointing with England is that they havent shown this fragility for some time, even having the belief and calmness to come back from a poor start in Australia.

*cough*

The major person i was worried about in these conditions was Jimmy

What started as a joke comment has now become my firm opinion. England have a problem as a team, not just a few individuals having flakey form.

The batting unit is failing as a whole. What took them to the top of the rankings was that they always had one or two batsmen stand up every innings. This is not happening now.

Give it time, it is their first innings.

biltongbek wrote:Give it time, it is their first innings.

4th test and 7th innings this winter

Yep PSW, 4th test 7th innings this has happened. Sadly we were spoiled for so long.

It is mental more than anything else...but until they break this pattern by playing a proper innings each new failure is making it harder for them...

Just as winning becomes a habit that helps you come back from awkward positions , consistent failure in certain conditions causes batsmen to "freeze"

Today they tried to be over-aggressive , picked the wrong balls to attack , and here they are all out in forty overs after scoring at four per over , when what was needed was to bat for a day and a half...

What will they do in the next innings?

What's happened to playing every ball on its merits? England either seem to be scoreless or scorching along at Twenty20 rate. What's the point of making a quick 170 if you can make a slow 270? Also, the sort of breezy cameo that can win a one-dayer is useless in a Test.
At least good to see Bell making some runs. But England have had it in this match.

I reckon they should play the bowlers down the order to shore up the batting. How about Strauss opening with Swann and Broad playing at number four? Surely the batsmen will then gain mental reassurance and rectitude as they see the fearless bowlers outbatting them?

You mean play some bowlers up the order?

Worth a try... but please wait until we tour England next time.

Damn Aussies getting cocky again. I feel that England need to kick their wee behinds in the Ashes again to give them some humility

Maybe just worry about what's in front of you... 2nd Test v SL, then SA before you start dreaming what you might do to us.

England still has a nice and easy series in West Indies before us don't they?

Oh yeah, that should be a walkover... if things go to plan, right my friend?
(stop sniggering~!)

Well they say winning is a habit, pretty sure losing is too.

Yes it's hard to stay focused when the pressure is on.

biltongbek wrote:

Well they say winning is a habit, pretty sure losing is too.

Main difference is that it's much easier to get out of the winning habit ....

Going from 233-4 to 264 all out pretty much says it all.

Same old problems, lack of discipline and concentration, topped off with poor shot selection, trying to dominate bowlers and/or hit them out of the park, instead of just playing solidly and sensibly.

Trott and Prior aside, I don't think any of our players can feel too pleased with themselves. Even the tail failed to wag as it usually does.

Thats 4 successive Test defeats. Wonder how much longer this losing streak is going to get before things improve...or heads roll...?

James Taylor.

Is there perhaps not another issue within the english camp?

It seems illogical that a team who has been flying so high for the previous two years and had most of their players ranked in the top ten of their individual disciplines due to the form they were in, all of a sudden perform so poorly.

biltongbek wrote:Is there perhaps not another issue within the english camp?

It seems illogical that a team who has been flying so high for the previous two years and had most of their players ranked in the top ten of their individual disciplines due to the form they were in, all of a sudden perform so poorly.

In fairness Biltong, on the run we had between 2009 and 2012 where we didn't lose a Test Series we only played Bangladesh, Australia, South Africa away so it could be due to lack of prep or we simply aren't used to the conditions.

To be fair, it's not a complete disaster. We aren't getting completely destroyed, it's just our batting that is letting us down. Our bowlers are putting us in positions, we just aren't sealing the deal. If we weren't taking 20 wickets aswell as not scoring the runs then I really will be worried!

strauss and cook doing alright today