Australia v India: 3rd Test, Perth

First topic message reminder :

Friday, January 13 - Tuesday, January 17 at the WACA
Start time: 1030 WST; 1330 AEDT; 0800 IST; 0230 GMT

Australia:
1 David Warner, 2 Ed Cowan, 3 Shaun Marsh, 4 Ricky Ponting, 5 Michael Clarke (capt), 6 Michael Hussey,
7 Brad Haddin (wk), 8 Peter Siddle, 9 Ryan Harris, 10 Mitchell Starc, 11 Ben Hilfenhaus.

India:
1 Virender Sehwag, 2 Gautam Gambhir, 3 Rahul Dravid, 4 Sachin Tendulkar, 5 VVS Laxman, 6 Virat Kohli,
7 MS Dhoni (capt & wk), 8 Zaheer Khan, 9 Ishant Sharma, 10 Vinay Kumar, 11 Umesh Yadav.

how many teams actually have opening pairs that make century opening stands on a regular basis?

The Aussie openers have today batted India out of this match in 1 session. That has to be applauded. Why the old records have to be dragged out i have no idea, the Aussies deserve full credit for todays play.

Since 1989, Australia have had opening partnerships of over 200 on 13 occasions.
Langer and Hayden had 6 opening stands of over 200 runs.

My point being breaker is that not many teams have opening partnerships that score over 100 on a regular basis. I think the Aussies are doing well and dont see the need to criticise them.

India are the only ones requiring criticism here, that's for sure!

Yeah I know Billy.

I was just responding to PSW's comment about India 'letting' them get that opening 100 partnership. It's happened many times for all the big teams against all types of bowling attacks. Australia did it against Donald & Co a few times but you're right - it's not a regular occurrence... but it has happened a fair bit over the years.

They werent let breaker, they also had to bat there way to it as well. How often do we see batsmen who are on the attack also throw their wicket away? Didnt happen today so full credit to the Aussies.

Exactly. Warner was just so aggressive and blew the 'attack' away. Still risk involved but he got away with it and ultimately dominated them.

yeah but he wasnt taking that many risks. He was just ultimately punishing the bad balls of which there were many but that still taks alot of self control and concentration. I thought that the opening stand was one of the best i have seen for a while as even Cown wasnt scoring that slowly.

No shame in getting put down at the WACA by Australia. Not many teams, great or otherwise can boast of a victory over the Aussies here. This scorecard is one example of that: http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2010-11/engine/match/428751.html

Thank god that link doesnt work for me liverbnz

I think it wa sfair to critisize Australias opening partnerships through 2010 and 2011, it was very much a cas eof one player makeing a score but the other getting out quickly time and again.

However my initialk post which kicked this off was a mixture of a cheap jibe at Austrlians ( its looking likely we will get less chances for thos e this year ) and a much stronger one at teh Indian bowling.

Thing is we have known for some time that Australia have a number of openers ( including Hughes) who are capable of flaying weak attacks when theres not much movement. These are devastating limited overs batsmen. This series has shown they can dominate attacks and make the best of opportunities like this, England still miss a guy like Trescothick who can really open up like Warner has.
But theres still a question mark if these are "proper" test openers like Cook. Globally there is a lack of those now, and its costing teams. Cricinfo ran a piece about how low opening partnerships were last year, due to a mix of teams having one or in some cases two makeshift openers and teams re-learning how to swing the new ball.
Cannot critisize them on this performance though, its refreshing to see the Aussies back in business.

liverbnz wrote:No shame in getting put down at the WACA by Australia. Not many teams, great or otherwise can boast of a victory over the Aussies here. This scorecard is one example of that: http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2010-11/engine/match/428751.html

At least England gave them a game. This is a flucking embaressment.

We had a few demons with India at the WACA before this match, liver. 2008 and all that. Some (not all) Indian fans have been reminding us of that match for the last 4 years. I'm just glad the way the day turned out today. I was quietly confident before today but it's nice to see our guys doing very well again.

That scorecard... things were looking good at 1-1 back then.

So there was a bit of sledging from Ishant to Warner it seems. Turned out to be a big mistake. Warner had a bit to say about in the press conference afterwards - namely, keep concentrating and let his bat do the talking.

Kohli was in a more difficult position. Basically defended his position in the team and suggested more help from the other (more senior) players would have helped their cause today. Brave words!

What an innings, Warner is such a talent.

Warner and Cook opening would be the perfect combination

Warner: "India need to learn how to play outside India" Ouch!

Linebreaker wrote:Warner: "India need to learn how to play outside India" Ouch!

He has just said what all of us were already thinking...

I'm watching it again now. Apparently Ishant said he wouldn't have such a high average if he played in India.

Warner replied that he'd probably be averaging 10 runs more with the flat wickets over there.

Sounds like a few conversations on the old 606.

Saw quite a lot of the Warner onslaught. India look a bit of a shambles at the moment. Has Fletcher given up on them? Almost impossible to work out how good Australia are when they're up against this sort of opposition.
From an English point of view, the last thing they need is Australian being given immense confidence by a drastically-underachieving Indian side.

Linebreaker wrote:I'm watching it again now. Apparently Ishant said he wouldn't have such a high average if he played in India.

Warner replied that he'd probably be averaging 10 runs more with the flat wickets over there.

Sounds like a few conversations on the old 606.

So whats Ishants excuse for having such a bad average on bounce friendly fast wickets?

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

liverbnz wrote:No shame in getting put down at the WACA by Australia. Not many teams, great or otherwise can boast of a victory over the Aussies here. This scorecard is one example of that: http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2010-11/engine/match/428751.html

At least England gave them a game. This is a flucking embaressment.

At the WACA they didn't. Although I'm sure we all know what happened in the rest of the Tests.

Good question.

I had forgotten his voice sounds a bit tetchy... they captured some audio of it. Cowan and Kohli also had an exchange of words.

Probably something like:
"Have you read my book yet?"
"No... and I have no intention of doing so!"

Kind of "perfect day" for Australia - awesome domination.

Bit like MCG last season but in reverse

Warner may be facing better bowling next year but he has certainly made an impressive start to his career. He will of course fail a fair few times the way he plays , but when he gets a start ...

Congrats to Australia for taking such complete command of the series only weeks after a rather humbling home loss to NZ - some new players have done well and some old ones have turned back the years, and it is good to see it.

But I have to confess I'm disappointed India has rolled over as easily as they have - even after Melbourne I thought them capable of making a battle of it , but it has all been downhill ... now seems a pity it wasn't India for two Tests and for four.

India were really bad today, but watching Warners innings at the pub after the years first real week of work was a lot of fun so I thank him for that.

I don't know if we can take much out of thus series now,but the sun is starting to rise again after a couple of years. In some ways I find riding the bumps and bruises you get from watching an emerging team a lot more fun than trying to stay in love with reigning champ.

Yeah bet you enjoyed that one, Boomeranga! Few VB's or Toohey's accompany you throughout, no doubt?

Cracking innings, and even from a Pom's point of view I have to say I enjoy Australia doing well again - it doesn't seem right for them to have a poor cricket side, and we want the Ashes being as competitive as possible (though I did of course enjoy us tonking you last year )

Amazing how quickly things can turn round in cricket. One minute you see a side battered into submission (Australia by England last winter) and then the same side - well, nearly - hammering somebody else.
Thumb through records of Tests going way back and you find this sort of thing. One of the heaviest-scoring Australian series of all time - in the Caribbean in 1954/55 - followed collapses against Tyson-inspired England only a few months before.
Gower's admittedly-jokey remark that the Windies would be quaking in their boots after England had scored masses of runs against a poor Australian side in 1985 was followed by a 5-0 "blackwash" in the Caribbean shortly after.
No doubt others can recall other big turnarounds. Some times they even happen in mid-series (Eng in A in 54/55, Eng in Eng in 81).

sirfredperry wrote: No doubt others can recall other big turnarounds.

Less than a year ago this India side were test and ODI champions, now they are chumpions.
Australias rise has mirrored their fall.

771/1 since the Ponting-Clarke partnership in Sydney.

India should be a bit embarrassed by their efforts on day 1 I think. I confess to not seeing the play so don't know if it's because Aus bowled and batted brilliantly, but the fight seems to have gone out of the tourists. At least Kohli made a fight of it it seems, so maybe he's done enough to give himself another chance, but surely the second innings is last chance saloon for Laxman now.

As for the selection of four seamers, I just don't see the logic in it for India. Ashwin may not have bowled brilliantly in the first two tests, but he did a job I feel, and his runs were an important bonus. Not sure Vinay Kumar adds anything to the attack to be honest. Less surprised by Aus selection, Lyon had a limited impact upto now, and Starc looks like a bowler who'll be expensive but get wickets.

Apart from the hour or so after lunch the Aussie bowlers were full of fight and reaped the rewards at regular intervals. A bit of a counter-attack from Kohli and Laxman but when they went... the rest soon followed.

As for the Australian batting - the first few overs were fair from India but then the runs started to pile on as they all got carted all around the WACA. The taunt from Ishant seemed to spur Warner on even more. He smashed some huge 6s off him and Kumar.

Don't want to get too carried away but it was a near perfect performance as you'd be likely to see. India are not only in trouble in this match/series - it could well be a major turning point in Indian test cricket. Their whole approach to Test cricket has to change after the drubbing in England and now this miserable performance today.

Linebreaker wrote:771/1 since the Ponting-Clarke partnership in Sydney.

Cook and Bell are jealous

fanrastic from warner, india just proving the theory they cant play away

Linebreaker wrote:771/1 since the Ponting-Clarke partnership in Sydney.

Ponting the only man out in fact, clearly shows that he's past it

if india used UDRS they could have got cowan out towards the close of play

India's misery can only be blamed on themselves. The Laxman's, Dravid's and Tendulkar's should've been fazed by before their tours of the UK and Australia.

Dravid and Laxman should've gone after the tour of South Africa. The drawn series was almost seen as a victory for the Indians. It was the perfect time to retire.

As for Tendulkar, yes he's still hitting the ball well, but he should've retired after the 2011 World Cup. He said it was his life long dream to win it, he done it. Go back to Mumbai have a few beers and take up a coaching role.

The reluctant of the senior batsmen to retire has left India in a major hole. Tendulkar, Dravid and Laxman are all 38/39. When they go(should be after this series), the likes are Rohit Sharma, Kohli, Rahane Pujara etc aren't gonna have any experience around them to feed off.

Everyone thinks they can play forever, but look at Laxman. Once upon a time a wonderful player. Age has caught up with him and almost looks embarrassing at the crease since the trips to the UK and Australia.

Dravid, whilst had a wonderful time in the UK, it seems like it was a stay of execution. He was in poor form prior to the trips to the Caribbean and UK. Australia's young and rampant quicks have exposed his age on this tour. When you're 39, facing 140-150kph isn't easy. Dravid has been bowled 4 out of 5 innings. Unheard of from a player called 'the Wall'.

In Tendulkar's case, his 100th 100 seems to had left him in a state of confusion. Should he smash it or grind it. In his on quest, he's forgetting the teams needs. No one is bigger than the team, however great you are.

India's bowling is pretty dreadful. Granted they lost Praveen Kumar, who offers great control. Plus speedster Aaron. But Ishant Sharma is rubbish. We hear he's an 'unlucky bowler', but that's rubbish. He bowls so much dross, its almost a surprise when he bowls a good delivery. Vinay Kumar, who's this joker? 125kph dobber. Its shameful for Test cricket that players like him are allowed to play this level.

India's selectors are reluctant to drop their 'star batsmen' yet the bowling is like musical chairs. Not long ago Irfan Pathan and RP Singh where touted as superstars, yet docile Indian pitches broke their heart.

India's idiotic groundsmen need to leave grass on the pitches, otherwise India might as well forgot about overseas tours.

Another abject performance from India. Now this has become routine. Even a 68 run partnership is as good as winning the world cup.
Well, India produced many batting legends and champions, 3 of those are playing in the present side. But there is a time limit for everything, and after delighting us all, it seems they've run out of charge.
It is time they are faced out. Time for Laxman to go, Dravid has some credit left from his stiller 2011, so shold have more time. Tendulkar should when he should go.
And playing 4 seamers, ridiculous to say the least!!.
Ones again, a superb collective bowling performance from Australia, and David Warner has played a splendid innings. One part of Australia's side where there has a been a few questions, that is also getting settled. When Watson returns, he can either move down in the middle order, or let Cowan move to 3 where Marsh seems to be out of touch. But Marsh can still be hopeful, the Indians are still in town!!!!.

The rate of which Warner is scoring at, Australia could be 400 ahead by TEA!!! At which time they could declare and bowl India out before stumps.

A total of 300 should be more than enough for an innings win!.
Will give them one last day, otherwise I'll be taking a leave of absence from watching India play till they take some serious steps towards addressing the test situation.
Come on England!, Pakistan is awaiting!.

MS Dhoni should read the writing on the wall and give up captaincy. Like Sourav Ganguly, he took India to new high points, but like Ganguly, he shouldn't overstay as captain.
A change of guard, and a change of personnel seems to be in order.
I wasn't thinking on these lines before this match, but the team just seems incapable of finding some fighting quality at the moment.

Demon Racer wrote:India's misery can only be blamed on themselves. The Laxman's, Dravid's and Tendulkar's should've been fazed by before their tours of the UK and Australia.

Dravid and Laxman should've gone after the tour of South Africa. The drawn series was almost seen as a victory for the Indians. It was the perfect time to retire.

As for Tendulkar, yes he's still hitting the ball well, but he should've retired after the 2011 World Cup. He said it was his life long dream to win it, he done it. Go back to Mumbai have a few beers and take up a coaching role.

The reluctant of the senior batsmen to retire has left India in a major hole. Tendulkar, Dravid and Laxman are all 38/39. When they go(should be after this series), the likes are Rohit Sharma, Kohli, Rahane Pujara etc aren't gonna have any experience around them to feed off.

Everyone thinks they can play forever, but look at Laxman. Once upon a time a wonderful player. Age has caught up with him and almost looks embarrassing at the crease since the trips to the UK and Australia.

Dravid, whilst had a wonderful time in the UK, it seems like it was a stay of execution. He was in poor form prior to the trips to the Caribbean and UK. Australia's young and rampant quicks have exposed his age on this tour. When you're 39, facing 140-150kph isn't easy. Dravid has been bowled 4 out of 5 innings. Unheard of from a player called 'the Wall'.

In Tendulkar's case, his 100th 100 seems to had left him in a state of confusion. Should he smash it or grind it. In his on quest, he's forgetting the teams needs. No one is bigger than the team, however great you are.

India's bowling is pretty dreadful. Granted they lost Praveen Kumar, who offers great control. Plus speedster Aaron. But Ishant Sharma is rubbish. We hear he's an 'unlucky bowler', but that's rubbish. He bowls so much dross, its almost a surprise when he bowls a good delivery. Vinay Kumar, who's this joker? 125kph dobber. Its shameful for Test cricket that players like him are allowed to play this level.

India's selectors are reluctant to drop their 'star batsmen' yet the bowling is like musical chairs. Not long ago Irfan Pathan and RP Singh where touted as superstars, yet docile Indian pitches broke their heart.

India's idiotic groundsmen need to leave grass on the pitches, otherwise India might as well forgot about overseas tours.

I have to say I disagree with most of this.

I still maintain that Dravid, Tendulkar and Laxman are world class players and should not retire/be dropped just because of a handful of low scores. In fact, I still believe that India continue to have strongest batting line-up around in Test cricket.

Dravid, in particular, was Test cricket's leading runscorer in 2011 with 1145 runs (including 5 hundreds) at 57.25. The worst run of his career came in 2008 (when there were calls for him to be dropped) and on that occasion he came back with 10 hundreds in the next 3 years. He has only had 3 innings in 2012 and I'm sure a big innings is just round the corner - I find nothing more frustrating than people lazily saying that 'Dravid's been bowled a few times in the series and it must be because he is 39'.

Sachin has looked at ease in all conditions over the last few years and although I think the 100th 100 is playing tricks on his mind - he sometimes plays for the 100 rather than naturally - he still had a very good year by most standards in 2011 (9 Tests, 756 runs @ 47.25). That came a year after averaging almost 80 with 7 100s. He has been the best Indian batsman in this series and I genuinely see no reason why he can't play on for another 2 or 3 years - just as the media love to talk about Dravid and being bowled they like to say that 'Sachin isn't converting his 50s and it must be because he is getting old'.

Laxman also causes me few headaches as a selector. He scored 66 in the 2nd Innings at the MCG and a big 100 against WI. He also has a great recird against Australia.

As for the bowling Zaheer is trying hard but clearly isn't at full fitness, Ishant is frustrating in that he makes a big difference to the side on his day but these seem to be few and far between and I'm not really blown away by Yadav - yes he's taken wickets but he's also been expensive and not really probed away at the batsmen as a good Test bowler does. Vinay Kumar may be slow but, like Praveen Kumar, he deserves a chance (FC average under 25) and should provide some much needed control. Having said that I think that it was a mistake for India to think that they could challenge in this match with 4 seamers - given that the batting is weakened and the bowling options reduced I'm not sure the argument is that strong, particularly considering Vinay is hardly the type of bowler who will take wickets by extracting bounce.

Dhoni needs to rethink the strategy outside of India. The tried and tested plan of 'score as many runs as possible with our great batting line-up and put scoreboard pressure on the opposition, allowing Zaheer and a spinner to come into their own late in the game' may have been successful on the sub-continent and to some extent in South Africa but in England and Australia the pitches have been prepared in such a way and the opposition bowling attacks strong enough that

IND 450 + 300
Opposition 400 + 250

has simply not been possible to achieve. I think that he is far too quick to take out attacking fieldsmen when partnerships start up - Clarke and Hussey were just allowed to score runs against Sehwag at one stage whilst the 3rd Slip quickly disappeared against Warner today.

Shelsey93 wrote:

Demon Racer wrote:India's misery can only be blamed on themselves. The Laxman's, Dravid's and Tendulkar's should've been fazed by before their tours of the UK and Australia.

Dravid and Laxman should've gone after the tour of South Africa. The drawn series was almost seen as a victory for the Indians. It was the perfect time to retire.

As for Tendulkar, yes he's still hitting the ball well, but he should've retired after the 2011 World Cup. He said it was his life long dream to win it, he done it. Go back to Mumbai have a few beers and take up a coaching role.

The reluctant of the senior batsmen to retire has left India in a major hole. Tendulkar, Dravid and Laxman are all 38/39. When they go(should be after this series), the likes are Rohit Sharma, Kohli, Rahane Pujara etc aren't gonna have any experience around them to feed off.

Everyone thinks they can play forever, but look at Laxman. Once upon a time a wonderful player. Age has caught up with him and almost looks embarrassing at the crease since the trips to the UK and Australia.

Dravid, whilst had a wonderful time in the UK, it seems like it was a stay of execution. He was in poor form prior to the trips to the Caribbean and UK. Australia's young and rampant quicks have exposed his age on this tour. When you're 39, facing 140-150kph isn't easy. Dravid has been bowled 4 out of 5 innings. Unheard of from a player called 'the Wall'.

In Tendulkar's case, his 100th 100 seems to had left him in a state of confusion. Should he smash it or grind it. In his on quest, he's forgetting the teams needs. No one is bigger than the team, however great you are.

India's bowling is pretty dreadful. Granted they lost Praveen Kumar, who offers great control. Plus speedster Aaron. But Ishant Sharma is rubbish. We hear he's an 'unlucky bowler', but that's rubbish. He bowls so much dross, its almost a surprise when he bowls a good delivery. Vinay Kumar, who's this joker? 125kph dobber. Its shameful for Test cricket that players like him are allowed to play this level.

India's selectors are reluctant to drop their 'star batsmen' yet the bowling is like musical chairs. Not long ago Irfan Pathan and RP Singh where touted as superstars, yet docile Indian pitches broke their heart.

India's idiotic groundsmen need to leave grass on the pitches, otherwise India might as well forgot about overseas tours.

I have to say I disagree with most of this.

I still maintain that Dravid, Tendulkar and Laxman are world class players and should not retire/be dropped just because of a handful of low scores. In fact, I still believe that India continue to have strongest batting line-up around in Test cricket.

Dravid, in particular, was Test cricket's leading runscorer in 2011 with 1145 runs (including 5 hundreds) at 57.25. The worst run of his career came in 2008 (when there were calls for him to be dropped) and on that occasion he came back with 10 hundreds in the next 3 years. He has only had 3 innings in 2012 and I'm sure a big innings is just round the corner - I find nothing more frustrating than people lazily saying that 'Dravid's been bowled a few times in the series and it must be because he is 39'.

Sachin has looked at ease in all conditions over the last few years and although I think the 100th 100 is playing tricks on his mind - he sometimes plays for the 100 rather than naturally - he still had a very good year by most standards in 2011 (9 Tests, 756 runs @ 47.25). That came a year after averaging almost 80 with 7 100s. He has been the best Indian batsman in this series and I genuinely see no reason why he can't play on for another 2 or 3 years - just as the media love to talk about Dravid and being bowled they like to say that 'Sachin isn't converting his 50s and it must be because he is getting old'.

Laxman also causes me few headaches as a selector. He scored 66 in the 2nd Innings at the MCG and a big 100 against WI. He also has a great recird against Australia.

As for the bowling Zaheer is trying hard but clearly isn't at full fitness, Ishant is frustrating in that he makes a big difference to the side on his day but these seem to be few and far between and I'm not really blown away by Yadav - yes he's taken wickets but he's also been expensive and not really probed away at the batsmen as a good Test bowler does. Vinay Kumar may be slow but, like Praveen Kumar, he deserves a chance (FC average under 25) and should provide some much needed control. Having said that I think that it was a mistake for India to think that they could challenge in this match with 4 seamers - given that the batting is weakened and the bowling options reduced I'm not sure the argument is that strong, particularly considering Vinay is hardly the type of bowler who will take wickets by extracting bounce.

Dhoni needs to rethink the strategy outside of India. The tried and tested plan of 'score as many runs as possible with our great batting line-up and put scoreboard pressure on the opposition, allowing Zaheer and a spinner to come into their own late in the game' may have been successful on the sub-continent and to some extent in South Africa but in England and Australia the pitches have been prepared in such a way and the opposition bowling attacks strong enough that

IND 450 + 300
Opposition 400 + 250

has simply not been possible to achieve. I think that he is far too quick to take out attacking fieldsmen when partnerships start up - Clarke and Hussey were just allowed to score runs against Sehwag at one stage whilst the 3rd Slip quickly disappeared against Warner today.

When batsmen are nearing the end, they sometimes find a few final glories ie Dravid's 2011. Are you denying that Dravid's aging reactions weren't exposed by the Australian speedsters?

Laxman was exposed in the UK and now in Australia. Scoring some cheap runs vs the West Indies can't mask this. His past record vs Australia is awesome. That was then, now he's a liability.

Tendulkar, I may have been harsh on, but why is he keeping a youngster out of the side? He's achieved so much, just retire now. Individual milestones mean jack when your team is being destroyed.

With regards to the bowling, whilst the batting is struggling, more potent bowling eases the burden on the batsmen. India need to identify an all rounder whom can bat in the top 7 and bowl 15 overs. I personally think they should pick their best 5 batsmen. Dhoni at 6. Plus Irfan Pathan and R Ashwin as all rounders. That's 8 people who can score hundreds. Then 3 of Khan, Yadav, Ishant, Ojha, Aaron. It might take time to work, but its worth ago,.

India's total overtaken without the loss of a wicket. The 3rd time it's ever happened against India.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-india-2011/content/story/549262.html

Kohli drops Warner on 126.... a real gimme at 1st slip.

200 run opening stand up.

Linebreaker wrote:Kohli drops Warner on 126.... a real gimme at 1st slip.

That was a dolly but in fairness it probably was Dhoni's.

Cowan out for 74.

Marsh (11) and Ponting (7) didn't last long... both victims to Yadav.

242/3 at that stage

3/107 in the first session. Warner 156* and Clarke 3*

256/3 at lunch. Australia lead by 95 runs.

Warner eventually holes out at long on for 180.

Australia 290/4

Good delivery from Zaheer and Clarke nicks it through to Dhoni.

301/5

First ball from Zaheer to Haddin whacks him in the chest area. No love lost between these two!