The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub

First topic message reminder :

Welcome to the Virtual Rugby Pub - a place where you can come in for a sly beverage and discuss whatever's on your mind, or just eavesdrop on the regulars if you fancy a break from all the rugby chat.

The only rule in this pub is one of mutual respect for everyone in it, oh and no defacing the pictures of Nigel Walker, Stephen Ferris, and Planet Rugby's team of the round above the bar!

Spoiler:

Last Pub: https://www.606v2.com/t21838p950-the-dew-drop-inn-virtual-rugby-pub#858890

Are you VERY bored on that boat Stag??

MrsP wrote:Whereas Munster trained Felix Jones, Rhys Ruddock, Ian Keatley from their infant days????

Lets not go this route MrsP.

Munster are a massive exporter of players to other teams. John Fogarty, Eoin Reddan, Mike Ross, Sean Cronin, Trevor Hogan, Stephen Keogh, Tony Buckley, Frank Murphy, Jerry Flannery, Keith Matthews are all examples of Munster men who have played with another Irish province in recent years.

Two or three players in compensation is a small ask to make. I would like to see Munster send Ian Nagle to Ulster or Leinster personally. I think he will rot otherwise.

But you were saying they are only Munstermen if you get them as soon as they're weaned???

Make up your mind you little wum!!!!!



I do understand. There can't be much to do on that boat but wind up Ulster fans!

Ah Stag come on now. You can hardly count Terblanche and Payne in the same list. They simply will never play at the same time. Payne will not be available for selection for a single match in the duration of Terblanches contract.

Likewise if you're counting D'Arcy, Court etc. as not being Ulstermen albeit they are Irishmen you have to count Niall Ronan, Sean Cronin, Mike Ross, Eoin Reddan etc. as being in the same boat; having come from outside the province. Sean Cronin is no more a Leinsterman than Court is an Ulsterman and they carry the same passport.

We try and recruit players from the other provinces and are rebuffed time and time again. I think we deserve credit for expanding the player pool for Ireland. What on earth would we have done in recent years without Court covering in the squad? The IRFU runs the exiles program for a reason and because it's so unusual for players to move from the other three provinces to Ulster we just happen to have been the main beneficiaries.

However, having said all that, what Stag says is not without foundation. We don't have the spine of really top quality homegrown players than Munster and Leinster have. We're slowly getting here but until recently we didn't have more than 2 or 3 really quality Irish internationals and still don't.

Whats worse is we don't even get to play those players as much as we would need to for them to provide the leadership we need in the Pro 12. I'd say our most important player by quite some distance is Johann Muller. Followed by Ferris, Best, Wallace, Pienaar and Afoa who are all key players for various reasons. Of our absolutely key men, half are NIQ. So we definitely rely on a clutch of top quality imports and the reason is we have less quality homegrown players than Leinster and Munster.

But I do think our strategy is off a net benefit to Irish Rugby. Yes, we are supplying less players to the national team- mainly because the players simply are not there. We haven't been supplying anywhere near as many players to the national team as Leinster or Munster for quite some time now. Leinster AND Munster have had an exceptionally fertile generation come through in recent years in comparison to us and still do to an extent. The number of quality homegrown players we've produced isn't that high. But its better that we have what homegrown players we have produced playing alongside these top, top players and playing a higher standard of rugby.

Ulsters representation in the squad may not have changed but the number of names in the hat as genuinely viable candidates for international honours is increasing hand in hand with our signings and I don't think it's a coincidence.

Thats an entirely different issue due to the spread of Munster influence in popular culture and the effect of Munster coaching over the last decade (Eddie O'Sullivan (Ireland), Declan Kidney (Ireland), Conor O'Shea (in England) and Anthony Foley (Wolfhounds)

The spread of Munster influence in popular culture!?!?



What??

Basically Munster rugby became synonymous with winning rugby within Ireland during the last decade. The other provinces have watched and learnt from Munster. There are plenty of interviews citing this. Rob Kearney saying Irish players needed to show Munsters passion to win a Grand Slam. Cheika saying that Leinster needed to learn from Munster in order to win the HEC.

Keatley et al will have know what is expected and what Munster rugby means. The spread of Munster rugby in popular culture is undeniable.

Yeah, but... popular culture?

Music, TV, Film? Come on...

You keep using that phrase. I do not think you know what it means!

Sure we all know that Stag.

You guys only let Leinster win it a couple of times to ket them know what they'd been missing.

Yes Notch popular culture:

Munster rugby was a popular target on Today FMs Gift Grub, the cult status Chuck Norris/Paul O'Connell that was doing the rounds, the play Alone it Stands. Lots of moments like Munster Haka became iconic pictures for RTE television.

I would certainly say popular culture. In this country at least.

I honestly can't tell if he wants a serious debate or is just spoofing. Which is a shame because I'd love an good aul jaw about why Ulster have struggled to produce the same volume of quality players as Leinster produce and Munster produced with their class of 2000.

MrsP wrote:Sure we all know that Stag.

You guys only let Leinster win it a couple of times to ket them know what they'd been missing.

No MrsP I'm not taking the pish. Leinster saw what was working and they took the best parts of it and combined them to make a new brand of winning rugby which sadly is better than we have.

Hopefully we can up our game and reclaim our place.

BTW Notch - http://corkuniversitypress.typepad.com/cork_university_press/2011/12/rugby-in-munster-a-social-and-cultural-history-.html

Oh ferry is getting in. Talk soon a chairde.

Notch . . . .I never spoof.

red_stag wrote:Yes Notch popular culture:

Munster rugby was a popular target on Today FMs Gift Grub, the cult status Chuck Norris/Paul O'Connell that was doing the rounds, the play Alone it Stands. Lots of moments like Munster Haka became iconic pictures for RTE television.

I would certainly say popular culture. In this country at least.

I'd call that sporting culture. Sports are popular sure, but its still quite far removed from you know- actual popular culture. It's true that Munster are coming out of a golden era which has been a great joy to everyone in Irish Rugby (as much as their fans have provoked the opposite reaction) but c'mon!

You've hardly had any bigger an impact on popular culture than any other successful sports team.

Stag I wouldn't be boasting about exporting the likes of Buckley, Murphy and Keogh.

You can bang on about how many Irish men in the Munster team all you like but the reality is you'd probably be 0 from 5 in the HEC if it wasn't for BJ Botha. Certainly you wouldn't have beaten Saints or Castres.

Popular culture in Limerick maybe.

Were the Irish Rovers originally from Munster?

Seriously though Stag - where is the epicentre of the province? Is it in Limerick, Cork... or Tipperary? Excuse my ignorance. Are most of the HEC games played in Limerick?

Your passion for Munster is unbelievable. That's great. Nothing like that sort of thing in Oz... well except for the NSW -Qld 'rivalry' which is about 0.1 of the NRL (rugby league) rivalry and 0.05 of the AFL rivalry. Strange isn't it?

I think it's because rugby still has a sort of amateur tag despite the S15 franchises - it's not a mass 'cultural' phenomenum in Australia. Other sports dominate the scene. Still, we'll get 80,000 to a Bledisloe Cup (107-109,000 in 1999, 2000) but you're lucky to get 15-17,000 to a Tahs game (when they're doing badly) and about 30-35,000 (when they're doing well). Below that level in the Suburban Cups (Syd-Bris only) there'd be less than 1,000 at most games... and about 10-15,000 maximum at the Grand Final.

Cue Thomond!

Stand well back now that you've lit that touch paper Linebreaker!!

Just asking...

(you mean the epicentre question?)

Yup!

Didn't Rob Kearney just say that Munster players should play with the kind of passion that they play with for Munster when playing for Ireland?

I don't think the implication was that the Irish team needed to show "Munster passion". Wishful thinking pal...

And,
Did you mean these guys?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EPsuOEH1fY

...riding along on my pushbike, Honey...

Yes Mrs P. We used to sing that one in kindy. I've still got the old record with them in their olive coloured woollen polar-necks on the cover. Lovely tune. (or is that Irish moss?)

My mum used to sing it to me.

This one too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XEDkVHrUWk&feature=related

And, I think they were mostly from Ulster. As are most good things!

It wouldn't be a Friday in the pub without a good old fashioned Irish debate.......

You watch who you are calling old fashioned young man!!!!!!

prop_lyd wrote:It wouldn't be a Friday in the pub without a good old fashioned Irish debate.......

I contest that remark!!

i don't get to have debates with Stag anymore. It's more guarded responses as I try and figure out whether or not he's spoofing. More often than not it's genuine bemusement. One of the only Irish posters you used to be able to have a decent debate about Irish rugby with and he won't do it anymore

I thought they were Ulstermen Mrs P.

They did a haunting version of "And The Band Played WaltzIng Matilda" too. Makes me quite emotional when I listen to that song. Best version is probably Liam Clancy's. The Pogues did a decent version of it too.

Linebreaker wrote:I thought they were Ulstermen Mrs P.

They did a haunting version of "And The Band Played WaltzIng Matilda" too. Makes me quite emotional when I listen to that song. Best version is probably Liam Clancy's. The Pogues did a decent version of it too.

"And the old men march slowly, all bent, stiff and sore
The forgotten heroes from a forgotten war
And the young people ask, "What are they marching for?"
And I ask myself the same question."

Beautiful song. Perfect antidote for when remembrance tips over into glorification of past horrors for the sake of future ones.

Indeed Notch.

Still happening too. That's the worst bit.

ooo team announcement imminent!

got to get ready to do my SG picks.

I think twas Rava who asked this last night(?), SG have been having some issues for a lot of people trying to log in at the moment. Imanaged it okay yesterday, just hope it works today. Tis just a matter of keep trying I think!

One change for Ulster- Ian Whitten starts at outside centre in place of Darren Cave (damaged foot ligaments).

Andi Kyriacou replaces Nigel Brady on the bench and Nevin Spence comes onto the bench.

So that's three then.

Right!

Question of the day for Welsh fans (others feel free to join in)

"What if Priestland turns out to be as bad as I have always said, where would you turn then?"

I would have to take gene's from the likes of Jiffy, Jenks and Stevo and create my own super no10, Glas.

If that fails, I suppose I would have to go with Biggar. I wish Tovey would improve his defence and be more consistent though!

Glas a du wrote:So that's three then.

Right!

Ok pedant! One change to the starting XV and two changes to the bench

What’s wrong with Biggar? Or the Morgan at Ospreys (don’t know his first name sorry)?

Well,

It's 2 really.

Matthew Morgan is not so good in defence at the moment Mickado, loads of talent though.

Biggar can often crumble in pressure situations (he's very hit and miss), but behind Priestland and Stevo, is deffo the next best Welsh OH. (even if he's an ar$e on the pitch).

rugbydreamer wrote:I would have to take gene's from the likes of Jiffy, Jenks and Stevo and create my own super no10, Glas.

If that fails, I suppose I would have to go with Biggar. I wish Tovey would improve his defence and be more consistent though!

Yeah, but it would be 20 years before he plays and what if you have a daughter?

See if Wales were ever to field a halfback combination of Phillips and Biggar, I'd love see that team get beat!

Sorry Welsh friends, but it is true.

It's true that Matthew Morgan's defence isn't the best, but I'm not sure it's as terrible as people make out.

Glas a du wrote:

rugbydreamer wrote:I would have to take gene's from the likes of Jiffy, Jenks and Stevo and create my own super no10, Glas.

If that fails, I suppose I would have to go with Biggar. I wish Tovey would improve his defence and be more consistent though!

Yeah, but it would be 20 years before he plays and what if you have a daughter?

not sure I can really explain waht I meant, but it certainly wasn't that!

Have you all read this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-16624823

Friday funnies:
On modern life https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibfx4AFlgH4&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rHFNJnDPYY&feature=player_embedded#!

luckless_pedestrian wrote:It's true that Matthew Morgan's defence isn't the best, but I'm not sure it's as terrible as people make out.

he was exposed defensively pretty badly at times against the Dragons, step him up another level to international and it could be a very bad day for him.

Notch wrote:See if Wales were ever to field a halfback combination of Phillips and Biggar, I'd love see that team get beat!

Sorry Welsh friends, but it is true.

None taken. I know exactly what you mean. I'm sure the Irish players would never admit to it, but there would be a little voice in their minds saying the exact same thing. That's the sort of mind games you want, not shooting your mouth off in a press conference.

Rhys Ruddock and Jamie Hagan get their first HC starts for Leinster tomorrow

Not going for the win all out then.

Scarlets team against Castres Olympique Saturday 21st January 2012: 15 Rhys Priestland, 14 George North, 13 Scott Williams, 12 Jon Davies, 11 Liam Williams, 10 Stephen Jones (capt), 9 Rhodri Williams, 1 Phil John, 2 Ken Owens, 3 Peter Edwards, 4 Lou Reed, 5 Dominic Day 6 Aaron Shingler, 7 Johnathan Edwards, 8 Matt Gilbert.

Replacements: 16 Emyr Phillips, 17 Iestyn Thomas, 18 Rhodri Jones, 19 Sione Timani, 20 Richie Pugh, 21 Gareth Davies, 22 Gareth Maule, 23 Viliame Iongi.

Scarlets not available for selection through injury:

Rob McCusker, back row, shoulder injury
Damian Welch, second row, thumb injury
Morgan Stoddart, back three, double leg fracture (out until March)
Dale Ford, back three, double leg fracture (out season)
Sean Lamont, wing, calf strain
Dan Newton, full-back, hamstring strain
Andy Fenby, wing, concussion
Nic Cudd, back row, knee injury
Kieran Murphy, back row, ankle sprain
Josh Turnbull, back row, shoulder sprain
Ben Morgan, no 8, knee joint bruising
Rhodri Gomer Davies, centre, knee joint injury
Matthew Rees, hooker, shoulder bruising
Rhys Jones, no 10, knee injury
Owen Williams, no 10, abdominal muscle strain
Aled Thomas, no 10, shoulder sprain
Aled Davies, scrum-half, knee injury (out season)
Tavis Knoyle, scrum-half, shoulder injury (operation, out until May)
Rhys Thomas, Prop, neck strain
Deacon Manu, Prop, dead leg



This is the weakest backrow we've fielded all season! Argh!
Chuffed Peter Edwards is starting though. Just, urgh, we really need to win this game, and pray that Munster beat Saints and Bath beat Glasgow for us to get into the Amlin (I don't ask for much ). Our injury list has seriously dented our chances!

rugbydreamer wrote:

luckless_pedestrian wrote:It's true that Matthew Morgan's defence isn't the best, but I'm not sure it's as terrible as people make out.

he was exposed defensively pretty badly at times against the Dragons, step him up another level to international and it could be a very bad day for him.

It's benefits and costs, Dreamer. We would have to balance what he brings to the game as an attacking player against the weaknesses in his game.