Other Home Nations ... How Fearsome Are Scotland, Really?

I can't shake my bias of Scotland - I've watched them since a kid and I know them inside out. Apart from the casual banter which does often tell the truth about the nation it's directed at, I don't really know what people genuinely feel about going up against Scotland.

Let's do some research.

What players in Scotland's squad do you fear, if any?
What players do you like to see in Scotland's match day 22 (because you know they're going to drop balls and be a general disaster) if any?
Do you fear them as a squad in general?
Would you rather play Scotland at Murrayfield or Italy at Rome?
How do you feel if Scotland actually manage to score a try against your team?
How do you feel if you lose to Scotland?
How do you feel if you beat them?
When do you think Scotland will finally make it into the top 3 of the 6N for 2 years in a row, if ever? What do you think they need to do to get there?

And any other questions you want to make up and then answer. I'm interested. I hang out with lots of Scottish fans come 6N time or very casual England fans who don't really know a jot, so I don't get any info except the pub banter. (Btw - you Welsh need to win more gracefully when in pubs, seriously!)

Scotland has the ability to bog teams down at home. Even SA and Australia goes to Murray field with trepadation. somethig about the weather, the crowd, the foreign conditions etc makes it a difficult place to win.

At home Scotland plays above themselves and teams tend to struggle to give their best.

As a Scotsman I would say, judging by the last 10 years - not very. Looking towards the next 5 years - hopefully becoming more fearsome!

Kick,

They desperately need some top quality at 10, since (most probably) Townsedn retired they have struggled there.

They have some class forwards in Murray, Hines, Gray, and Killer Bs etc with the likes of the Lamont boys, Evans and Ansbro behind capable of scoring tires but its 10 where they struggle or have done.

Is jackson the answer, would Shingler have made a difference?

If you on about the Welsh in pubs in Cardiff, well thats the problem. The MS is one of the best located stadiums going BUT that in itsel brings out the idiots who just go to Cardiff for a day on the lash and don't have one clue about rugby.

I've stood in the pubs myself, when not lucky enough to have tickets and had arguments with idiots who are just jumping on the annti whoever we are playing bandwagon.

If you go again then I would suggest you try and sus out the genuine 'rugby' pubs in town which are full with rugby boys who yes want Wales to win but will always shake your hand, say well done and have a bl88dy good laugh and drink about it afterwards.

Watching Glasgow against Leinster, they seemed to play like a different country alltogether - I think England have a real struggle on their hands - especially awa from 'Twickers'

As someone who regularly gets to see Glasgow home games thanks to a lucky job I think Scotland will be a dangerous opponent at home... England and France even may have to be careful in Murrayfield, but only if Robbo allows the players to play the game they know and not stifle their attacking threat... Glasgow play an amazing defense and Edinburgh an amazing attack, if Scotland can combine these two then I'd be worried if I was any supporter!

Also he needs to get it out of his head that Barcs/Vernon will be able to play 8... Denton is the form 8 with Ryan Wilson not far behind. Let Denton play with Barcs/Rennie at 7 and Kelly B at 6 and watch most other back rows get punished!

Also anyone notice how much more up for it Big Al seems now he thinks his place is under contention? Leading by example against Leinster!

I've seen Wales beat Scotland regularly, even when Scotland have had to work harder to actually lose rather than win and Wales have not really had any right to be in the game, let alone win. I've also seen Wales put some excellant performances in against scotland and run in some nice tries.

Honestly, I dont fear them, they have a great pack, and some good strike runners, but as someones mentioned above, the problems have been at 10, and 12, for a while now. They aren't a bad team at all, they're just limmited in their attacking options for me. Saying that, watching Edinbrough play this season some of their attacking play has been excellant! Hopefully some of their backline can bring that with them into Scotland colours. Fingers crossed Robinson puts his faith in some creativity at 10 or 12, i think thats the difference between this scotland side being a consistently threatening team and a strong limited side internationally.

At international level....
Scotland players I fear (no order):
Sean Lamont
Richie Gray
Kelly Brown
Beattie (whats up with beattie atm?)
Alan Jacobson

Scotland players I dont fear (no order):
Dan Parks
Morrison
De Luca
Vernon
Hines

In regards to some of the other points, I'd expect Wales to beat Scotland, I'd expect a tough game in general but a score or 2 the difference. Would rather play Scotland at Murrayfield than Italy in Rome (Wales have struggled nearly every visit to Italy), and finally I feel exactly the same way as if any other team scores a try against us when they do

Cool, thanks for the info bro genuinely helping paint a picture.

Anyone else?

Comfort...

How can you say Edinburgh's attack has been excellent yet you have no fear of De Luca?

You'll notice that other Scottish posters are saying De Luca is on of the most in form backs at the moment both in attack and defence.

Hines doesn't have to be feared as he retired last year but the rest you're spot on.

I'd also fear Ford and Laidlaw at the moment. It's just a shame Visser doesn't qualify until June because he really has the potential to be one of the best wingers in the world.

To build for the ambitious target of winning the WC in 2015, Parks & Morrison have to go for good.

Tattie, I based what i fear/dont fear on international tests and what I've seen from the players at that level rather than on club-form.

Some players are great club players but dont seem to take the next step up as easily as others, I personally feel De Luca is one of them, but he has time to grow at that level.

I think Laidlaw & Visser will certainly be on my list this time next year.

Hope that sort of explains my thinking

Aye spot on.

I think that De Luca has failed Internationally due to the muppet inside him not having any creative vision to set him on his way. In space, De Luca has a great turn of speed and his passing game is excellent too. I would say that Visser's success has a lot to do with NDL.

Against England, I would like to see S Lamont battering into the 10-12 channel and then quick distribution out wide to De Luca. It would probably take a few English defenders to stop Lamont meaning gaps out wide.

However, this is purely based on Lamont running at full speed into contact.

Kick

From an England perspective, I always worry about Murrayfield games for a few reasons:
1 - the pride and passion of the Scots in attempting to beat us. Few would argue against the fact that your best performance of most 6Ns is against the southern jessies.
2 - while recent years have seen a Scotland side with limitations in attack (as already discussed, in part through inadequacies at 10-12, plus an inability to provide support for the more talented ball carriers), you've always been a strong defensive team and one of the most successful bad weather teams around.
3 - the pack in particular often seems to play as a unit better than the sum of its parts.
4 - Patterson's reliability as a goal kicker (fortunately for us, now no longer an issue).

For your specific questions:
What players in Scotland's squad do you fear, if any?
Lamont, Gray, Ford, Brown

What players do you like to see in Scotland's match day 22 (because you know they're going to drop balls and be a general disaster) if any?
Nick Di Luca , Desperate Dan Parks

Do you fear them as a squad in general?
See above

Would you rather play Scotland at Murrayfield or Italy at Rome?
Italy in Rome every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

How do you feel if Scotland actually manage to score a try against your team?
Shocked, especially if it came from a flowing backs move

How do you feel if you lose to Scotland?
Gutted

How do you feel if you beat them?
Releaved

When do you think Scotland will finally make it into the top 3 of the 6N for 2 years in a row, if ever? What do you think they need to do to get there?
It will happen again, and it does sound like you have some promising players coming through in the areas that have been a weakness over the last several seasons. Obviously, one issue the Scots have a problem with at present is strength in depth - only two pro regions means not much room for development of young talent.

As mentioned I thought Ansbro looked good last season and De Luca is in good form

Is Jackson the answer at 10 though to get them going, also has Visser played for the Netherlands or did he turn them down?

John Barclay and Euan Murray are probably the two I'm not looking forward to us facing. Barclay because England have been so weak at the breakdown for the last few years that he can make a mess of it. Murray specifically this time, just because we don't have a particularly fearsome scrummaging loosehead to select against him without Sheridan. Corbisiero or Marler may do a competent job, but I'd be very surprised if either get on top.

Personally I fear the Scottish packs a lot more than the backs.

Glasgow and Edinburgh crucially have not had to face the strongest English sides in the HC. This might have led to a bit of overconfidence on the chances in the 6 nations. Cue talk of Scotland being dark horses.

Scotland are a particular tough team to break down at home because their pack is decent in general. If it rains it magnifies the problem for the opposition as Scotland feed off the rain to spur them on. Rain suits the Scottish style.

Scottish players I fear - Richie Gray and Kelly Brown.


Would rather play Italy in Rome as have never lost to them before.

Would not be too pleased too concede a try vs Scotland because Scotland surely have one of the least creative backlines in the 6 nations.

Always nice to beat Scotland at Murrayfield. Would be awful if we lost to Scotland at Twickenham though as it's so rare.

bedfordwelsh wrote:As mentioned I thought Ansbro looked good last season and De Luca is in good form

Is Jackson the answer at 10 though to get them going, also has Visser played for the Netherlands or did he turn them down?

Jackson's injured so we're hoping we'll see either Greig Laidlaw or Weir at 10. Ansbro is also injured at the mo at London Irish - we don't have that many specialist centres or full backs to choose from at the mo.

Visser turned NL down and has stated his desire to play for Scotland several times in the past. He qualifies in June this year through residency.

Visser will be huge plus for them as he does look class whenever seen him play.

Didn't realise the pair were out injured which does limit options even further. I guess when at Murrayfield all visiting teams will be hoping for a dry day as opposed to wet and raining.

Some pretty balanced and sensible comments on here.

The general gist is right, fear the pack but not the backs. If Wood or Robshaw can put some pressure on our half backs, and Barritt is charged with negating Sean Lamont, then I struggle to see where a Scottish try could come from, other than perhaps a catch and drive (although that would require a ref to actually allow a proper rolling maul, a rarety these days).

In terms of the players picked out, the only one I'd say to watch out for if picked is David Denton. A wrecking ball of a number 8 with a bit of pace to add. A rough diamond still, and not the silkiest of handlers, but it would be great to see him and Morgan square off against eachother. Two ball carrying 8's who will try to create something.

England v Scotlland games especialy at Murryfield are never easy for England, If it is raining of it as been raining Scotland do often tend to be a dangerous team.

I would think that England will win, but i do expect Scotland to give England a massive headace,

Scotland now that Patterson as retired might suffer when it come to taking penalty kicks, But that Duncan Weir looks quite handywith the boot.

It will be interesting to see how the packs get on, especialy the font five.

Realy looking forward to this game.

What players in Scotland's squad do you fear, if any?

Not any in particular, but I do respect a scottish team ethic, they were always famous for the finest rucking game in the world in years gone by. Occasionally there are glimpses of that.

What players do you like to see in Scotland's match day 22 (because you know they're going to drop balls and be a general disaster) if any?

DAN PARKS...! need you ask. What amazes me is that only Leinster seem to capitalise consistently on his refusal to take part in any defending work.

Do you fear them as a squad in general?

Yes...! Scotland are a good team, playing good rugby, they are improving on their recent history.

As a Rugby culture, obviously. Scotland are a fantastically passionate nation and have been the soul of much of my lifetimes enjoyment in the 5/6 Nations

Would you rather play Scotland at Murrayfield or Italy at Rome?

Italy in Rome, but only just...!

How do you feel if Scotland actually manage to score a try against your team?

Same as if any other team score against Wales... Not good

How do you feel if you lose to Scotland?

Same as if we lose to any other. To be fair we have invariably been the better team against Scotland over my life time and we expected to win. If we didnt, I felt very bad. More so than a loss to the All Blacks.

How do you feel if you beat them?

Releaved

When do you think Scotland will finally make it into the top 3 of the 6N for 2
years in a row, if ever? What do you think they need to do to get there?

Soon, but I have been saying that for a while. Lets say as soon as they jack Dan Parks. Since he has been at the Blues I have realised why Scotland have been such a poor team with him at the Helm.

i started getting interested in international rugby in the 90s when scotland beat wales regularly, everyone did apart from in the odd year when wales won (95was it)

so i still think of scotland as a team more than capable of beating wales.

the match against wales where scotland were down to 13 in the last 2 minuets should have been a scotland win. me and my mates were in bits at the end. our english friend was loving it.

i would much rather face italy in rome than scotland in murrayfield (sp?) and i am quite happy scotland are coming to cardiff this year.

the 6nations needs a strong scotland. it must have been a very difficult few years for fans of scotland.

one player i always admired was chris patterson. possibly the best goal kicker ever