Steven Jones the Welsh 10.

by majesticimperialman Thu 19 Jan 2012, 4:49 pm

First topic message reminder :

Has he, Steven Jones that is, joined his mate Shane Willliams and retired from international rugby?(By announcing his retirement from international rugby)

Or is the reason that he is not in the Welsh squad for the 6ns Warren Gatlands idea not to select him?

He may not have the speed he once had but his goal kicking is far more reliable than Priestlands, and Dan Biggar.

Do you think that not selecting him for the Welsh team is a good idea or a bad idea?

by flyhalffactory Thu 26 Jan 2012, 12:26 am

maestegmafia wrote:FHF

Just wondering but are you his agent?

Contract is up this year or next?

HAHAHAHA
Love it Maes

Its like us saying Parks has never won us any games in the past just because we want a scintilating mercurial 10.............. we know he cant tackle, rarely passes when he can kick............ but he won us games and was the best option up to this year.

Just saying it as most people see Jones (outside of the Welsh away with the fairies view of a Barry John flyhalf) its just not going to happen mate .............. "Those Were The Days My Friend"

by maestegmafia Thu 26 Jan 2012, 1:28 am

As I said before I am not going to argue with you. I do completely and wholeheartedly disagree with you.

by Comfort Thu 26 Jan 2012, 10:47 am

apologies, SJ is a very good tackler for a 10, defence is one of his strong points.

FHF, dont think Im trying to run SJ down, I think he was a very, very good player, but I dont necessarily think he will lead Wales to what Im hoping for them from this 6nations on. When I said "dont think thats ever been the question" it was in response to people comparing him to Dan Carter, I think its pretty obvious Dan Carter is the more talented player, maybe not in every aspect, but overall.

SJ is in the same boat as Shane is, and Martyn Williams was, glittering career, but not the best option for Wales any more. Thats no disrespect.

He may end up being called up to the squad anyway, but its common knowledge Priestland currently holds the shirt, he's done nothing to lose it and no-ones done anything to deserve to take it off him. Biggar and Tovey are inconsistent, Morgan too young and under-developed physically, Stevo is now the old-timer who could do a job in the short-term and Shinglers scottish Wink

by bedfordwelsh Thu 26 Jan 2012, 10:51 am

For me, even as a stop gap then if Priestland is out Jones has to be called up.

A few of the older people like me will remember when we had a hooker crisis (when haven't we) many years back and out of the blue Jonathon Humphreys was called up to squad from Bath and given the captaincy.

Most at the time were shocked, horrified etc but he done the job we needed him to do, we all knew it was a stop gap and so did he but he was just glad to help his country out.

jones is in similar boat if you ask me, he knows his days at the top International level are over or pretty much that way but if Gatland gives him call he will do a job for us.

by Comfort Thu 26 Jan 2012, 11:15 am

bedford, spot on with how i see it at the moment for SJ too, not intended with any lack of respect, hes just simply not 1st choice any more.

by maestegmafia Thu 26 Jan 2012, 11:18 am

I wouldn't be upset to see Steve Jones called up as cover. Though Hook has been playing quite well for USAP, so he is a decent alternative without squad upheaval.

Good job we have some options.

by bedfordwelsh Thu 26 Jan 2012, 12:05 pm

Maes,

has he though, reports are conflicting as to how he has been doing out there.

by gowales Thu 26 Jan 2012, 12:23 pm

The people who don't think hes playing well watched the game against the Dragons and base his performances on the Perpignan's Top 14 and Amlin Cup positions which is ridiculous. I have the Top 14 on my TV so i've watched all the games he's played in and i have to say he's played well in all of them bar the Dragons game. Him, Mermoz and Mas are the only players that seem to be trying.

What most people don't realise is that Perpignan has a largely average squad except for Hook, Mermoz, Porical and Mas.
Even French rugby fans are surprised at how well they have done in the past with the squads they've had.

by bedfordwelsh Thu 26 Jan 2012, 12:27 pm

go,

Other than the Dragons game I haven't seen him play at all this year other than a few highlights which is why I said repoerts are conflicting.

He's in the squad so is the automatic choice if Priestland if out but then who plays back up.

I hope to god Gatland is not thinking of going into the Irlenad game with Hook and Henson as our options for 10 which is why I would rather see Jones called up if the need arises.

by gowales Thu 26 Jan 2012, 12:29 pm

Yea i agree i'd like Jones or Biggar brought in for cover. It wouldn't really be fair on Henson to go straight into the 10 shirt when he hasn't played there for 4 years.

by maestegmafia Thu 26 Jan 2012, 12:53 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:Maes,

has he though, reports are conflicting as to how he has been doing out there.

I watch the Welsh lads in the Top 14 on ESPN when I get the chance. Have seen more of USAP and Clermont than of Bayonne, to be honest I am more concerned about Phillips who looks more like he did in the six nations last year than in the RWC.

Hook is playing well, more controlled but still has a keen eye for a break. Goal kicking is good at the moment too. Has played solely as a flyhalf.

by bedfordwelsh Thu 26 Jan 2012, 12:57 pm

Well maybe not all doom and gloom if Priestland doesn't make it then.

by Smirnoffpriest Thu 26 Jan 2012, 1:13 pm

I have to say I'd still be very worried about going into the Ireland game with Hook at 10 am still not confident he's rounded out his game sufficently for a big international game. I'd def bring Stephen Jones back in, and thought he should have been in the training squad to offer a dependable back up for Priestland if the need arose - and now that Priestland has been injured we're in a position where we only have Henson - hasn't played 10 for ages and still looks rusty as centre/FB or Hook - who hasn't really convinced at 10 for Wales and is playing in a poor Top14 side, and his last few Wales games have been awful. They are our only 10 choices in the original training squad.

Stephen Jones is the best option to call up, but if you want to go for youth then call up Biggar and show some faith in him - but there needs to be more than one out and out 10 (Priestland) in the squad

by Dontheman Thu 26 Jan 2012, 3:16 pm

Time gets us all in teh end and perservering with sombody who should have been pensioned off two years ago curtails the development of players who can make a mark in the next decade. If it coests us a win in Dublin, big deal it may get us a win in a world cup semi in four years time. What if we need a drop to win in Dublin? Is he going to run away and hide again? [/quote]
Umm Stephen Donald anybody? A win in Dublin is paramount. We need to build on RWC 2011 as we roll towards 2015. I'd play my granny. at 10 if it meant a win. It's all very well talking about player development but what about team development Play what's in front of you not just 4 years in front

by gowales Thu 26 Jan 2012, 3:41 pm

We also have to take into account that the 2015 world cup seedings will be drawn at the end of this year! So we have to at least try and get into that top 4. Most people don't seem to realise this.

by maestegmafia Thu 26 Jan 2012, 3:45 pm

Good point GW

by flyhalffactory Thu 26 Jan 2012, 7:48 pm

maestegmafia wrote:I wouldn't be upset to see Steve Jones called up as cover. Though Hook has been playing quite well for USAP, so he is a decent alternative without squad upheaval.

Good job we have some options.

All reports from France are that he played one good debut game and one other, the rest he has been disappointing, hence he has either "rested" or moved to centre.

Comfort mate
I agree with you Welsh posters Jones shouldnt be looked long term................. however what is the objective of the Welsh team 1. win game after game or 2. develope for the next World Cup. If Mr G goes with the former then pick the form players, if the latter then go for Biggar, Tovey, Steffan Jones, Matt Morgan etc

Personally I reckon Mr G will resort to his common denominator ............. and select Hook or even Henson even tho both are not playing consistently well even at club level, so this to me is as backward a step as selecting "wellies"

Gatland be true to your word "Select on FORM"

Whoever that is

by glamorganalun Thu 26 Jan 2012, 9:56 pm

FHF:

You have a point regarding whoever is on form 10 in Wales, all the flyhalves are playing badly even Preistland has not looked great, maybe we should look at Shingler he could not do worse. As for Hook, I have not seen him play except in the Dragons game, I did not think he was bad he was one of the few trying, the team looked rubbish both home and away against the Dragons, why apart from the money he and Charteris will end up playing for an Amlin standard team is beyond me?

The little I see of McCloud playing for Sale seems pretty steady, again Wales management don't seem to want to look further that their noses.

It would not be Wales without debates about the 10 position, we have been poor for some time prior to the RWC early rounds.

by maestegmafia Thu 26 Jan 2012, 10:03 pm

FHF

Nice work on the link to Gloucester RFC I am sure you and your management team are very happy with the Press Response you are getting back from that, should up the payday when he signs...

As you can see, most people in Wales would be happy to see him get the retirement package he deserves.

by flyhalffactory Fri 27 Jan 2012, 3:21 am

gowales wrote:The people who don't think hes playing well watched the game against the Dragons and base his performances on the Perpignan's Top 14 and Amlin Cup positions which is ridiculous. I have the Top 14 on my TV so i've watched all the games he's played in and i have to say he's played well in all of them bar the Dragons game. Him, Mermoz and Mas are the only players that seem to be trying.

What most people don't realise is that Perpignan has a largely average squad except for Hook, Mermoz, Porical and Mas.
Even French rugby fans are surprised at how well they have done in the past with the squads they've had.

If you have watched the games as you have said.............. then you would have seen him pushed from the 10 slot to the centre on more than 4 games now, its not deliberate but they have had no choice. Perpignan have heavily invested in many quality players Hook was one of SEVEN new players this season alone. He is not controlling the game as they have expected and as far as accuracy! well rather than rain on your parade get the stats from ESPN not good at all...........but they have to persevere as its a massive investment. I agree Hook will always give 100% its in his nature as an honest player, but there are players around him with heads down at the moment, shades of Osprey fowards before Biggar was drafted in.

I have no doubt he will be the Welsh 10 come the Ireland game tho and they will be firm favs to win that. From a personal basis I hope Hook (rather than Biggar or Jones) is playing flyhalf when we visit Cardiff on the 12th Feb, it'll be a tough call for us and Wales will be form favs to win at home

Interesting tho

by flyhalffactory Fri 27 Jan 2012, 3:35 am

maestegmafia wrote:FHF

Nice work on the link to Gloucester RFC I am sure you and your management team are very happy with the Press Response you are getting back from that, should up the payday when he signs...

As you can see, most people in Wales would be happy to see him get the retirement package he deserves.

Maes old pal ...................... I am confused with the above (did I link in my sleep!!)

Apart from that, hope you are well compardre

Back to some crazy late hours of work grrrrrrrrr

by maestegmafia Fri 27 Jan 2012, 8:17 am

flyhalffactory wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:FHF

Nice work on the link to Gloucester RFC I am sure you and your management team are very happy with the Press Response you are getting back from that, should up the payday when he signs...

As you can see, most people in Wales would be happy to see him get the retirement package he deserves.

Mean old pal ...................... I am confused with the above (did I link in my sleep!!)

Apart from that, hope you are well compardre

Back to some crazy late hours of work grrrrrrrrr

I came to the conclusion that you are Stephen Jones agent. Understandably busy for you I guess...!

Ha ha ha

by Smirnoffpriest Fri 27 Jan 2012, 10:03 am

Maesteg - I wish you wouldn't speak for the whole of Wales - not everyone thinks the same as you - and some (like me) wonder why you say he's useless.

I think, currently S Jones is our best option after Rhys P as Hook has a lot to prove to show he's improved his skill set which was shown up at the WC and has meant he hasn't been able to hold down a 10 shirt in any team - Biggar is an option, but seems to have lost a bit of form, Tovey is off form and both are inexperienced and Henson is def not an option yet at 10 as he hasn't played there in how many years, 4 I think.

We def need to bring Tovey and Biggar along and give them time, but the time to do that is either the Italy game or the Summer tour

by Adam D Fri 27 Jan 2012, 10:05 am

https://www.606v2.com/t22706-update-to-welsh-squad-s-jones-in#899693

S Jones has just been called up

by andy powells minder Fri 27 Jan 2012, 10:06 am

pheeeeeeeewwwwwwwww!!!!! Very Happy

by Smirnoffpriest Fri 27 Jan 2012, 10:10 am

Cheers for that Adam D - thank god for that. Though I suppose it's still only the training squad, at least we know they are looking at him

by bedfordwelsh Fri 27 Jan 2012, 2:03 pm

I think its the logical option, Hook will start if Priestland not fit but happy with Jones on the bench.

by flyhalffactory Fri 27 Jan 2012, 2:52 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:FHF

Nice work on the link to Gloucester RFC I am sure you and your management team are very happy with the Press Response you are getting back from that, should up the payday when he signs...

As you can see, most people in Wales would be happy to see him get the retirement package he deserves.

Mean old pal ...................... I am confused with the above (did I link in my sleep!!)

Apart from that, hope you are well compardre

Back to some crazy late hours of work grrrrrrrrr

Ahhhh I see Maes ..................... do you think I can get a debenture or two as a down payment?

Altho I have to say reading most of the post on here they seem to agree with my stance i.e. Wellies is the form 10, and albeit really is too old you have no other option.

Please Mr Gatland go by your usual mindset and pick Hook or Henson against us tho, and not Jones, Biggar or the Priest

Looking forward to the 6Ns now Maes

I came to the conclusion that you are Stephen Jones agent. Understandably busy for you I guess...!

Ha ha ha

by maestegmafia Fri 27 Jan 2012, 4:07 pm

FHF

Out of interest I was just wondering seeing that you like a certain type of pivot man at ten, do you rate Dan Parks as well as Biggar, Jones etc...?

by TycroesOsprey Fri 27 Jan 2012, 4:12 pm

I would rather have seen Tovey called up. However now it looks like he is going to move to the Blues we will have four good young outside halfs at the regions (assuming Steffan Jones makes the step up at the dragons). So competition for the ten spot is going to get very intense over the next four years.

by maestegmafia Fri 27 Jan 2012, 4:37 pm

TO

Hopefully you are right, the more players in contention the more they push each other to do well.

by Smirnoffpriest Fri 27 Jan 2012, 4:58 pm

maestegmafia wrote:FHF

Out of interest I was just wondering seeing that you like a certain type of pivot man at ten, do you rate Dan Parks as well as Biggar, Jones etc...?

That's a weird question to ask Maes as Stephen Jones is nothing like Dan Parks at all as player - It's a bit like asking if you like George North as a winger then you must like Tom James

by maestegmafia Fri 27 Jan 2012, 5:01 pm

Smirnoffpriest wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:FHF

Out of interest I was just wondering seeing that you like a certain type of pivot man at ten, do you rate Dan Parks as well as Biggar, Jones etc...?

That's a weird question to ask Maes as Stephen Jones is nothing like Dan Parks at all as player - It's a bit like asking if you like George North as a winger then you must like Tom James

Ha ha ha...! Yes I see your point, but FHF admires the similarities between Parks and Jones and not the differences. Bar defence where I doubt there is any similarities, Jones is a confidence for any fan in defence, Parks is totally absent.

by Smirnoffpriest Fri 27 Jan 2012, 5:13 pm

I'd say Jones is a lot different player to Parks - Jones brings the centres/backs into the game with good flat distribution which if it isn't on he takes the contact and usually retains possession.
Parks looks to kick 1st and then if that's not on hurriedly passes to the 2nd reciever usually putting them into trouble.
Both kick decently tactically though I feel Parks kicks further but Jones more consistently

by flyhalffactory Fri 27 Jan 2012, 7:06 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
Smirnoffpriest wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:FHF

Out of interest I was just wondering seeing that you like a certain type of pivot man at ten, do you rate Dan Parks as well as Biggar, Jones etc...?

That's a weird question to ask Maes as Stephen Jones is nothing like Dan Parks at all as player - It's a bit like asking if you like George North as a winger then you must like Tom James
Ha ha ha...! Yes I see your point, but FHF admires the similarities between Parks and Jones and not the differences. Bar defence where I doubt there is any similarities, Jones is a confidence for any fan in defence, Parks is totally absent.

AHHHH come on now Maes don't put word into my mouth.
My Fav Welsh players are Phil Bennett and James Hook always said that.............. I love a running 10 (Cooper, Hook), but I much rather a running 10 that is AWARE (i.e. Priestland, Robinson, Carter, Jones)

However on saying that I am against posters who run one player down to promote another, there are facts and there are opinions............. some of the things posters have said about Jones and Hook are completely false, however opinions are different and you obviously enjoy a headlining running player the likes of Quade Cooper and James Hook.................... I would rather an aware player who creates opportunities for himself and his team mates the Carters and Priestlands of this rugby world

As far as direct comparisons
Simple....... Jones is/was a 100 plus cap Welsh International, Lions test player, BaaBaas player, Welsh Capt, Regional Capt, French Player of the year. He is also the 10 that gave you double victories against a SH side (Ozz). Dan is a an Australian who plays for us, he is a structured 10 who has a good kicking average, he is also the Rabbo 12 record points scorer. You have to respect both players for what they have given the game.

The difference between Wellies and Desparate is quite simple ......they both are AWARE 10s who can control and change a direction if needed of a game, however Jones

Shocked

Can tackle and tackle bl00dy good, in fact my opinion is he is your best "backs" defender
Shocked

He can run a game ...................and dont tell me he cant because he has been the 10 in the main for the 4 seasons that has seen the Scarlets become probably the best offensive team in the magners, and just look at the Scarlets last two ML matches against Glasgow and Cardiff, and against Australia, I have never seen Hook do that over 80 mins at all.
Shocked

He links his forwards and his backs seamlessly

Unfortunately our Dan cant do any of the above

Thats my stand on what I want crave desire in a flyhalf hahahahaha ................. catch my drift

by glamorganalun Fri 27 Jan 2012, 8:57 pm

Why won't Gatland give another 10 that has the potential for the next WRC a chance rather than a player that has been past it for 3 years. I thought Gatland would have learnt from the RWC, the two experienced 10's were rubbish but the least experienced player was the star, now we are back where we started prior to the RWC with our 10's! I have not seen anything of Hook apart from the Dragons game and Jones kept dropping or losing the ball against Northampton when he came on and cost the Scarlets any chance of a come back.

by bedfordwelsh Fri 27 Jan 2012, 9:38 pm

TycroesOsprey wrote:I would rather have seen Tovey called up. However now it looks like he is going to move to the Blues we will have four good young outside halfs at the regions (assuming Steffan Jones makes the step up at the dragons). So competition for the ten spot is going to get very intense over the next four years.

Yeah just pity they had to poach theirs from another Region rather than invest on one in their own.

by Smirnoffpriest Sat 28 Jan 2012, 10:36 am

I'm sorry GlamAl but have to completely disagree with you - Priestland has been in poor form for us this season in the few games he's played (probably becoz of the few games he's been available). In the Northampton game we looked a lot better when Jones came on, we started to play in the right areas, distribution was better and we started creating more chances - but all you can pick up on is 1 knock on! That says something...

by flyhalffactory Sat 28 Jan 2012, 8:20 pm

GlamAL

I kinda get the impression the game came alive for the Scarlets when SJ came on not the other way round....... many opportunities were created with Jones in the pivotable role at 10, defensive line was tighter as well.

Now what knock ons??.............. no one I talked to can remember any KOs by Jones apart from the one glaring example

Were you watching another game? bah

........... come on Alun lad

by Casartelli Sat 28 Jan 2012, 9:33 pm

It's a sad indictment of the strength in depth in Welsh rugby that Stephen Jones is still in the frame for test selection, 7 years past his best.

The only crumb of comfort is that this will be the last season of this nonsense.

The replacement hips cannot possibly break into a jog for 2013? And the maximum kick distance of 20m will be down to single figures by then...

by Smirnoffpriest Sat 28 Jan 2012, 9:48 pm

Go away mr farenheit

by flyhalffactory Sun 29 Jan 2012, 10:28 am

naughty boy Mr F..................... stir stir

by maestegmafia Sun 29 Jan 2012, 10:31 am

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Go away mr farenheit

Another multiple user appeared?

by flyhalffactory Sun 29 Jan 2012, 10:58 am

Maes Mr Farenheit (or Mr Far Far Away as he is so lovingly called) is ok ....... he's just loves Mr Hook Wink

But he is ok with medication........... hahaha

by maestegmafia Sun 29 Jan 2012, 11:38 am

flyhalffactory wrote:Maes Mr Farenheit (or Mr Far Far Away as he is so lovingly called) is ok ....... he's just loves Mr Hook

But he is ok with medication........... hahaha

I see. Do you expect Gatland to select Jones ahead of Hook and Priestland. I know I certainly don't. Jones will be a bench player at best he is too slow to play for Wales if we are playing the higher tempo game we have since last August.

by Casartelli Sun 29 Jan 2012, 11:42 am

Thanks FHF - I'm feeling the love this morning big man.

Had to resort to a new user name as 'MrFahrenheit' stopped working on the new 606v2.

To be honest, I originally thought it was a conspiracy masterminded by you - so that I would be prevented from adding some balance to the 'Hook has no game management' debate!

by Morgannwg Sun 29 Jan 2012, 11:47 am

Thank god they called up Jonesy is all I have to say. Here is my backline for our trip to Dubh Linn: Phillips, Jones, North(opposite Bowe), Roberts, Davies, Halfpenny, Byrne. Subs: Williams, Hook, Cuthbert.

by maestegmafia Sun 29 Jan 2012, 12:18 pm

You guys who are loyal fans of Stephen Jones... I was wondering do you not think he is now like a Welsh Wilkinson? Do we really want to put ourselves in the same negative predicament that England did where we wont let someone take the position and make it their own because you have an annually more decrepit Steve Jones just incase the wheels come off the cart...?

by Morgannwg Sun 29 Jan 2012, 12:21 pm

ACtually maes no. Our best fly-half is injured, Jones is the next best. Smile

by maestegmafia Sun 29 Jan 2012, 12:29 pm

There is a very good case for him being our best at the moment, to be fair since the Quarter finals of the world cup Priestland had one great game, against Saints at Franklins Gardens where he took Pisi to Pieces, other than that he hasn't shown his best form.

I just don't want Wales to not progress because he is still around, he is not at his personal best and is unlikely to get back to it due to the stage he is at in his career.

We can't rely on Jones being our best flyhalf for long and we need to give other players time to establish their credentials.

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